VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.1 Part I] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Jeevant]

any chances for an official android version?

 

[Frosty2000]

I don't really agree -- I see where you're coming from, but I think a lot (everything?) depends on the little movie you play in your head while you're doing it. It's one thing to "submit to men," which I also have zero interest in; it's another thing to please your mistress by doing something you really don't like. The action is the same, but the context makes everything different. You don't have to be into general submission to enjoy that -- I enjoy it, and as I said I have no interest in maledom.

Well you certainly can have another take on that. My take is that in a femdom context men generally are below women. Anything which puts men on the same or similar level as a woman, in this case the guy who will be pleasured, doesn't make it pure femdom anymore, but a general D/s activity from my perspective. Therefore for me personally it loses its appeal.

I even wrote a little about this in another post elsewhere in this forum... to me, there is an interesting, femdom side to feminization. For me, too, there is an inherent contradiction if a male is simply turned into a complete woman just like all the other female characters (where's the humiliation in that?), but in all cases of feminization I've seen so far, the fun was that it fails -- the guy tries (or is forced to try) to be like a superior woman, but he just can't pass and every little frilly thing in his outfit, every layer of make-up just highlights that. When the women around smirk at him or even point out explicitly what a failure he is and mock him for it, the humiliation to his ego is so sweet and hot. I wished I could see the women laughing and drinking his tears of painful desperation.

Of course, this is me, I'm not saying everybody should feel like that. I'm just trying to show how feminization could fit perfectly within a femdom context and thus be enjoyed by someone like me, who also has no special interest in wearing women's clothes or make up per se.

Hmm, don't know if that is really the general look on that. What I see is that mostly they are (and often want to be) ridiculed for being feminine and therefore weak. But yeah, if you see it as failing to pass as a woman though it might be different. Still a hard pass for me.

 

[TessSadist]

Hi all,

I already have enough distinct tracks planned for the game that will quite a lot to juggle and balance. I have nothing against male gay/bi content, but it is unlikely I would have that in the game absent perhaps conversation/implied content somehow with maybe a lower level slave...err employee hee hee that is not a key character. (maybe being dragged away for failing something and is taunted, etc.) Maybe some kind of teasing/cuckold type scene might be possible where a sub has to submit/body worship a woman and then be denied any enjoyment or orgasm while she gets off with someone else instead. I could also see a scene where a male dom has an option to do this in reverse where he has sex with a cruel female who enjoys forcing her own inadequate male to watch, etc. But that whole NTR? stuff is not really a focus for me. Then of course female gay/bi content is another story since the female protagonist will likely have options in that direction in some fashion as she will have some freedom of choice.

 

[TessSadist]

any chances for an official android version?

I am literally the dumbest tech person alive perhaps, so I haven't tried this, but I can try and take a look at this option.

 

[TessSadist]

I don't really agree -- I see where you're coming from, but I think a lot (everything?) depends on the little movie you play in your head while you're doing it. It's one thing to "submit to men," which I also have zero interest in; it's another thing to please your mistress by doing something you really don't like. The action is the same, but the context makes everything different. You don't have to be into general submission to enjoy that -- I enjoy it, and as I said I have no interest in maledom.

The top part I really see where you are coming from, and I would say it will be a theme for many options that the male MC has to do things he doesn't like as a sub for the enjoyment of a woman. This would be especially true with a harder track as the sadism would ramp up and a key part of that is the perspective of how cruel women can be with extreme power, just as most men would be unchecked. (power of course being a huge theme of the game overall and ultimately a key conflict/motivator for almost everyone) I would like to see him have to make tough choices, but they don't have to be sexually related ones necessarily. It could be having to choose between his brother and best friend somehow in a way that is testing numerous psychological pressures. Also, even a male dom path would likely at some point have to make very difficult decisions as to whether he wants to survive and gain power, but possibly at the expense of something (or someone) else, etc.

 

[Ninjaman2]

Hi all,

I already have enough distinct tracks planned for the game that will quite a lot to juggle and balance. I have nothing against male gay/bi content, but it is unlikely I would have that in the game absent perhaps conversation/implied content somehow with maybe a lower level slave...err employee hee hee that is not a key character. (maybe being dragged away for failing something and is taunted, etc.) Maybe some kind of teasing/cuckold type scene might be possible where a sub has to submit/body worship a woman and then be denied any enjoyment or orgasm while she gets off with someone else instead. I could also see a scene where a male dom has an option to do this in reverse where he has sex with a cruel female who enjoys forcing her own inadequate male to watch, etc. But that whole NTR? stuff is not really a focus for me. Then of course female gay/bi content is another story since the female protagonist will likely have options in that direction in some fashion as she will have some freedom of choice.

I appreciate the response! Definitely appreciate devs who interact with community

 

[Z - Reborn]

Well, that was good.

The writing is a little iffy with the girls always talking about how they enjoy "causing others suffering", which feels extremely unnatural, but besides that I'd say the game has potential.

Playing both as a man and as a woman in a femdom world could get really interesting, even more so because they are on the same side, at least at first. Really hoping this part clicks! Godspeed!

 

[TessSadist]

Well, that was good.

The writing is a little iffy with the girls always talking about how they enjoy "causing others suffering", which feels extremely unnatural, but besides that I'd say the game has potential.

Playing both as a man and as a woman in a femdom world could get really interesting, even more so because they are on the same side, at least at first. Really hoping this part clicks! Godspeed!

Thanks! I can understand your constructive criticism too, but the circumstances of who is in this situation - and how they got there - would cause certain personalities to gravitate to this environment and thrive/rise up so to speak. Part of the narrative is the sense that unlimited power in the hands of certain people can create a new normal for some people in that they might do and say things they never would without that absolute freedom.

The best real world example I have from my own life is a set of MILF aged country club women I know personally who are close with my own mother. They are so far removed from the daily realities of certain people that I am often shocked at their casual lack of empathy and downright gleefulness at times at being rich while enjoying the suffering of the "plebes" as they almost always say in jokes, etc. In fact, one scene I wrote with Elena talking about how much her shoes cost (and how long it would take to pay for with people under her) is based on a real conversation from my real life as they joked about some poor guy cleaning her yard and calculating how long it would take him to pay for the three shoes she just bought that day. I think even my own sense of normal is possibly a bit warped too based on things I see that some may not casually or consistently.

 

[noway1]

The best real world example I have from my own life is a set of MILF aged country club women I know personally who are close with my own mother. They are so far removed from the daily realities of certain people that I am often shocked at their casual lack of empathy and downright gleefulness at times at being rich while enjoying the suffering of the "plebes" as they almost always say in jokes, etc. In fact, one scene I wrote with Elena talking about how much her shoes cost (and how long it would take to pay for with people under her) is based on a real conversation from my real life as they joked about some poor guy cleaning her yard and calculating how long it would take him to pay for the three shoes she just bought that day. I think even my own sense of normal is possibly a bit warped too based on things I see that some may not casually or consistently.

Nice story. I can truly imagine this. But what I also see often from some rich people is that they don't even understand what others can or can not afford. As Marie Antoinette would say: Let them eat cake.
Your MILF at least actually knows about her privilege.

 

[asehpe]

Well you certainly can have another take on that. My take is that in a femdom context men generally are below women. Anything which puts men on the same or similar level as a woman, in this case the guy who will be pleasured, doesn't make it pure femdom anymore, but a general D/s activity from my perspective. Therefore for me personally it loses its appeal.

That is my basic take too (women > men), it's just that the same scene, with the same steps, can be interpreted in more than one way. You see the scene from the viewpoint of the guy who will be pleasured -- a no-no in a femdom context. I see it from the viewpoint of the woman who is forcing all this to happen -- ah, now OK, says my pervy sense.

But I like to understand other people's viewpoints too (it takes all kinds to make a [pervy] world). So I have one more question: if both men were obviously disgusted by what the woman was forcing them to do -- i.e., there is no way any of the two men is being "pleasured" -- would that change anything for you?

What I see is that mostly they are (and often want to be) ridiculed for being feminine and therefore weak. But yeah, if you see it as failing to pass as a woman though it might be different. Still a hard pass for me.

I suppose these are based on more traditional male/female archetypes (the "real man" vs. the "wimp", the "sissy boy", etc.), i.e. the humiliation is in failing to be a "real man." I bet this is the reason why many enjoy that -- they enjoy the feeling of this specific failure. But yes, that is not the reason why I enjoy these scenes. It has to be "the women enjoy his failure to pass and mock him for that" for it to work for me. All kinds!

 

[Z - Reborn]

Thanks! I can understand your constructive criticism too, but the circumstances of who is in this situation - and how they got there - would cause certain personalities to gravitate to this environment and thrive/rise up so to speak. Part of the narrative is the sense that unlimited power in the hands of certain people can create a new normal for some people in that they might do and say things they never would without that absolute freedom.

The best real world example I have from my own life is a set of MILF aged country club women I know personally who are close with my own mother. They are so far removed from the daily realities of certain people that I am often shocked at their casual lack of empathy and downright gleefulness at times at being rich while enjoying the suffering of the "plebes" as they almost always say in jokes, etc. In fact, one scene I wrote with Elena talking about how much her shoes cost (and how long it would take to pay for with people under her) is based on a real conversation from my real life as they joked about some poor guy cleaning her yard and calculating how long it would take him to pay for the three shoes she just bought that day. I think even my own sense of normal is possibly a bit warped too based on things I see that some may not casually or consistently.

I did get the theme of power in your writing, and I really like it. Matter of fact Estate: Dominate explores similar themes, and as far as "grounded to reality" femdom games go, that is the best written I've played by a wide margin.

As far as real life power goes however my experience differs a lot from yours, and that is probably why the dialogue feels unnatural to me. Personally I always found that people with real power don't bring that fact up without a reason, while those that bring it up all the time usually don't even have that much power to begin with.

To get back to the game's dialogue, I like Elena's: she boasts about power because she wants the protagonist to understand it. She might go a little overboard for my taste, but I think her scenes clicked very well overall.

Another very good dialogue was Samantha's before entering the limo when she goes: "if I didn't take care of myself I'd just be the female version of these losers", or something along those lines. This told me in a very subdle way that she is in a position of power and that she worked for it, and it worked so well because the delively felt very natural: she didn't brag about her power, I arrived to that conclusion myself.

On the other hand when the girls just spend entire scenes talking about how much they enjoy sadism and domination, they just come off as one-dimensional and uninteresting, just like how real people would. Not someone you'd feel respect towards.

These are just my 2 cents though, and as I said I think you've already started strong.

 

[Jeevant]

I am literally the dumbest tech person alive perhaps, so I haven't tried this, but I can try and take a look at this option.

Yeah would appreciate that because the unofficial version fit to screen is not proper and moreover official version is more reliable ....if not possible then fine but hope you give it a try

 

[TessSadist]

Nice story. I can truly imagine this. But what I also see often from some rich people is that they don't even understand what others can or can not afford. As Marie Antoinette would say: Let them eat cake.
Your MILF at least actually knows about her privilege.

Yes, I can only speak to my own experience. I think some people I know literally have no concept of what it means to lack certain financial means and basic power dynamics they take for granted. I think what I have observed with the concept of power - at least from my background and perspective (this is Hawaii and another nice area in another state) is that the women I have met tend to talk more about it because they often derive that power from very rich men (classic trophy wife syndrome) and that the more independently powerful women are more subdued about it. But when they are alone with just their fellow female peers with no others around, I hear some pretty strong stuff to be honest. Very callous - the specific word I would use for sure - conversations and I'm a pretty mean and sadistic type naturally and even I am surprised. And of course their children are now the ones doing the burn money photos on social media and such...different issue there.

 

[TessSadist]

I appreciate the response! Definitely appreciate devs who interact with community

Thanks! I am always worried about this long-term on this site because two extremely successful devs I really like and bounced ideas off of have clearly communicated to me their distaste for this site and their disavowal of it, but I don't see it I guess! I'm worried I'm going to discover something later that they did somehow, but I enjoy it and donated to the site based on the community, not the games!

 

[TessSadist]

Yeah would appreciate that because the unofficial version fit to screen is not proper and moreover official version is more reliable ....if not possible then fine but hope you give it a try

Ok! Yeah, the reliable part I am doubting since I have never done it and don't have an Android to test it, but thinking of just paying a pro for a quick port. (I advertised it in the recruitment forum, we shall see how it goes)

 

[asehpe]

The top part I really see where you are coming from, and I would say it will be a theme for many options that the male MC has to do things he doesn't like as a sub for the enjoyment of a woman.

Wonderful! That's right up my alley. Can't wait to see it come true.

This would be especially true with a harder track as the sadism would ramp up and a key part of that is the perspective of how cruel women can be with extreme power, just as most men would be unchecked. (power of course being a huge theme of the game overall and ultimately a key conflict/motivator for almost everyone).

Power is a huge factor both in this kind of kink and in real life as a whole, so seeing a good treatment of the theme in fiction, as in your game, is a pleasure on several levels. I'm really curious to see your opinion on it. Personally, I tend towards the psychological, i.e. why, or what feelings (from where?) make a man/woman choose to be cruel if s/he had the total freedom to do so, and how that reason/those feelings interact with the rest of the personality. Seeing how important you want to make the theme in the game (and I suppose that the world being ravaged and dystopian would contribute to the allure of power to the characters), I'm left wondering where you will take things (i.e., what your final opinion on power and its nature and effects on people will be).

I would like to see him have to make tough choices, but they don't have to be sexually related ones necessarily. It could be having to choose between his brother and best friend somehow in a way that is testing numerous psychological pressures. Also, even a male dom path would likely at some point have to make very difficult decisions as to whether he wants to survive and gain power, but possibly at the expense of something (or someone) else, etc.

That is interesting, and it is also why power is often a theme in non-kinky fiction as well: like sex, we're all interested in it. Don't they say that the best way to make someone show their true face is to give them power? Well, at the same time, they also say that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. So what is it: does power reveal true character, or does it corrupt it? What will it do to the MC, and his sister? ;-)

Part of the narrative is the sense that unlimited power in the hands of certain people can create a new normal for some people in that they might do and say things they never would without that absolute freedom.

Which begs the question, were these things inside those people all along, just waiting for the right opportunity (the new normal created by unlimited power)? Or were these people changed by this power in a way that made them... more evil, i.e. capable of doing or saying these things? Do we have absolute character, or is it always relative to the old or new normal we happen to be living under? In other words, do we exist as such or are we simply products of our circumstances, our environment? Do we truly live, or do we just adapt? :-\

Life is weird, but it is also deeply interesting.

In fact, one scene I wrote with Elena talking about how much her shoes cost (and how long it would take to pay for with people under her) is based on a real conversation from my real life as they joked about some poor guy cleaning her yard and calculating how long it would take him to pay for the three shoes she just bought that day. I think even my own sense of normal is possibly a bit warped too based on things I see that some may not casually or consistently.

Having been present when a man I know well said pretty much what Elena said under, well, different but comparable circumstances, I can appreciate that.

Everyone's sense of normal is warped in some sense, since each of us grew up under circumstances that deviated from "normal" in some (often even many) senses. Nobody is truly average. The important thing is to keep being aware of one's circumstances and how they affect our vision of normality.

Yet...

I admit it does make me feel weird to know that I can feel the same sense of shock and (perhaps?) revulsion you describe at these MILFs' lack of empathy, and at the same time be aroused by the idea of being in the guy's shoes. Especially if they said these things in my presence, or, even better, directly to me, while I was tending to their garden. With smirks and other overt signs of pleasure.

 

[Frosty2000]

That is my basic take too (women > men), it's just that the same scene, with the same steps, can be interpreted in more than one way. You see the scene from the viewpoint of the guy who will be pleasured -- a no-no in a femdom context. I see it from the viewpoint of the woman who is forcing all this to happen -- ah, now OK, says my pervy sense.

But I like to understand other people's viewpoints too (it takes all kinds to make a [pervy] world). So I have one more question: if both men were obviously disgusted by what the woman was forcing them to do -- i.e., there is no way any of the two men is being "pleasured" -- would that change anything for you?

Well I am probably a femdom fundamentalist. In my femdom world male orgasms wouldn't exist.

Seriously though I think the main conflict for me is simply that my main motivation to serve a woman comes from being sexually excited. That's why I also like chastity and tease and denial, since being kept on the edge gets me really into it. Never fantasize about stuff like castration though, since that would take away this incentive.

Being forced into certain things it really depends. In real life I am actually married to a Domme and there is stuff I don't like, but am willing to do for her. They are not many things though, since we are pretty in sync kink wise. Being forced into anything gay though, besides it being, at least imho, not really a femdom activity, would immediately make me lose any sexual excitement and turn me into a non submissive guy. So unless a Domme would actually want me to stop feeling submissive to her, getting a man into the mix would be a bad idea in my case.

 

[TessSadist]

These are just my 2 cents though, and as I said I think you've already started strong.

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it! Don't take it the wrong way if I am afraid to engage much more as I feel like I am going to have to deal with a compare and contrast with another game advertisement in my own thread and that doesn't seem helpful to me. But I am happy you liked a lot of it!

 

[TessSadist]

I can't keep up with you two! I have to get back to rendering! Thanks for the very insightful thoughts and information!

 

[asehpe]

I did get the theme of power in your writing, and I really like it. Matter of fact Estate: Dominate explores similar themes, and as far as "grounded to reality" femdom games go, that is the best written I've played by a wide margin.

Coincidentally, I am playing this game right now, and I must say that what I've seen thus far (I'm in Chapter 2) agrees with what you say. The dialogue is certainly above average, the characters, though a bit exaggerated, are intriguing and charming, and I am curious about the story and where it will go.

As far as real life power goes however my experience differs a lot from yours, and that is probably why the dialogue feels unnatural to me. Personally I always found that people with real power don't bring that fact up without a reason, while those that bring it up all the time usually don't even have that much power to begin with.

It's more a question of personality. I've seen both kinds of people, those who cannot not brag about their power (Donald Trump comes to mind) and those who don't see it as something to dwell upon. Maybe the dialogue will become more interesting to you if you see it as a window into a different kind of mind?

Another very good dialogue was Samantha's before entering the limo when she goes: "if I didn't take care of myself I'd just be the female version of these losers", or something along those lines. This told me in a very subtle way that she is in a position of power and that she worked for it, and it worked so well because the delively felt very natural: she didn't brag about her power, I arrived to that conclusion myself.

And yet Samantha is the kind of person who takes sexual pleasure in extreme displays of power over prisoners, like the one she killed in the rat box. She feels to me like a streetwise character: she was probably born poor, understood quickly how to acquire (some) power in the world, and then did it, so as to live in a way that suited her taste. She strikes me as someone who is OK with being a minion, as long as she can have minions of her own. Which makes her similar to Elena, who, in her conversation with the MC, also admits that there are "powers above her" that she has to bow to, however much she enjoys playing cat-and-mouse with those below her. Is the difference between Elena and Samantha just how successful each is at moving up the social scale? And perhaps also how intense their domination kinks are?

On the other hand when the girls just spend entire scenes talking about how much they enjoy sadism and domination, they just come off as one-dimensional and uninteresting, just like how real people would. Not someone you'd feel respect towards.

I see your point. I must admit, though, that to me these scenes sound more like pleasant banter. In the world of this game, you are allowed to indulge in "bad" behavior (i.e., openly saying how much you enjoy your natural sadism) if you are powerful enough, like the MILFs Tess mentioned above. It's a bit childish of them to do so, but not out of character, and, as far as my experience goes, not unlike real people. So those moments are kind of endearing to me, as if I was listening to little girls talking about how much they like butterflies. Not deep, but charming. The in-depth character study moments should be elsewhere.

But that's just me. I hope you can at least enjoy the pleasure of seeing women talk about how much they like torturing men, even if one-dimensionally. It makes my eyes go misty and my heart beat faster, and the world suddenly looks like a better place than it actually is.