I had a try yesterday and I found this bug does not exsit in version 2.2.0 and It appears in version 2.2.3. I do not know why. How can this bug been induced or It is intended ?
QSP Jack-o-Nine-Tails [v2.3] [ImperatorAugustusTertius / qwertyu12359]
As you show, Is it possible to train slave in origin "house" ? I never used that in version 2.2 even as Johny. And I managed to live over 1000 days.
She has A+ nature, which opposes taming. Once a day, if she refuses, her taming drops. On the other hand, if she is guilty for a reason other than a refusal, her taming won't drop. Give her tasks she won't refuse, and punish her if necessary based on her performance.
She is not refusing. She is trying but not succeeding. Performance. This is because she is depressed and has F- skill as a maid and is not wearing maid clothing. Better results by improving her mood and sending her to school. If you ask her how she feels... she has a lot of grievances. With your save, I had her drink alcohol (mood up from Depressed to Calm) then sent her to school for maid lesson. Result: D-, 1 merit.
Yes. Some starts can't rent an apartment right away, either due to cost or lack of reputation.
The version that is currently under development is 2.2.6.10.
So it seems. Thanks again for taking the time to compare. It has been a long time since I played 1.7.5.
Difficulty in JONT is all about resource management (energy, sparks, time) as at the end of the decade the only limiting factor is sparks.
Some of the changes we've made to diversify slaves based on attributes are likely coming into play, such as increased taming resistance with high nature.
In the latest version, if you don't adapt to the slave, you can still succeed, but it will take longer / cost more.
Looking at the differences you've highlighted, I can think of a few potential changes that would make normal games easier.
1. Reduce taming drop on first-daily-refusal and overnight when slave aura is stronger than slaver's. De-emphasize "taming" outfits.
2. Increase impact of fear for determining slave performance in tasks. De-emphasize clothing in general and make "stick" training more effective.
3. Stop strength loss from eating canned food in slums at D- instead of F-. Reduce risk of game-over from exhaustion or overindulgence in drugs.
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It's more of a early thing, you said somewhere that smart slave knows to better to do chores than to refuse them. She refused maid lessons but accept athletic/accounting for some reasons.
Plus the thing with high nature is quite counter intuitive. You would expect punishments doing something after she refused to take lessons instead of dropping taming
We have it reversed actually: higher intellect raises the obedience threshold to do housekeeping. "This task is beneath me."
Punishments don't drop taming. A refusal that created guilt that you're punishing can drop taming, if it's the first refusal of the day.
bumped dev version to 2.2.6.11 -> https://f95zone.to/threads/jack-o-n...tsman-community-development.390/post-13549085
damn
she has been kinda okay at the following intructions part, get merits here and there however as you can see it has been 20 days still rebellious and low taming
In order of importance imo;
De-emphasize clothing in general for sure, if nothing else outfit shuffling is tedious and boring. I like having it as an option for certain cases but it should remain an option, not the assumed default in order to get by at least for the legacy obedience difficulties. If you want to implement even higher difficulties for the crowd that wants to play that way go for it as long as i can just leave those boxes unchecked.
Taming in general was an issue, i noticed on pretty much every slave in this branch it was lagging behind the others. Never really knew why until now.
Was the fear impact formula changed? I haven't noticed it in particular being an issue but sure, could be a factor. I have noticed that devotion is harder to get and spoil is easier due to the changes around both.
Oh tangent while i remember - with the 2.2.6.9 slave after punishment backfired and she went into the despair death spiral it broke her sanity. After i managed to recover her from it most of her aura stats were reset. Not sure if that's intentional, bringing slaves back from a mindbroken state isn't a common experience for me, but yeah that made it even more doomed.
Canned food not being fatal is probably a good idea though its never come up personally, i've lived off little more than canned soup irl before and don't recall slipping into a coma. In old versions i wouldn't stay in the slums long enough for it to be a problem and the virgin's hip selling food now means the slums having no kitchen is less of a problem. You have added new problems in the slums though so maybe life there is hard enough as is.
Drug reliance and exhaustion are both non issues imo. I use drugs very sparingly, a bit of kamra here and there maybe some pollen at most once a decade, usually less. I don't push myself or slaves into negative energy except rarely on accident.
The tutorial makes no mention of clothing having an effect on taming.
The only information that the game contains to suggest that clothing matters for any purpose beyond role play is that only recently have poor diligence lessons (but not refused ones!) suggested that suitable clothing might help.
Things that a new player would be expected to intuit about items without any hints in-game:
Items have specific numerical effects per day that are hidden
The player is expected to know that certain items affect slave stats in any way whatsoever. The player is expected to know that taming growth within a reasonable time threshold is reliant on micromanaging outfits. Testing to see nightly taming growth is not possible for a new player, at least until obtaining the Raven Crown to see debug stats on the aura (which one of the devs rather amusingly dismissed as not useful to a new player several pages back). This necessitates raising a Leviathan, which subsequently requires the expense of a pen, and a slave with superior obedience to keep the Leviathan milked and alive long enough to turn it in. A slave who must be trained to do this without a basic understanding of how Taming works.
Even if they do manage to figure out relative item effects on taming, some items have hidden pitfalls in addition to mood such as lowering nature or temperament, which would not be directly communicated to the player until they noticed a drop in the slave's stats. Some might consider it unreasonable for an inexperienced player to see an overnight drop in Empathy and somehow intuit that it is coming from the spiked collar, whose description cryptically reads "makes her feel more aggressive."
Item effects on aura are compiled overnight
This is a mechanical feature that is also not immediately apparent to players. Even if it were clear to players that the Plumed Bridle increased taming significantly at a large mood penalty, there's not really any way for them to determine WHEN the item's bonus is applied. Does making her put on a fancy horse hat for a painting lesson apply it to the lesson at a cost to her mood and diligence (because she's wearing a huge impractical feathered headdress?) Sure, maybe it could. We're all playing "guess the dev headcanon" here anyway. Get the raven crown and check the aura to find out.
Of course it turns out that it's an overnight calculation, which is at least a little less insane than it being for every lesson. But still insane enough that in this game about training slaves, the last step of the day after the lessons are done and the rewards and punishment are doled out is to strap the slave into an eclectic mix of plumes and bobbles to sleep in because it micros the greatest stat boost. Or does it? I'm relying on the wiki here and who knows if that's even up to date.
I find it very illuminating when player concerns over tight time restrictions are replied to with a request for the save file and ultimately an example of how the dev would handle the difficult slave. While I respect the effort taken to show that the unwinnable scenario is, in fact, technically possible, it's always via a series of steps that only make sense to someone who is already deeply, intimately familiar with the game and its mechanics.
But so long as easy modes and cheat menus exist, it's fine for the game to be balanced to the highest and hardest tier possible, right? Anyone who isn't willing or able to play "guess the developer's reasoning" can just go play in the corner.
On an unrelated note, I was playing a recent dev branch and noticed that my Slaver Strength was stuck at A-Strong for a very long time despite making a dedicated effort to eat S+ food, have sex multiple times daily, and spar daily. After decades in-game with no sign of progress, I opened up the code and debug mode to figure out why. It turns out that food and sex won't raise your strength past A at all anymore. It has to be sparring. Smacking down dozens, hundreds of amazons in the same repetitive click fight, grinding day after day, for decades to get the strength variable to 666 before it ticks over to Herculean. This seems unnecessarily grindy and repetitive.
The only information that the game contains to suggest that clothing matters for any purpose beyond role play is that only recently have poor diligence lessons (but not refused ones!) suggested that suitable clothing might help.
Things that a new player would be expected to intuit about items without any hints in-game:
Items have specific numerical effects per day that are hidden
The player is expected to know that certain items affect slave stats in any way whatsoever. The player is expected to know that taming growth within a reasonable time threshold is reliant on micromanaging outfits. Testing to see nightly taming growth is not possible for a new player, at least until obtaining the Raven Crown to see debug stats on the aura (which one of the devs rather amusingly dismissed as not useful to a new player several pages back). This necessitates raising a Leviathan, which subsequently requires the expense of a pen, and a slave with superior obedience to keep the Leviathan milked and alive long enough to turn it in. A slave who must be trained to do this without a basic understanding of how Taming works.
Even if they do manage to figure out relative item effects on taming, some items have hidden pitfalls in addition to mood such as lowering nature or temperament, which would not be directly communicated to the player until they noticed a drop in the slave's stats. Some might consider it unreasonable for an inexperienced player to see an overnight drop in Empathy and somehow intuit that it is coming from the spiked collar, whose description cryptically reads "makes her feel more aggressive."
Item effects on aura are compiled overnight
This is a mechanical feature that is also not immediately apparent to players. Even if it were clear to players that the Plumed Bridle increased taming significantly at a large mood penalty, there's not really any way for them to determine WHEN the item's bonus is applied. Does making her put on a fancy horse hat for a painting lesson apply it to the lesson at a cost to her mood and diligence (because she's wearing a huge impractical feathered headdress?) Sure, maybe it could. We're all playing "guess the dev headcanon" here anyway. Get the raven crown and check the aura to find out.
Of course it turns out that it's an overnight calculation, which is at least a little less insane than it being for every lesson. But still insane enough that in this game about training slaves, the last step of the day after the lessons are done and the rewards and punishment are doled out is to strap the slave into an eclectic mix of plumes and bobbles to sleep in because it micros the greatest stat boost. Or does it? I'm relying on the wiki here and who knows if that's even up to date.
I find it very illuminating when player concerns over tight time restrictions are replied to with a request for the save file and ultimately an example of how the dev would handle the difficult slave. While I respect the effort taken to show that the unwinnable scenario is, in fact, technically possible, it's always via a series of steps that only make sense to someone who is already deeply, intimately familiar with the game and its mechanics.
But so long as easy modes and cheat menus exist, it's fine for the game to be balanced to the highest and hardest tier possible, right? Anyone who isn't willing or able to play "guess the developer's reasoning" can just go play in the corner.
On an unrelated note, I was playing a recent dev branch and noticed that my Slaver Strength was stuck at A-Strong for a very long time despite making a dedicated effort to eat S+ food, have sex multiple times daily, and spar daily. After decades in-game with no sign of progress, I opened up the code and debug mode to figure out why. It turns out that food and sex won't raise your strength past A at all anymore. It has to be sparring. Smacking down dozens, hundreds of amazons in the same repetitive click fight, grinding day after day, for decades to get the strength variable to 666 before it ticks over to Herculean. This seems unnecessarily grindy and repetitive.
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More eloquently put than i can manage, cheers.
I had the exact same problem back in i think 2.2.1 and posted about it here but never got an answer, I appreciate the explanation. Oh also the sparring didn't get me anywhere either, maybe i just didn't grind long enough but i recall something posted about the order of the last 2 opponents was mixed up so I was probably grinding the wrong one too.
What about fighting monsters in the fog? Does that work also?
I'd think a real fight would be better than sparring for raising strength
I stand corrected, two ways.
However, you will be unable to train the slave past A with your own strength limited, so your opportunities to teach the slave before she caps out are not great as most of her A to S lessons will have to be with someone else.
I didn't check to see whether slower progress still counts. Maybe it would be better to take off her leotard and force poorer performance in order to get more lessons out of your slave. I'm going to have to see if this works anyway as I'm trying to raise my Slaver Medicine skill from D and can only really get three or four lessons per slave even with the gown on and it's a miserable experience. Maybe if I do a worse job teaching her I can get better at medicine faster? That would be intuitive.
Maybe I should just put on a collar and skirt and try to sneak into the school lessons myself.
In this game can
And I find that tutorial in version 2.2.6.10 is much easier than those in version 2.2, for every decade bill is much cheaper, from 150 every 10 days to about 10 every decade. Is this intended ?
Depends what you are feeding the slave, but yes, since the guild pays for the housing you only have to cover incidentals during the tutorial.