Ren'Py Innocence or Money [S2 E2] [MarcialART]

[Prokopije]

i understand and i got off on a bit of a tangent, BUT i don't see how her being harassed by somebody but not actually doing anything with them means she no longer has standards, if she submitted to him without your input that would be another matter.

She is submitted without my input. Just because there is no penetration it doesn't mean scene is not sexual. There should be an option to run from the room as soon as he moves towards her, to hit him in the head with something, stab him with something or whatever. To defend herself when/if he was said to stop but he ignored.
Instead of that, dev decide that our protagonist is weakling who's not able to stand up for herself and she'll just let some abomination touch her.
Sure, it's his right, but that's the story I'm no longer interested in.
Thing is - I was lured into playing this based on dev's lies and that's what annoyed me - "her future will be in your hands!" "will she be a hardworking and honest girl" "or you will lead her to a dark path and find out how deep the rabbit hole goes" - none of that is truth, because there is ONLY ONE PATH you can go in this game.
Either fix the game to corresponds with "advertisement" or fix description to corresponds with product, so people are not mislead anymore.

 

[Deleted member 7661014]

Hi PickerLewd,

I think it works that way, I do not know, I never tried ^^ !

Best Regards.

What news has been given Saturday ??

 

[wildride69]

She is submitted without my input. Just because there is no penetration it doesn't mean scene is not sexual. There should be an option to run from the room as soon as he moves towards her, to hit him in the head with something, stab him with something or whatever. To defend herself when/if he was said to stop but he ignored.
Instead of that, dev decide that our protagonist is weakling who's not able to stand up for herself and she'll just let some abomination touch her.
Sure, it's his right, but that's the story I'm no longer interested in.
Thing is - I was lured into playing this based on dev's lies and that's what annoyed me - "her future will be in your hands!" "will she be a hardworking and honest girl" "or you will lead her to a dark path and find out how deep the rabbit hole goes" - none of that is truth, because there is ONLY ONE PATH you can go in this game.
Either fix the game to corresponds with "advertisement" or fix description to corresponds with product, so people are not mislead anymore.

Stories develop over time and the direction may change in a way you like or don't like. Did the developer LIE, nope the story just went somewhere you didn't like, which gives you a choice to have enjoyed your time with this tile and then move on, or wait a few more updates and see if it returns to a path you like.

 

[Prokopije]

Stories develop over time and the direction may change in a way you like or don't like. Did the developer LIE, nope the story just went somewhere you didn't like, which gives you a choice to have enjoyed your time with this tile and then move on, or wait a few more updates and see if it returns to a path you like.

That would be true if there was no "you will decide" part. I didn't decided anything, story went there without asking me (player). "It will depend entirely on your choices!" - that's direct quote from dev's website. And it's clearly false statement.
If dev started with one game plan and it the meantime he decided to switch to another(which is somewhat legit but not nice and fair thing to do), than should remove/edit description.
It's just luck that it's here on pirate site, so except being annoyed for broken expectations, it's not a big deal. But what if someone spend money to buy game from site/steam/patreon expecting for things to depend entirely on his choices and than discover it's not truth? Would dev refunded money? What's the other option? To sue over 50 bucks game? Everybody knows it's not going to happen. So, that's kind of fraud-ish behavior.
There's no returning to path I like, in it's current state it is ruined permanently, unless particular scene is made optional/removed. And any other eventual forced scenes after that point. Might do it myself after game is completed and put it here as some kind of mod, but since it's not the only flaw of this game, the jury is still undecided if it's worth effort. I mean, those dreadful unskippable "animations" and unnecessary sandbox are big no-no. Not sure if I'd made it through entire game because of those even if that "parlor incident" didn't happened.

 

[wildride69]

That would be true if there was no "you will decide" part. I didn't decided anything, story went there without asking me (player). "It will depend entirely on your choices!" - that's direct quote from dev's website. And it's clearly false statement.
If dev started with one game plan and it the meantime he decided to switch to another(which is somewhat legit but not nice and fair thing to do), than should remove/edit description.
It's just luck that it's here on pirate site, so except being annoyed for broken expectations, it's not a big deal. But what if someone spend money to buy game from site/steam/patreon expecting for things to depend entirely on his choices and than discover it's not truth? Would dev refunded money? What's the other option? To sue over 50 bucks game? Everybody knows it's not going to happen. So, that's kind of fraud-ish behavior.
There's no returning to path I like, in it's current state it is ruined permanently, unless particular scene is made optional/removed. And any other eventual forced scenes after that point. Might do it myself after game is completed and put it here as some kind of mod, but since it's not the only flaw of this game, the jury is still undecided if it's worth effort. I mean, those dreadful unskippable "animations" and unnecessary sandbox are big no-no. Not sure if I'd made it through entire game because of those even if that "parlor incident" didn't happened.

Then that comes down to you as an individual as to how you deal with the change in story direction.

What happens if you had of paid support to a title and they had a story direction changed... It's happened to me more than once, one title I supported for a year and the story direction started getting bleak and depressing. I voiced my concerned on SS and made a post in the thread but then I cut support and left the thread. I still have what I paid for so I don't feel cheated but the future of that story is not something I will continue paying for.

I move on and see what other devs are worthy of my support and following. I play titles to be surprised at the direction a story takes not to see every trope I think (hope) will take place sometimes the story direction is excellent and I like the title that much more.

One of my favorite titles on here is Jessica's Choices, not because I get exactly what I want but because the Developer always seems to have a surprise or twist up his sleeve to leave you guessing and wanting to know what happens next. (At least to me).

Innocence or Money, to me keeps getting better, I wish the updates were more frequent but I can't wait for the next release. I do hope they fix some of the uglier character models that are eww in my opinion but I will roll with the changes.

I wish you well, if I were you I would keep your eye on future updates and see if/when the story takes a turn to your liking.

 

[Yelow Submarine]

For me the game is very good as it is, I just think that Jennifer takes too long to fuck another man, I hope that in the next updates she will be naughtier! Speaking of which, when will the next update come out?

 

[xert13]

For me the game is very good as it is, I just think that Jennifer takes too long to fuck another man, I hope that in the next updates she will be naughtier! Speaking of which, when will the next update come out?

If you played the corruption route she has gotten nailed by three people already. What I want to see is her getting railed on all fours. It’s really odd that just about every other position is covered but that…

 

[Deleted member 7661014]

What news about S2Ep2 has been given on saturday ??

 

[Bigapee]

She is submitted without my input. Just because there is no penetration it doesn't mean scene is not sexual. There should be an option to run from the room as soon as he moves towards her, to hit him in the head with something, stab him with something or whatever. To defend herself when/if he was said to stop but he ignored.
Instead of that, dev decide that our protagonist is weakling who's not able to stand up for herself and she'll just let some abomination touch her.
Sure, it's his right, but that's the story I'm no longer interested in.
Thing is - I was lured into playing this based on dev's lies and that's what annoyed me - "her future will be in your hands!" "will she be a hardworking and honest girl" "or you will lead her to a dark path and find out how deep the rabbit hole goes" - none of that is truth, because there is ONLY ONE PATH you can go in this game.
Either fix the game to corresponds with "advertisement" or fix description to corresponds with product, so people are not mislead anymore.

while i do fully agree with you that there aren't many choices to be had in this game, i kind of think you're being unreasonable in thinking you'll have the option to choose literally everything that she does. considering that nothing actually happened to her in the scene it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that there was no choice given, sometimes story events have to happen before a choice can be made. we aren't making every single decision for Jen as her day unfolds after all, just the steps she'll take for money to which as i started saying earlier in our conversation if anything the corruption players were the ones who had their choice stolen from them in that moment as i think almost everybody going down that path would've allowed that fat bastard to plow her for the cash but that wasn't a choice given.

 

[Prokopije]

Then that comes down to you as an individual as to how you deal with the change in story direction.

What happens if you had of paid support to a title and they had a story direction changed... It's happened to me more than once, one title I supported for a year and the story direction started getting bleak and depressing. I voiced my concerned on SS and made a post in the thread but then I cut support and left the thread. I still have what I paid for so I don't feel cheated but the future of that story is not something I will continue paying for.

I move on and see what other devs are worthy of my support and following. I play titles to be surprised at the direction a story takes not to see every trope I think (hope) will take place sometimes the story direction is excellent and I like the title that much more.

One of my favorite titles on here is Jessica's Choices, not because I get exactly what I want but because the Developer always seems to have a surprise or twist up his sleeve to leave you guessing and wanting to know what happens next. (At least to me).

Innocence or Money, to me keeps getting better, I wish the updates were more frequent but I can't wait for the next release. I do hope they fix some of the uglier character models that are eww in my opinion but I will roll with the changes.

I wish you well, if I were you I would keep your eye on future updates and see if/when the story takes a turn to your liking.

This has nothing to do with how players "deal with the changes of the story" but what dev promised. Don't promise if you can't/won't deliver. There could be a description like "will she go here or there? play and find out", instead of "you will decide".
Look at it like this: I make advertisement
A - "Invest in my little factory and you will get a juice" - people will be like, what kind of juice? I might like it, I might not, but what the heck I'll risk it and invest. In the end, whichever kind of juice you get, you have no right to complain.
B - "Invest in my little factory and you will get orange juice" - and then later I say "nah, I changed my mind, you'll all get strawberry juice."
Reactions will be: "I like strawberry juice as well, not a big deal", but for those "Wtf, I don't like strawberry juice, give me orange juice you promised", "omg I'm allergic to strawberries, I can't drink this" etc, I can't "dismiss" them by saying deal with the changes. Because they would never invested in my factory if they knew it's going to be strawberry juice.
So, if someone invested into A type of game, then I fully agree with you. Though luck.
But if someone invested into B type of game, then no. It is a fraud. Morally and legally.

while i do fully agree with you that there aren't many choices to be had in this game, i kind of think you're being unreasonable in thinking you'll have the option to choose literally everything that she does. considering that nothing actually happened to her in the scene it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that there was no choice given, sometimes story events have to happen before a choice can be made. we aren't making every single decision for Jen as her day unfolds after all, just the steps she'll take for money to which as i started saying earlier in our conversation if anything the corruption players were the ones who had their choice stolen from them in that moment as i think almost everybody going down that path would've allowed that fat bastard to plow her for the cash but that wasn't a choice given.

Not literally every decision, just those related to sexual content and directions. And we can't harassment and/or attempted rape label as "nothing actually happened". It is a big deal and there should be a choice as promised.

 

[Deleted member 7661014]

What news about S2Ep2 has been given on saturday ??

HikBenAkk

 

[HikBenAkk]

That would be true if there was no "you will decide" part. I didn't decided anything, story went there without asking me (player). "It will depend entirely on your choices!" - that's direct quote from dev's website. And it's clearly false statement.
If dev started with one game plan and it the meantime he decided to switch to another(which is somewhat legit but not nice and fair thing to do), than should remove/edit description.
It's just luck that it's here on pirate site, so except being annoyed for broken expectations, it's not a big deal. But what if someone spend money to buy game from site/steam/patreon expecting for things to depend entirely on his choices and than discover it's not truth? Would dev refunded money? What's the other option? To sue over 50 bucks game? Everybody knows it's not going to happen. So, that's kind of fraud-ish behavior.
There's no returning to path I like, in it's current state it is ruined permanently, unless particular scene is made optional/removed. And any other eventual forced scenes after that point. Might do it myself after game is completed and put it here as some kind of mod, but since it's not the only flaw of this game, the jury is still undecided if it's worth effort. I mean, those dreadful unskippable "animations" and unnecessary sandbox are big no-no. Not sure if I'd made it through entire game because of those even if that "parlor incident" didn't happened.

Hi Prokopije ,

I disagree, wildride69 is right here.

Here is the quote from the dev's web site.


It seems I do not understand it the same way you do : imho, the dev says here the choices players do is between the innocence route and the corruption route... The dev neither said nor implied there that players can have ALL the possibilities they can imagine.

When the dev says "It will depend entirely on your choices!", it is true : it depends on the players to choose between innocence or money (corruption). YOU decided to not have MC be involved with the coffee shop owner and YOU may have decided to not involve MC with her landlord.
Here you are overthinking what the dev said, imho. Hence, it is not false statement as well.

The way I understand what you want is a kind of middle ground : no coffee shop owner, no landlord but MC still to have sexual intercourses... For exemple, MC to be hit on by some good looking guys her age and slowly grow the idea to dump her current bf and get another one fullfiling her needs.
Not bad...
BUT
It is not in the game and so far, the dev NEVER implied it can be : read again what he wrote... he spoke about

moral correct way of living

or

corrupt to the bone

(to quote him).
And corrupt to the bone seems to mean for the dev that MC to be aroused by the coffee shop owner hitting on her (from the beginning of the game) while she is clearly sexually frustrated because her BF does not want to have sex with her. She also seems to not be used to be hit on her and she has low self-confidence and low self-esteem which makes her an easy prey for pervy guys like the coffee shop owner and her landlord. She is not falling into depravity because of the 20 bucks she can earn, she is aroused by the situations the coffee shop owner and her landlord put her in : she finally met guys showing desire towards her.

I also want to make something clear : as a dev myself, I can tell you it is delusional to expect to have all routes possibles in such games as well as too many specific ones... Even the biggest game studio making the most complex AAA RPGs nowadays is unable to achieve that... Because it is too complex when you have in mind that the dev team main concern is too keep the story cohesive.
They tried to give such freedom by making open worlds game... the result is not as good as players can expect it to be... Take a look here :

You must be registered to see the links

In other words, devs are not magicians : they better stick on two to four routes they like and conduct well rather than trying to satisfy all wishes and finally progressing on none

Best Regards.

 

[HikBenAkk]

HikBenAkk

Hi Singham729,

You really are eager to have news ^^!

On saturday, some pics from photshoot place and MC kissing her landlord in a car... The dev also said he is working on klast event of the update which seems to be a big one.

On Sunday, some pics from the night club in which we see MC, her landlord and the landlord best friend introduced in first season he was hanging out with. The labndlord introduced MC to him.

Best Regards.

 

[Deleted member 7661014]

Is there any estimated date for the release ??

 

[HikBenAkk]

Is there any estimated date for the release ??

The dev said that on that matter Saturday :

However, I can't guarantee a December release, because the way I work, I prefer to lose the possibility that December offers me as a developer in exchange of being able to make this last scene something great. I don't plan to decrease the number of cameras, renders or quality, for me that would be a big mistake, in fact, I'm doing the opposite, including new ideas and functionalities in this last scene. You know what is the quality standard I have with the game and I don't plan to lower it even if it means losing the opportunity to release the update in December.

This doesn't mean that it's 100% sure that I won't release it in December, it's difficult but not impossible.

The coding part seems to be complex (he said it)

 

[Prokopije]

When the dev says "It will depend entirely on your choices!", it is true : it depends on the players to choose between innocence or money (corruption). YOU decided to not have MC be involved with the coffee shop owner and YOU may have decided to not involve MC with her landlord.
Here you are overthinking what the dev said, imho. Hence, it is not false statement as well.

It is false statement. Where is such option for massage parlor? That's where we don't have choice not to involve MC into sexual activities(groping and intimate touching be considered as such. as they are. in law.). Player CAN NOT DECIDE against it. No matter if we are on innocence or corruption path. It does not depend on our choices.
And, it is not delusional to see "it will depend entirely on your choices" as - it applies to sexual content. It might be delusional if we try to apply it as complete general freedom, ie which jobs she will accept, what to eat for breakfast, if she will buy clothes or not etc. That would create countless possible routes and coding mess. So yes, we can accept she being "forced" into taking X job and not count it as broken promise, but we have to if that job involves involuntary sexual actions. Because providing choice to decline massage parlor scene would not create additional paths.
For those two you mentioned, dev delivered his promise. And not just for them, we can also decline girls throwing at MC, but he failed to deliver it when it comes to massage parlor. Players can not decline that dude.
Btw, other argument doesn't stand, don't need to involve big studios, because there are a lot of games on this site which have all MC sexual content optional, even more complex games than this one, being made by amateurs and one-man teams. It is possible, it's just if they want or not.

 

[BlundellBanter75]

Hi Singham729,

You really are eager to have news ^^!

On saturday, some pics from photshoot place and MC kissing her landlord in a car... The dev also said he is working on klast event of the update which seems to be a big one.

On Sunday, some pics from the night club in which we see MC, her landlord and the landlord best friend introduced in first season he was hanging out with. The labndlord introduced MC to him.

Best Regards.

Thanks for the info, would you be so kind as to share some of the screenshots? The car and photoshoot ones sound very appealing.

 

[HikBenAkk]

It is false statement. Where is such option for massage parlor? That's where we don't have choice not to involve MC into sexual activities(groping and intimate touching be considered as such. as they are. in law.). Player CAN NOT DECIDE against it. No matter if we are on innocence or corruption path. It does not depend on our choices.
And, it is not delusional to see "it will depend entirely on your choices" as - it applies to sexual content. It might be delusional if we try to apply it as complete general freedom, ie which jobs she will accept, what to eat for breakfast, if she will buy clothes or not etc. That would create countless possible routes and coding mess. So yes, we can accept she being "forced" into taking X job and not count it as broken promise, but we have to if that job involves involuntary sexual actions. Because providing choice to decline massage parlor scene would not create additional paths.
For those two you mentioned, dev delivered his promise. And not just for them, we can also decline girls throwing at MC, but he failed to deliver it when it comes to massage parlor. Players can not decline that dude.

Nope... Not false statement...

The most important is to be sure to understand what the dev wanted to say... Not make assumptions about it and take them as true.
The choice we can enterily make (it means throughout the game) is to keep MC innocent if we want... Nothing more. I mean he did not promise more than that : read again what he wrote in the screenshot I posted above.
That is what the dev wanted to say. I know that because I asked him about that matter a few weeks after I subscribed three years ago in order to understand how the game will work.
That is why I said you are overthinking what he wrote : any other interpretation is just false.

If I am not mistaken (I did not play innocent), players that want to keep MC innocent can do it : no sexual content implying loss of innocence is forced.

I am not sure I understand your complaint about the massage center : the ugly guy was harrassing MC and she did not like it, therefore it makes sense to not have choices to make about that sexual content (I do not remember entirely if she loses innocence though, I think she did not).
Is that what you are referring to ?
And something I spoke about a while ago that will be in next update : the dev made a feature about the content in massage center : a menu in which players can decide how far MC goes with her customers. Again it makes sense : she can work there while staying innocent if players want it so.

Btw, other argument doesn't stand, don't need to involve big studios, because there are a lot of games on this site which have all MC sexual content optional, even more complex games than this one, being made by amateurs and one-man teams. It is possible, it's just if they want or not.

Really ? A lot of VNs in which you have a girl/woman having stats about her growing lust to help the devs follow what she is ready to do or not to be able to have a cohesive story and all being optional ? You got me curious about them... Please give me names...

 

[HikBenAkk]

Thanks for the info, would you be so kind as to share some of the screenshots? The car and photoshoot ones sound very appealing.

Hi BlundellBanter75,

Sorry, I never leak anything from the devs I support.

Best Regards.

 

[wildride69]

Nope... Not false statement...

The most important is to be sure to understand what the dev wanted to say... Not make assumptions about it and take them as true.
The choice we can enterily make (it means throughout the game) is to keep MC innocent if we want... Nothing more. I mean he did not promise more than that : read again what he wrote in the screenshot I posted above.
That is what the dev wanted to say. I know that because I asked him about that matter a few weeks after I subscribed three years ago in order to understand how the game will work.
That is why I said you are overthinking what he wrote : any other interpretation is just false.

If I am not mistaken (I did not play innocent), players that want to keep MC innocent can do it : no sexual content implying loss of innocence is forced.

I am not sure I understand your complaint about the massage center : the ugly guy was harrassing MC and she did not like it, therefore it makes sense to not have choices to make about that sexual content (I do not remember entirely if she loses innocence though, I think she did not).
Is that what you are referring to ?
And something I spoke about a while ago that will be in next update : the dev made a feature about the content in massage center : a menu in which players can decide how far MC goes with her customers. Again it makes sense : she can work there while staying innocent if players want it so.


Really ? A lot of VNs in which you have a girl/woman having stats about her growing lust to help the devs follow what she is ready to do or not to be able to have a cohesive story and all being optional ? You got me curious about them... Please give me names...

You're a better man than me I gave up, their is know reasoning to be done here when people are determined to be mad about nothing, but I salute your efforts God Speed and Good Luck with this one!