It's okay to complain while not paying?

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89tasker

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On the flip side... Apple doesn't have to listen to Android users, unless they want to increase their market share.
 

DarthSeduction

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Sticking to a creative concept is the ideal, but not every developer/writer/movie maker can afford that. No developer/writer/movie maker can carter to every wish, but often he wont have the luxury of ignoring audience wishes alltogether. If you are lucky you may be successful with just the game/book/movie you had in mind, but you can't be 100% sure about that. If you already have a concept that is attractive to a broader audience, you may be able to ignore later customer wishes.

I think the less known you are as a developer/writer/movie maker, the more likely you need to "market" you work. Of course you can go a different way, dismiss advice, take the risk and hope to gain access to a completely new audience.
Actually, its the opposite that's true. As you become more mainstream the types of projects that are available to you are dictated, not by the audience, technically, but by studio interpretation of the audience. That's why almost all great films these days are Indie films, except for visionary directors like Tarentino and Nolan who have largely been allowed to do what they want.

Indie developers create something they want to create, be that in literary fiction, film, or gaming. It's the way of things. We are artists first, capitalists second.
 

DarthSeduction

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"Free" speech implies that you don't have to pay.
That's not what free speech means. At all. Also, as any capitalist will tell you, your money is your speech. If you like something, you pay, if you don't you don't. Its you saying yes or no with your dollar. If enough people say yes, something makes money. Regardless of quality.
 

Ignatz

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The cost of free speech is very high indeed. And often the price is far greater than money.
 

DarthSeduction

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The cost of free speech is very high indeed. And often the price is far greater than money.
The cost of free speech is the willingness to enter into a social contract, work with your neighbors and they with theirs and so on and so forth until everyone is working together toward the common cause of freedom. But that's hard and people don't want to do it. What we have currently isn't free speech. It's the appearance of it.
 
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Ignatz

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That's a little melodramatic. We have plenty of free speech. We also have plenty who don't know the value of it. I would suggest that those are the ones who probably don't know that it can be lost without their active defense of it.

There are many aspects to free speech and, while a pirate porn site is a unique place to discuss it, in many respects, it might also be the most perfectly suited.
 

Thundorn

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Criticism from non paying customers is fine and is something that creators have to learn to deal with. The reality is that everyone has an opinion whether they have played a game or not. Take Deeper for example. The first day I posted the game, i got a huge number of comments from people who point blank refused to play the game because I added the Transgender tag, and the mere suggestion that there was a transgender in the game was enough for people to develop their opinion.
As a developer it's important to separate fact from opinion, and understand that listening to the non paying potential customers is equally as important as listening to the paying existing customers because they might give you insight into ways that you can capture their attention. As someone who reads a lot of comments both negative and positive it is necessary to develop a thick skin and try to pick out the important details from the emotional comments. If someone has had a negative experience, they may not elaborate on why it was negative and instead resort to unnecessarily derogatory language, and you can either choose to engage with them to try to get to the facts or you can do the modern thing of calling them haters and blindly carry on.
 

DarthSeduction

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That's a little melodramatic. We have plenty of free speech. We also have plenty who don't know the value of it. I would suggest that those are the ones who probably don't know that it can be lost without their active defense of it.

There are many aspects to free speech and, while a pirate porn site is a unique place to discuss it, in many respects, it might also be the most perfectly suited.
Melodramatic without context perhaps. However, due in no small part to the corrupting influence of money, our speech is limited to how much we can buy. And buy I mean literally, unless you're constantly invited to attend parties where you have the ear of those with the legislative power to make or break you, but also don't have any money to purchase such access.

Sure, we get to vote and we can say fuck the person in charge, but as I said before, these are tokens, especially in the US. Studies show, that the popularity of a policy with the bottom 90% of income earners has statistically 0 effect on its chances of being made into law. in raw terms, no matter if we like or dislike a policy it has a flat 30% chance of happening. However, the popularity of a policy with the top 10% of income earners has a massive swing, with 100% approval granting over 60% chance of it being made law, and 0% approval being able to kill a policy outright. Realistically, if we truly had the same power of speech as the wealthy, the line should go from kill to near 100% certainty among the 90% as we are the vast majority.
 

Ignatz

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Can you point me to some of those studies. I find those statistics fascinating.
 

Ignatz

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Excellent. I'll need to spend some time with such a voluminous article, but that should allow me to do follow-up comparisons on my own.

I expect it will be some time before I post my conclusions. Perhaps a visit to the eye doctor and a couple of Tylenol from now!
 
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baneini

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Soon it'll be the case that it's literally impossible to pay for a porn game so that'll solve the issue of pirates complaining.
 

SolarEclipsed

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It is ok to complain about a game if you have not paid for it, I think if the complaint is constructive and not a whine on how the game isn't what you want it to be.
The 2 complaints I have always disliked are 1) Complaining that the content is not what YOU want it to be, you are playing someone else's brain child, if you want a game your way then make a game that you want to play. 2) Complaining because you have told the dev how to make THEIR game better and then bitching because they have either blocked you or plainly just ignored you, (There was a really aggressive arsehole on here that was saying he did this to Faerin with MoTH).

Constructive criticism is useful if the dev is willing to listen to you. As a supporter of Daniels I gave him feedback after he asked me my opinion at the end of MGA so I didn't go on a slag fest, I told him what I liked but also told him some things I didn't like. One of the biggest things I hate is people being given the opportunity to add a scene and a character and they put in the most fucked up fetish or there is a great character introduced for this scene that would add to the game that is a flash in the pan. Though any character I add in a porn game will probably look like Jessica Rabbit
 

DarthSeduction

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There was a really aggressive arsehole on here that was saying he did this to Faerin with MoTH
Given the game, and my own past with criticizing it, he may have had a valid reason. That said, Faerin was pretty chill about my pointed criticism of his writing and use of grind as a cop out.
 

Lykanz

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As a struggling dev I won't deny tho, hearing the same complaint over and over is kinda tiring. Bad design choices can lead to a lot of headaches... Tell me about it... I had to put a damn disclaimer on my project's thread.
 

SolarEclipsed

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Given the game, and my own past with criticizing it, he may have had a valid reason. That said, Faerin was pretty chill about my pointed criticism of his writing and use of grind as a cop out.
This guy was screaming saying he told Faerin that his sex scenes sucked and TOLD him to improve them, nothing about the grinding
 
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Yoshiiki

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It's okay to complain while not paying?
Are we talking about morality of it? Probably not on the good side.
So, who is going to stop people from doing it? No one, issue solved.
 

sirbajo

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I don't mind that ppl are talking about a game that they don't pay for. But like some ppl have said before : if you give negative response use feedback. Say how to improve or what's wrong.

Flaming or insulting ppl that support a developer that isn't keeping his promise and giving no info about the update is something totally diffrent.
If your paying then you have the RIGHT imo to complain about the developer not giving shit because you are paying to support him because you believe in his/them/her project/idea.

If complain about the gameplay , bad scenes, bad graphics, no story or lack off I don't mind ppl doing that.

Knowing that some developers DO have a account on this forum to read some thread & get feedback.
 

Lykanz

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The 2 complaints I have always disliked are 1) Complaining that the content is not what YOU want it to be, you are playing someone else's brain child, if you want a game your way then make a game that you want to play. 2) Complaining because you have told the dev how to make THEIR game better and then bitching because they have either blocked you or plainly just ignored you
Quoted for truth...

(There was a really aggressive arsehole on here that was saying he did this to Faerin with MoTH).
Was it the same guy who was spurting nonsensical rant at the Au-Pair Innocence thread?
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