QSP Jack-o-Nine-Tails [v2.3] [ImperatorAugustusTertius / qwertyu12359]

[Alkaid_]

Hmm, adding portraits in game probably wouldn't be worth the effort for coding the UI and automating it adding the references I assume have to to exist for each individual portrait (seeing as just adding it into the folder freeform didn't work. Each must be referenced by specific name.) It's simple enough just to replace one of the existing ones, and unless you're planning on having those portraits used for something like random encounters there isn't much reason to add more than what's there. Tying special events into appearance portrait is a bit odd though, I must say. XD

If you do decide to do that sort of thing, I wouldn't mind a template for adding characters to the 'normal start' option either, beyond just the appearance. (It probably wouldn't be too difficult to do but I have no idea what part of the code it exists in and if it's accessible through standard text editing.) Add their own little bio, predetermined skills and such. Could be fun.

 

[Alkaid_]

So I sent a slave to the corner with bondage when she had 1 punishment, and then after it she... suddenly had 2 positive merits?

She also gained them after a light scolding at 1 punishment as well, checking her aura she isn't spoiled at all and she is both reserved and cowardly. Just straaange. From observation it might be due to her pride 'upgrading' to being less prideful?

Also it kinda feels like it's impossible to bring excitement down even with mid-tier libido. And just through trying, you end up with capped out libido anyway.

Attempting these D- slave contracts for the guild and just reloading after 10 days because they keep foisting ultra-willful spoiled girls that don't respond to anything positive onto me. XD
I must have lucked out on my first purchase... She was really easy to work with.

 

[brlolilover]

Seems like when you select an alchemical base and go select the ingredients, but cancel the brewing, you lose said base.
Same with the ingredients if you cancel midway.
The "Cancel Brewing" text is also inconsistent in its casing: the first is "Cancel Brewing", then you have "Cancel brewing", then "Cancel Brewing" again and then "Cancel brewing"

 

[Alkaid_]

Why does public shaming not reduce pride? Seems kinda like it'd be tailored for that. Or maybe it does but I didn't use it right.

 

[qwertyu12359]

Why does public shaming not reduce pride? Seems kinda like it'd be tailored for that. Or maybe it does but I didn't use it right.

It does on higher tier. We had debates about it, I don't remember the arguments, but the outcome made sense.

ImperatorAugustus came up with the idea so he should be able to explain it better than me.

From what I remember, lower tier of public shamings were overpowered. But not only.

 

[Alkaid_]

It does on higher tier. We had debates about it, I don't remember the arguments, but the outcome made sense.

ImperatorAugustus came up with the idea so he should be able to explain it better than me.

From what I remember, lower tier of public shamings were overpowered. But not only.

I'm not saying it should absolutely shatter it but the third rank one (Public Canvas) not shifting it a single point for an S+ empathy slave shaking with humiliation and bawling her eyes out doesn't make any sense. There's a degree of continuum between "forced public gang rape/toilet usage" and "doesn't shift pride at all." At the very least the description needs to be shifted a bit because the PC even comments on it being good for teaching humility. Something as simple as being taught maid work decreases it by 1.

Be quite interested in seeing the reasoning.

*edit*

In general, I feel like insanely prideful slaves are kinda... Too common? I dunno, maybe it's just me but I feel like that'd at least be partially tied to what the rest of stats were with a weighting towards average or even slightly below average.

Huh, wait, the one BELOW that reduced her pride by a decent amount. Maybe it didn't work before because it was too far below her 'guilt'? Still something to be said for the description being off but I guess there's little that can be done. Just noticed the podium reduced it by a decent chunk with 2 demerits. She had 5 before due to the spell.
Ah yeah okay, I see, it was due to mismatch. That does make the spell significantly less useful than I thought, hmm. It'd be nice if higher ranking casters could tune their stuff or something.

On another note, what's the point of the pain and pleasure ones for the merits?

 

[Alkaid_]

It would be nice if you could have your assistant take part in competitions directly. You can get them to without it even costing a single spark anyway so it's pure busywork.

(Store slave in cryo -> Swap assistant into slave -> enter tournament -> swap back -> take slave out of cryo.)

In general spells feel kind of eh. Maybe it's just because I don't know how to use them. Why is the seal spell over twice as expensive as getting the dude to do a tattoo? It restores a bit of energy and implies it will remove a pregnancy and help track down a runaway (that doesn't seem like a particularly useful feature to begin with.) As far as I can perceive the only reason I'd ever actually use it is roleplay purposes and not because it does something useful. One-time energy restore 'aint worth 15 sparks. Maybe a permanent cap improvement of half a store, or quicker awareness gain (relative to regular brand), then I'd not feel bad about wasting money when I use it.

Or maybe runaway slaves are actually a huge risk and I've just been lucky. Still, it'd be nice to have the energy restore eliminated and the price dropped down to match the tattoo'd brand, or to something like 15. (I don't think it's likely to be able to use both the energy restore AND the tracking function because a slave that runs away probably isn't doing anything you order them to, unless you use mind control which is an additional investment and can cause despair.)

 

[brlolilover]

In general spells feel kind of eh. Maybe it's just because I don't know how to use them. Why is the seal spell over twice as expensive as getting the dude to do a tattoo? It restores a bit of energy and implies it will remove a pregnancy

It'll remove pregnancy and illness, so if she has either the brand's cost is basically zero.

One-time energy restore 'aint worth 15 sparks. Maybe a permanent cap improvement of half a store, or quicker awareness gain (relative to regular brand), then I'd not feel bad about wasting money when I use it.

As far as I know the magical brand gives extra habit every day, in addition to the regurlar brand (regular brand does not give awareness, only habit)

But also why are you penny pinching with a spell that requires S+ in magic?

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

So I sent a slave to the corner with bondage when she had 1 punishment, and then after it she... suddenly had 2 positive merits?

Try hovering your cursor over her merit/guilt. When a slave who is feeling merit then does something and feels guilty about it, it doesn't always eliminate the merit, it can simply reduce it. Of course, if she feels guilty, rewarding her would send the wrong message, so guilt needs to be addressed first. But, if she still feels some merit after being punished, you can still reward her (then or later).

Also it kinda feels like it's impossible to bring excitement down even with mid-tier libido. And just through trying, you end up with capped out libido anyway.

Depends on skills of master/slave in the specific activity chosen. It's definitely possible to overdo it with sex with a well-trained slave/assistant.

Attempting these D- slave contracts for the guild and just reloading after 10 days because they keep foisting ultra-willful spoiled girls that don't respond to anything positive onto me. XD
I must have lucked out on my first purchase... She was really easy to work with.

Slaves with higher base attributes are generally more resistant at first, but they can more easily reach higher ratings once you get past that initial obedience hurdle and can start training them. The main challenge with each new slave is to build enough fear, habit, taming and/or acceptance to raise her obedience to the point where you can find some training that she will accept and perform well enough to not feel guilty. Once you have that, she'll usually become more obedient over time, as long as you keep her mood up.

Be sure to match punishment levels to her feelings of guilt and not exceed her merit with rewards or give her too many rewards or punishments each day. Only deviate from those guidelines when you know what you're doing. If you didn't know, you can hover over the small triangle in the lower left of the menu buttons for a tooltip that indicates the level of the punishment or reward.[/QUOTE]

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

In general, I feel like insanely prideful slaves are kinda... Too common? I dunno, maybe it's just me but I feel like that'd at least be partially tied to what the rest of stats were with a weighting towards average or even slightly below average.

The random background (where they come from, what they did there, etc.) applies modifiers to some stats.

Ah yeah okay, I see, it was due to mismatch. That does make the spell significantly less useful than I thought, hmm. It'd be nice if higher ranking casters could tune their stuff or something.

If she feels high guilt and you pick a lower-level punishment, the implication is that you are letting her off easy. Her guilt level should be understood as an indication of what level of punishment she is expecting from you. If you're dealing with a delicate situation like a depressed slave close to mindbreak, under-punishing can be a useful tactic, but if you do it consistently, you will undermine the slave's obedience.

The sententia veritas spell is more to allow for higher-tier rewards than higher-tier punishments. The main reason to use the spell for punishments would be if you're in a hurry to build up her fear, and you have a spell specifically for that purpose with tremendio. If you don't use sententia veritas, the slave's guilt level will vary naturally (though it will take some time to ramp up to higher levels without being artificially boosted), so you'll have a chance to use a variety of different punishment levels.

On another note, what's the point of the pain and pleasure ones for the merits?

Not sure what you mean.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

It would be nice if you could have your assistant take part in competitions directly. You can get them to without it even costing a single spark anyway so it's pure busywork.

(Store slave in cryo -> Swap assistant into slave -> enter tournament -> swap back -> take slave out of cryo.)

Agreed. It's something we've discussed for the longer-term roadmap ... being able to have multiple slaves (+ assistant) "active" at the same time, accompanying the slaver on outings and participating in whatever activities are being done.

In general spells feel kind of eh. Maybe it's just because I don't know how to use them. Why is the seal spell over twice as expensive as getting the dude to do a tattoo? It restores a bit of energy and implies it will remove a pregnancy and help track down a runaway (that doesn't seem like a particularly useful feature to begin with.) As far as I can perceive the only reason I'd ever actually use it is roleplay purposes and not because it does something useful. One-time energy restore 'aint worth 15 sparks. Maybe a permanent cap improvement of half a store, or quicker awareness gain (relative to regular brand), then I'd not feel bad about wasting money when I use it.

Or maybe runaway slaves are actually a huge risk and I've just been lucky. Still, it'd be nice to have the energy restore eliminated and the price dropped down to match the tattoo'd brand, or to something like 15. (I don't think it's likely to be able to use both the energy restore AND the tracking function because a slave that runs away probably isn't doing anything you order them to, unless you use mind control which is an additional investment and can cause despair.)

Suffice to say, as you continue playing, I think you will find that the spell is well worth it...

 

[Alkaid_]

Spoiler: Brloli

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Hmm, I see, that makes me feel a lot better about it. As to the penny-pinching, it's less about 'penny-pinching' and more about 'why is this much more expensive than something that does basically the same thing?'

Think of it this way: If you had a "create nice clothing" spell that let you make a sundress for your slave as a reward, and it cost 10 sparks while making a magic sundress, and let's say restores 1 energy point... Why would you use it when you can just give her a regular sundress that does the same thing for half the price? Are 5 sparks worth 1 energy + the opportunity cost of having an appropriate rank in magic? Would you ever feel like you wanted to use that spell? If what you say about it building habit faster than the regular brand, then that's good enough.

 

[Alkaid_]

@ImperatorAugustusTertius

Thanks for the replies! Not everything needs a direct response since it's just some nice info for me, so I'll just pick quotes where I have something to say in return. Do note that I'm a 'newbie' in the sense I haven't played the game a great deal, but at the same time my perspective might be useful to you on what someone who isn't as intimately familiar with the game's function might think.

Slaves with higher base attributes are generally more resistant at first, but they can more easily reach higher ratings once you get past that initial obedience hurdle and can start training them. The main challenge with each new slave is to build enough fear, habit, taming and/or acceptance to raise her obedience to the point where you can find some training that she will accept and perform well enough to not feel guilty. Once you have that, she'll usually become more obedient over time, as long as you keep her mood up.

One thing I've observed at least in my creation of two B+ slaves (and a few attempts at a D- guild contract) is that at about the C- level, raising a slave becomes incredibly easy and all difficulty transforms to pure time investment as they now like you enough to generally be totally obedient and rack up devotion and awareness as you train their core skills. I'm not really sure what could/should be done here, but I'd be interested in seeing a world where it's much easier to get slaves to the C area, and then progressively much harder after that. Maybe attribute influences beyond only Beauty. A+/S+ slaves should be incredibly difficult and rare, perhaps needing specific traits or exotic features. (Where are my animal-ear girls, demonesses, elves? Why is everyone in Eternal Rome human? XD Or maybe they're just really quite rare, which would be good!)

Or, to put it another way, F- to D-feels harder than any other portion of the raising process and where most of the gameplay is. The rest just takes time. (Although some of the more out-there shit like Xenophil I think I remember being mentioned as understandably very hard to do, I haven't tried.)

Agreed. It's something we've discussed for the longer-term roadmap ... being able to have multiple slaves (+ assistant) "active" at the same time, accompanying the slaver on outings and participating in whatever activities are being done.

I feel like that could also lead into far more things than just that, which will make it quite an exciting change. Just as a baseline I think the one-slot system probably limits you a bit on what you can really do. That being said, I think the one thing the game is lacking at the moment is special events and character interactions. Isabella's thing is cool, but she also ceases to exist after joining you. Might be nice for her to have additional comments or things happen, y'know. Even something as simple as commenting on her treatment eight decades after she joins if you've kept her around. Eternal Rome is a city that feels enormous, but also nearly entirely dead, though I understand if that's perhaps the intention. The special rewards that have been postulated for actually fulfilling some of the shopkeeper's extremely specific slave desires could be quite a good avenue for that.

 

[yasyasyosino]

Hi could it be possible to get a rough guide on the whole Moo/Cow mod?

I have an S+ cow but she is mind broken... I tried to save her sanity (was A before being sent to barn) without avail and I think the problem was the cow equipment that I had her put on before sending her into the barn. She loses stamina fairly quickly and I spend so much spark on the cow feed every decade (which seemed to slow the stamina decrease compared to fiend cum). I also find that unless I impregnate her every day, her milk output drastically slows down.

I've been looking all over the wiki and thread to no avail.

I am also a bit confused about the pigs for slaughter part, like am I supposed to put barely trained slaves as pigs and just keep feeding them?

 

[Alkaid_]

Slaves having extreme health variation based on their immutable age is honestly obnoxious, and it's even worse that I don't believe it's even mentioned anywhere so you won't find out except through observation, though forgive me if I'm wrong. Even a difference of 10 can be large in a close battle so you're basically never going to want to try and make anything other than a Milf into a gladiatrix unless you want extra frustration/difficulty. Might rectify that in the code for my own game since I think I've found the section.

Milfs having a nonsensical buff is also where the Slaver somehow being a worse fighter comes from in the roadmap I guess.

Also, was I misunderstanding in the Bull Ring doubling your health in combat? It might increase your stamina but my health remains 50.

 

[qwertyu12359]

Milfs having a nonsensical buff is also where the Slaver somehow being a worse fighter comes from in the roadmap I guess.

Ah so you too have this problem!

ImperatorAugustusTertius was asking me to double-check a few months ago and I got submerged by other tasks in-between.

Yes, it's incredibly bullshit. On my playthrough I was easily beating training girls in the colloseum barehanded, as long as I was fighting with a barely trained slave. But a maxed out slaver, armed and armored, I had to savescum to survive the fights.

But honestly I'm not sure I'll be able to do the maths myself in order to balance it. So I will delegate

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

Slaves having extreme health variation based on their immutable age is honestly obnoxious, and it's even worse that I don't believe it's even mentioned anywhere so you won't find out except through observation, though forgive me if I'm wrong. Even a difference of 10 can be large in a close battle so you're basically never going to want to try and make anything other than a Milf into a gladiatrix unless you want extra frustration/difficulty. Might rectify that in the code for my own game since I think I've found the section.

Milfs having a nonsensical buff is also where the Slaver somehow being a worse fighter comes from in the roadmap I guess.

Also, was I misunderstanding in the Bull Ring doubling your health in combat? It might increase your stamina but my health remains 50.

Chimaera gem boosts health. Not bull ring.

Slave health in battle is based on endurance attribute, (lack of) wounds, and age. Mature get +10 compared to young (so at S+ endurance, young has 50, mature has 60), and L slaves get 2/3 of young. So yes, L slaves have 1/3 less health in combat, but that's to be expected really... And, even so, it's entirely possible for them to become arena champions, though it can take some luck (and armor helps).

As for slaver comparison, if he isn't wearing the chimaera gem, his health is equivalent to a young slave (based on his strength attribute). He doesn't get the mature slave's baseline +10, but if he wears the chimaera gem, he gets +10 and an additional bonus based on his aura, which gets bonuses from other attributes, artifacts and equipment. You could argue that he should have the +10 in his baseline formula even without the chimaera gem, to be on par with a mature slave, but, you know ... he doesn't have as much "padding" ...

Anyway, with the chimaera gem he comes out well ahead.

Yes, it's incredibly bullshit. On my playthrough I was easily beating training girls in the colloseum barehanded, as long as I was fighting with a barely trained slave. But a maxed out slaver, armed and armored, I had to savescum to survive the fights.

Specifics please. Is your slaver losing fights because he is running out of health or one of the other combat stats (stamina, morale)? Which training opponent were you fighting, with which armor and weapons?

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

Hi could it be possible to get a rough guide on the whole Moo/Cow mod?

I have an S+ cow but she is mind broken... I tried to save her sanity (was A before being sent to barn) without avail and I think the problem was the cow equipment that I had her put on before sending her into the barn. She loses stamina fairly quickly and I spend so much spark on the cow feed every decade (which seemed to slow the stamina decrease compared to fiend cum). I also find that unless I impregnate her every day, her milk output drastically slows down.

I wrote a treatise on this in the dev thread here, take a look. Cow gear doesn't affect her temperament or nature. If she's losing stamina fast, maybe she's ill? As for impregnation frequency, your slaver hasn't maxed his sex skill yet?

I am also a bit confused about the pigs for slaughter part, like am I supposed to put barely trained slaves as pigs and just keep feeding them?

Yes. You can slaughter them manually or delegate the task to your farmhand using the main menu at home, under the business options.

 

[qwertyu12359]

Specifics please. Is your slaver losing fights because he is running out of health or one of the other combat stats (stamina, morale)? Which training opponent were you fighting, with which armor and weapons?

Haha I'm sorry to be the one to give you the less detailed reports, of all people

What shocks me though is that you don't instantly see what I'm talking about.

But nevermind, whenever I'm able to, I'll give you a full report on it in the dev' thread

As for slaver comparison, if he isn't wearing the chimaera gem, his health is equivalent to a young slave (based on his strength attribute). He doesn't get the mature slave's baseline +10, but if he wears the chimaera gem, he gets +10 and an additional bonus based on his aura, which gets bonuses from other attributes, artifacts and equipment. You could argue that he should have the +10 in his baseline formula even without the chimaera gem, to be on par with a mature slave, but, you know ... he doesn't have as much "padding" ...

Maybe he could have a +20/+15 baseline because he is a male I believe a 18yo man can take more punches in the face than a woman of same constitution, even if she's a milf. More endurance too. More strength, more everything. It should be felt that the slaver has a natural advantage other his slaves in the arena.

The fogs is here to pose the real challenge for him. Not to say that the colloseum should be a breeze, but it should be because the slaves are better trained and have better technique/skills than him.

Edit: since this is a balance thing that is a bit systematic, we can postpone thinking about it for 2.3

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

Sure, we can do that (slaver baseline health increase). As for the slaver losing spars, I haven't noticed it myself (honestly, haven't tested it recently either), which is why I'm asking.