Ren'Py Innocence or Money [S2 E2] [MarcialART]

3.60 star(s) 86 Votes
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HikBenAkk

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Jan 17, 2021
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Prokopije said:
About mentioned games, if we like them or not because of this or that reason, bad drawing, I get it, I couldn't stand Summertime Saga because art is awful to my taste, despite being popular game, but that's not relevant. They're example that it is possible to make "everything is optional" game with multiple routes etc.
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Instead of highlighting something that irrelevant, better to react to what I said about Ellie (the daughter) from AWAM : I did not had all the choices I wanted for her in my short playthrough, hence the "all the choices" you claim for this game is not true.

And about GGGB, it must be easy to find an option not supported by the game : for example, if MC goes in a night club, drinks too much and is fucked at the end... Just wanting one of the random guys in background (that are NPCs just here to fill the space) instead of the male protagonists that are involved with her is enough to prove "all" choices you speak about are not supported.

Anyway, I just want to highlight that making a game (especially a VN) means to make choices... Making choices means discard others. Period.

Prokopije said:
Just because someone is game developer, it doesn't mean he's "right" by default and that his visions and descriptions are more "legitimate" than those of "common players". I can make a game where I'll refer to blue color as red, but it wont change fact it's blue color. It wont make it "right" just because I'm the dev. Same way here. If you write "it will depend entirely on your choices" - it has only one true meaning. Same way some people see mommy and daddy having sex as NTR, I mean, it's ok it's their right, but it's not NTR. Because there is clear definition of it. Everything else is personal, more or less biased misinterpretation.
And that's what dev took from MC and players in that scene - a choice. Promised choice.
There were ways of "showing how dangerous city is" without breaking that promise. As I gave example in previous post. It is enough for rabid dog just to try to attack you, it doesn't need to bite you in order for you to realize "how dangerous it is".
But... since, clearly, none of us won't change opinion of another one, let's agree to disagree and move on instead of spinning into circles and "spamming" thread by repeating same things.
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You do not understand what I said (I may explain poorly).
It is not a matter to be "right by default". I rather meant your way to see Innocence is just A way to see it, not THE ONE AND ONLY way to see it. The dev sees it as a way to measure MC's temptation to act naughtily and loss of faith towards her bf.
Therefore, the event with the ugly guy in massage center is NOT a loss of innocence : if she had enjoyed being groped by this guy (and for example asked for more to him), it would have been a loss of innocence worth it a choice put to players.
Look closer... So far, the dev built the events involving MC that way : EACH time MC DECIDES to act naughtily, a choice is put to players. That is the way I understand the dev's quote :
MarcialART said:
The MC is Jennifer, you will take decisions for her. Would you take her by a moral way of living or will you corrupt her to the bone and see how deep the rabbit hole goes ? It will depend enterily on your choices.
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The "It" underlined in dev's quote refers to when MC has to make a choice between good or bad... Not all sexual content she is involved in, like the ugly guy. And the way the game works, all events so far in which she had to make such a choice was put to players : ALL of them ("entirely").
That's why I can say the way, I explained it to you, must be the right way : the game works that way... the dev did not lied.

Another example : The dev said he will never put rape in his game because of Patreon rules (and he does not like such content) : in the same way, if MC ever were raped (sex against her will, no arousal, only pain) it is NOT a loss of Innocence according to the dev's definition of it.

You are right on one point : if, with that, you at least still do not get ((I do not ask to agree) what I was trying to make you understand from my last posts to you, better to stop it there...
 
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HikBenAkk said:
Instead of highlighting something that irrelevant, better to react to what I said about Ellie (the daughter) : I did not had all the choices I wanted for her in my short playthrough, hence the "all the choices" you claim for this game is not true.

And about GGGB, it must be easy to find a choice not supported by the game : for example, if MC goes in a night club, drinks too much and is fucked at the end... Just wanting one of the random guys in background (that are NPCs just here to fill the space) instead of the male protagonists is enough to prove "all" choices you sepak about are not supported.

Anyway, I just want to highlight that making a game (especially a VN) means to make choices... Making choices means discard others. Period.



You do not understand what I said (I may explain poorly).
It is not a matter to be "right by default". I rather meant your way to see Innocence is just A way to see it, not THE ONE AND ONLY way to see it. The dev sees it as a way to measure MC's temptation to act naughtily and loss of faith towards her bf.
Therefore, the event with the ugly guy in massage center is NOT a loss of innocence : if she had enjoyed being groped by this guy (and for example asked for more to him), it would have been a loss of innocence worth it a choice put to players.
Look closer... So far, the dev built the events involving MC that way : EACH time MC DECIDES to act naughtily, a choice is put to players. That is the way I understand the dev's quote :

The "It" underlined in dev's quote refers to when MC has to make a choice between good or bad... Not all sexual content she is involved in, like the ugly guy. And the way the game works, all events so far in which she had to make such a choice was put to players : ALL of them ("entirely").
That's why I can say the way I explained it to you must be the right way : the game works that way... the dev did not lied.

Another example : The dev said he will never put rape in his game because of Patreon rules (and he does not like such content) : in the same way, if MC ever were raped (sex against her will, no arousal, only pain) it is NOT a loss of Innocence according to the dev's definition of it.

You are right on one point : if, with that, you at least still do not get ((I do not ask to agree) what I was trying to make you understand from my last posts to you, better to stop it there...
Click to expand...
What update has been given by dev this weekend ??
 
H

HikBenAkk

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Jan 17, 2021
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361
Singham729 said:
HikBenAkk can u tell what photos has been uploaded on sat and sun ??
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More photos from the nightclub.

The dev also posted that in comments section :
MarcialART said:
The last scene of S2E2 is around 45%, and it's a big scene with a lot of animations, so I don't think it's possible to release it in 2024 because, in a little more than a week, the year is over. Instead of doing a rushed release to try to take advantage of the good time that December is for a developer, I prefer to lose sales but to be able to develop this scene in detail and without cutting anything for the simple rush of releasing the update in December.
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I agree with PickerLewd, the new features in massage center must have taken time to be made.
 
Prokopije

Prokopije

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HikBenAkk said:
Instead of highlighting something that irrelevant, better to react to what I said about Ellie (the daughter) from AWAM : I did not had all the choices I wanted for her in my short playthrough, hence the "all the choices" you claim for this game is not true.

And about GGGB, it must be easy to find an option not supported by the game : for example, if MC goes in a night club, drinks too much and is fucked at the end... Just wanting one of the random guys in background (that are NPCs just here to fill the space) instead of the male protagonists that are involved with her is enough to prove "all" choices you speak about are not supported.

Anyway, I just want to highlight that making a game (especially a VN) means to make choices... Making choices means discard others. Period.



You do not understand what I said (I may explain poorly).
It is not a matter to be "right by default". I rather meant your way to see Innocence is just A way to see it, not THE ONE AND ONLY way to see it. The dev sees it as a way to measure MC's temptation to act naughtily and loss of faith towards her bf.
Therefore, the event with the ugly guy in massage center is NOT a loss of innocence : if she had enjoyed being groped by this guy (and for example asked for more to him), it would have been a loss of innocence worth it a choice put to players.
Look closer... So far, the dev built the events involving MC that way : EACH time MC DECIDES to act naughtily, a choice is put to players. That is the way I understand the dev's quote :

The "It" underlined in dev's quote refers to when MC has to make a choice between good or bad... Not all sexual content she is involved in, like the ugly guy. And the way the game works, all events so far in which she had to make such a choice was put to players : ALL of them ("entirely").
That's why I can say the way, I explained it to you, must be the right way : the game works that way... the dev did not lied.

Another example : The dev said he will never put rape in his game because of Patreon rules (and he does not like such content) : in the same way, if MC ever were raped (sex against her will, no arousal, only pain) it is NOT a loss of Innocence according to the dev's definition of it.

You are right on one point : if, with that, you at least still do not get ((I do not ask to agree) what I was trying to make you understand from my last posts to you, better to stop it there...
Click to expand...
Oh, dear, here we go again... :rolleyes:
All choices you wanted? What the heck? And yet he speaks about "do not understand"... lol, rofl & lmao. Did you had any forced sex content involving MC in any of those games? No. That's what were talked about. About choices to avoid any sexual content involving MC, not about choices we want.

As for rest of recycled, failed attempt to defend lying dev... You and your spins are debunked earlier, won't repeat it again. You can try to spin sexual attack into not being sexual content - it is sexual content. We do not have choice to avoid it. Not reacting is BAD, so MC is forced into BAD. To try to draw it for you, it is not up to player's choice, because from there players are forced to play MC who's marked as "desecrated by the pig boar". End of discussion.
Since you mentioned "dev will not put rape" - but he will put attempt of a rape (what boar scene in massage parlor is). It is not "arousal" or anything. It is act of sexual violence against MC's will. Since you also mentioned Patreon, it would be funny to see what they would think about that particular scene... Would they nuke dev's account? Since I'm not one of those to go around and report other people, I guess we'll never know...
 
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cyberSpacePirat

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Apr 29, 2018
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Prokopije said:
Since you mentioned "dev will not put rape" - but he will put attempt of a rape (what boar scene in massage parlor is). It is not "arousal" or anything. It is act of sexual violence against MC's will.
Click to expand...
Maybe the scene in the massage center is not rape but an attempt to rape (since it was stopped). But the scene in Cassandra's flat is definitely a rape, since MC was drugged and fucked without her consent.
I'm playing the corruption route so it's not a problem.
 
H

HikBenAkk

Member
Jan 17, 2021
248
361
Prokopije said:
Oh, dear, here we go again... :rolleyes:
All choices you wanted? What the heck? And yet he speaks about "do not understand"... lol, rofl & lmao. Did you had any forced sex content involving MC in any of those games? No. That's what were talked about. About choices to avoid any sexual content involving MC, not about choices we want.

As for rest of recycled, failed attempt to defend lying dev... You and your spins are debunked earlier, won't repeat it again. You can try to spin sexual attack into not being sexual content - it is sexual content. We do not have choice to avoid it. Not reacting is BAD, so MC is forced into BAD. To try to draw it for you, it is not up to player's choice, because from there players are forced to play MC who's marked as "desecrated by the pig boar". End of discussion.
Since you mentioned "dev will not put rape" - but he will put attempt of a rape (what boar scene in massage parlor is). It is not "arousal" or anything. It is act of sexual violence against MC's will. Since you also mentioned Patreon, it would be funny to see what they would think about that particular scene... Would they nuke dev's account? Since I'm not one of those to go around and report other people, I guess we'll never know...
Click to expand...
I never said the content about the ugly guy in massage center was not sexual in nature, I just said it is NOT a loss of Innocence.

If this game should be reported, I guess you can also include 90% of the games down here tagged in corruption with a Patreon page: ridiculous...

Reporting this game would just be a pathetic attempt to harm the dev from people who have nothing better to do in their life and you find that "funny" ? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Whether devs make content I like or not, I wish them the best and success when I have the feeling they do their best.

I think we have nothing more to say to each other.
 
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HikBenAkk

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Jan 17, 2021
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cyberSpacePirat said:
Maybe the scene in the massage center is not rape but an attempt to rape (since it was stopped). But the scene in Cassandra's flat is definitely a rape, since MC was drugged and fucked without her consent.
I'm playing the corruption route so it's not a problem.
Click to expand...
Interesting.

I see the massage center as harrassement and not (yet) a attempt of rape

I do not see that content (MC high because of the pill) to be without her consent. The pill was defined to reveal inner true color. MC's corruption made her lustful and this was just breaking her inhibitions : the situation was arousing her and she gave up to her feelings.
 
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Prokopije

Prokopije

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cyberSpacePirat said:
Maybe the scene in the massage center is not rape but an attempt to rape (since it was stopped). But the scene in Cassandra's flat is definitely a rape, since MC was drugged and fucked without her consent.
I'm playing the corruption route so it's not a problem.
Click to expand...
Yes, first one is attempted rape. At least by the laws of my country. Some countries might define it as harrassement, but for sure it is act of sexual violence by laws of any of 200something countries in the world. Diminishing it by portraying it as "arousement" or what not is, to say at least, malicious.

HikBenAkk said:
Interesting.

I see the massage center as harrassement and not (yet) a attempt of rape

I do not see that content (MC high because of the pill) to be without her consent. The pill was defined to reveal inner true color. MC's corruption made her lustful and this was just breaking her inhibitions : the situation was arousing her and she gave up to her feelings.
Click to expand...
That Cassandra flat scene, mentioned in both posts, I did not saw, I guess I quit game before it.
"MC high because of pill" - just out of curiosity, did dev provided choice for player to chose if MC is going to take the pill or not?

"Funny", not in term of bursting into laughs, but as "curious", "interesting", as in "funny, that you said that I just saw, bla bla bla"? English not my first language, so if I was mistaken about potential meaning, than replace it with one of other word suggested above.
 
H

HikBenAkk

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Jan 17, 2021
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Prokopije said:
Yes, first one is attempted rape. At least by the laws of my country. Some countries might define it as harrassement, but for sure it is act of sexual violence by laws of any of 200something countries in the world. Diminishing it by portraying it as "arousement" or what not is, to say at least, malicious.

That Cassandra flat scene, mentioned in both posts, I did not saw, I guess I quit game before it.
"MC high because of pill" - just out of curiosity, did dev provided choice for player to chose if MC is going to take the pill or not?
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This scene is at beginning of season 2, episode 1.
No choice during it, it resumes a choice MC made at the end of season 1 with her landlord (I do not spoil).
In other words, see it as the continuation and end of this event from season 1 (with landlord)

Prokopije said:
"Funny", not in term of bursting into laughs, but as "curious", "interesting", as in "funny, that you said that I just saw, bla bla bla"? English not my first language, so if I was mistaken about potential meaning, than replace it with one of other word suggested above.
Click to expand...
Ok, I am also not a native english speaker (french is for me), I misunderstood.
 
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HikBenAkk

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Prokopije said:
[...] Diminishing it by portraying it as "arousement" or what not is, to say at least, malicious.
Click to expand...
Malicious or not, it is defined like that in many corruption games... As long as the girl "likes" what is done to her and is aroused by it, it means consent from her. Like girls who are attracted by bad guys because they are "bad" (they add spice in relationship and thrill).

I do not justify it IRL (I will never support any "corruption" IRL)... Just in games...
 
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3.60 star(s) 86 Votes