QSP Jack-o-Nine-Tails [v2.3] [ImperatorAugustusTertius / qwertyu12359]

[0tris]

Raising strength while living in the slums requires eating out, plenty of sparring or plenty of sex. You're limited by your energy. If you get exhausted, that saps your strength. With the bull ring, you can do more actions per day, so prioritize that forum mission. Be careful with stimulant drugs, abuse can have tragic consequences.

Raising fighting skill requires winning battles against worthy opponents - any Fog opponent, or arena sparring above your skill level - or personally teaching gladiatrix lessons to slaves who are just below your skill level.

I trust you've read through the tutorial lectures? They explain how to develop obedience and a lot of other important info. Every line of text in the tutorial is there for a reason. Clicking on attributes and stats (and checkboxes) and reading the help text is also recommended.

There is an important difference between "refuses to do it" and "does it badly" - if she's refusing to do it, she needs to be more obedient first. If she's doing it badly, she needs to be more motivated. Motivation comes partly from the slave and partly from the teacher. An F- teacher will have a harder time motivating the slave. Of course, fear is a strong motivator too, but if a slave is depressed and terrified, they may just dissociate. Mood is very important if you want a slave to learn well. A proper uniform helps too.

If you don't have an assistant and you have no teaching skills, use different teachers. School, tutors. Meanwhile develop your own skills by personally doing housework, cooking (if you're not in the slums), magic, sparring, etc. And sex, of course, once the slave is obedient enough for it. Training concubines is a worthwhile pursuit for a slaver who is otherwise lacking in talent.

If she's guilty every morning because of broken rules, you're giving her rules she's not willing to obey and you're not enforcing them. Most rules need special items to be enforced. If you click on the "rules broken" underlined link at the bottom of her rules checkboxes, it will show you more information.

Mindbreak is a negative for selling a slave but it has positives too. She won't refuse anything. She won't be very motivated but you can still teach her skills, and you can use her to develop your own skills. You can also recover her by building up her nature attribute, although that may be more expensive than getting a new slave.

If you're still stuck, here's an offer:

1. Get a new slave and upload your saved game from the start of the decade here.
2. Play for a decade and write a description of what you did each day and post it here along with that saved game.
3. I'll take your saved game and do the same and we can compare.

Thanks a lot for the reply, but most of the things you listed are things that aren't realistic with a Nerd start where I'm pressed to pump out a couple low quality slaves fast enough to not go bankrupt (or am I supposed to train up my first few slaves in the slum apartment? - never actually tried that)

I usually go for the sundress and give it to them even before I can gift it via reward just to manage mood a little, is that wrong?

Getting them to a point where I can actually try to teach them something isn't completly impossible, but doing it a way that is even remotely fast enough is...

Should I just go with 2 rules to avoid the guilty pts every morning? The only ones I can use are no masturbating and deny orgasm - behave: humility/silence never works at least for the first few days and those are the ones with the lowest requirements or am I wrong there?

I highly doubt Mind breaking is a good idea early on either.

I reread the tutorial and replayed it as well and I somewhat managed (not yet with the amazon though) but the PC already has a lot of training and aura.
I'll try the tutorial amazon a few more times but I'm not sure if it will even help me when I start in slums with a normal playthrough afterwards.

A rough description of how I start my game would be:
First day I buy a lash + aketon, get a massage and fight in coliseum.
Next few days I repeat that, sometimes going to Serpentine for a meal, sometimes getting massages, while looking for a doable guild contract.
Once I find a guild contract that looks doable I accept that and immediately get an apartment, pick up Isabella and take a loan before I run out of money.
Then I try to get the slave trained, which simply takes me way too long (even if I sell Isabella to take care of the loan repayment - I was even able to finish a contract once by picking up the next loan but it took me so long that starting on the 2nd slave contract wasnt even worth it at that point...
I also experimented a little, using Isabella as training material to get a bit of dominance and sex skills trained up but didn't succeed training up a slave without an assistant in time, stamina is way too brutal early on it feels like...

Do you have any tips that are a little more specific to the slum start?

Aside from that, if I'm still stuck after doing the above I'd gladly take you up on your offer.

Cheers

 

[i107760]

Unless it has changed, on the Nerd stat you need to borrow money, pay it back, borrow more money and then use that money to grind a guild contract. Haven't played in a while so can't give exact strategies on how to actually train slaves, but I assume the standard tips for contracts still apply (save scum until you get an easy contract, not a hard one i.e. pony).

 

[HeadsExplode]

2. Players sometimes overlook the fact that they can change their defense type (arrow under portrait)

This helped a crapload thanks.

Thanks a lot for the reply, but most of the things you listed are things that aren't realistic with a Nerd start where I'm pressed to pump out a couple low quality slaves fast enough to not go bankrupt (or am I supposed to train up my first few slaves in the slum apartment? - never actually tried that)

I usually go for the sundress and give it to them even before I can gift it via reward just to manage mood a little, is that wrong?

Getting them to a point where I can actually try to teach them something isn't completly impossible, but doing it a way that is even remotely fast enough is...

Should I just go with 2 rules to avoid the guilty pts every morning? The only ones I can use are no masturbating and deny orgasm - behave: humility/silence never works at least for the first few days and those are the ones with the lowest requirements or am I wrong there?

I highly doubt Mind breaking is a good idea early on either.

Less than a full page back I started playing this again and ran into a lot of similar problems with how much the games changed. I don't have it completely figured out yet but I'll throw some general observations out there to see if help your approach at all or if you or the other people responding here have any input one way or another (I'd appreciate knowing if I'm looking at any of it wrong).
I can't speak specifically for the Nerd start. I'm playing on Classic/Normal difficulty with a custom character built fairly strongly (I only started with like 400-500 gold, no perfect skills but one below and only I think one or two not improved at all or red).

So some blind leading the blind opinions...

I hated having to save-scum but for starting with such low money it seemed really important to do it so I could get an Assistant or Servant D- contract from the Guild. Those seemed to take anywhere from 15-30 days depending on the girl. I needed to prioritize accepting slaves with middling Temperment and Nature. Lower Pride was always a bonus as well. Anyone with Blue+ Temperment and Nature often needed a crazy amount of abuse to really accept anything outside of their comfort zone, and I had a hard time with the new systems doing so without depressing them and breaking their Sanity. (and it doesn't really matter for Guild contracts anyway?)

Like Imperator and Qwertyu told me, it can't be overstated how the slave's states determine what training she's willing to do. The example of a weak, feeble and out of shape slave not readily accepting heavy physical training and needing to work up from the basic athletics first helped it click for me.
This is your key to getting the slave to accept training early on, you need to play to what it looks like she wants to do. This also means you benefit strongly from trying a scatter gun approach and trying all your options to see if it reveals a hidden trait/talent (I.e if she loves cooking, or takes to expressing herself as an orator). They're seem pretty much guaranteed to not only accept training for this if they have the talent, but also easily excel with A+ or S results every time as long as their mood is positive. It becomes the easiest way to reward her for listening to you and building some obedience and trust with proper rewarding (and keeping spoil in check).
Even if you take a contract for making a gladiatrix, try some Cooking training and if it reveals she wants to be a cook, spend a few lessons on it anyway. It will pay off and make her easier to mold into a fighter down the line.

Go on the anime-sharing wiki and check over the Slave stats to see what contributes to Despair and Fear.
Under Despair you'll see it increases by forcing her to follow rules she wouldn't otherwise obey. This is very very important. You say you wake up with her having Guilty every day. Sometimes it's a lot better to change out that troublesome rule than try to punish her into obeying it because not only her refusal to follow it contributes to her failing mental state, so does the punishment you inflict when she does... It spirals, fast.
Additionally, use the Ask features about how she's feeling and whatnot. If she says she doesn't like sleeping in your bed, give her the bedroll back for now and deal with other concerns. Those constantly ticking against you throws a wrench into things.
In the older versions, the route to setting up gradually increasing rules as well as living standards/permissions was much, much quicker. Here you have to kind of lose that mentality of "well its been long enough now right" and really deal with the slave's innate desires as well as your level of breaking her in.

There's a lot of times I'll have certain rules/living conditions set for a single day. Temperment and Nature can tank fast and fear can snowball. You really need to stay ontop of it or you'll end up with a mind broken slave after a single week. Threaten really helps get her listening in the short term but don't overdo it.

Honestly, I think you should just ditch the Nerd start, and definitely lower the obedience difficulty to normal. The games different enough and difficult enough you don't need those added challenges, as you called them. You have a lot to learn and adapt to as it is without some artificial difficulty settings and maluses right now.

edit: one important part in picking slaves/contracts as well.... Loli and Young slaves apparently get a base +2 and +1 to Obedience respectively. Keep that in mind when weighing their starting stats.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

Thanks a lot for the reply, but most of the things you listed are things that aren't realistic with a Nerd start where I'm pressed to pump out a couple low quality slaves fast enough to not go bankrupt (or am I supposed to train up my first few slaves in the slum apartment? - never actually tried that)

With the first slave, every spark counts. For everything you're doing that costs sparks, ask yourself if you can live without it. Spa for you? Optional. Spa for slave? Optional, but if you have no other way to keep her mood up, maybe necessary. Casting lots of spells? If you've done the math and you have enough spare sparks to cover training costs plus cast the spells, OK, otherwise maybe wait until your second slave before delving into magic.

Taking a loan should be delayed as long as possible, if not avoided completely. You can take a loan any time. The later you take a loan, the longer you have before you have to repay it.

It's cheaper living in the slums. Harder to keep mood up, though, and you can't get good food, which means you have to work harder to stay fit... but, you can just accept being weak and manage your actions accordingly. Nothing says you need to get your strength above D- before you sell your first slave.

On the balance, you're usually better off not living in the slums. But, it's definitely possible to train slaves while living there. Even without an assistant. If you start without any reputation with the factions, you have no alternative.

You can also earn some sparks before selling the first slave, by having her compete in the arena. Don't expect to win races, but gladiatrix contests are definitely possible. Of course, a trained gladiatrix is likely to fight back if you try to physically punish her, so ... maybe don't pick fights you can't win? You can verbally punish her (ineffectually) safely enough to dispose of any guilt, but you can also try not to give her reasons to feel guilty if you aren't able to punish her...

I usually go for the sundress and give it to them even before I can gift it via reward just to manage mood a little, is that wrong?

Not wrong. But, you could alternatively put them in a uniform, which would remove the "naked" mood penalty, and a pair of slippers, which gives the same "comfort" mood boost as the sun dress. A uniform can improve the quality of a lesson of the corresponding type. School uniform is good for all classes.

Getting them to a point where I can actually try to teach them something isn't completly impossible, but doing it a way that is even remotely fast enough is...

Should I just go with 2 rules to avoid the guilty pts every morning? The only ones I can use are no masturbating and deny orgasm - behave: humility/silence never works at least for the first few days and those are the ones with the lowest requirements or am I wrong there?

Behave humility/silence rules require some obedience to be followed willingly.

Why use any rules with a resistant slave? A slave without rules will only become spoiled if they're unafraid. Guilt from rules is usually because the slave is breaking the rules, which means you're not enforcing them. As HeadsExplode explained, if you enforce rules (which costs sparks for the necessary items), that can lead to despair. In general, rules will lower the mood of a resistant slave. Therefore, rules are best used sparingly at the beginning of training, especially by a slaver who lacks the experience to enforce them or to compensate for their negative effects. Rules are powerful in the hands of an experienced slaver because they can rapidly build obedience, but as an F- slaver in the Slums, you lack tools to optimally manage the side effects.

The "no masturbation" and "deny orgasm" rules are unlikely to be tested by a resistant slave, of course, which makes them the "default choice" on normal difficulty. Hardcore difficulty expects you to set three rules on a fearless slave to avoid spoiling. So instill some fear, or pick a third rule and enforce it.

I highly doubt Mind breaking is a good idea early on either.

Mind breaking the first slave isn't ideal, no. But, you can still earn some sparks (before mind breaking them) by having them compete in the arena. Between that, delaying when you take a loan, and the fact that the guild will give you a free contract slave, you should be able to get away with mind breaking one slave to build up some skills, storing or otherwise disposing of her, and then applying your newfound skills to a second slave. Again, this isn't necessarily the best way to start a new game, but it's not a game-over strategy.

I reread the tutorial and replayed it as well and I somewhat managed (not yet with the amazon though) but the PC already has a lot of training and aura.
I'll try the tutorial amazon a few more times but I'm not sure if it will even help me when I start in slums with a normal playthrough afterwards.

Tutorial is easy difficulty, so it's not really good practice for hardcore, no. Lectures are where you'll find good advice.

A rough description of how I start my game would be:
First day I buy a lash + aketon, get a massage and fight in coliseum.

Unnecessary spending.

Next few days I repeat that, sometimes going to Serpentine for a meal, sometimes getting massages, while looking for a doable guild contract.

Unnecessary spending.

Once I find a guild contract that looks doable I accept that and immediately get an apartment, pick up Isabella and take a loan before I run out of money.

Isabella is effectively a less expensive tutor (you still have to pay for her upkeep). She's not as good as a tutor, but you'll spend less, so getting her is the "easy" mode for hardcore difficulty. You can also train your slaver's sex skills with her.

Then I try to get the slave trained, which simply takes me way too long (even if I sell Isabella to take care of the loan repayment - I was even able to finish a contract once by picking up the next loan but it took me so long that starting on the 2nd slave contract wasnt even worth it at that point...

Needing to sell Isabella to cover expenses is definitely a budgeting failure.

I also experimented a little, using Isabella as training material to get a bit of dominance and sex skills trained up but didn't succeed training up a slave without an assistant in time, stamina is way too brutal early on it feels like...

Do you have any tips that are a little more specific to the slum start?

Living in the Slums is meant to be difficult. Accept being impoverished and weak and dirty and miserable. Your depressed slaver won't commit suicide. Develop skills that don't require spending sparks (housework whenever there's a mess, sparring unarmed slaves until it's no longer doing anything for him). Don't exhaust energy. Hire tutors ($$$) or send the slave to classes ($$) or have Isabella teach ($). Tutors come to you, but someone needs to escort to classes, which costs energy. Don't pick fights you can't win (physical punishment vs. a slave who fights back). Keep the slave's mood up, including with spa visits if needed. A collar is a good idea, overnight, to instill obedience and in case she runs away. Earn sparks from arena each decade if you can.

You can succeed in the Slums without minimizing your expenses to this extent, but you need to remember that training the slave is necessary, training the slaver is a bonus.

 

[Nightmare800]

This game is really fucking unrealistic. Am I supposed to believe a woman would remain defiant in the face of constant beatings? I tried to set them up with simple house work after explaining their situation yet they remain defiant even after being beaten several times. Of course I tried verbal disciplining as well but it got me nowhere.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

Day 83, hard start with 200 sparks, no points. Old man for extra challenge.



Completed two guild contracts so far.

D- artist contract was the first. No traits. Started with Weakened endurance, which delayed things a bit. Completed (D- rating) in four decades, 5 days late. Needed to take a loan towards the end, but paid it back after turning in the contract and had 88 sparks left over.

Next was a D- gladiatrix contract. That was more difficult because her nature attribute started at D- and needed to be raised to B+ for the specialization. She was also more resistant (higher attributes, including Haughty pride to start). Luckily, she had a couple of traits (nurse and orator) that made it possible to train her early. Had to take another small loan (shorter deadline but less interest), and just barely managed to get her up to C- in four decades (2 days before the loan deadline, 5 days late).

After turning in a D- and a C-, my guild rank advanced, so I can now take D+ guild contracts, which give a larger pre-payment (100 sparks) and have a longer training period before late penalty (52 days, compared to 35 days for D-).

After paying off the loan and equipping a new contract slave (D+ witchdoctor), I have 150 sparks remaining.

This shows that even with contracts that wouldn't be considered "ideal", it is possible to succeed.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

This game is really fucking unrealistic. Am I supposed to believe a woman would remain defiant in the face of constant beatings? I tried to set them up with simple house work after explaining their situation yet they remain defiant even after being beaten several times. Of course I tried verbal disciplining as well but it got me nowhere.

Which difficulty? What are the stats of the slave and the slaver?

 

[Nightmare800]

Which difficulty? What are the stats of the slave and the slaver?

Which stats matter?

 

[Nightmare800]

Don't bother wasting your time on this, the slaves are unrealistically defiant and refusing to do simple tasks no matter how much you punish them, the art direction is absolute none, all of it stolen assets from other media. A thorough waste of time.

 

[Kornilov]

Don't bother wasting your time on this, the slaves are unrealistically defiant and refusing to do simple tasks no matter how much you punish them, the art direction is absolute none, all of it stolen assets from other media. A thorough waste of time.

If your slave still fights you, it is either because you are a weak and pathetic as shit slaver or you haven't beaten her enough.
And lol who the fuck cares about the "stolen assets"?
This is a pirate website, if you can't handle that get the fuck out

 

[Nightmare800]

If your slave still fights you, it is either because you are a weak and pathetic as shit slaver or you haven't beaten her enough.
And lol who the fuck cares about the "stolen assets"?
This is a pirate website, if you can't handle that get the fuck out

Why care about stolen assets? Because they don't fit into the environment. They weren't made for the purpose they are being used, which causes a dip in graphical fidelity and immersion.

''If your slave still fights you, it is either because you are a weak and pathetic as shit slaver or you haven't beaten her enough.''

My character was about average in most stats and the slave had D rating in pride. I've beaten her plenty enough too. This game's mechanics are absolutely retarded, I shouldn't have to beat a slave brutally several times over until she does basic fucking house chores.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

Which stats matter?

All stats matter. I asked about difficulty because hard makes slaves more resistant. On normal, an average slaver can get a slave to do house work in a day or two usually. You mentioned pride. Even if a slave has low pride, if they have other high stats then they will be more resistant.

How specifically are you beating them? Combat system or punishments? If punishments, are you matching the slave’s guilt? For example, slave has 2 guilt, you spank them (tier 1 punishment). The game interprets this as you being lenient. That doesn’t make the slave more obedient.

 

[HeadsExplode]

''If your slave still fights you, it is either because you are a weak and pathetic as shit slaver or you haven't beaten her enough.''

My character was about average in most stats and the slave had D rating in pride. I've beaten her plenty enough too. This game's mechanics are absolutely retarded, I shouldn't have to beat a slave brutally several times over until she does basic fucking house chores.

And Temperment and Nature also play a role in her overall attitude, not just pride. Mood as well, which if you're trying to beat her into obeying is going to work against you since she'll be depressed as hell most likely.
When you ask "what stats matter" it seems clear you're overlooking them - obviously, they all matter or else they would not be in the game. Everything impacts your ability to control a slave and how they feel about themself (as well as hidden traits you'll only see if you do something to trigger them, so everything isn't apparent from first glance either).

Mindbreak is in the game. That will happen (if you don't beat them brutally enough to kill them first) and they'll be easy to work with but useless to a lot of buyers (who want something more than a robot) but the game is about figuring out how to manipulate a slave into being what you want them to be. Which is where the obedience and devotion comes in.

The last dozen or so posts in this thread have been going over the mechanics and how they interact and should give you a better idea of what to do. It sounds like you haven't even completed the tutorial or grasped the concepts in the text lectures in the tutorial section of the game... You'd have a much easier time, and maybe understand the concept of the game better, if you started there or read more, rather than just jump into the game, get mad when it doesn't go your way and call the systems retarded.

If you actually want help, post the stats your slaver and slave were working with and how you tried dealing with her and you'll get some help and insight into the game. But there's enough variables to how obedience, devotion, fear etc all build based on the stat differences and your actions that it won't be as easy as "Yeah man just beat her more". The game isn't that simple, there's several things to consider. For instance you say that you can't get them to do housework "even" after beating them severely... That number in parentheses next to "guilty" when she disobeys an order shows the general severity level of punishments deemed fair or expected. Normally that's going to be (1) or (2) for refusing a training order or breaking a simple rule like humility, which on the physical punishments (this goes by the order they're laid out in since as you see, they increase in brutalness from the descriptions alone). That's Spank(1) or Slap(2).
I think Pinch is 3, Punch in the Stomach is 4 and Beat Brutally is 5.
So if you're choosing Beat Brutally for something that at most should just deserve a slap, she's going to resent you for it, which makes her much less likely to listen to you in the grand scheme of things. They need to feel the punishments are somewhat fair, otherwise why listen to anything at all if something as light as sneezing warrants a broken arm?
When you can't actually get some respect out of a slave, the girls in this game either have their sanity break and become emotionless robots who do whatever you say very easily, or they resist until they just take their life, attempt to fight you or just run away.
They're not housewives with stockholmes syndrome but people recently plucked from their regular lives and made into a slave. It makes more sense that they'd need more coaxing into taking your commands than just being beaten into it. Their whole lives up until this point were their own.

There's a whole aura system that tells you how strong the slave's various feelings are that helps you pinpoint what aspects of her mind are strong and independent and where you should try to gain more influence in. Fear is only one part of that.

This game is like 8 years old and continually developed with nearly 300 pages of discussion here alone... If people have been able to play it this long but you're having problems making sense of it, the problem might be more personal and just approaching the game the wrong way. I can see the game attracting someone because the setting seems very ryona-centric, that is, beating the girls into sex scenes seems like it would happen here. It's possible to go that route and it will be easier on some girls than others, but that's not what the game is about at all. The reason there is so many stats is because it's meant to simulate a more complex system than "Punch until she fears you enough to clear this threshold". It's like an old raising sim where you're trying to deprogram a girl then turn her into whatever it is that you need.

 

[Nightmare800]

And Temperment and Nature also play a role in her overall attitude, not just pride. Mood as well, which if you're trying to beat her into obeying is going to work against you since she'll be depressed as hell most likely.
When you ask "what stats matter" it seems clear you're overlooking them - obviously, they all matter or else they would not be in the game. Everything impacts your ability to control a slave and how they feel about themself (as well as hidden traits you'll only see if you do something to trigger them, so everything isn't apparent from first glance either).

Mindbreak is in the game. That will happen (if you don't beat them brutally enough to kill them first) and they'll be easy to work with but useless to a lot of buyers (who want something more than a robot) but the game is about figuring out how to manipulate a slave into being what you want them to be. Which is where the obedience and devotion comes in.

The last dozen or so posts in this thread have been going over the mechanics and how they interact and should give you a better idea of what to do. It sounds like you haven't even completed the tutorial or grasped the concepts in the text lectures in the tutorial section of the game... You'd have a much easier time, and maybe understand the concept of the game better, if you started there or read more, rather than just jump into the game, get mad when it doesn't go your way and call the systems retarded.

If you actually want help, post the stats your slaver and slave were working with and how you tried dealing with her and you'll get some help and insight into the game. But there's enough variables to how obedience, devotion, fear etc all build based on the stat differences and your actions that it won't be as easy as "Yeah man just beat her more". The game isn't that simple, there's several things to consider. For instance you say that you can't get them to do housework "even" after beating them severely... That number in parentheses next to "guilty" when she disobeys an order shows the general severity level of punishments deemed fair or expected. Normally that's going to be (1) or (2) for refusing a training order or breaking a simple rule like humility, which on the physical punishments (this goes by the order they're laid out in since as you see, they increase in brutalness from the descriptions alone). That's Spank(1) or Slap(2).
I think Pinch is 3, Punch in the Stomach is 4 and Beat Brutally is 5.
So if you're choosing Beat Brutally for something that at most should just deserve a slap, she's going to resent you for it, which makes her much less likely to listen to you in the grand scheme of things. They need to feel the punishments are somewhat fair, otherwise why listen to anything at all if something as light as sneezing warrants a broken arm?
When you can't actually get some respect out of a slave, the girls in this game either have their sanity break and become emotionless robots who do whatever you say very easily, or they resist until they just take their life, attempt to fight you or just run away.
They're not housewives with stockholmes syndrome but people recently plucked from their regular lives and made into a slave. It makes more sense that they'd need more coaxing into taking your commands than just being beaten into it. Their whole lives up until this point were their own.

There's a whole aura system that tells you how strong the slave's various feelings are that helps you pinpoint what aspects of her mind are strong and independent and where you should try to gain more influence in. Fear is only one part of that.

This game is like 8 years old and continually developed with nearly 300 pages of discussion here alone... If people have been able to play it this long but you're having problems making sense of it, the problem might be more personal and just approaching the game the wrong way. I can see the game attracting someone because the setting seems very ryona-centric, that is, beating the girls into sex scenes seems like it would happen here. It's possible to go that route and it will be easier on some girls than others, but that's not what the game is about at all. The reason there is so many stats is because it's meant to simulate a more complex system than "Punch until she fears you enough to clear this threshold". It's like an old raising sim where you're trying to deprogram a girl then turn her into whatever it is that you need.

Sounds more to me people learned to play through meta bullshit rather than actually playing the game as intended. Anyways, the game is fucking garbo, the artstyle shifts are nothing short of atrocious and the mechanics are extremely subpar. If you can't even get to START working with a slave and nothing including beating binding and torture works then that's bullshit. The combat is ridiculous too. Why does my character who has a warrior rank in strenth have 30 HP when even a basic slave has 40?

Sure, you have learned to play the game, doesn't mean that it's good or making any sense, trial and error is a thing you know, but I have better things to do than to waste days of time on this heap of garbage that can't even get an artstyle direction right.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

Sounds more to me people learned to play through meta bullshit rather than actually playing the game as intended. Anyways, the game is fucking garbo, the artstyle shifts are nothing short of atrocious and the mechanics are extremely subpar. If you can't even get to START working with a slave and nothing including beating binding and torture works then that's bullshit. The combat is ridiculous too. Why does my character who has a warrior rank in strenth have 30 HP when even a basic slave has 40?

Sure, you have learned to play the game, doesn't mean that it's good or making any sense, trial and error is a thing you know, but I have better things to do than to waste days of time on this heap of garbage that can't even get an artstyle direction right.

The baseline health of the slaver is a long-standing inconsistency that was discussed a couple of pages back and we're planning to address it.

If you want to engage on the topic of mechanics constructively, give specific examples and we can talk about what you expect vs. what is happening. I've twice now asked you for specifics and you've ignored my questions.

The art of the game is what it is. If you want to volunteer to find better art, go for it.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

master-ia and master-ia-patch have been updated with the following changes:

1. Loli slaves have a bit more health in combat.

1/5 reduction instead of 1/3. This works out to 40 health at S+ endurance instead of 34. This makes lolis slightly less disadvantaged in the arena. It sometimes will be enough to survive an extra round. For comparison, young slaves have 50 health at S+, mature slaves have 60.

2. Master baseline combat health increased and bonus health from chimaera gem normalized.

Baseline at S+ strength is now 70 (was 50 without chimaera gem). Gem bonus is related to aura strength, so it is increased by strength, dominance, the magna magnifika, and wearing other artifacts. Ranges from +3 to +16. So slaver health can be as high as 86 now.

 

[Nightmare800]

The baseline health of the slaver is a long-standing inconsistency that was discussed a couple of pages back and we're planning to address it.

If you want to engage on the topic of mechanics constructively, give specific examples and we can talk about what you expect vs. what is happening. I've twice now asked you for specifics and you've ignored my questions.

The art of the game is what it is. If you want to volunteer to find better art, go for it.

This isn't about the quality of the art, but it's iconsistency with the rest of the world. Don't know why should I be responsible for the game's development just because I criticize it, it's not my game, I'm just stating how it is. If you want my advice, either ditch the anime characters or make the whole game anime styled.

''I've twice now asked you for specifics and you've ignored my questions.''

I said my stats were average and that the slave's pride was D rank, if you deigned to learn how to read you could have done just that in my previous posts. Average means that I have around C or B rank in everything, except for torture, which is the lowest rank. Regardless beating the shit out of a slave should yield compliance if words do not. There is no point in playing a game about training slaves when the slaves refuse to obey basic tasks regardless of how much abuse you throw at them.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

This isn't about the quality of the art, but it's iconsistency with the rest of the world. Don't know why should I be responsible for the game's development just because I criticize it, it's not my game, I'm just stating how it is. If you want my advice, either ditch the anime characters or make the whole game anime styled.

Are you talking about background/location images? NPC images? Slave avatars and portraits? Scene images? Can you give a screenshot of something that stands out to you? The scene images are a mix of styles, some drawn, some anime. Is that what you mean?

''I've twice now asked you for specifics and you've ignored my questions.''

I said my stats were average and that the slave's pride was D rank, if you deigned to learn how to read you could have done just that in my previous posts. Average means that I have around C or B rank in everything, except for torture, which is the lowest rank.

Yes, I saw that. That's not enough information. I responded to you here: https://f95zone.to/threads/jack-o-n...ntsman-community-development.390/post-6557385

Regardless beating the shit out of a slave should yield compliance if words do not. There is no point in playing a game about training slaves when the slaves refuse to obey basic tasks regardless of how much abuse you throw at them.

Again ... what specifically are we talking about here? "Beating the shit out of a slave" as a description of what you did doesn't help me identify which part of the game mechanics you're talking about, because there are multiple things you could do that could be described that way, which have different gameplay effects. Also, the condition of the slave, and the slaver, when you did whatever actions you did, all affect the outcome.

When you say that the slave is refusing to obey basic tasks, are they actually refusing to do the task at all, or are they doing it poorly?

 

[Nightmare800]

Are you talking about background/location images? NPC images? Slave avatars and portraits? Scene images? Can you give a screenshot of something that stands out to you? The scene images are a mix of styles, some drawn, some anime. Is that what you mean?

Yes, exactly that, if you want people not to find the art style so awful, you need to decide which ones to use. Immersion matters.

Yes, I saw that. That's not enough information. I responded to you here: https://f95zone.to/threads/jack-o-n...ntsman-community-development.390/post-6557385

The issue here is the pride stat not correlating with the feedback I'm getting. D stat in pride is mediocre pride, she should be pliant once subjected to certain amount of pressure, you don't expect someone who is not very proud to resist after being subjected to all sorts of abuse. Hell even men often buckle under mere words, just look at 70's military training doctrine.

Again ... what specifically are we talking about here? "Beating the shit out of a slave" as a description of what you did doesn't help me identify which part of the game mechanics you're talking about, because there are multiple things you could do that could be described that way, which have different gameplay effects. Also, the condition of the slave, and the slaver, when you did whatever actions you did, all affect the outcome.

When you say that the slave is refusing to obey basic tasks, are they actually refusing to do the task at all, or are they doing it poorly?

I mean openly defying rules I set for her even when enforcing them.

Alright, let's see, the slave had subpar mental stats, C or lower in everything rxcept for intelligence. I had B or C stats mostly in everything, my torture was F though. Things I tried

Explaining her situation
Asking about her past
Light verbal punishment
Strong verbal punishment
Binding her (Had B in binding skill)
Mental torture (walking her naked, parading her naked on a stage)
Beating her with a belt
Beating her lightly
Beating her strongly
Beating the shit out of her

In all cases she remained defiant until she fell unconscious.

Yes I fed her properly
Yes I tried good cop and bad cop approach
Yes I kept myself washed and the place cleaned up
Yes I tried different approaches reloading the saved game at least a dozen times.

This game's mechanics are absolutely unrealistic and just plain stupid.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

Yes, exactly that, if you want people not to find the art style so awful, you need to decide which ones to use. Immersion matters.

qwertyu12359 do you want to address this? Personally, the mix of styles doesn't bother me, but if it's an issue for others we could put drawn images in a supplemental pack.

The issue here is the pride stat not correlating with the feedback I'm getting. D stat in pride is mediocre pride, she should be pliant once subjected to certain amount of pressure, you don't expect someone who is not very proud to resist after being subjected to all sorts of abuse. Hell even men often buckle under mere words, just look at 70's military training doctrine.

You're looking at one stat (pride) and ignoring the rest. The mental model used by the game is more complex. The game splits the slave's mental attributes into multiple categories: nature, temperament, pride, intellect, etc. All of these contribute to the slave's resistance.

"A certain amount of pressure" is what I want you to quantify. What exactly are we talking about here? Three spankings? Two punches? What was her guilt level when you applied those punishments? Did she fight back and you defeated her using the combat system?

You also haven't answered my question about the difficulty setting. Are you playing on easy, normal or hard? I said earlier that on normal difficulty, an average slaver can get a slave to do basic housework in a day or two. Are you not seeing that, or is a day or two not fast enough?

I mean openly defying rules I set for her even when enforcing them.

Do you have the items from the Necropolis shop? Gag for silence rule, etc. If you don't have the right items, you're not able to enforce those rules.

The game penalizes obedience when slaves are breaking the rules. This is probably the main cause of your frustration.

Also, if a slave is forced to obey rules, it increases their despair. Using rules on a resistant slave needs to be managed carefully.

Alright, let's see, the slave had subpar mental stats, C or lower in everything rxcept for intelligence. I had B or C stats mostly in everything, my torture was F though. Things I tried

Explaining her situation
Asking about her past
Light verbal punishment
Strong verbal punishment
Binding her (Had B in binding skill)
Mental torture (walking her naked, parading her naked on a stage)
Beating her with a belt
Beating her lightly
Beating her strongly
Beating the shit out of her

In all cases she remained defiant until she fell unconscious.

Yes I fed her properly
Yes I tried good cop and bad cop approach
Yes I kept myself washed and the place cleaned up
Yes I tried different approaches reloading the saved game at least a dozen times.

This game's mechanics are absolutely unrealistic and just plain stupid.

Explaining her situation is verbal persuasion and threats. The text displayed when you do it tells you if you got through or not. If not, you might have better luck if you wait until she's had some training. It's too late when she's already obedient, but if she's extremely resistant she'll just ignore it.

Asking about her past currently requires fairly high obedience. The slave background texts are not written from the perspective of a slave who hates you, and there are a lot of them, so we went with the idea that a resistant slave refuses to tell you about herself.

Punishments are expected to be matched to the slave's guilt level. If you hover over the small caret (^) in the lower left corner of the menu icon, the tooltip shows the level of the punishment. Mostly they go 1-5 but there are some exceptions. If you under-punish, the game interprets that as leniency. If you over-punish, the game interprets that as disproportionate. Leniency doesn't increase obedience (can in fact decrease it) but improves mood. Can be useful if the slave is depressed. Over-punishment is effective but also increases despair, which lowers mood and can lead to mindbreak.