ImperatorAugustusTertius

Engaged Member
Sep 12, 2020
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Ahh. Neat, so out of curiosity, any plans on that (Rosa) becoming a part of the main/dev branch or whatever?

But yeah, picked up the dev branch a bit ago, will likely play a bit this weekend. Definitely interesting to see that development in any form is continuing. Last I heard someone was working on a "sequel" in a completely different engine, but aint heard about it in ages, so I am assuming that is dead in the water...
If sarinee wants it integrated at some point, I'm open to it. However, we have a rule about not using censored images, so there's some aesthetic work to be done aside from finishing the design and the coding. We also probably have some differences of opinion on design/gameplay to work out. For now, it's an independent project and a work in progress.

Dev branch is getting several updates a day as I'm play-testing and tweaking this and that. Feedback would be appreciated if you do give it a try.

As to a sequel, the original author OldHuntsman was working on something, but I haven't checked on it for a while.

There's also a Russian development team that branched off from 1.7.5 (or 6?) and is working on it independently with very different design ideas. They put out a new release recently.
 

ImperatorAugustusTertius

Engaged Member
Sep 12, 2020
2,106
803
sometimes the application closes with an error. I don’t understand what this is called - sometimes simple actions are a reward / lesson, sometimes the end of the day.
ver 2.2.1
Apparently a crash in MF.dll. That's a core Windows library, part of the Media Foundation. Not something we include with the game, just something that it references (very indirectly, I suspect).

What version of Windows are you running?

You can try reinstalling the Visual C++ redistributables just in case:



You'll want to reinstall both the latest one (for 2015 through 2022) and the 2013 one.

Note the page has links for english versions, if you need other languages then the page has links to where you can get them but you might need a Microsoft website login (presumably free). I don't know how to check if you need other languages. But I'm pretty sure you don't, having looked at this page:

On my computer, there are two copies of MF.dll:

1644979594058.png

And these are the properties of the first one (in C:\Windows\SysWOW64):

1644979678895.png

As you can see, it's quite old (2014/2015). If you have something different it might be because you have a different version of Windows than I do. Or it might be that your computer has some broken system files.
 
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sarinee

Member
Apr 12, 2021
290
145
If sarinee wants it integrated at some point, I'm open to it. However, we have a rule about not using censored images, so there's some aesthetic work to be done aside from finishing the design and the coding. We also probably have some differences of opinion on design/gameplay to work out. For now, it's an independent project and a work in progress.
Pics without cencorship is followed.

Beside of new game contents, there are at least three aspects I'm focus on,
first is various of 'currency', I'm not quite fond of trading everything with money, I regard it as a simplified substitution when other systems are not finished, and a rich game content should provide alternatives for players to achieve some certain goals or set different ways for unique things like the 4 forum quests, which needs not less testing to do balancing. So, except for money buying, barter, doing favor & using favor, gaining reputation & using reputation, looting all can be good ways to enrich game interests. That's why I always give you suggestion on mist combat loots, cause' many things, including girls, they come from the mist right? Since nearly everything can be bought through money, guild reputation, faction fame, npc attitude(not in use) are less necessary while playing.

second is to simplify operations, this game already own some, the 'silent rule'. But it nearly skips every event, which is also not what we want to see, and it may be replaced with a 'simple report' like what you do in quest description. And in my mod, if not necessary for detailed information, I won't show new events in end-day section, but sepera simple descriptions into dialogs、infos and maybe even letting it affect menus.

third is to optimize the game experience, 4 wearings like bull ring, I added a wearing slot and 4 rings, which will definitely make it easier and more convenient for your playing, working differently in and out of hard mode. More similar contents subject to change, these part should be designed carefully, not to ruin game experience.

Disagreements exist between us, so what will you do if conflicts happens? For example, mist combat loots, and maybe further team battle(if I can succeed to handle the russian code).
 
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ImperatorAugustusTertius

Engaged Member
Sep 12, 2020
2,106
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Number three is hilarious and my favorite.

Do you recommend testing the dev version with a new game, or is a 2.2 save compatible?
Save games from 2.2 or 2.2.1 are compatible with the dev version. Starting a new game would be optional, but it would be good to have feedback on whether you can manage to get into a sustainable cashflow-positive situation considering all of the cost increases.
 
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ImperatorAugustusTertius

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Sep 12, 2020
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Pics without cencorship is followed.
Great!

Beside of new game contents, there are at least three aspects I'm focus on,
first is various of 'currency', I'm not quite fond of trading everything with money, I regard it as a simplified substitution when other systems are not finished, and a rich game content should provide alternatives for players to achieve some certain goals or set different ways for unique things like the 4 forum quests, which needs not less testing to do balancing. So, except for money buying, barter, doing favor & using favor, gaining reputation & using reputation, looting all can be good ways to enrich game interests. That's why I always give you suggestion on mist combat loots, cause' many things, including girls, they come from the mist right? Since nearly everything can be bought through money, guild reputation, faction fame, npc attitude(not in use) are less necessary while playing.

second is to simplify operations, this game already own some, the 'silent rule'. But it nearly skips every event, which is also not what we want to see, and it may be replaced with a 'simple report' like what you do in quest description. And in my mod, if not necessary for detailed information, I won't show new events in end-day section, but sepera simple descriptions into dialogs、infos and maybe even letting it affect menus.

third is to optimize the game experience, 4 wearings like bull ring, I added a wearing slot and 4 rings, which will definitely make it easier and more convenient for your playing, working differently in and out of hard mode. More similar contents subject to change, these part should be designed carefully, not to ruin game experience.

Disagreements exist between us, so what will you do if conflicts happens? For example, mist combat loots, and maybe further team battle(if I can succeed to handle the russian code).
Regarding disagreements, the way it's worked so far is that qwerty and I (and any other active developers) debate whatever point, trying to reach consensus, and then either find something we both accept or one of us defers to the other. Usually in cases where we can't agree, I defer to qwerty. On a few occasions, we've taken the approach of having it both ways, depending on game difficulty setting.

Your three aspects are:

#1 an economics overhaul including new resource types (loot, favors) and new uses for existing resources (bartering items, trading reputation) and new systems for acquiring/managing/using the new resource types (loot acquisition, loot inventory, loot uses, favor acquisition, favor status, favor uses)

#2 UI changes

#3 other new features that affect gameplay including new inventory slots and new items that apply modifiers when worn

For each of them, I need more information, but at a high level, while I like the concept of existing variables (like reputation) having more uses, and favors are an interesting idea I would like to explore further, I am concerned about introducing a loot mechanic.

As we have it now, everything you need can be acquired from shops. If I understand your idea correctly, that would still be true with a loot system: you would be able to buy everything you could loot from shops. Effectively, then, loot is just another form of money in a more restricted form with some randomization. What is the benefit of adding so much complexity? Mists combat is already rewarding - you get a trophy slave, which can be trained or converted into sparks.

Loot needs to have a purpose, so you would need to introduce new game systems for using it, or change existing game systems to require it, for example the modified potion recipes you suggested earlier. For potions, we would need to communicate to players all of the new recipes, so we would need to modify all of Mystra's dialogue, and we would need to modify the brewing system to consume these extra ingredients, and we would need to add all of these extra ingredients to various shops (new shops?) for players to be able to buy them without combat, etc. This is a lot of significant changes and a lot of work. I am not convinced so far that the end result would be a better game.

In other games that have loot systems, there is usually an exclusive aspect, in the sense that looting is the only way to obtain certain items, which are valuable for progression. This usually combines with an exploration system, needing to go to different places to obtain different loot, and the gameplay involves managing limited inventory space, crafting, barter/sale interfaces for trading items for other items or for money, and a "gacha" aspect, with randomization of "drops" and low-probability "rare" items encouraging players to repeat the same activity many times in hopes of obtaining a certain desired item. This is exploiting the human psychology of gambling addiction to keep players engaged. In multiplayer games, rare loot systems often pair with systems for trading between players (auctions, etc.) and introduce cooperation/competition aspects (guilds/teams/parties, farming, kill stealing, raids, bragging rights for having the best X or being first to reach milestone Y, etc.).

In JONT, we want to keep players engaged in the training loop. A loot system would be a major undertaking and I am not seeing a compelling benefit. Instead I am seeing a lot of revision of existing systems to add complexity that in the end doesn't really change anything. Of course, I might be missing something. Do you see it differently?
 

sarinee

Member
Apr 12, 2021
290
145
Regarding disagreements, the way it's worked so far is that qwerty and I (and any other active developers) debate whatever point, trying to reach consensus, and then either find something we both accept or one of us defers to the other. Usually in cases where we can't agree, I defer to qwerty. On a few occasions, we've taken the approach of having it both ways, depending on game difficulty setting.
Get it.

#2 UI changes
Yes, it maybe the simple way to report events quickly, using current assests and simply edit some UI.
The 'random' dialogs or infos I mentioned before, needs at least a function that determines which dialogs to show before showing it, and many other related variable needed too, so I'm doing it only in my mods.

Loot needs to have a purpose, so you would need to introduce new game systems for using it, or change existing game systems to require it, for example the modified potion recipes you suggested earlier. For potions, we would need to communicate to players all of the new recipes, so we would need to modify all of Mystra's dialogue, and we would need to modify the brewing system to consume these extra ingredients, and we would need to add all of these extra ingredients to various shops (new shops?) for players to be able to buy them without combat, etc. This is a lot of significant changes and a lot of work. I am not convinced so far that the end result would be a better game.

In other games that have loot systems, there is usually an exclusive aspect, in the sense that looting is the only way to obtain certain items, which are valuable for progression. This usually combines with an exploration system, needing to go to different places to obtain different loot, and the gameplay involves managing limited inventory space, crafting, barter/sale interfaces for trading items for other items or for money, and a "gacha" aspect, with randomization of "drops" and low-probability "rare" items encouraging players to repeat the same activity many times in hopes of obtaining a certain desired item. This is exploiting the human psychology of gambling addiction to keep players engaged. In multiplayer games, rare loot systems often pair with systems for trading between players (auctions, etc.) and introduce cooperation/competition aspects (guilds/teams/parties, farming, kill stealing, raids, bragging rights for having the best X or being first to reach milestone Y, etc.).
Apparently, I won't introduce such a complicated system in this designed game with already tens of thousands codes. I'm not a fancier lol.

Let me introduce my mod's designing thoughts first.
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As we have it now, everything you need can be acquired from shops. If I understand your idea correctly, that would still be true with a loot system: you would be able to buy everything you could loot from shops. Effectively, then, loot is just another form of money in a more restricted form with some randomization. What is the benefit of adding so much complexity? Mists combat is already rewarding - you get a trophy slave, which can be trained or converted into sparks.
Loot needs to have a purpose, so you would need to introduce new game systems for using it, or change existing game systems to require it, for example the modified potion recipes you suggested earlier. For potions, we would need to communicate to players all of the new recipes, so we would need to modify all of Mystra's dialogue, and we would need to modify the brewing system to consume these extra ingredients, and we would need to add all of these extra ingredients to various shops (new shops?) for players to be able to buy them without combat, etc. This is a lot of significant changes and a lot of work. I am not convinced so far that the end result would be a better game.
Oh my mistake, I have to clarify that, the new loots for potion ingredients is just an idea, not necessary, and not in my plan either. Getting meth is also looting.

You collected some ingredients(for food or potion) BY THE WAY, if potion ingredients cost more, then patrolling along the edge will be more attractive, it is adventuring or exploring already, though very simple than those jrpg games. Loots are random, and the quantity isn't large(loots form one battle is not enough for a potion), better than none, and it's a reward for skilled hunters.

It doesn't make much difference to original game, but contributes to a better game experience.
But if you insist on keep the ingredients at a low price, then it really make no sense to change the loot system either.

Also, is there any unique items which can't be bought through money? yes, the fire staff, but if you go into mist only for this staff, it's taking the branch for the root, you take fire staff for mist combat loots, rather than you take risks mainly for a staff.
Encountering Rosa can be imagined as a unique loot right? A great found when exploring the mist.

In JONT, we want to keep players engaged in the training loop. A loot system would be a major undertaking and I am not seeing a compelling benefit. Instead I am seeing a lot of revision of existing systems to add complexity that in the end doesn't really change anything. Of course, I might be missing something. Do you see it differently?
Well, it's hard to say, I think the gameplay is a bit too monotonous, you train first slave for money, second slave for money, an S+ for money, , so in my contents above, some parts they don't work directly for your training loop, just for fun.
 
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azzfd

Newbie
Aug 18, 2020
52
22
Hello, it seems that the wiki is kinda out of date when it comes to how to increase slave basic attributes, can we find these informations in the game files ? For exemple I have a hard time at raising temperament without spamming serve me > entertain me
 

ImperatorAugustusTertius

Engaged Member
Sep 12, 2020
2,106
803
-ia dev branches updated with following changes:

1. one-click cryo swaps at home (uses new button icons, added to media-ia but also attached to this post so you don't need to download the whole media pack - unzip icons in pic/ui/crushboss/)

2. allow to go slow at start of races (sometimes the first segment can't be passed otherwise, depending on the pony you're using)

3. devoted slaves are now less likely to fight when you punish them

4. wound healing formula for master and slaves is now consistent

5. lowered cost of lab/serpis/taurus rentals by 100$
 

ImperatorAugustusTertius

Engaged Member
Sep 12, 2020
2,106
803
Let me introduce my mod's designing thoughts first.
Most of your design seems okay. The parts of your design that concern me are potential inconsistencies with other "facts" in the game.

1. Renting a manor - space in Eternal Rome is very limited and expensive, so how is a manor available for sale; in what part of the city is it located; and how much does it cost? It sounds like it is much larger than even the white town apartment? But not in white town.

2. Keeping babies from pregnancy - according to Reverend Blanchett from the Vatican, "God rarely allows new souls to appear right in Rome. Especially since this is not possible without special rituals. Without our guardianship your baby will be born without a soul and will die soon." The Vatican keeps the babies, why? The Vatican supplies sparks to the great houses. Where do the sparks come from? Sparks are crystallized bits of the flame of creation, which exists in living souls.

So it is theoretically possible for babies to be born, but the Vatican has a monopoly on the method and keeps it secret. Serpis is trying to rediscover the method, without success.

We have on the roadmap a proposal to introduce a new NPC that would be a mad scientist previously working for Serpis who eventually could find a way to allow successful births. (I should add, not necessarily with the souls that would've originally belonged to them...)

I think the gameplay is a bit too monotonous, you train first slave for money, second slave for money, an S+ for money,
Have you tried a zero start with latest dev branch?
 
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campfap

Member
Jul 31, 2017
144
212
I'm trying to get into this game as i love simulation games but i have a few questions i couldnt find an answer in the wiki, maybe someone knows.
  1. So I'm still playing the tutorial on normal (figured i should be able to do atleast this much before starting the game) and after the second week or so i'm always getting the "metabolism of your slave is seriously disturbed". I always try to have the calorie count at around 0 at the end of the day but i still get this affliction. What am i doing wrong ?
  2. It seems around 15-20 Obedience i'm having a hard time getting it higher. I'm trying to keep the mood up and check if she has any requests, but still starts to stagnate around these numbers. So I'm wondering what is an obedience value i should aim for ? Keep it at that and rise her skills or should it be much higher and i'm doing something wrong.
Thanks
 
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