VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Cirelc]

Spoiler: Who is Nadia really?

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[leo5298]

I noticed a definite increase of CBT content, both verbal and physical, in this last patch, and I just wanted to say it's appreciated.

 

[Remembrance]

This relationship chart (v7) was published by Tess herself, so I'm pretty sure she's the one who made it, or at least (if she had someone helping her) approved of its content. So it's canon.

"I would also recommend using the relationship chart created by a great user Kxca, that highlights a lot of the characters with pictures, etc. It's just a nice chart to help keep track of every character." - From version 6 walkthrough. And yeah, it'd be canon since it should be based on game content. I remember v6 cole was speculation but v7 it is confirmed on the junko route so the chart should be updated. If dev released info not in game thru the chart, it'd be spoilers. So anything on the chart should be verifiable in-game.
I just didn't look at the v7 chart & try to find the source for the change in-game.
Huge thanks to Yotanbamix & f96zonetrooper who mentioned/quoted the scene

It's on the sub path if you go to the Black Room. Phoebe will tell Kane he has a sister.

I talked a lot about how it could have made sense for Veronica to be that sister (Callista would have been the mother), but the dev said no biological sister/brother sexual content, so it would leave Nadia. Astrid and Veronica aren't half-sisters too, they have the same parents, so if Astrid and Seth are siblings, it would mean he's also a Karlsson or Yvette's son (or another woman who isn't Callista).

Yeah. Forgot the "not half sisters" part. So Astrid should be available
Nadia makes sense, it'd the R+L=J situation, being raised by aunt/uncle.

Wasn't there someone speculating how Seth could be a Karlsson child?
So maybe the theory Karlsson did have a male heir, but was taken by Callista to ensure the gambit, could be true...
Only thing is Yvette didn't have any interest in Seth, like Elena & Olivia, so probably not the mom...
Edit: Olivia is not blood related to Seth so that rules out Karlsson too. Hmmm... Headache. Callista seems the easiest guess but, then I don't like the "2 Callista's son as back-up" theory.
Seth getting much better, we should have some reveals soon, hopefully.

As for the pregnancy thing, Kane got brand new information that his childhood was a lie, I wouldnt expect him to suddenly guess which person is his real brother or sister based on things he knows of his past. Same for Olivia, once she thought about it, she knew exactly who wasnt Callista's kid which is likely why she was so easily able to deduce/ accept that she was Elena's kid.

Seeing your mother pregnant with your younger sibling & giving birth to them wouldn't be so insignificant that you forget it. If they saw Seth's pregnancy & birth, they'd have known for sure, shocking information about childhood notwithstanding. So pregnancy confirmation by Olivia or MC is definitely out.

The game thrives on keeping things vague, so I can bet they didn't see Callista pregnant & have no definite proof.

Not so sure about Seth's parentage, but I just think it'd go with the flow so far if none of the Siblings were related. Seth being backup for the MC feels lazy for this game.
I think they were all gathered for the gambit by Callista & have their own roles instead of being back-ups.

But again, all speculation.
Only thing I feel certain about is they don't have concrete information about seeing Callista give birth to Seth. It's never mentioned even when they are wondering about it, so they are all in the dark - which makes for a more interesting mystery.

I noticed a definite increase of CBT content, both verbal and physical, in this last patch, and I just wanted to say it's appreciated.

Damn it. Hopefully we get to see some of it on the dom path through the game show...

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Spoiler: Who is Nadia really?

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I cant believe I missed the most obvious clue

Spoiler

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Seeing your mother pregnant with your younger sibling & giving birth to them wouldn't be so insignificant that you forget it. If they saw Seth's pregnancy & birth, they'd have known for sure, shocking information about childhood notwithstanding. So pregnancy confirmation by Olivia or MC is definitely out.

The game thrives on keeping things vague, so I can bet they didn't see Callista pregnant & have no definite proof.

Not so sure about Seth's parentage, but I just think it'd go with the flow so far if none of the Siblings were related. Seth being backup for the MC feels lazy for this game.
I think they were all gathered for the gambit by Callista & have their own roles instead of being back-ups.

But again, all speculation.
Only thing I feel certain about is they don't have concrete information about seeing Callista give birth to Seth. It's never mentioned even when they are wondering about it, so they are all in the dark - which makes for a more interesting mystery.


Damn it. Hopefully we get to see some of it on the dom path through the game show...

Has nothing to do with being insignificant and everything to do with being shocked with the knowledge that one of the people that you grew up with isnt really your sibling and your forgetting certain things in the moment.
There's legit no way that Callista would be able to hide adopting a whole ass child while raising two other kids. If theres a year between Kane and Seth, you could maybe explain away Kanes memory, but Olivia by that point is at least 4 or 5 so shed definitely know if Seth was adopted or not.

 

[Remembrance]

Has nothing to do with being insignificant and everything to do with being shocked with the knowledge that one of the people that you grew up with isnt really your sibling and your forgetting certain things in the moment.
There's legit no way that Callista would be able to hide adopting a whole ass child while raising two other kids. If theres a year between Kane and Seth, you could maybe explain away Kanes memory, but Olivia by that point is at least 4 or 5 so shed definitely know if Seth was adopted or not.

You get such a shocking knowledge about your sibling & the 1st thing your mind goes to will be your childhood & memories of your siblings. There's no way Olivia wouldn't immediately react if she had seen Callista pregnant when she was 4/5.
Rather her mind would immediately go there.
That's how relative memory works. If you hear something, you are likely to remember things related to it.

But you are correct about the adoption too. When her mind went there, she'd immediately remember that & react. (Though technically, a short 1 day event like adoption is more forgetable than a 10 month old event like pregnancy which leaves a huuge impact on everyday life.)
So I think the age difference is shorter than that probably. Knowing either way should have lead to much different dialogues, it makes more sense if they are not sure.
More realistic than forgetting your siblings birth when being told information about your siblings birth ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

Anyway, tired of arguing. Like I said, I'm only arguing the siblings aren't sure themselves who is Callista's child, reasons can be vague memory or smaller age gap or whatever. Unless it's mentioned in game they remember either way, it wouldn't make sense to me that they just forgot a significant 9 month event like pregnancy so easily, no matter what shocking info you get, especially if the info is related to that event ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯
So let's see later once more Seth info is released.

Edit: "(Though technically a short event like adoption is more forgetable than a 10 month old event like pregnancy which leaves a huuge impact on everyday life.)" This makes sense kinda, the more I think about it...
If a 4-5 year old child who doesn't yet know about stuff like pregnancy is introduced to a child one day as her brother, it'd probably not leave as much impact that she'd immediately remember it when told about Seth. However a 10 months long pregnancy - leading to major lifestyle changes, multiple visits to doctors/hospitals & a physical change of her mother for an extended amount of time- would not be so forgetable...
Thanks about the adoption point. Children are not that impacted by adoption at such an early age actually. (Quick 'this is your brother' situations, not when you explain everything & involve the child in the whole process ofc)
Not a concrete argument for sure but a decent theory maybe.

 

[| Vee |]

It just clicked my mind that there is fuckseth point so there might be fuckkane point in future too because of names of Gods but it is not looking as both MCs can be controlled by us and given how things are progressing between kane and olivia my this hypothesis should be truly wrong. I am rooting for kane and olivia!

 

[Remembrance]

It just clicked my mind that there is fuckseth point so there might be fuckkane point in future too because of names of Gods but it is not looking as both MCs can be controlled by us and given how things are progressing between kane and olivia my this hypothesis should be truly wrong. I am rooting for kane and olivia!

We all are

elif True: (chose Save Olivia)
scene e7shike44 with mediumdissolve
sis "My answer [pname]...is that I'd save you. It wasn't as difficult a choice as I thought..."
sis "I think I should have put more thought into it...but I still feel comfortable with my answer."
scene e7shike45 with mediumdissolve
sis "But you are so so right about me...I'm done being a downer now!"
sis "It was stupid and random of me to ask...let's just have some fun.

 

[gregers]

It is exactly the kind of bullshit hypothetical that a shitty girlfriend would try and trap you with.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

even though theres four choices, theres really only two answers to that question unless you want to see what happens with the other answers

 

[f96zonetrooper]

There's legit no way that Callista would be able to hide adopting a whole ass child while raising two other kids. If theres a year between Kane and Seth, you could maybe explain away Kanes memory, but Olivia by that point is at least 4 or 5 so shed definitely know if Seth was adopted or not.

There is a flashback scene where Callista lost "Luke" in "not-an-accident".
What if she was pregnant 20+ years ago, lost her baby and got baby Seth instead from whatever source ... the children would have seen her pregnant, go to hospital and return with a baby.

On the other side if Seth has the same biological parents as Kane, then he can fuck all the women Kane can fuck without violating the incest taboo ... easy for the dev. Seth just shouldn't fuck Kane.

 

[Remembrance]

There is a flashback scene where Callista lost "Luke" in "not-an-accident".
What if she was pregnant 20+ years ago, lost her baby and got baby Seth instead from whatever source ... the children would have seen her pregnant, go to hospital and return with a baby.

On the other side if Seth has the same biological parents as Kane, then he can fuck all the women Kane can fuck without violating the incest taboo ... easy for the dev. Seth just shouldn't fuck Kane.

Still runs into the whole never mentioning the pregnancy in game debate (just can't believe a person wouldn't immediately flashback to seeing their little sibling for the 1st time in their mothers arms after a life-changing 10-month wait, if told that person isn't their brother/sister)
But let's table that, since I can understand Miles point too.

Seth doesn't have a dom path yet & probably won't on the dom track, but might be considered as a counterpoint to the sub MC in the sub path (Like the dick comparison in the kiyomi scene).
So that might be worth taking into consideration.

Tbh there are pros to Seth being MC's replacement game setting wise, especially for the sub track. But I feel storywise it'd be better if Seth had a distinct identity/part in the gambit instead of being the 2nd son/replacement.
I'm actually open minded about Seth's origins (as in don't care), but am leaning slightly towards "3 siblings all not blood related" story-development-wise.

Seth certainly is intriguing in this aspect. Given his last scene in Island 4, I think it'll be better(more fun) to have this theory crafting in ep8, if that isn't fully occupied by the game show. We should get some clues from more Seth scenes.
Maybe someone remembers the pregnancy, or lack thereof. But your theory already threw a pebble into that pond (pregnancy confirmation)

PS: By a similar logic, Seth not being related to the MC might open up at least one option for Nadia...

 

[tarsgrim]

It is exactly the kind of bullshit hypothetical that a shitty girlfriend would try and trap you with.

we need an answer like i just wanna watch the galaxy burn

 

[tarsgrim]

Still runs into the whole never mentioning the pregnancy in game debate (just can't believe a person wouldn't immediately flashback to seeing their little sibling for the 1st time in their mothers arms after a life-changing 10-month wait, if told that person isn't their brother/sister)
But let's table that, since I can understand Miles point too.

Seth doesn't have a dom path yet & probably won't on the dom track, but might be considered as a counterpoint to the sub MC in the sub path (Like the dick comparison in the kiyomi scene).
So that might be worth taking into consideration.

Tbh there are pros to Seth being MC's replacement game setting wise, especially for the sub track. But I feel storywise it'd be better if Seth had a distinct identity/part in the gambit instead of being the 2nd son/replacement.
I'm actually open minded about Seth's origins (as in don't care), but am leaning slightly towards "3 siblings all not blood related" story-development-wise.

Seth certainly is intriguing in this aspect. Given his last scene in Island 4, I think it'll be better(more fun) to have this theory crafting in ep8, if that isn't fully occupied by the game show. We should get some clues from more Seth scenes.
Maybe someone remembers the pregnancy, or lack thereof. But your theory already threw a pebble into that pond (pregnancy confirmation)

PS: By a similar logic, Seth not being related to the MC might open up at least one option for Nadia...

My assumption implies that Calista is Nadia's mother and that there was an exchange of children at the time of delivery, with this we would have the sister identified and Seth is not blood related.

 

[Remembrance]

My assumption implies that Calista is Nadia's mother and that there was an exchange of children at the time of delivery, with this we would have the sister identified and Seth is not blood related.

Nice theory actually. That'd make Seth a DeKock, cementing his importance (kinda bothered me Seth was a random birth, even if Callista was one of the parents, see what I said about Callista being too important to get knocked up by random plebs)
So we'd have Karlsson (Olivia), Callista (MC) & DeKock (Seth)
(I'm kinda ignoring Cole cause his importance<<<Callista's & also because I still like to be sceptic about MC's birth)

It also muddies the timeline a bit for the pregnancy debate. Callista could be pregnant earlier(maybe nadia is MC's twin?), so they have very vague recollections of it, & then swapped a 2 year old for a new born. I don't think a 5 year old Olivia would notice that & since the pregnancy happened when she was 1-3 year old, the memory would be messy enough to not allow a confirmation either way (whether Callista was ever pregnant or not for Seth)

Hmmm....
But then Cynthia isn't showing any concern for her son like Elena did.
Or is she just that composed??
Tbh, I'd believe it, given how badass she is set up to be:
ph "The Karlsson Group is in a state of flux...with Alexander gone. And nothing personal...but neither of you are a match for Cynthia DeKock."
ph "Neither was Alexander to be frank. But your younger...candidates. I might be convinced...oh right there...to consider one of them."
scene e6bo8 with mediumdissolve
ph "I know your daughter doesn't want the mantle of leadership Yvette...but perhaps someone else...Elena?"
if phoebevote: (sub path)
ph "I have had the chance to observe [pname3]. My first impression of her is very good. I believe she might be the leader you need someday."
elif True: (dom path)
ph "I am most curious about [pname] and [pname3]. Both of them...such strong family history. And my first impressions of them did not discourage me."

 

[tarsgrim]

Nice theory actually. That'd make Seth a DeKock, cementing his importance (kinda bothered me Seth was a random birth, even if Callista was one of the parents, see what I said about Callista being too important to get knocked up by random plebs)
So we'd have Karlsson (Olivia), Callista (MC) & DeKock (Seth)
(I'm kinda ignoring Cole cause his importance<<<Callista's & also because I still like to be sceptic about MC's birth)

It also muddies the timeline a bit for the pregnancy debate. Callista could be pregnant earlier(maybe nadia is MC's twin?), so they have very vague recollections of it, & then swapped a 2 year old for a new born. I don't think a 5 year old Olivia would notice that & since the pregnancy happened when she was 1-3 year old, the memory would be messy enough to not allow a confirmation either way (whether Callista was ever pregnant or not for Seth)

Hmmm....
But then Cynthia isn't showing any concern for her son like Elena did.
Or is she just that composed??
Tbh, I'd believe it, given how badass she is set up to be:
The Karlsson Group is in a state of flux...with Alexander gone. And nothing personal...but neither of you are a match for Cynthia DeKock."
ph "Neither was Alexander to be frank. But your younger...candidates. I might be convinced...oh right there...to consider one of them."
scene e6bo8 with mediumdissolve
ph "I know your daughter doesn't want the mantle of leadership Yvette...but perhaps someone else...Elena?"
if phoebevote: (sub path)
ph "I have had the chance to observe [pname3]. My first impression of her is very good. I believe she might be the leader you need someday."
elif True: (dom path)
ph "I am most curious about [pname] and [pname3]. Both of them...such strong family history. And my first impressions of them did not discourage me."

Well Cynthia doesn't give a shit about her so-called children so if Seth were hers I wouldn't be surprised either. She is too focused on revenge against the Karlsons.
I think her thought is either you are useful to me or you are worthless

 

[f96zonetrooper]

If you go back to "gambitrevealone", it is obvious that Seth has a different role than Kane ... and Callista is most likely not Seth's mother. The gambit is about Kane and Karlsson's daughters to mix Callista's and Karlsson's blood. Seth is not considered to "mix" his blood ...

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[Remembrance]

If you go back to "gambitrevealone", it is obvious that Seth has a different role than Kane ... and Callista is most likely not Seth's mother. The gambit is about Kane and Karlsson's daughters to mix Callista's and Karlsson's blood. Seth is not considered to "mix" his blood ...

Spoiler

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Yes. This was one of the points that was behind my saying I don't think Seth is Callista's blood & MC's replacement. The storyline just doesn't fit that way.

Ofc it also means they know Seth is not Callista blood, otherwise they'd question Veronica about him. They probably know his true parentage too...

Cannot wait for MC to find out he has no family. Hope the dev drops it on the MC in quick succession (olivia & seth). Such a mind fuck to go from 2 siblings to none...

Also, this intrigues me : "If [pname] is worthy of power, he shall have it". Gives me hope MC can be the top of the hierarchy insted of only ever sharing power with the mother.

 

[gregers]

Spoiler

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So at this point, Elena doesn't know about Astrid being alive.

 

[tarsgrim]

Yes. This was one of the points that was behind my saying I don't think Seth is Callista's blood & MC's replacement. The storyline just doesn't fit that way.

Ofc it also means they know Seth is not Callista blood, otherwise they'd question Veronica about him. They probably know his true parentage too...

Cannot wait for MC to find out he has no family. Hope the dev drops it on the MC in quick succession (olivia & seth). Such a mind fuck to go from 2 siblings to none...

Also, this intrigues me : "If [pname] is worthy of power, he shall have it". Gives me hope MC can be the top of the hierarchy insted of only ever sharing power with the mother.

like i said i just wanna see the galaxy burn.
when the game its complete i gonna made a run for screw the gambit not knock up any karlson and blow up both companies

 

[lightalex]

So at this point, Elena doesn't know about Astrid being alive.

we see her wake up in later episode