QSP Abandoned Jack-o-Nine-Tails [v2.2.3] [Old Huntsman + Community development]

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

I really feel like combat should be reworked. Combat in the fogs is never viable, even with a "strong" character. The only enemy you can ever actually win against is the group of cannibals, and even that is only sometimes. The weapons don't specify how strong they are or what damage type they have, and you do too little damage with most of your hits only doing 1 or at most 10. Choosing which defensive stance to use is just up to random chance since the enemies don't telegraph what type of attack they'll do. Plus the fact that every loss regardless of the type results in death just encourages save-scumming; It'd be better if it only happened sometimes or against certain enemies. Like if you lose vitality you return injured, if you lose stamina you return exhausted, or if you lose morale you return with a horrible lasting mood. Not saying it's the new developers fault; combat was always busted, but I hope it's made to be more enjoyable or fair.

Combat at the border of the Fogs is designed to be very challenging. The enemies show no mercy, so losing = game over. Run away in heavy armor? Good luck with that. Fight without heavy armor? Good luck with that.

Every single battle is winnable with less than optimal gear. Consistently, without save/reload, once you get the hang of it.

Elixirs are vital. Special techniques that can be learned at the colosseum are highly recommended - most of them apply an additional 2x damage multiplier. The chimaera gem makes combat easier because it boosts your vitality, reducing the frequency of needing healing balm. However, every single battle can be won without the chimaera gem.

Weapons have prices, do they not? Those prices are a strong indicator of relative effectiveness. The descriptions of the weapons also contain key information. Weapons that do morale damage (lash, whip, cattle prod) are poor choices for life or death battles.

Most enemies use only two attack colors or do less damage with one of the colors. Which defensive stance is best for each enemy is something you learn through experience. It also depends on your current debuffs and the enemy’s current buffs. Using the “defend” action to clear debuffs is sometimes the best move even though it does no damage.

To do more damage, stack buffs on yourself and debuffs on the enemy.

Your slaver should be able to win the top tier sparring matches at the arena before expecting to succeed at the Fogs. Sparring can raise the slaver’s strength to S+ and his combat skill to A+.

 

[passing_through]

I’m not seeing what people who have been having trouble are actually doing to have such difficulty. My guess is that they are confusing lack of diligence/motivation with lack of obedience. A slave who is being abused and feels hopeless is going to perform poorly even if they try to do what they are told.

After finishing I felt I needed to add this to preface the absolute WALL of text. This was obviously a word salad that may be much longer than it needed to be but since you said you didnt understand the problems that some posters are having with the system other than vague complaints I felt I'd at least tell you my experience to the best of my ability.

Cant speak for others but when I first started to play I did what I usually did when I played years ago. Get clothes ready for the job they were probably going to get trained for unless training led to a special trait for another (wouldnt let them wear it till they would do simple tasks though), get a collar that didnt negatively affect a major stat like the steel one, may or may not brand on day 1, then go home and explain their situation. Then depending on their personality and the trainers stats it really felt like it was difficulty appropriate. A high level trainer, or maxed like in my tests, would usually be able to get at least a neutral or 1 positive result on something as simple as basic household chores barring maybe the more proudful slaves. If not then with a single punishment or two they would then produce the same low, but still visible, results and the more prideful ones would be the potentially even week's worth of a challenge as they had to be and the punishments reflected it. But I never once was able to recreate the same thing in the over 4 hour tests I did when I started playing again, even with the most docile slaves (unless they were already mindbroken with "Sanity" to begin with), and it just really shouldnt be that difficult for literally every single person as people are typically pretty obedient especially when thrust into a society that isnt shy about its cannibalism (namely of slave meat) staring you in the face when you head to the local market or the beings that are presented in front of you at your auction and knowing what they would have done with you as they are not shy with shouting it out.

When I eventually moved on into trying different techniques that werent overly "spoiling" (not the game mechanic but in a immersive character decision way) like undeserved comfortable clothes on day 1 or repetitive tedious exclamations like using threaten or encourage every single day things would go into a Sanity spiral. Slaves that didnt have at least 4+ hearts would fail, need to get punished, fail again, leading to more punishment, and since theyre certainly not doing any chores whatsoever the player must make food, clean, and bathe themselves so youre likely out of hearts or getting close to it by then so you have to end. This would continue until either Sanity pops up or they finally begin to complete tasks in a positive way but hardly at all and at that point pride/nature/temperament are likely close to being near Sanity levels as the repeated decision on refusing to sweep a floor or be thrown on the street in a world that clearly thinks less of them than dirt is just too hard of a concession to make apparently. So then theres an attempt to send them to the hot spring or other rewards to raise stats to get out of or away from Sanity. But then they would become spoiled as they didnt deserve these rewards for subpar results making them once again refuse completing tasks leading to more punishments and back into mind broken status. I honestly had no idea that the rape options even worked as punishments in the game as I had never had to result to trying it out of frustration in prior versions.

After another poster had told me they could do it on day 1, I then finally dropped any and all attempts to play as I felt was realistic in the situation and treated it as a numbers game. Immediate branding, comfy clothes, repetitive but apparently now necessary daily threaten and encourage lines, and daily aura strengthening spells even though my stats are maxed so this really shouldnt be necessary, and they would now complete basic tasks within a day or two as long as I never went away from that formula for a week or two for obedience to grow and finally allowing for nonregimented play. But thats boring for me and far to "meta" as I was told to adapt to in relation to the inarguably more abusable yet still (as I believe it to be) more realistic older versions to have been. Now again this isnt an attempt to rag on the people working on it, in my previous posts Ive said you can tell that theres a real attempt at trying to get around older cheesy strats and and to coax people into the magic and alchemy side of things by having to look at a slaves aura during training but before I never needed to put a single level in magician in my normal custom games as the interaction with the slave felt real enough to gauge what was needed as you played. Now it feels artificial and not reflective of the stats shown to the player as they look at the trainers stats and to make a training plan appropriate to their level, but instead just a simple numbers game thats just as abusable if you choose the "correct" meta choices. But thats just how it feels like to me.

 

[qwertyu12359]

A high level trainer, or maxed like in my tests, would usually be able to get at least a neutral or 1 positive result on something as simple as basic household chores barring maybe the more proudful slaves. If not then with a single punishment or two they would then produce the same low, but still visible, results and the more prideful ones would be the potentially even week's worth of a challenge as they had to be and the punishments reflected it. But I never once was able to recreate the same thing in the over 4 hour tests I did when I started playing again, even with the most docile slaves

This is not "basic", this is slavery. Kidnap a former CEO of a multi-billion dollar company and order her to clean your house, she'll probably tell you to get bent.

I'm not even sure a slave in 2.1 would obey cleaning simply because you put a steel collar on her and explain situation... But let's admit that, maybe your slave thought she was too smart to clean and you should have tried something else more in line with her personality.

If you don't want to clean or do the chores yourself, either pick yourself an ideal potential maid, or have an assistant. But this is the proof that the system allows for gameplay variations; while you were expecting your "previous version routine strategy" to work, you have an unexpected obstacle.

and it just really shouldnt be that difficult for literally every single person as people are typically pretty obedient especially when thrust into a society that isnt shy about its cannibalism (namely of slave meat)

That's up to you to present them this side of reality; if we strip that from the player, we impoverish the gameplay.

When I eventually moved on into trying different techniques that werent overly "spoiling" (not the game mechanic but in a immersive character decision way) like undeserved comfortable clothes on day 1 or repetitive tedious exclamations like using threaten or encourage every single day things would go into a Sanity spiral. Slaves that didnt have at least 4+ hearts would fail, need to get punished, fail again, leading to more punishment, and since theyre certainly not doing any chores whatsoever the player must make food, clean, and bathe themselves so youre likely out of hearts or getting close to it by then so you have to end. This would continue until either Sanity pops up or they finally begin to complete tasks in a positive way but hardly at all and at that point pride/nature/temperament are likely close to being near Sanity levels as the repeated decision on refusing to sweep a floor or be thrown on the street in a world that clearly thinks less of them than dirt is just too hard of a concession to make apparently. So then theres an attempt to send them to the hot spring or other rewards to raise stats to get out of or away from Sanity. But then they would become spoiled as they didnt deserve these rewards for subpar results making them once again refuse completing tasks leading to more punishments and back into mind broken status. I honestly had no idea that the rape options even worked as punishments in the game as I had never had to result to trying it out of frustration in prior versions.

We haven't changed how Sanity appeared in 2.2 as far as I remember. If anything, we've made it easier to deal with an insane slave than before. So, I advise you to play with 2.1 (or 1.7.5 to be sure) alongside 2.2 and compare your playthroughs to make sure there's not some bad habit in your routine that is plunging your slave into losing enough of her attributes and fall into mind broken status. Maybe you didn't pay attention and your slave had close to insane stats when you bought her at the market.

Ah and rape acting as a punishment is a 2.2 new feature It didn't use to clear guilt.

After another poster had told me they could do it on day 1, I then finally dropped any and all attempts to play as I felt was realistic in the situation and treated it as a numbers game. Immediate branding, comfy clothes, repetitive but apparently now necessary daily threaten and encourage lines, and daily aura strengthening spells even though my stats are maxed so this really shouldnt be necessary, and they would now complete basic tasks within a day or two as long as I never went away from that formula for a week or two for obedience to grow and finally allowing for nonregimented play. But thats boring for me and far to "meta" as I was told to adapt to in relation to the inarguably more abusable yet still (as I believe it to be) more realistic older versions to have been. Now again this isnt an attempt to rag on the people working on it, in my previous posts Ive said you can tell that theres a real attempt at trying to get around older cheesy strats and and to coax people into the magic and alchemy side of things by having to look at a slaves aura during training but before I never needed to put a single level in magician in my normal custom games as the interaction with the slave felt real enough to gauge what was needed as you played. Now it feels artificial and not reflective of the stats shown to the player as they look at the trainers stats and to make a training plan appropriate to their level, but instead just a simple numbers game thats just as abusable if you choose the "correct" meta choices. But thats just how it feels like to me.

I gave you my method, to show you it was possible to get past the first obedience threshold. There are countless of other strategies, this one I found myself, but in guides they handle things differently (some players try to maximize taming from the starts, other give 5 fear, other build devotion from day one, etc.)

You can't complain it feels mechanical when you apply a working method ^^ You just got stripped from the pleasure of finding it on your own.

But be mindful of the common interest. You didn't complete your first 4 hours of slaves with your instinct; well neither did I when I played 1.7.3. That doesn't mean we have made only one strategy viable.

Pay extra attention to what you said... you didn't feel the need to use magic before because it was possible without. Now imagine people that used magic in previous version; there was no challenge for them at all! There were so many OP strategies and we couldn't just delete every elements that made part of the game (clothing, magic, potions, etc.).
--------------------------
But as far as I'm dismissing your criticizm, I value it. Please let's debate more about it and prove your point against my resistance. But in my mind, your concerns about the balance between difficulty and fun of the game is biased by your own contingent experience as a player (that had his habits, that followed advices, etc.) and does not reflect the objective state of the game.

But I may be biased similarly as to not seeing the flaws of the system I co-designed.

 

[Storm4n]

Wish there was a way to raise slave stats slowly but steadily, like if a slave isn't being harshly or cruelly punished and is having a decent life with the occasional yelling because you forbid masturbation they should slowly gain temperament/empathy/nature.

Other than that you're stuck at waiting for them to reach a decent score you can reward them and send them to the gardens/golden cage/hotsprings or win gladiatrix fights... like if devotion is capped they should slowly nurture themselves back steadily since it's been months since they were put in cages or beaten everyday.

That way you encourage players to keep those slaves for longer periods if Nature/Temperament/Empathy are reachable within maybe 2 months of treating a slave well and caring for them so you get to sell an S+ slave every 2 months max instead of what I do which is weed through low temperament/nature/empathy slaves since those are impossible to train.

I mean indeed intelligence should get time to develop with study, and physical form requires training and you can expect those to raise like that but usually physical form raises if she's being given rest and decent food but the others I mentioned don't.

 

[passing_through]

This is not "basic", this is slavery. Kidnap a former CEO of a multi-billion dollar company and order her to clean your house, she'll probably tell you to get bent.

I'm not even sure a slave in 2.1 would obey cleaning simply because you put a steel collar on her and explain situation... But let's admit that, maybe your slave thought she was too smart to clean and you should have tried something else more in line with her personality.

If you don't want to clean or do the chores yourself, either pick yourself an ideal potential maid, or have an assistant. But this is the proof that the system allows for gameplay variations; while you were expecting your "previous version routine strategy" to work, you have an unexpected obstacle.


That's up to you to present them this side of reality; if we strip that from the player, we impoverish the gameplay.

Oh no I played way before 2.(anything). Its probably been at least 2 years since the last time I had played and even when Id come back to the game I'd still play on some older version that I had years prior to that. But again that was years ago and am now on a new computer with that old file long since deleted so now Ive jumped into this newer version. Some things may have been changed long before this though so maybe its not this update specifically but a series of them. That being said this former CEO of a million dollar company is likely an example of the prideful and temperamental type not some average "daughter of a (enter parent career here)" type that you see a lot in the auctions as well. And if anything Id argue that an intelligent and mentally strong individual would connect the dots they find themselves in and choose minor obedience in exchange for life and a potential out once they formulate a plan.

The world is presented to them from the second they are put on that auction stage and likely the untold time they existed in their pens before then but for the sake of argument lets just say they popped into existence in new rome the day of their auction. On that first day they are traversing streets (naked mind you yet not nearly as angry as when you do it as punishment awkwardly enough, didnt mean to tangent just always thought that was weird) surrounded with who knows how many different aliens and mythological beings likely some being the very type that just declared their wish to murder/eat them in their auction minutes ago. They get to see meat being sold that is unapologetically human flesh (which is why I always go vegetarian when I play) and all that paired with the "explain their situation" seemed to give a correct result if the text said that your words were understood in the actions they would willingly complete after the fact. But now even if they are apparently understood they still choose unreasonable stubbornness over death for minor chores. I'm not saying they need to accept everything, or even most things like any career profession or sexual acts without a gradual progression into it, but the bare minimum that can be asked for is refused when faced with certain death (some examples of which they have seen with their very eyes like when you might pick up groceries on day 1 at the meat market) and thats just not how slavery has worked historically. More importantly, in areas that did NOT have vampires, werewolves, and blood soaked butchers sharpening their cleavers.

We haven't changed how Sanity appeared in 2.2 as far as I remember. If anything, we've made it easier to deal with an insane slave than before. So, I advise you to play with 2.1 (or 1.7.5 to be sure) alongside 2.2 and compare your playthroughs to make sure there's not some bad habit in your routine that is plunging your slave into losing enough of her attributes and fall into mind broken status. Maybe you didn't pay attention and your slave had close to insane stats when you bought her at the market.

Ah and rape acting as a punishment is a 2.2 new feature It didn't use to clear guilt.

Sorry but I cant give a response to this as I dont know what version I had previously to compare this or 1.7.5 to, but that is a very good addition.

I gave you my method, to show you it was possible to get past the first obedience threshold. There are countless of other strategies, this one I found myself, but in guides they handle things differently (some players try to maximize taming from the starts, other give 5 fear, other build devotion from day one, etc.)

You can't complain it feels mechanical when you apply a working method ^^ You just got stripped from the pleasure of finding it on your own.

I dont think thats correct. The post I think youre referring to had you specifically say you didnt want to say the exact actions as to not rob readers of finding their own ways to success, I could be wrong but Im not trying to beat anyone down or win an argument as this is just me giving my opinion so if Im wrong on that then I apologize. But yes I do think its mechanical when a gameplay mechanic gets in the way of more realistic interactions.

Pay extra attention to what you said... you didn't feel the need to use magic before because it was possible without. Now imagine people that used magic in previous version; there was no challenge for them at all! There were so many OP strategies and we couldn't just delete every elements that made part of the game (clothing, magic, potions, etc.).
--------------------------
But as far as I'm dismissing your criticizm, I value it. Please let's debate more about it and prove your point against my resistance. But in my mind, your concerns about the balance between difficulty and fun of the game is biased by your own contingent experience as a player (that had his habits, that followed advices, etc.) and does not reflect the objective state of the game.

But I may be biased similarly as to not seeing the flaws of the system I co-designed.

I dont think theres a need to continue it really, Ive just been airing what I felt were problems I was seeing in game and I think we just have different philosophies in general. I put more value in a more lenient game to reflect what I believe is a more realistic interaction between slaver and slave, even though this did lead things to things being far more easy in general even at the highest difficulty and took entire mechanics of the game out if players chose not to use them. And I think you value a more balanced system that allows for a fuller gameplay experience even at the cost of interactive believability between slaver and slave within the context of the world they find themselves in.

But yeah I totally agree with the potential biases youve pointed out. The version I played was likely so much older than even the 1.7.5 you mentioned and would likely be as if youd put someone used to playing WoW classic into a time machine and put Mists of Panderia in front of them, the complaints theyd make would likely be coated with nostalgia and a break from a comfortable zone. And while I dont know just how long and hard youve been working on the game I do know how crafting an experience for someone to enjoy yet see only half of your work go appreciated (aka the magic system in older versions) and untouched can make you try to coax them into use potentially at the expense of player agency.

 

[Jman9]

realistic interaction between slaver and slave
at the expense of player agency.

I don't think the issue is player agency. If anything, more viable mechanics give you more agency.

Your issue is 'immersion', or 'realism'. Since the game is probably not going to change all that much, think of it this way: all the slaves who 'break' quickly and easily get processed by others and without any need for trainers like yourself. You are only given the harder cases.

 

[passing_through]

You are only given the harder cases.

I disagree. The auction is never stated to house failed slaves that require such a skilled guild member's touch, you're simply a member of a reputable guild thats known to get results. When the player bids the auctioneer states that with a member of the guild bidding the slave surely must be worth the price and continues on as normal with such notable NPCs such as a "pimply teenager" putting money in as well. And if these auctions really were for the more professional trainers then the assumption is that theses slaves are valued alive and trained not as food or a quickly disposed of toy as many other bidders say during their bids but as seen during the auction they are treated and sold as such.

And putting in more mechanics or strengthening those already in the game gives agency only if its not required for play but is merely another tool the player can call upon, also specifically in my posts its in relation to a previous version. Obviously there needs to be some sort of base line otherwise you dont have a game its only imagination so my complaint isnt that mechanics=bad its that unnecessary ones make things unfun or immersion breaking for the purposes of game design at the cost of player immersion (like in some horror games where the player can only sprint for 5-10 seconds before becoming fatigued, this isnt because its realistic but to make the player workaround the games stamina economy to plan for escapes when it comes to escaping 1-hit game over enemies chasing them). For example if an rpg lets the player use magic, sneak, OR brute force you are not giving more agency when in a future patch or sequel the game makes you use magic, sneak, brute force, AND speech. While the latter may add another feature the former did not enforce its, or the other mechanics, usage. In the case of the game as it is now its the necessary usage of the auspex spell to view previously present but not nearly as crucial stats such as guilt or fear to properly judge your planning which wasnt needed in prior versions as the slaves seemed to react relatively normal in relation to the world around them. Yes maybe it was too easy and things like sexual and career training needed to be harder to attain, I agree 120% with anyone saying that needed to be done, but like my previous posts have stated it shouldnt take a beating, a man of rare levels of charisma and physique, and some mind reading to get most people in these slaves situations to sweep your floor or do some dishes.

 

[qwertyu12359]

To make things clear, I don't value game balance over believability. I value both equally, which means I won't entirely sacrifice one for the other. But in a way or another, it's for the best; like a football video game feels realistic but the matches last 5 minutes and yet you can score 2 or 3 goals.

But anyway, now that we're clear that I value realism, the question is to be sure that your solutions are more realistic than the current game. And I haven't been convinced so. You often refer to the memory of your gameplay from an old version as if it was the staple of intuitiveness and realism, but without concrete propositions and comparisons we are left in the blur.

We can't just "make the game more easy". Maybe we can give some points of awareness or taming to some slaves when you get them from the auction, implying they have been already made obedient by the setting they are in... but I'm not immediately convinced it'd be the right solution for realism.

Edit: I seem to understand your issue is with "basic tasks" like cooking, cleaning. You want that to be easier, you don't want to have to punish your slave too much for her to be able to do tasks you judge as basic and more wishable than getting raped by monsters or butchered alive. However, cooking lessons are already one of the easiest tasks in terms of obedience requirement, it's available at -8 obedience, not taking into accounts her personality that might make it even easier (or possibly harder). If we make it available by default -10, there would be no phase of total rebellion, yet the game in its descriptions would imply that she's not ready to do anything for you at the time.

I also repeat that it's up to you to threaten her that if she doesn't want to clean, she'll be skin alive. Do you really think the default difficulty mode should offer no initial resistance to cooking? If less, how much less? Doesn't it happen soon enough to be realistic? I think it does, personally, I think it's even easier than real life would be.

I fail to see it being more realistic if made easier, and with the added cost of making the game become unrewarding and challenge-less in its default difficulty. It would make the game a trivial routine just like you fear; with no initial disobedience on top of that.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

Wish there was a way to raise slave stats slowly but steadily, like if a slave isn't being harshly or cruelly punished and is having a decent life with the occasional yelling because you forbid masturbation they should slowly gain temperament/empathy/nature.

Temperament rises with orgasms, among other things.
Empathy rises with silence rule and no orgasms rule when followed, among other things.
Nature does not rise passively but there are several ways to raise it without rewards.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

After finishing I felt I needed to add this to preface the absolute WALL of text. This was obviously a word salad that may be much longer than it needed to be but since you said you didnt understand the problems that some posters are having with the system other than vague complaints I felt I'd at least tell you my experience to the best of my ability.

Thanks.

Cant speak for others but when I first started to play I did what I usually did when I played years ago. Get clothes ready for the job they were probably going to get trained for unless training led to a special trait for another (wouldnt let them wear it till they would do simple tasks though), get a collar that didnt negatively affect a major stat like the steel one, may or may not brand on day 1, then go home and explain their situation.

A reasonable approach.

Then depending on their personality and the trainers stats it really felt like it was difficulty appropriate. A high level trainer, or maxed like in my tests, would usually be able to get at least a neutral or 1 positive result on something as simple as basic household chores barring maybe the more proudful slaves. If not then with a single punishment or two they would then produce the same low, but still visible, results and the more prideful ones would be the potentially even week's worth of a challenge as they had to be and the punishments reflected it. But I never once was able to recreate the same thing in the over 4 hour tests I did when I started playing again, even with the most docile slaves (unless they were already mindbroken with "Sanity" to begin with), and it just really shouldnt be that difficult for literally every single person as people are typically pretty obedient especially when thrust into a society that isnt shy about its cannibalism (namely of slave meat) staring you in the face when you head to the local market or the beings that are presented in front of you at your auction and knowing what they would have done with you as they are not shy with shouting it out.

I just started a custom game with maxed slaver stats and obtained the following slave from the market (the first one offered):



Normal difficulty. This slave is Willful, Clever, Lively, and Proud. Look at the text below her rules - her psychological state is very much against obedience at the moment. This slave started with 1 point of spoil, too, making her even more inclined to disobedience. This is how I dressed her:



This is sub-optimal. You could also give her a hijab and rubber gloves to boost her cooking more. Explained her position, then tried to give her a cooking lesson. She refused. Punished her with a verbal chastisement. Tried cooking lesson again, refused, punished with a slipper spanking. She "fought back" but was too weak to actually start combat, so just got some bruises. Tried again, refused, punished with a naked walk. She was depressed and down to half a star of energy at that point. Put a tattoo brand on her along with the collar so she would be returned if she managed to escape. Encouraged her, sent her to take a bath (by herself) and ended the day. No rules assigned; she was already fearful from the punishments, so no risk of spoiling her. She ended the first day with a sullen mood. Day 2, encouraged her again, explained her position, asked her to cook, refused, 3 guilt. Punished with threaten tortures (psychological pressure). Cooking lesson again, refused, punished with living canvas (shaming). Cook lesson again, she agreed to do it, but her motivation wasn't high enough to gain any merit:



At this point, as is clearly stated in the screenshot, you need to focus on improving her motivation; she is no longer refusing outright.

So here we have a fairly resistant slave that has reached the obedience threshold for training cooking on the second day. She experienced a couple of verbal punishments, a couple of shaming punishments, being spanked one time, a couple of lectures and some words of encouragement, and had one night to think things over while sleeping on the floor (with a bedroll) and wearing a slave collar.

What would you change here?

When I eventually moved on into trying different techniques that werent overly "spoiling" (not the game mechanic but in a immersive character decision way) like undeserved comfortable clothes on day 1 or repetitive tedious exclamations like using threaten or encourage every single day things would go into a Sanity spiral. Slaves that didnt have at least 4+ hearts would fail, need to get punished, fail again, leading to more punishment, and since theyre certainly not doing any chores whatsoever the player must make food, clean, and bathe themselves so youre likely out of hearts or getting close to it by then so you have to end. This would continue until either Sanity pops up or they finally begin to complete tasks in a positive way but hardly at all and at that point pride/nature/temperament are likely close to being near Sanity levels as the repeated decision on refusing to sweep a floor or be thrown on the street in a world that clearly thinks less of them than dirt is just too hard of a concession to make apparently. So then theres an attempt to send them to the hot spring or other rewards to raise stats to get out of or away from Sanity. But then they would become spoiled as they didnt deserve these rewards for subpar results making them once again refuse completing tasks leading to more punishments and back into mind broken status.

As the tutorial clearly explains, one of the challenges in training is to build up obedience without letting the slave develop too much angst (despair). Letting the slave be in a bad mood for a few nights won't do much harm (and may reduce spoiling faster), but if you don't prioritize keeping their mood up, you're shooting yourself in the foot.

Undeserved clothes on day 1 is a matter of perspective. Does it serve your purposes for the slave to feel exposed, naked, and cold? If the consequence is depression, perhaps not. On the other hand, if the slave is spoiled and in a good mood, maybe you want to knock them off their high horse with some discomfort, in which case spending a night naked on the cold floor without a bedroll might be just the thing.

After another poster had told me they could do it on day 1, I then finally dropped any and all attempts to play as I felt was realistic in the situation and treated it as a numbers game. Immediate branding, comfy clothes, repetitive but apparently now necessary daily threaten and encourage lines, and daily aura strengthening spells even though my stats are maxed so this really shouldnt be necessary, and they would now complete basic tasks within a day or two as long as I never went away from that formula for a week or two for obedience to grow and finally allowing for nonregimented play. But thats boring for me and far to "meta" as I was told to adapt to in relation to the inarguably more abusable yet still (as I believe it to be) more realistic older versions to have been. Now again this isnt an attempt to rag on the people working on it, in my previous posts Ive said you can tell that theres a real attempt at trying to get around older cheesy strats and and to coax people into the magic and alchemy side of things by having to look at a slaves aura during training but before I never needed to put a single level in magician in my normal custom games as the interaction with the slave felt real enough to gauge what was needed as you played. Now it feels artificial and not reflective of the stats shown to the player as they look at the trainers stats and to make a training plan appropriate to their level, but instead just a simple numbers game thats just as abusable if you choose the "correct" meta choices. But thats just how it feels like to me.

Notice I didn't use Threaten and didn't cast any spells in my above example (no aura strengthening). The slaver also didn't have any clothing except the default worn clothes, which could've boosted his aura more. You don't need to read the aura (although it certainly helps) - you can get enough information by asking the slave questions, such as "what do you think of me?" and (once the slave is a bit more obedient) "how are you feeling?" to figure out what would be the best way to boost her mood.

 

[BupoTiling03-Retired]

I've managed to track down the issue with the Race/Ride's audio and have it working in my QSP. For some reason, $ride_start and ride_interface cannot see $toplay or $music or $music_now. With the audio backend fixed on the Linux builds, Linux users can use can temporarily fix the issue until the variable-scope issue is fixed by replacing:

if $music_now ! $music['ride']:
close $music_now
$music_now = $music['ride']
end
if sound_on = 1: play $music_now, music_volume

with:

if sound_on = 1: play 'content\snd\race_master.wav', music_volume, 'only, loop'

I don't know enough about QSP variable-scope to figure out why they are not accessible (from either $ride_start or ride_interface). Perhaps the $music_now and $toplay should be moved to a 'qsp db'?

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

I've managed to track down the issue with the Race/Ride's audio and have it working in my QSP. For some reason, $ride_start and ride_interface cannot see $toplay or $music or $music_now. With the audio backend fixed on the Linux builds, Linux users can use can temporarily fix the issue until the variable-scope issue is fixed by replacing:

if $music_now ! $music['ride']:
close $music_now
$music_now = $music['ride']
end
if sound_on = 1: play $music_now, music_volume

with:

if sound_on = 1: play 'content\snd\race_master.wav', music_volume, 'only, loop'

I don't know enough about QSP variable-scope to figure out why they are not accessible (from either $ride_start or ride_interface.

There is no variable scope. Everything is global. Variables can be cleared (killall) and have default values (zero or empty string) if cleared/uninitialized.

What you are claiming here therefore makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[BupoTiling03-Retired]

There is no variable scope. Everything is global. Variables can be cleared (killall) and have default values (zero or empty string) if cleared/uninitialized.

What you are claiming here therefore makes no sense whatsoever.

With a debug print showing $toplay and $music and $music_now having no values when the debug print is executed from those pages, kinda makes no sense for them to be clear but other vars not to be. *notices fight sequences don't loop audio because they're not being told 'loop' and sound will only 'repeat' in a fake way on each page navigation instead of sitting there for 3 minutes to verify loops *had debug prints on all audio backend calls* but at this point, seems like advice and hints are just being dismissed, not going to post anymore, whatever* Linux users enjoy the last build I posted. Might get around to cross-compiling for Windows, so you can all have a fixed audio-backend but eh, probably just going to unwatch at this point. Good luck all, well-meant.

 

[ImperatorAugustusTertius]

With a debug print showing $toplay and $music and $music_now having no values when the debug print is executed from those pages, kinda makes no sense for them to be clear but other vars not to be. *notices fight sequences don't loop audio because they're not being told 'loop' and sound will only 'repeat' in a fake way on each page navigation instead of sitting there for 3 minutes to verify loops *had debug prints on all audio backend calls* but at this point, seems like advice and hints are just being dismissed, not going to post anymore, whatever* Linux users enjoy the last build I posted. Might get around to cross-compiling for Windows, so you can all have a fixed audio-backend but eh, probably just going to unwatch at this point. Good luck all, well-meant.

Sounds like you took my last comment personally rather than as a statement of confusion as was intended.

 

[TheKingCobra]

Having had some time to invest into re-learning the game and finishing the updated tutorial (yes I'm that awesome) I can safely say that the game isn't more difficult than before. One of my limiting factors was merely to think of Mood/Obedience as two different things, but they both contribute to the end goal. As someone else in this thread I rarely used spells before, I have started now as they are, well, not necessary but expedient. I found that on normal difficulty I can usually churn out D+ slaves in roughly 5 days which I find is reasonable on what never really was a challenging difficulty.

I did find myself sometimes actually using the tutor/school system which is completely alien to me as I've never ever felt the need to use it in any previous version. Bearing in mind I skipped 2.1.

Regarding combat I understand where people are coming from but it really isn't that bad once you get the hang of it. Especially if you get the quest items. That said, you absolutely do need a well-trained slaver in both strength and combat ability, as well as potions for most enemies. I tend to find the fog pretty much optional, however. I feel like you're not really missing much if you don't go there to capture slaves, either for butchery or for a really quick buck. Or training them for a few days to make much more. I feel it's skippable.

Hardcore difficulty makes even low stat slaves fairly resistant, but on normal and easy difficulty you can usually get slaves to obey some things on the first day. That’s not much of a curve — more like a tiny step function. It’s hard to see how we could make that any easier without removing the concept of obedience thresholds entirely.

Agreed.

Wish there was a way to raise slave stats slowly but steadily, like if a slave isn't being harshly or cruelly punished and is having a decent life with the occasional yelling because you forbid masturbation they should slowly gain temperament/empathy/nature.

Other than that you're stuck at waiting for them to reach a decent score you can reward them and send them to the gardens/golden cage/hotsprings or win gladiatrix fights... like if devotion is capped they should slowly nurture themselves back steadily since it's been months since they were put in cages or beaten everyday.

That way you encourage players to keep those slaves for longer periods if Nature/Temperament/Empathy are reachable within maybe 2 months of treating a slave well and caring for them so you get to sell an S+ slave every 2 months max instead of what I do which is weed through low temperament/nature/empathy slaves since those are impossible to train.

I mean indeed intelligence should get time to develop with study, and physical form requires training and you can expect those to raise like that but usually physical form raises if she's being given rest and decent food but the others I mentioned don't.

I understand where you're coming from but I severely disagree that you should, in any world, be able to churn out S+ (perfect slaves/masterpieces of slave training) in around 2 months. As somebody already demonstrated with a Johnny playthrough, you can quite easily get obscene amounts of sparks (since there really aren't any money-sinks in this game) even with the current state of affairs.

 

[Elona Spiral]

Having had some time to invest into re-learning the game and finishing the updated tutorial (yes I'm that awesome) I can safely say that the game isn't more difficult than before. One of my limiting factors was merely to think of Mood/Obedience as two different things, but they both contribute to the end goal. As someone else in this thread I rarely used spells before, I have started now as they are, well, not necessary but expedient. I found that on normal difficulty I can usually churn out D+ slaves in roughly 5 days which I find is reasonable on what never really was a challenging difficulty.

Where do you sell these D+ Slaves? What skills do they have?

 

[TheKingCobra]

Where do you sell these D+ Slaves? What skills do they have?

At the beginning of the game I tend to just go for the easy D+ slaves to the residences in Bull Town, Necropolis etc. It's enough to build a bit of capital. After that, I usually sell secretaries to the real estate office in White Town (C- required). C- is only a few days more training than D+. The D+ slaves sell for 750 and the C- sell for 1000. I suppose once your brand gets to about B+ you could sell D+ or C- slaves at the auction, I haven't actually tested that yet as I recently started over after learning the game again. You also have the option of D- slave contracts from the guild. Or D- artists to the theater in Necropolis, but I haven't tried that yet either.

 

[qwertyu12359]

At the beginning of the game I tend to just go for the easy D+ slaves to the residences in Bull Town, Necropolis etc. It's enough to build a bit of capital. After that, I usually sell secretaries to the real estate office in White Town (C- required). C- is only a few days more training than D+. The D+ slaves sell for 750 and the C- sell for 1000. I suppose once your brand gets to about B+ you could sell D+ or C- slaves at the auction, I haven't actually tested that yet as I recently started over after learning the game again. You also have the option of D- slave contracts from the guild. Or D- artists to the theater in Necropolis, but I haven't tried that yet either.

D- artists with a twist, they must be competent at self-torture

And self-torture has been "upgraded" in 2.2

 

[TheKingCobra]

D- artists with a twist, they must be competent at self-torture

And self-torture has been "upgraded" in 2.0

Welp, now I'm going to have to try it >.<

 

[LewdGanglia]

Been trying this game and quite enjoying it! I have a question about items, when asking a slave what she wanted she replied:

"Can I get a night eye mask? Light from the street keeps me awake."

I looked everywhere and cannot find such item, where is it?