VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.1 Part I] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[PGpauljp13]

Just Wow. Plain Wow. Things that you pick up on only when going through MULTIPLE Playthroughs. Some mind blowing information we get.

*** WARNING: HUGE AMOUNT OF TEXT HERE ***

This playthrough in which Olivia is Dom/Evil and Kane is Dom/Evil persons. But this really doesn't play a part as it for all combinations.

First thing that is key (and I do not see any talk of this) are the early flashbacks in Chapter 6.

Spoiler: Long Post Warning with what I feel is KEY information

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I wonder what y'all thought of this reveal. I really wish to know if this is how you feel or if I missed something or misjudged something.

Thanks,

Joseph

Saw this too,to me this makes Olivia so interesting and wide open.What game will/is she playing?

 

[wizardcock]

I never would have thought that this particular game would have the most adequate and reasonable girl. Veronica is unbelievable.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Whaaaat? What scene is that and how do I get it? Pretty sure I've never seen it

I imagine posters talking about the dominique sex scene and you get that by being dominant, picking dom for kanes work assignment and encouraging her to be bad when she asks if she should be good in the scene after you pick her.

 

[cubba]

I imagine posters talking about the dominique sex scene and you get that by being dominant, picking dom for kanes work assignment and encouraging her to be bad when she asks if she should be good in the scene after you pick her.

Yeah, I found the scene in the mod gallery. I came to the same conclusion you wrote but it still didn't get me to that scene
Well I'll try another approach later

 

[Liljoe757]

Whaaaat? What scene is that and how do I get it? Pretty sure I've never seen it

I imagine posters talking about the dominique sex scene and you get that by being dominant, picking dom for kanes work assignment and encouraging her to be bad when she asks if she should be good in the scene after you pick her.

Yeah, I found the scene in the mod gallery. I came to the same conclusion you wrote but it still didn't get me to that scene
Well I'll try another approach later

There are several things that need to be true in order to get the Kinky Dominique Sex scene.

Spoiler: The Steps To See The Kinky Dominique Sex Scene

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Thanks,

Joseph

 

[Deleted member 5744918]

I never would have thought that this particular game would have the most adequate and reasonable girl. Veronica is unbelievable.

It's been a while since I played this, is Veronica the red head scientist one?

 

[Liljoe757]

Saw this too,to me this makes Olivia so interesting and wide open.What game will/is she playing?

I am sorry, I have a weird sense of humor. The first thing that came out of my mouth was:

The game she is playing is the "Karlsson Gambit".

But I have to agree with you. I share a great fondness for her in an intellectual way and for of course, a sexual way (either Dom or Sub / Evil or Good. I'm a switch so I just love her to bits).

I know you didn't ask, but Elena followed by Dominique then Veronica are my favorite ladies (sharing 1st with Olivia). Just thought I'd throw that in at not cost

Thanks,

Joseph

 

[Liljoe757]

It's been a while since I played this, is Veronica the red head scientist one?

Yes she is.

Thanks,

Joseph

 

[Deleted member 5744918]

Yes she is.

Thanks,

Joseph

She seemed more balanced and reasonable from what I remember, compared to the sister who loves to torture her slaves for the sake of it. Forgot her name too

 

[Liljoe757]

She seemed more balanced and reasonable from what I remember, compared to the sister who loves to torture her slaves for the sake of it. Forgot her name too

Juliette is the known Sadist and Psychopath (A very, very, very lethal combination).

I do like Veronica. Mind you, she is a closet Sadist. She invents things like a "potion" that causes great pain to the victim, took the hearing from 100's (?) of slaves... ummm... workers so they couldn't hear important discussions while cleaning the floors with their tongues and she is the inventor of the extremely cruel pain chips....

Oh there is more, but I really do love that little minx

Thanks,

Joseph

 

[Deleted member 5744918]

Juliette is the known Sadist and Psychopath (A very, very, very lethal combination).

I do like Veronica. Mind you, she is a closet Sadist. She invents things like a "potion" that causes great pain to the victim, took the hearing from 100's (?) of slaves... ummm... workers so they couldn't hear important discussions while cleaning the floors with their tongues and she is the inventor of the extremely cruel pain chips....

Oh there is more, but I really do love that little minx

Thanks,

Joseph

Juliette...yep that's the full on bunny boiler
She lacks finesse with her torture techniques and yes, I can appreciate the more subtle type of torment that Veronica applies.

Oh now I just have to play this again. I might not have played the last update actually.
Guess I will be indulging in some sadism tonight then

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

I always see Juliette as having no filter. I think her and dominique are two sides of the same coin. Only real difference between the two is juliette doesnt give a fuck what anybody else thinks about her, she'll do as she pleases

 

[Liljoe757]

I always see Juliette as having no filter. I think her and dominique are two sides of the same coin. Only real difference between the two is juliette doesnt give a fuck what anybody else thinks about her, she'll do as she pleases

I've included 7 of the major players where we may learn of their sexual proclivities. I did not include Olivia as she is shaped by the player. May have missed a character or two, LoL. As always, this is just purely my opinion.

Thanks,

Joseph

Character​	Sexual Preferences	% Evil/Good	Comment
Alessandra	Dom	80/20​	She a Strong Dom who loves to be in charge.
Dominique	Switch	85/15​	She has a very strong Evil side that is masked by a Good persona on the outside. For a strong Dom she will Sub.
Juliette	Dom	100/0​	Psychopath. Pure Evil. But she is hot; does that count for anything?
Veronica	Dom	90/10​	She needs to always be in control. A darkness haunts her in a 50/50 split but make no mistake she is truly Evil and Sadistic.
Elena	Dom	95 /5​	She has a possible redemption arc going to the Good side. For now, she is an extreme Sadist.
Katsumi Kuromiya	Dom	99 /1​	She is extremely Evil and Sadistic. Excels in psychological and physical torture.
Junko	Switch	10/90​	Primarily a Sub but is learning to Dom. She is very kind and loving when not in a Dom role.

 

[Stan5851]

I've included 7 of the major players where we may learn of their sexual proclivities. I did not include Olivia as she is shaped by the player. May have missed a character or two, LoL. As always, this is just purely my opinion.

Thanks,

Joseph

Character​	Sexual Preferences	% Evil/Good	Comment
Alessandra	Dom	80/20​	She a Strong Dom who loves to be in charge.
Dominique	Switch	85/15​	She has a very strong Evil side that is masked by a Good persona on the outside. For a strong Dom she will Sub.
Juliette	Dom	100/0​	Psychopath. Pure Evil. But she is hot; does that count for anything?
Veronica	Dom	90/10​	She needs to always be in control. A darkness haunts her in a 50/50 split but make no mistake she is truly Evil and Sadistic.
Elena	Dom	95 /5​	She has a possible redemption arc going to the Good side. For now, she is an extreme Sadist.
Katsumi Kuromiya	Dom	99 /1​	She is extremely Evil and Sadistic. Excels in psychological and physical torture.
Junko	Switch	10/90​	Primarily a Sub but is learning to Dom. She is very kind and loving when not in a Dom role.

I wouldn't measure aspects of the characters' personalities by dry numbers of the ratio of good to evil. The game is much more complex and interesting than that. And if we are going to talk about these "meta" qualities of personality, it makes sense to look at it from the perspective of the game developer.

Tess wrote a post here that has what's called a "flexibility" rating, which tells you how much the player can influence a character to become good/evil or whatever. If you've read this post, you already know that Alessandra, Dominique and Katsumi's attitudes can partially be changed by the player (through certain decisions that Kane and Olivia make). Yes, you can't change their worldview completely, but still, there's plenty to work with and improve upon (if the player so desires).

I don't agree with your definition of Veronica, my thoughts on her personality are here. And as you can see from the same post by Tess, Veronica is a "flexible" character, unlike Juliette, who is not willing to change under any circumstances.

 

[Liljoe757]

I've included 7 of the major players where we may learn of their sexual proclivities. I did not include Olivia as she is shaped by the player. May have missed a character or two, LoL. As always, this is just purely my opinion.

Thanks,

Joseph

Character​	Sexual Preferences	% Evil/Good	Comment
Alessandra	Dom	80/20​	She a Strong Dom who loves to be in charge.
Dominique	Switch	85/15​	She has a very strong Evil side that is masked by a Good persona on the outside. For a strong Dom she will Sub.
Juliette	Dom	100/0​	Psychopath. Pure Evil. But she is hot; does that count for anything?
Veronica	Dom	90/10​	She needs to always be in control. A darkness haunts her in a 50/50 split but make no mistake she is truly Evil and Sadistic.
Elena	Dom	95 /5​	She has a possible redemption arc going to the Good side. For now, she is an extreme Sadist.
Katsumi Kuromiya	Dom	99 /1​	She is extremely Evil and Sadistic. Excels in psychological and physical torture.
Junko	Switch	10/90​	Primarily a Sub but is learning to Dom. She is very kind and loving when not in a Dom role.

I wouldn't measure aspects of the characters' personalities by dry numbers of the ratio of good to evil. The game is much more complex and interesting than that. And if we are going to talk about these "meta" qualities of personality, it makes sense to look at it from the perspective of the game developer.

Tess wrote a post here that has what's called a "flexibility" rating, which tells you how much the player can influence a character to become good/evil or whatever. If you've read this post, you already know that Alessandra, Dominique and Katsumi's attitudes can partially be changed by the player (through certain decisions that Kane and Olivia make). Yes, you can't change their worldview completely, but still, there's plenty to work with and improve upon (if the player so desires).

I don't agree with your definition of Veronica, my thoughts on her personality are here. And as you can see from the same post by Tess, Veronica is a "flexible" character, unlike Juliette, who is not willing to change under any circumstances.

Thank you very much Stan5851 for your thoughts and point of view.

I will agree that this Game/Novel is set in an extremely complex world and the characters within are vibrantly alive to me.

Whilst you say that they cannot be measured by dry numbers alone, I beg to differ. Please keep in mind that table reflects a snapshot in time and is a fair indicator to me of the direction that individuals are taking. It has nothing to do with Romance Paths or influence/interaction within that virtual world.

Leading up to the end of 6.2 we do see the "possibility" of change. Currently much, but not all, of the possible changes remain in the background. I believe Chapter 7 will bring those relationships to the foreground and also reap what we sowed during the first six chapters.

Thank you for pointing me to the Mistress Tess post. I actually missed it. It was interesting but for the most part *did not* relate to my "snap shot" opinion. That post mostly was related to the possible romance/partnership options within that world and how the individuals reacted to each other.

Mistress Tess specifically stated "note that good/evil can also tweak this but not included here". In my post I clearly pointed out my opinion on how Evil/Good the characters are up to the end of Chapter 6.2

Also take note, the post was from about a year and a half ago and Mistress Tess once again was clear that "my plans just to make it different since it's not set in stone, lol!".

Can the character change? I really never said they couldn't (except for calling Juliette a Psychopath). I think you missed the point of the information I opined. All it was is the way I see their Morality up to what we have been given. I did state if they were Sub/Dom/Switch and gave my personal opinion in the comments.

Now as for Veronica, we are miles apart on our opinions. Once again I was only stating primarily their morality up to the end of Chapter 6.2 and not the romance option. Don't get me wrong but I love her character.

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Spoiler: A Whole Lot Of Thoughts

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There is oh so much more but if you don't see her Sadism at this point, you never will. And that is ok too.

Is there good in her? Yes, I believe she can change. Remember a very short time span has passed since Kane came into the Facility. You cannot change a person who was so abused and seeing and living with an extremely Sadistic Father literally over night.

Thanks for listening,

Joseph

 

[Stan5851]

Thank you very much Stan5851 for your thoughts and point of view.

I will agree that this Game/Novel is set in an extremely complex world and the characters within are vibrantly alive to me.

Whilst you say that they cannot be measured by dry numbers alone, I beg to differ. Please keep in mind that table reflects a snapshot in time and is a fair indicator to me of the direction that individuals are taking. It has nothing to do with Romance Paths or influence/interaction within that virtual world.

Leading up to the end of 6.2 we do see the "possibility" of change. Currently much, but not all, of the possible changes remain in the background. I believe Chapter 7 will bring those relationships to the foreground and also reap what we sowed during the first six chapters.

Thank you for pointing me to the Mistress Tess post. I actually missed it. It was interesting but for the most part *did not* relate to my "snap shot" opinion. That post mostly was related to the possible romance/partnership options within that world and how the individuals reacted to each other.

Mistress Tess specifically stated "note that good/evil can also tweak this but not included here". In my post I clearly pointed out my opinion on how Evil/Good the characters are up to the end of Chapter 6.2

Also take note, the post was from about a year and a half ago and Mistress Tess once again was clear that "my plans just to make it different since it's not set in stone, lol!".

Can the character change? I really never said they couldn't (except for calling Juliette a Psychopath). I think you missed the point of the information I opined. All it was is the way I see their Morality up to what we have been given. I did state if they were Sub/Dom/Switch and gave my personal opinion in the comments.

Now as for Veronica, we are miles apart on our opinions. Once again I was only stating primarily their morality up to the end of Chapter 6.2 and not the romance option. Don't get me wrong but I love her character.

First of all, she suffers from Emotional Detachment. Here is a great clinical definition:

Symptoms of emotional detachment
People who are emotionally detached or removed may experience symptoms such as:

1. difficulty creating or maintaining personal relationships
2. a lack of attention, or appearing preoccupied when around others
3. difficulty being loving or affectionate with a family member
4. avoiding people, activities, or places because they’re associated with past trauma
5. reduced ability to express emotion
6. difficulty empathizing with another person’s feelings
7. not easily sharing emotions or feelings
8. difficulty committing to another person or a relationship
9. not making another person a priority when they should be

That pretty much checks all the boxes with Veronica. She suffered great trauma and was at the mercy of an extreme sadist (Alexander) growing up.

I did look at your post on Veronica. You do paint a lovely "and they lived happily ever after" picture. I truly would like that. She is a Genius. She suffered greatly at her Fathers hands. She basically wished that Callista was her Mom (and Callista blamed herself partially for the way Veronica turned out). Examples below (Gambit Queen = Callista, ?????? = Veronica):

Callista (To Veronica) "I know. And despite your obvious flexibility in...morality, you have become an amazing young woman"
Callista (To Veronica) "You have come a long way from our discussions at the park and trailer"
Veronica (To Callista) "Yes. I did appreciate that, as only you could keep up with my questions and thoughts. And, no one else understands me like you do...especially with...him"
Callista (To Veronica) "I understand and empathize. It couldn't have been easy. And I think your father hurt the entire world with how he treated you. How much it has lost already..."
Callista (To Veronica) "And I...I blame myself too. You had...have such a beautiful mind. And in his own twisted way, your father saw your greatness too...and was proud. I think you know that"
Veronica (To Callista) "I can't forgive or forget a few things. But let's stick to the present if you please"
.
.
.
Callista (To Veronica) "I hope he didn't kill you entirely. I'll always have hope and faith."

Veronica is meeting with Elena and Yvette in Alexander's old office. Veronica is telling them more of Alexanders wishes. This is in relation to Kane impregnating one (or more) of the Karlsson Sisters.

Veronica (To Elena, Yvette) "Let me make sure this little thing gets started cleaning this office." * With His Tongue Of Course *
Yvette (To Elena, Veronica) "Wait, is it ok to discuss what you have in mind with him around?"
Elena (To Veronica, Yvette) "All of her cleaners are now deaf. We should be fine."
Yvette (To Elena, Veronica) "But you have dozens of them, there is no way we have that many deaf people imprisoned...wait, you didn't..."
Elena (To Veronica, Yvette) "Yes, she did. She forcibly took their hearing away to ensure no valuable information ever got out."
Yvette (To Elena, Veronica) "That's brutal V.You really are your father's daughter..."
.
.
.
Veronica (To Elena, Yvette) "And it is a bit inhumane to make these servants deaf, but I must protect information at all costs."
Elena (To Veronica, Yvette) "Bullshit Veronica. You could easily hold any important meeting privately with no servants present. No risk at all. You're just hiding your cruelty better than a lot of us."
Veronica (To Elena, Yvette) "What ever my reasons, we are here for another purpose. I suggest we get to it.

Now to a scene with Dominique and Veronica in a sub-level of the Joy Facility:

Dominique (To Veronica) "Well it's nice to see you down here for once. It's been awhile. And thank you for juicing up lab slut here...he last hours and can't come at all."
.
.
.
Veronica (To Dominique) "I'm so absentminded sometimes. I...agree. I may...have an idea for that..."
.
.
.
Veronica (To Dominique) "And as for you, most people believe you simply lack the ruthlessness to do what is necessary at times in a harsh world."
Veronica (To Dominique) "But I don't worry about that at all. It's in there. And I think we both agree that what some may call evil or ruthless...can simply be...making a tough choices that require sacrifice."
.
.
.
Veronica (To Dominique) "But for now, I believe what I believe. Don't feel too bad Dominique...I suffer with a similar conflict internally. Both good and evil pulling on my soul everyday."

Next scene is at the "Zoo". Olivia, Kane, Dominique and Veronica are present:

Kane (To Dominique, Olivia, Veronica) "Looks like there are some cages down there for the lions. I guess they have to feed them some live animals."
Dominique (To Olivia, Kane, Veronica) "Yes. Although...it is also used as a severe punishment for those that betray the project."
Kane (To Dominique, Olivia, Veronica) "Shit, you mean people are fed to the lions?"
Veronica (To Dominique, Kane, Olivia) "It is very rare Kane. Most people helping on this project are trustworthy. But I think you'll agree it's an excellent deterrent."
.
.
.
Veronica (To Dominique, Kane, Olivia) "It's not to say that either of us are so moral and pure...we certainly have enjoyed the fruits of our power and day to day life."
Veronica (To Dominique, Kane, Olivia) "And humans are usually not so black and white. You can sometimes be...immoral, but still do something important like this project."
.
.
.
Veronica (To Dominique, Kane, Olivia) "But a word of caution. Don't assume this work is so nice and easy. Sometimes, there will be tough decisions required...in grey areas of morality."

Okie Dokie. My fingers hurt so I won't type any more quotes. Get the idea of her "Dark" Sadistic side yet? No quotes, but here are a few select things she has done.

Invented the pain chip(s). For control? Ok, maybe so. Extreme high levels of pain. Did she really need to create specific pain points targeting things like a penis? Punishment and pleasure for a vibrating cock during play time. And "punishments" are doled out more often than not for trivial issues and Sadistic pleasure.

Moving on, a liquid that can be applied or injected that produces extreme pain when the victim is even lightly touched. And a pleasure liquid to enhance the wearer with pleasure whilst tormenting the victim. Body coated in the pain liquid was tested with someone getting a body tattoo.

How about controlling the erections of the prisoners? Length? Time erect? Not you're average Viagra because it can prevent the male from ejaculating. Combine that with the liquid pain and that is extreme sadism. Veronica had no "good" purpose in life to do this.

Oh, she also was going to go along with the psychological and physical torment of Seth with Katsumi. Not totally her idea but she went along with it.

I almost forgot, she runs the Karlsson's Prison's. Pure Hell Holes that abuse the inmates physically and psychologically tortured. And don't forget they procure prisoners into the "Rehabilitation Program". Where most everyone fails, because they are set up to fail, and become either slaves or are killed.

Please, let's not forget her work with Dr. Chastian who is probably the worst Sadist in their world. Remember the spanking/paddling/pegging of Kane while his body was "enhanced" in the tank to feel any stimuli at an extreme level? Oh, while eating out Veronica?

There is oh so much more but if you don't see her Sadism at this point, you never will. And that is ok too.

Is there good in her? Yes, I believe she can change. Remember a very short time span has passed since Kane came into the Facility. You cannot change a person who was so abused and seeing and living with an extremely Sadistic Father literally over night.

Thanks for listening,

Joseph

Before I respond to you, please put your post under a spoiler. Not everyone who reads this thread has been through the game in its entirety, and for some, the same quotes you quoted will be an in-game spoiler. And on top of that, this size of post without a spoiler is pretty uncomfortable to view/read. Thank you for your understanding.

Spoiler

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[Leo Humilis]

And all we can do in this game situation is either try to kill the dragon or become a dragon ourselves.

...or embrace the Dragon and became her loyal servant.

 

[Liljoe757]

Before I respond to you, please put your post under a spoiler. Not everyone who reads this thread has been through the game in its entirety, and for some, the same quotes you quoted will be an in-game spoiler. And on top of that, this size of post without a spoiler is pretty uncomfortable to view/read. Thank you for your understanding.

Spoiler

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No problem Stan(?) I usually do add the SPOILER section but it just slipped my mind this time. I only tagged the part that is possibly not common knowledge.

If anything, this has/is been an interesting discussion. My main reason for that post was to clarify what my table of thoughts were all about and basically defend my opinion.

The "Veronica" section was to present (and perhaps defend) my feelings with her as we were clearly seeing different things.

Spoiler: More Rambling of the World in the Gambit

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Just to conclude an already long post. Each Player will find their own path (I have so many of them as I am a Switch who enjoys both the Dom/Sub roles). Even if someone is not a Switch, I think viewing an alternate lifestyle path would be beneficial. By hey, that's just me.

Thanks for listening,

Joseph

 

[PGpauljp13]

No problem Stan(?) I usually do add the SPOILER section but it just slipped my mind this time. I only tagged the part that is possibly not common knowledge.

If anything, this has/is been an interesting discussion. My main reason for that post was to clarify what my table of thoughts were all about and basically defend my opinion.

The "Veronica" section was to present (and perhaps defend) my feelings with her as we were clearly seeing different things.

Spoiler: More Rambling of the World in the Gambit

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Just to conclude an already long post. Each Player will find their own path (I have so many of them as I am a Switch who enjoys both the Dom/Sub roles). Even if someone is not a Switch, I think viewing an alternate lifestyle path would be beneficial. By hey, that's just me.

Thanks for listening,

Joseph

I am with you on Veronica did you note she is also the assassin/spy boss.The Viper girls boast of a lot! of kills.
With her "science" as well Veronica could be a bigger deathdealer than you know who.

 

[Kxca]

Thank you very much Stan5851 for your thoughts and point of view.

I will agree that this Game/Novel is set in an extremely complex world and the characters within are vibrantly alive to me.

Whilst you say that they cannot be measured by dry numbers alone, I beg to differ. Please keep in mind that table reflects a snapshot in time and is a fair indicator to me of the direction that individuals are taking. It has nothing to do with Romance Paths or influence/interaction within that virtual world.

Leading up to the end of 6.2 we do see the "possibility" of change. Currently much, but not all, of the possible changes remain in the background. I believe Chapter 7 will bring those relationships to the foreground and also reap what we sowed during the first six chapters.

Thank you for pointing me to the Mistress Tess post. I actually missed it. It was interesting but for the most part *did not* relate to my "snap shot" opinion. That post mostly was related to the possible romance/partnership options within that world and how the individuals reacted to each other.

Mistress Tess specifically stated "note that good/evil can also tweak this but not included here". In my post I clearly pointed out my opinion on how Evil/Good the characters are up to the end of Chapter 6.2

Also take note, the post was from about a year and a half ago and Mistress Tess once again was clear that "my plans just to make it different since it's not set in stone, lol!".

Can the character change? I really never said they couldn't (except for calling Juliette a Psychopath). I think you missed the point of the information I opined. All it was is the way I see their Morality up to what we have been given. I did state if they were Sub/Dom/Switch and gave my personal opinion in the comments.

Now as for Veronica, we are miles apart on our opinions. Once again I was only stating primarily their morality up to the end of Chapter 6.2 and not the romance option. Don't get me wrong but I love her character.

*********************************************************************************
​

Spoiler: A Whole Lot Of Thoughts

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*********************************************************************************​

There is oh so much more but if you don't see her Sadism at this point, you never will. And that is ok too.

Is there good in her? Yes, I believe she can change. Remember a very short time span has passed since Kane came into the Facility. You cannot change a person who was so abused and seeing and living with an extremely Sadistic Father literally over night.

Thanks for listening,

Joseph

I think Veronica is not necessarily evil. She's unethical in her experiments and indifferent to people's suffering, sure, but those are not out of malice in most cases.

A more detailed breakdown of how I view the examples you've stated

Spoiler

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