drebin

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May 1, 2017
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In 2.2, eating F- quality food (which is what you have in the slums without a kitchen) is unhealthy and will lower the slaver's health to D- over time if he doesn't compensate for it with sufficient exercise. And force rules no longer counts towards the minimum number of rules to avoid spoiling, but you still only need 2 rules on normal obedience difficulty.
Is the dacay more than what you receive from actually resting? Let me get the test version, I'll try it out.
Even if force rules doesn't count there's still plenty you can use to reach 3.

I didn't look at your name, wanted to ask the guy having the issue with the birthing. :D
 

ImperatorAugustusTertius

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Sep 12, 2020
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In 2.2, it's based on his diet. We wanted the food quality to actually matter, so eating F- food will decline master strength to D-; eating D- food will decline master strength to C-; eating C- food will decline master health to B+. Eating high quality food can raise master health up to one level below the food quality grade (max of A+ health with S+ food). Other than that, master health won't passively change overnight unless the master is ill or has residual penalties from taking drugs.
 

drebin

Member
May 1, 2017
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375
In 2.2, it's based on his diet. We wanted the food quality to actually matter, so eating F- food will decline master strength to D-; eating D- food will decline master strength to C-; eating C- food will decline master health to B+. Eating high quality food can raise master health up to one level below the food quality grade (max of A+ health with S+ food). Other than that, master health won't passively change overnight unless the master is ill or has residual penalties from taking drugs.
I honestly disagree with the quality of food on it's own keeping you physically weak. To me it basically means eating bland food with bad nutritional value, but still enough quantity, like bread with water or something similar. You won't become physically fit from it, but if the quantity is enough, you could get to and maintain an average physique by eating it. I do agree that it should cap out your potential, but not at D- which is basically someone who was bedridden just up till then. Maybe at C, Unfit could still be called malnourished.
Even slaves get better from feeble to weakened just by resting while eating dehydrated food, which should equate to F-.
Food should become a factor next to the slaver's surroundings, the amount of rest he gets and the excersise he does, not completely replacing the former two.

In the case that you really want to keep it like this, there should be an option to buy pre-prepared food then from some shops, eat at the Virgin's hip(which would make it not just for show.), or a campfire in the slums to cook meat. Or if that's a no go, an excersise self option at home, or training at base camp, which would give the camp some porpuse.

Anyway I downloaded 2.2 now, so I'll take a look.
 
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qwertyu12359

Jack-o-nine-tails
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Aug 1, 2017
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I honestly disagree with the quality of food on it's own keeping you physically weak. To me it basically means eating bland food with bad nutritional value, but still enough quantity, like bread with water or something similar. You won't become physically fit from it, but if the quantity is enough, you could get to and maintain an average physique by eating it. I do agree that it should cap out your potential, but not at D- which is basically someone who was bedridden just up till then.
Bedridden is literally F- not D- ^^ So this alone should change your mind. :)

About the quality of food, quality > quantity. If your slave doesn't know about macro nutriments enough, she might only feed you with glucids and 0 proteins or lipids. That's why you want to teach her about those things fast, otherwise you slaver won't be able to lift at the gym much less lift bitches.
 

drebin

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I didn't call D- bedridden, I called it someone that just got over being bedridden. Unfit C- is the average physique, not D-.

With this change you basically made a weak start in the slums without faction favor, either a long ass grind or simply unwinnable. I'll know which once I did a few runs.
 

qwertyu12359

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Aug 1, 2017
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With this change you basically made a weak start in the slums without faction favor, either a long ass grind or simply unwinnable. I'll know which once I did a few runs.
We don't want to make the beginning at the slums unwinnable. If it's really impossible, we'll raise the nutritive value of canned food (not too much, but just enough for the playthrough to be possible).

The lore explanation for such a raise in quality would be quite easy to find. The canned food you're having is the bad human parts that are unsolvable (crushed tendons) mixed with ruined crops from Serpentine. And yet there are enough vitamins to keep you alive and able to survive. And it would be interesting that bad slave cooks would give you worse food for your health than if you just bought shitty food in can; that can open up some interesting gameplay dilemma.

Unfit C- is the average physique, not D-.
Careful, C- is not "average" or "normal", it's "mediocre". We've reached consensus for the rank terminology around February 2020 on this very thread (y)
 

drebin

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May 1, 2017
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Then the naming needs to be changed. The average human is unfit, not weak.

You could do any of these instead of improving base nutritional value: In the case that you really want to keep it like this, there should be an option to buy pre-prepared food then from some shops, eat at the Virgin's hip(which would make it not just for show.), or a campfire in the slums to cook meat. Or if that's a no go, an excersise self option at home, or training at base camp, which would give the camp some purpose.

I do think slaves that are extremely bad at cooking would make worse food. Charcoal is worse for you than anything that is canned.
 

ImperatorAugustusTertius

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Sep 12, 2020
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If you exercise (win spars at colosseum at level above your health; train slave in fitness or fighting; fight at the border of Fogs) more than once per day, you can compensate for the health drain and gain strength even with F- food. Eating cheap food at the Hip, eating expensive food at the Hip, eating daily at a restaurant with slave (reward) or at the Gentlemen's Club will also raise strength up to C-/B+/A+/A+ respectively even if you live on F- food and don't exercise.

...Gentlemen's club wasn't setting the right flag, though.
 
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drebin

Member
May 1, 2017
218
375
If you exercise (win spars at colosseum at level above your health; train slave in fitness or fighting; fight at the border of Fogs) more than once per day, you can compensate for the health drain and gain strength even with F- food. Eating cheap food at the Hip, eating expensive food at the Hip, eating daily at a restaurant with slave (reward) or at the Gentlemen's Club will also raise strength up to C-/B+/A+/A+ respectively even if you live on F- food and don't exercise.
With a weak constitution, you can't win the easiest colluseum battle, because you get one-shot. I don't think I need to point out that the Fog is not an option either.
At the start, you don't have access to the Gentlemen's club without faction favor.
As for the hip, I've been eating the most expensive, Catch of the day for over a decade without any improvement. It still counts as you eating F- at the end of that day, which probably just voids any bonus you would have gotten from the Hip.

Don't know about the restaurant reward yet, haven't tested that.
 

drebin

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May 1, 2017
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It's definitely possible to win at least up to tier-2 spars at the colosseum with D- slaver health and no armor; I'm using a whip at the moment...
Are you trying a slaver with absolutely no skills? I'm talking about someone having no experience in fighting.

I tried multiple times, with Aketon on, and a baton against an unarmed slave, and got one-shot every single time. (A whip is way too expensive if you start out with 200 sparks and spend half of that on men's clothes.)

Tried the restaurants for a decade, didn't improve at all. I'll check out the new download.
 
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ImperatorAugustusTertius

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Sep 12, 2020
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With F- domination and F- personality, the master has zero morale. Losing the spars advances combat skill up to D- (but no higher). However, combat skill that doesn't contribute to morale at the moment. Gladiatrix skill contributes to morale for slaves; I think combat skill should contribute to morale for master too. Currently it's based on personality and domination.
 

drebin

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May 1, 2017
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15 days of going to the Hip every day, eating a Catch, going to the Salon for a full service and cleaning the house, and it's still Weak. Used the new loli included code.

Having to go the Hip every day also brings up the problem, that you only have two stamina for every day, of which you are using 1 to go to Serpentine. So you're left with a single stamina.

Edit: I see that the link in this thread and the one in the beta thread link to different files. I tried the one in the beta thread, I'll look at the one here, in case you updated this one.
 
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drebin

Member
May 1, 2017
218
375
With F- domination and F- personality, the master has zero morale. Losing the spars advances combat skill up to D- (but no higher). However, combat skill that doesn't contribute to morale at the moment. Gladiatrix skill contributes to morale for slaves; I think combat skill should contribute to morale for master too. Currently it's based on personality and domination.
There should be another way for you to raise it at least to C, that's not the collusseum.
 

ImperatorAugustusTertius

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Sep 12, 2020
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15 days of going to the Hip every day, eating a Catch, going to the Salon for a full service and cleaning the house, and it's still Weak. Used the new loli included code.

Having to go the Hip every day also brings up the problem, that you only have two stamina for every day, of which you are using 1 to go to Serpentine. So you're left with a single stamina.
From D- to C- strength requires 15 points. Each Hip meal gives +2, each F- night is -1. So after 15 days you would be there, unless you are going negative energy, which drains health...
 

drebin

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May 1, 2017
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375
Tried the one in this thread, this one does work after a decade with Catch.

But isn't 10 days a bit too punishing? You're spending 30 sparks only on that and you're paying 20 for the cans you shouldn't even eat. while spending 10 of 20 stamina on going to Serpentine every day.

D- from eating cans is still too harsh. Or at least remove the -1 every night, when you eat somewhere else.
 

ImperatorAugustusTertius

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Sep 12, 2020
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Whether it is too punishing is indeed the question. You won’t die from having D- health. It means that you have less energy, but it is possible to survive and train a slave with 2 stars of energy. It’s incentive to get out of the Slums, but it’s definitely possible to make it work. I’m currently playing an Uncle Tom on hardcore and still living in the Slums; due to the low cost of living, winning the once per decade arena battle is enough to live on, so he hasn’t even needed to take out a loan.
 
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