VN Ren'Py It's Just A Game [v0.1.1] [DigiDec]

[Axelfire]

Question for the class:

How comfortable/familiar/concerned are you with how the simulations work in the story? I'm not interested in making the functionality too detailed but I also want to make sure that the audience has a good enough feel for how they work that they don't get thrown out of immersion, or feel like I'm doing too much hand wavy bullshit. So I'm going to bullet point out some info that is of varying degrees of relevance and I'd love to hear if it all jives with your understanding.

• While in the simulation the user doesn't have access to their real memories
• Once the simulation is over the user remembers everything that happened in the sim
• Qoniv is the company that ultimately controls/operates the system the sims run on
• Individual sims are kind of like video games, there are different genres and series, etc.
• You access the sim by using a headset that syncs with a neural implant*

I'm writing out some of the scenes right now and I'm unsure if/how much I need to highlight any of these points.

There's a statistic that I have to fact-check every time I see about how 54% of adult Americans read at or below a 6th-grade level, which for reference is Harry Potter/Nancy Drew/Goosebumps. I think it's pretty safe to assume that people who play games like this one are reading at a much higher level than that but I also think most games like this one are very straightforward and blunt with the writing. Also, English might not be a player's first language which could complicate things a little.

I've mostly been thinking about Ness and some of the reactions to her/the MC's situation. I think many of the people who played the game so far took everything Ness said at complete face value, which has strongly impacted their impressions of her, the story, and where it is heading. Now obviously there's not a lot of game out yet so there's still plenty of time for people to adjust expectations and having some surprises and twists in the story is fun. But I also don't want the audience to feel that the surprises/twists are unearned, arbitrary, or contrived. I don't think we'll be able to determine if I'm doing it right for another update or two but any early thoughts/comments would be appreciated.

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*I originally was going to have the characters control basically every electronic device with the implant but it ended up looking real dumb. Imagine if every time someone was fiddling with their phone or using a computer I had just used an image of them staring off into space.

not to eco the awnser of a previous user, but either assume us to be retarded or verry dumb, it's not uncommon for player to play games with the skip unsees dialogue option in the frist time, so in many ways the yuo are in an uphill battle people not getting stuff from even the most vaunted story centric games is a common occurance.

that said I have 2 recommendations: 1: copy eternum, it's another game on the site, quite high-rated too, and it has a similar concept of "virtual worlds" tough it goes in a radically diferent direction, in short what they to is they make jumping into the simulation a bit of fanfare, with specialist suits and the works, so giving jumping into the sims a bit lead up would help.

2: boot up sequence, basicaly when ever the mc/character goes in to a sim, have a sort of systems check, point out the company owns the sims, the nature of the sim and so on and so forth, this could be done at least once with every character to introduce the player to say the moms sim, or if done in a very subtle and quick manner, every time the mc joins their sim ( the absence of this boot-up sequence could later be used to enphasize the blurring of the lines with the sim and reality).

 

[Canto Forte]

This game is fun and it promotes some great themes looking to disconcert players from reality. In this perspective, it is a good game and it has good rollercoaster rides in there: where we players get swept off of our feet and loose our bearings.

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[Axelfire]

also a thing that needs to be mentioned, is that this game is recent and short, most players wont be verry invested in a game they perceive will be abandoned (the comon fate of all, 0.1 games in this site) so the longer the game goes onw, the bigger the version number and higher quntity of changelogs, the player hoping in the game will come with different expectations, in otherwords, the more people feel there is something to be invested in, the more they will be invested. the most extreme example of this being superhuman, a game whose thread has been repeatedly purged due to run-away theorycrafting on the lore of the game. so high level engagement is possible, it just takes time and effort.

 

[DigiDec]

not to eco the awnser of a previous user, but either assume us to be retarded or verry dumb, it's not uncommon for player to play games with the skip unsees dialogue option in the frist time, so in many ways the yuo are in an uphill battle people not getting stuff from even the most vaunted story centric games is a common occurance.

that said I have 2 recommendations: 1: copy eternum, it's another game on the site, quite high-rated too, and it has a similar concept of "virtual worlds" tough it goes in a radically diferent direction, in short what they to is they make jumping into the simulation a bit of fanfare, with specialist suits and the works, so giving jumping into the sims a bit lead up would help.

2: boot up sequence, basicaly when ever the mc/character goes in to a sim, have a sort of systems check, point out the company owns the sims, the nature of the sim and so on and so forth, this could be done at least once with every character to introduce the player to say the moms sim, or if done in a very subtle and quick manner, every time the mc joins their sim ( the absence of this boot-up sequence could later be used to enphasize the blurring of the lines with the sim and reality).

Who amongst us has not, on occasion, skipped through over half a game just to get to the good bits. I know I've been guilty of it a few times at least. Sometimes you want to see if the juice is worth the squeeze before reading an intricately written world building essay. There's a fine line to walk between keeping your players in the dark too much and information overload. Especially, as you point out in your next comment, with how many games only survive 1 or 2 updates before being abandoned. I figure I have to make it to at least 0.4 before I start making any major judgements about how this game is doing.

I gave a quick look at Eternum to see what you meant. You're absolutely right about similar concepts/different directions, at least as best as I could tell after skipping most of the dialogue to get to the VR bit. I don't want to add additional hardware for the users but I will give some thought to the bootup sequence idea. I am actually trying to avoid major visual signifiers because of where the game is going. I don't want to set something up just to throw it out and lead to further confusion.

This game is fun and it promotes some great themes looking to disconcert players from reality. In this perspective, it is a good game and it has good rollercoaster rides in there: where we players get swept off of our feet and loose our bearings.

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I'm glad I could clear things up some. I think you would've figured it all out in the next update when you start to see/interact with some of these characters more, but I didn't want to tell you to wait-and-see and have you feel like I was just stringing you along. I just mentioned in my response to the other commenter that I'm going to give some thought to some kind of obvious visual transition into the sims and I think there's a scene I'm working on right now with Qai and the Mc that I could turn into a little bit of a data dump.

One thing to note though is that there's going to be way more content taking place in the real world than in the sims. We've got probably 3 trips into the sims for Nat/Mol/Sara each and 1 or 2 other trips involving different characters. Those numbers are subject to change if the pacing starts to feel off but it should give you an idea of how much planned content they'll cover. I mostly just need the players to get a feel for some of the ground rules so they don't think I'm making everything* up as I go along when things start to change.

Thanks again for the feedback, everyone. The previous question is still open if anyone else has input. In the meantime here's another render.

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*99% is technically not everything

 

[Raksha17]

• While in the simulation the user doesn't have access to their real memories
• Once the simulation is over the user remembers everything that happened in the sim
• Qoniv is the company that ultimately controls/operates the system the sims run on
• Individual sims are kind of like video games, there are different genres and series, etc.
• You access the sim by using a headset that syncs with a neural implant*

Let's label them 1 - 5 for simplicity.

Regarding 2-4:
Those felt obvious to me.

Regarding 5:
While not blatantly obvious there must be more than the headset to it as people are shown to be unresponsive while in a sim.

Regarding 1:
As of now it also seems to be handled inconsistently by the sims system.
The first time he spontaneously enters his GF's Sim he recognizes her and vice versa.The GF uses his name to address him in the situation so the sim reverts to a state before that point of a "real" memory flooding in. But the first meeting with Qai does not once his memory of the AI (or all his real ones) become present to the MC.

On the "technical" side:
This also feels strange to me as a concept in general. How are "real" memories kept seperate from the sim ones because (2) states you remember once out of the sim? I assume your intent is to put that responsibility onto the implant that is so far implied but not explicitly mentioned. Being under that assumption still leaves the question are memories of different sims seperate sets or are they all available. The latter seems to be implied as the transfer into his GF's sim did not make the MC forget about Qai if the memory sets were different he should not know anybody present as a different sets has to be loaded/available based on sim. The problem with that would be that in the sims you could infer that you are in a sims because you have access to multiple sims memories (assuming you entered a least two different ones). Given him entering the sim was different than normal but some kind of communication with the sever has to occour and one would "hope" the system would "make sure" the player has the correct memories loaded.

It also presents the complication of the MC being supposed to experiment stuff in other's sims but would not know anything about that once he entered a different persons sim because it is part of his "real" memories.

 

[gregers]

Question for the class:

How comfortable/familiar/concerned are you with how the simulations work in the story? I'm not interested in making the functionality too detailed but I also want to make sure that the audience has a good enough feel for how they work that they don't get thrown out of immersion, or feel like I'm doing too much hand wavy bullshit. So I'm going to bullet point out some info that is of varying degrees of relevance and I'd love to hear if it all jives with your understanding.

• While in the simulation the user doesn't have access to their real memories
• Once the simulation is over the user remembers everything that happened in the sim
• Qoniv is the company that ultimately controls/operates the system the sims run on
• Individual sims are kind of like video games, there are different genres and series, etc.
• You access the sim by using a headset that syncs with a neural implant*

I'm writing out some of the scenes right now and I'm unsure if/how much I need to highlight any of these points.

Haven't played in a while, but from memory:

(1), (2) and (4) seemed reasonably clear. Bullet (1) was made clearer with the reworked intro, but it might be good to have the point come up 'naturally' in some conversation or other in the next update. Possibly (2) as well. (4) was clear from the three very distinct sims conforming to video game clichés.

(3) seemed likely from context without the exact ownership and operation being made overly explicit. We certainly see Qoniv having a large part in distributing and controlling the sims, but you have room to finesse the finer detail down the line if it becomes relevant.

I think (5) came up once or twice, at least with some mentions of an implant, but could be clearer.

I'm not consumed with desire to learn more, but imagine some of the details will become important as the story progresses. Fudging the stuff that isn't key to the story is fine.

EDIT: Oh, but if (2) was the absolute rule, shouldn't Nat remember the MC and Qai crashing her sim? It's currently just written off as "she's forgotten or believes it was a dream."

I think many of the people who played the game so far took everything Ness said at complete face value, which has strongly impacted their impressions of her, the story, and where it is heading.

Maybe, but that's all we as players have to judge her on so far. There's no indication that she's anything other than her first impression.

This is not (necessarily) a bad thing. It's fine to revise an opinion as we get to know her better. Just keep in mind that you as the dev/writer know the characters much more fully than we do: Ness may become the fan favourite by chapter 8, but all we as players know is what we've seen of her in 0.1.1. This is only a problem if the initial impression is so poor it turns the player away from her completely so any later 'redemption' never gets a chance.

 

[DigiDec]

Let's label them 1 - 5 for simplicity.

Regarding 2-4:
Those felt obvious to me.

Regarding 5:
While not blatantly obvious there must be more than the headset to it as people are shown to be unresponsive while in a sim.

Regarding 1:
As of now it also seems to be handled inconsistently by the sims system.
The first time he spontaneously enters his GF's Sim he recognizes her and vice versa.The GF uses his name to address him in the situation so the sim reverts to a state before that point of a "real" memory flooding in. But the first meeting with Qai does not once his memory of the AI (or all his real ones) become present to the MC.

On the "technical" side:
This also feels strange to me as a concept in general. How are "real" memories kept seperate from the sim ones because (2) states you remember once out of the sim? I assume your intent is to put that responsibility onto the implant that is so far implied but not explicitly mentioned. Being under that assumption still leaves the question are memories of different sims seperate sets or are they all available. The latter seems to be implied as the transfer into his GF's sim did not make the MC forget about Qai if the memory sets were different he should not know anybody present as a different sets has to be loaded/available based on sim. The problem with that would be that in the sims you could infer that you are in a sims because you have access to multiple sims memories (assuming you entered a least two different ones). Given him entering the sim was different than normal but some kind of communication with the sever has to occour and one would "hope" the system would "make sure" the player has the correct memories loaded.

It also presents the complication of the MC being supposed to experiment stuff in other's sims but would not know anything about that once he entered a different persons sim because it is part of his "real" memories.

It is only referenced a couple of times in the text of the game but aside from allowing the MC to share a sim with someone Qai is also preventing the sim from suppressing his real memories. That's something that probably deserves to get highlighted again for the next simulation scene.

As far as "how" it works, I'm a porn game dev, not a doctor. The game sort of references it during the opening sequence with the "OVERRIDE - NO LOOP - SUPPRESS." popping up every time a "real world" thought occurs to the MC. The sequence with Nat in her sim shows what happens when the sim decides it needs to loop back to preserve the narrative. The idea is that if something appears/happens that doesn't fit the narrative for that particular game the sim would do a sort of quick load to a previous state while also suppressing the user's memories of the issue. In the example we saw in the game since the MC and Qai were still there even after the little skip backwards it just threw the sim into a loop and ultimately contributed to crashing the game.

The technical specifics of how that aspect works is something I plan on staying pretty vague about since I'm not a neurologist and less information is probably better than wrong information.

Haven't played in a while, but from memory:

(1), (2) and (4) seemed reasonably clear. Bullet (1) was made clearer with the reworked intro, but it might be good to have the point come up 'naturally' in some conversation or other in the next update. Possibly (2) as well. (4) was clear from the three very distinct sims conforming to video game clichés.

(3) seemed likely from context without the exact ownership and operation being made overly explicit. We certainly see Qoniv having a large part in distributing and controlling the sims, but you have room to finesse the finer detail down the line if it becomes relevant.

I think (5) came up once or twice, at least with some mentions of an implant, but could be clearer.

I'm not consumed with desire to learn more, but imagine some of the details will become important as the story progresses. Fudging the stuff that isn't key to the story is fine.

EDIT: Oh, but if (2) was the absolute rule, shouldn't Nat remember the MC and Qai crashing her sim? It's currently just written off as "she's forgotten or believes it was a dream."




Maybe, but that's all we as players have to judge her on so far. There's no indication that she's anything other than her first impression.

This is not (necessarily) a bad thing. It's fine to revise an opinion as we get to know her better. Just keep in mind that you as the dev/writer know the characters much more fully than we do: Ness may become the fan favourite by chapter 8, but all we as players know is what we've seen of her in 0.1.1. This is only a problem if the initial impression is so poor it turns the player away from her completely so any later 'redemption' never gets a chance.

I just went back and added a little bit to the line about Nat forgetting to clear it up a bit/make it more consistent. The general idea being that Qai can keep the sim from fucking with the MC's memory but not anyone else's. This is also something I'll touch on again in the upcoming sim scene.

I didn't mean to imply that the audience is *wrong* to make certain judgements about Ness at this point, or that they're making judgements because I was unclear or their misreading things. I was just using that as an example of how if I don't explicitly explain some things players might draw their own conclusions and react strongly to those conclusions. That's okay if it doesn't completely throw them off the game or when they get new information it doesn't seem like a forced gotcha fake out. I already used up my allotted forced gotcha fake out with the opening sequence so I'm not allowed to do it again for at least 6 months.

TLDR- great feedback, I'm going to have Qai highlight some of this stuff a little in an upcoming scene and hopefully it will make things clear while also feeling natural.

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