VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.1 Part I] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Remembrance]

Reading that spoiler over just made me realize that Cynthias such a badass that she made michael take her name.
No idea why that just occurred to me

Michael's the DeKock kid right? Or his dad? Stefan will end up being a weak-willed incompetent jerk. In sub path cause he doesn't fit into the Femdom set-up & in dom path cause you can't allow another guy to circumvent the whole "only worthwhile man" thing the MC has going in every harem novel.
There's already a scene back in previous versions where She says he shouldn't be sure of his position:
cyn "Be quiet! Your lack of patience and wisdom only makes me that much more curious about him! Don't assume your future is set Stefan...it's not."
cyn "Any son of Cole and Callista is important to me...for obvious reasons."

If Kane has some points with Delilah (delilah_p >= 2), they have sex (creampie) in E5 in Kane's cell.
If Cole is Kane's father and Cynthia is Delilah's mother, then Kane and Delilah are cousins ... so maybe Cole should not be Kane's father to avoid cousin incest?

cyn "And Delilah, I trust you have not gotten too...close to anyone? And especially...you haven't fucked [pname]?"
de "No Mother, of course not!"

This was probably an early clue to many ppl thinking that Cole was related to the Dekocks.
I still think there's more than meets the eye here though, since the pier scene seemed intentionally vague about stating the guy as the father...
So what Cynthia thinks she knows about MC's parentage might not be the truth

Anyway, the answer you'll get here is about whether cousin incest counts & whether the dev included that when saying no incest.

So with the new informantion of Kane having a sister, that means Cole has a daughter which ironically enough now shines a light upon something else I just mentioned today. If what Alessandra said was true and she only has 4 sisters, and if Veronica calls Astrid her sister, than that means that Veronica and Astrid have the same mother but different fathers. If both kids father is Cole that solves that particular mystery quite nicely.

Oh, where's that info from??

Also, another thought I've had after learning about Astrid: Seth's condition seems to be a rare genetic condition & now we have 2 ppl with that condition. I wondered if they shared a parent or 2.

Also, Astrid & Kane cannot share a parent if there will be anything sexual between them, so hope not.
And if Astrid & Seth share a parent, that means Kane cannot be related to him either
--------

As for Cole being a dekock, Tess put his name like that in her relationship chart, so thats pretty much makes it canon.

Also I think the relationship charts are fan-made. Basically they are updated as we get more info I think. Releasing a chart with info not yet in-game would be huuuge spoilers. It was confirmed in this chapter but I think the old chart I saw (I haven't seen ch7 version of the chart) wasn't sure of it, hence my views on it being outdated (junko romance is such a narrow path).

Kane is the child of two of the founders, his blood is infinitely more valuable than seth. Besides seth isnt even in a good enough condition to go through the gambit, it makes plenty of sense that they'd prefer Kane to Seth at the moment.

Alexander was obsessed with Callista. Given his bestfriend knocked up his lover, I'd argue he'd prefer a child of Callista not related to Cole if such an option was available. Sure he's dead & might not have known about Seth & all that, but still, I don't agree with the less valueable theory.
After all it's Callista. I don't think any man she has a child with can be called of no consequence. Just look at her importance in the story.
Sure the genetic condition can be a factor, but limiting Callista's blood to one person would make the stakes higher.

So storywise it makes more sense if Kane was Callista's only blood-related child & she didn't get knocked up by another guy after leaving.
Also the hacker, most likely nadia, saying only the MC's blood can unlock the bracelet. (Though MC atm thought Seth& Olivia was Callista's blood too )


Here's pros for a wild theory:

Spoiler

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Anyway, it's all pretty vague.
I still think the 3 characters being not blood related would make for a better story.
I think 3 unrelated but raised together siblings would make the best storyline, & the key to the gambit should be only 1, no back-ups.
So Seth shouldn't be MC's back-up, but have another role in the gambit(Olivia too).

I think the 3 should be evenly unrelated, & not that MC & Seth are related but not Olivia.

PS:

Not really, Olivia was already well on her way to figuring out Callista wasnt her mother, and unless Im on the wrong path, I dont even think that Kane received that information yet.

Seth-Kane convo:
p "Yeah, I trust your gut if you think so. So unless neither of you is Mom's...she's not a biological mother to one of you. Did she say who?"
scene e6sdress12 with mediumdissolve
bro "No, and I don't believe she knows. I personally suspect she's not Mom's real daughter...given her rapid rise and situation compared to us."
bro "And that might impact you too...just think about it logically. You're not related the same way to one of us by default."

If Kane had seen Callista pregnant with Seth he wouldn't question who the unrelated child was. So it means Kane isn't sure if either Seth or Olivia is Callista's child, making the argument that he saw Callista pregnant void.

Olivia-Elena convo:
sis "He's not? How do you know for sure?"
ec "I just confirmed it with Veronica Karlsson. There is no doubt about this fact. She would not lie to me about something like this..."
sis "But how? And does he know?"
ec "No."
sis "Wow."
Olivia-Seth convo:
bro "But wait...what about [pname]? And Mom? That means that at least one of us isn't her biological child either. Which one of us isn't?"
sis "(He's...he's right! I was so shocked...didn't even think of it when told...) I...I don't know. I'll try and find out."

If either Kane or Olivia saw Callista pregnant with Seth, they'd have that confirmed. Yet all 3 are looking it from every angle. Ergo, they are not sure Seth is Callista's son by birth.

 

[lightalex]

In Ep7 Phoebe tells sub MC he has a Sister, and seems not to mention it is Olivia.
Perhaps Callista was pregnant with the Sister.
Or Sister is Coles Daugther with another Women?
Cole and one of AK Sisters?

 

[Remembrance]

In Ep7 Phoebe tells sub MC he has a Sister, and seems not to mention it is Olivia.
Perhaps Callista was pregnant with the Sister.
Or Sister is Coles Daugther with another Women?
Cole and one of AK Sisters?

Damn it, so much info in the sub route ༎ຶ⁠‿⁠༎ຶ
Let me try to find & I'll edit this afterwards
Edit: Found it:
ph "...you have a sister."
p "Umm, I know that Mistress?"
ph "Do you? Maybe I'm still doing you a favor..."
Hope it's not astrid, I liked her
Also, can it be one of the face hidden characters?
Anyway, I'm sure the sister will be a great character & then everyone will cry at the no incest rule ༎ຶ⁠‿⁠༎ຶ༎ຶ⁠‿⁠༎ຶ༎ຶ⁠‿⁠༎ຶ

 

[lightalex]

Damn it, so much info in the sub route ༎ຶ⁠‿⁠༎ຶ
Let me try to find & I'll edit this afterwards
Edit: Found it:
ph "...you have a sister."
p "Umm, I know that Mistress?"
ph "Do you? Maybe I'm still doing you a favor..."
Hope it's not astrid, I liked her
Also, can it be one of the face hidden characters?
Anyway, I'm sure the sister will be a great character & then everyone will cry at the no incest rule ༎ຶ⁠‿⁠༎ຶ༎ຶ⁠‿⁠༎ຶ༎ຶ⁠‿⁠༎ຶ

The two masked Women could be the Sisters of AK, they where Triplets (Veronica tells Olivia)
When Otto meets Nadia in her Room with the masked Women, she acts like a Teenager about her messy Room.
Tennager when Mother/ Aunt vist

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Michael's the DeKock kid right? Or his dad? Stefan will end up being a weak-willed incompetent jerk. In sub path cause he doesn't fit into the Femdom set-up & in dom path cause you can't allow another guy to circumvent the whole "only worthwhile man" thing the MC has going in every harem novel.
There's already a scene back in previous versions where She says he shouldn't be sure of his position:
cyn "Be quiet! Your lack of patience and wisdom only makes me that much more curious about him! Don't assume your future is set Stefan...it's not."
cyn "Any son of Cole and Callista is important to me...for obvious reasons."


cyn "And Delilah, I trust you have not gotten too...close to anyone? And especially...you haven't fucked [pname]?"
de "No Mother, of course not!"

This was probably an early clue to many ppl thinking that Cole was related to the Dekocks.
I still think there's more than meets the eye here though, since the pier scene seemed intentionally vague about stating the guy as the father...
So what Cynthia thinks she knows about MC's parentage might not be the truth

Anyway, the answer you'll get here is about whether cousin incest counts & whether the dev included that when saying no incest.


Oh, where's that info from??

Also, another thought I've had after learning about Astrid: Seth's condition seems to be a rare genetic condition & now we have 2 ppl with that condition. I wondered if they shared a parent or 2.

Also, Astrid & Kane cannot share a parent if there will be anything sexual between them, so hope not.
And if Astrid & Seth share a parent, that means Kane cannot be related to him either
--------

Also I think the relationship charts are fan-made. Basically they are updated as we get more info I think. Releasing a chart with info not yet in-game would be huuuge spoilers. It was confirmed in this chapter but I think the old chart I saw (I haven't seen ch7 version of the chart) wasn't sure of it, hence my views on it being outdated (junko romance is such a narrow path).

Alexander was obsessed with Callista. Given his bestfriend knocked up his lover, I'd argue he'd prefer a child of Callista not related to Cole if such an option was available. Sure he's dead & might not have known about Seth & all that, but still, I don't agree with the less valueable theory.
After all it's Callista. I don't think any man she has a child with can be called of no consequence. Just look at her importance in the story.
Sure the genetic condition can be a factor, but limiting Callista's blood to one person would make the stakes higher.

So storywise it makes more sense if Kane was Callista's only blood-related child & she didn't get knocked up by another guy after leaving.
Also the hacker, most likely nadia, saying only the MC's blood can unlock the bracelet. (Though MC atm thought Seth& Olivia was Callista's blood too )


Here's pros for a wild theory:

Spoiler

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Anyway, it's all pretty vague.
I still think the 3 characters being not blood related would make for a better story.
I think 3 unrelated but raised together siblings would make the best storyline, & the key to the gambit should be only 1, no back-ups.
So Seth shouldn't be MC's back-up, but have another role in the gambit(Olivia too).

I think the 3 should be evenly unrelated, & not that MC & Seth are related but not Olivia.

PS:

Seth-Kane convo:
p "Yeah, I trust your gut if you think so. So unless neither of you is Mom's...she's not a biological mother to one of you. Did she say who?"
scene e6sdress12 with mediumdissolve
bro "No, and I don't believe she knows. I personally suspect she's not Mom's real daughter...given her rapid rise and situation compared to us."
bro "And that might impact you too...just think about it logically. You're not related the same way to one of us by default."

If Kane had seen Callista pregnant with Seth he wouldn't question who the unrelated child was. So it means Kane isn't sure if either Seth or Olivia is Callista's child, making the argument that he saw Callista pregnant void.

Olivia-Elena convo:
sis "He's not? How do you know for sure?"
ec "I just confirmed it with Veronica Karlsson. There is no doubt about this fact. She would not lie to me about something like this..."
sis "But how? And does he know?"
ec "No."
sis "Wow."
Olivia-Seth convo:
bro "But wait...what about [pname]? And Mom? That means that at least one of us isn't her biological child either. Which one of us isn't?"
sis "(He's...he's right! I was so shocked...didn't even think of it when told...) I...I don't know. I'll try and find out."

If either Kane or Olivia saw Callista pregnant with Seth, they'd have that confirmed. Yet all 3 are looking it from every angle. Ergo, they are not sure Seth is Callista's son by birth.

To answer your first question, Michael is the husband.
Im fairly certain those charts are made by tess, but even if they arent Coles verified to be a decock on the good dom route if you're dating junko
As for the pregnancy thing, Kane got brand new information that his childhood was a lie, I wouldnt expect him to suddenly guess which person is his real brother or sister based on things he knows of his past. Same for Olivia, once she thought about it, she knew exactly who wasnt Callista's kid which is likely why she was so easily able to deduce/ accept that she was Elena's kid.

 

[Yotanbamix]

Oh, where's that info from??

Also, another thought I've had after learning about Astrid: Seth's condition seems to be a rare genetic condition & now we have 2 ppl with that condition. I wondered if they shared a parent or 2.

Also, Astrid & Kane cannot share a parent if there will be anything sexual between them, so hope not.
And if Astrid & Seth share a parent, that means Kane cannot be related to him either

It's on the sub path if you go to the Black Room. Phoebe will tell Kane he has a sister.

I talked a lot about how it could have made sense for Veronica to be that sister (Callista would have been the mother), but the dev said no biological sister/brother sexual content, so it would leave Nadia. Astrid and Veronica aren't half-sisters too, they have the same parents, so if Astrid and Seth are siblings, it would mean he's also a Karlsson or Yvette's son (or another woman who isn't Callista).

 

[Stan5851]

Also I think the relationship charts are fan-made. Basically they are updated as we get more info I think. Releasing a chart with info not yet in-game would be huuuge spoilers.

This relationship chart (v7) was published by Tess herself, so I'm pretty sure she's the one who made it, or at least (if she had someone helping her) approved of its content. So it's canon.

 

[Cirelc]

Spoiler: Who is Nadia really?

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[leo5298]

I noticed a definite increase of CBT content, both verbal and physical, in this last patch, and I just wanted to say it's appreciated.

 

[Remembrance]

This relationship chart (v7) was published by Tess herself, so I'm pretty sure she's the one who made it, or at least (if she had someone helping her) approved of its content. So it's canon.

"I would also recommend using the relationship chart created by a great user Kxca, that highlights a lot of the characters with pictures, etc. It's just a nice chart to help keep track of every character." - From version 6 walkthrough. And yeah, it'd be canon since it should be based on game content. I remember v6 cole was speculation but v7 it is confirmed on the junko route so the chart should be updated. If dev released info not in game thru the chart, it'd be spoilers. So anything on the chart should be verifiable in-game.
I just didn't look at the v7 chart & try to find the source for the change in-game.
Huge thanks to Yotanbamix & f96zonetrooper who mentioned/quoted the scene

It's on the sub path if you go to the Black Room. Phoebe will tell Kane he has a sister.

I talked a lot about how it could have made sense for Veronica to be that sister (Callista would have been the mother), but the dev said no biological sister/brother sexual content, so it would leave Nadia. Astrid and Veronica aren't half-sisters too, they have the same parents, so if Astrid and Seth are siblings, it would mean he's also a Karlsson or Yvette's son (or another woman who isn't Callista).

Yeah. Forgot the "not half sisters" part. So Astrid should be available
Nadia makes sense, it'd the R+L=J situation, being raised by aunt/uncle.

Wasn't there someone speculating how Seth could be a Karlsson child?
So maybe the theory Karlsson did have a male heir, but was taken by Callista to ensure the gambit, could be true...
Only thing is Yvette didn't have any interest in Seth, like Elena & Olivia, so probably not the mom...
Edit: Olivia is not blood related to Seth so that rules out Karlsson too. Hmmm... Headache. Callista seems the easiest guess but, then I don't like the "2 Callista's son as back-up" theory.
Seth getting much better, we should have some reveals soon, hopefully.

As for the pregnancy thing, Kane got brand new information that his childhood was a lie, I wouldnt expect him to suddenly guess which person is his real brother or sister based on things he knows of his past. Same for Olivia, once she thought about it, she knew exactly who wasnt Callista's kid which is likely why she was so easily able to deduce/ accept that she was Elena's kid.

Seeing your mother pregnant with your younger sibling & giving birth to them wouldn't be so insignificant that you forget it. If they saw Seth's pregnancy & birth, they'd have known for sure, shocking information about childhood notwithstanding. So pregnancy confirmation by Olivia or MC is definitely out.

The game thrives on keeping things vague, so I can bet they didn't see Callista pregnant & have no definite proof.

Not so sure about Seth's parentage, but I just think it'd go with the flow so far if none of the Siblings were related. Seth being backup for the MC feels lazy for this game.
I think they were all gathered for the gambit by Callista & have their own roles instead of being back-ups.

But again, all speculation.
Only thing I feel certain about is they don't have concrete information about seeing Callista give birth to Seth. It's never mentioned even when they are wondering about it, so they are all in the dark - which makes for a more interesting mystery.

I noticed a definite increase of CBT content, both verbal and physical, in this last patch, and I just wanted to say it's appreciated.

Damn it. Hopefully we get to see some of it on the dom path through the game show...

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Spoiler: Who is Nadia really?

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I cant believe I missed the most obvious clue

Spoiler

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Seeing your mother pregnant with your younger sibling & giving birth to them wouldn't be so insignificant that you forget it. If they saw Seth's pregnancy & birth, they'd have known for sure, shocking information about childhood notwithstanding. So pregnancy confirmation by Olivia or MC is definitely out.

The game thrives on keeping things vague, so I can bet they didn't see Callista pregnant & have no definite proof.

Not so sure about Seth's parentage, but I just think it'd go with the flow so far if none of the Siblings were related. Seth being backup for the MC feels lazy for this game.
I think they were all gathered for the gambit by Callista & have their own roles instead of being back-ups.

But again, all speculation.
Only thing I feel certain about is they don't have concrete information about seeing Callista give birth to Seth. It's never mentioned even when they are wondering about it, so they are all in the dark - which makes for a more interesting mystery.


Damn it. Hopefully we get to see some of it on the dom path through the game show...

Has nothing to do with being insignificant and everything to do with being shocked with the knowledge that one of the people that you grew up with isnt really your sibling and your forgetting certain things in the moment.
There's legit no way that Callista would be able to hide adopting a whole ass child while raising two other kids. If theres a year between Kane and Seth, you could maybe explain away Kanes memory, but Olivia by that point is at least 4 or 5 so shed definitely know if Seth was adopted or not.

 

[Remembrance]

Has nothing to do with being insignificant and everything to do with being shocked with the knowledge that one of the people that you grew up with isnt really your sibling and your forgetting certain things in the moment.
There's legit no way that Callista would be able to hide adopting a whole ass child while raising two other kids. If theres a year between Kane and Seth, you could maybe explain away Kanes memory, but Olivia by that point is at least 4 or 5 so shed definitely know if Seth was adopted or not.

You get such a shocking knowledge about your sibling & the 1st thing your mind goes to will be your childhood & memories of your siblings. There's no way Olivia wouldn't immediately react if she had seen Callista pregnant when she was 4/5.
Rather her mind would immediately go there.
That's how relative memory works. If you hear something, you are likely to remember things related to it.

But you are correct about the adoption too. When her mind went there, she'd immediately remember that & react. (Though technically, a short 1 day event like adoption is more forgetable than a 10 month old event like pregnancy which leaves a huuge impact on everyday life.)
So I think the age difference is shorter than that probably. Knowing either way should have lead to much different dialogues, it makes more sense if they are not sure.
More realistic than forgetting your siblings birth when being told information about your siblings birth ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

Anyway, tired of arguing. Like I said, I'm only arguing the siblings aren't sure themselves who is Callista's child, reasons can be vague memory or smaller age gap or whatever. Unless it's mentioned in game they remember either way, it wouldn't make sense to me that they just forgot a significant 9 month event like pregnancy so easily, no matter what shocking info you get, especially if the info is related to that event ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯
So let's see later once more Seth info is released.

Edit: "(Though technically a short event like adoption is more forgetable than a 10 month old event like pregnancy which leaves a huuge impact on everyday life.)" This makes sense kinda, the more I think about it...
If a 4-5 year old child who doesn't yet know about stuff like pregnancy is introduced to a child one day as her brother, it'd probably not leave as much impact that she'd immediately remember it when told about Seth. However a 10 months long pregnancy - leading to major lifestyle changes, multiple visits to doctors/hospitals & a physical change of her mother for an extended amount of time- would not be so forgetable...
Thanks about the adoption point. Children are not that impacted by adoption at such an early age actually. (Quick 'this is your brother' situations, not when you explain everything & involve the child in the whole process ofc)
Not a concrete argument for sure but a decent theory maybe.

 

[| Vee |]

It just clicked my mind that there is fuckseth point so there might be fuckkane point in future too because of names of Gods but it is not looking as both MCs can be controlled by us and given how things are progressing between kane and olivia my this hypothesis should be truly wrong. I am rooting for kane and olivia!

 

[Remembrance]

It just clicked my mind that there is fuckseth point so there might be fuckkane point in future too because of names of Gods but it is not looking as both MCs can be controlled by us and given how things are progressing between kane and olivia my this hypothesis should be truly wrong. I am rooting for kane and olivia!

We all are

elif True: (chose Save Olivia)
scene e7shike44 with mediumdissolve
sis "My answer [pname]...is that I'd save you. It wasn't as difficult a choice as I thought..."
sis "I think I should have put more thought into it...but I still feel comfortable with my answer."
scene e7shike45 with mediumdissolve
sis "But you are so so right about me...I'm done being a downer now!"
sis "It was stupid and random of me to ask...let's just have some fun.

 

[gregers]

It is exactly the kind of bullshit hypothetical that a shitty girlfriend would try and trap you with.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

even though theres four choices, theres really only two answers to that question unless you want to see what happens with the other answers

 

[f96zonetrooper]

There's legit no way that Callista would be able to hide adopting a whole ass child while raising two other kids. If theres a year between Kane and Seth, you could maybe explain away Kanes memory, but Olivia by that point is at least 4 or 5 so shed definitely know if Seth was adopted or not.

There is a flashback scene where Callista lost "Luke" in "not-an-accident".
What if she was pregnant 20+ years ago, lost her baby and got baby Seth instead from whatever source ... the children would have seen her pregnant, go to hospital and return with a baby.

On the other side if Seth has the same biological parents as Kane, then he can fuck all the women Kane can fuck without violating the incest taboo ... easy for the dev. Seth just shouldn't fuck Kane.

 

[Remembrance]

There is a flashback scene where Callista lost "Luke" in "not-an-accident".
What if she was pregnant 20+ years ago, lost her baby and got baby Seth instead from whatever source ... the children would have seen her pregnant, go to hospital and return with a baby.

On the other side if Seth has the same biological parents as Kane, then he can fuck all the women Kane can fuck without violating the incest taboo ... easy for the dev. Seth just shouldn't fuck Kane.

Still runs into the whole never mentioning the pregnancy in game debate (just can't believe a person wouldn't immediately flashback to seeing their little sibling for the 1st time in their mothers arms after a life-changing 10-month wait, if told that person isn't their brother/sister)
But let's table that, since I can understand Miles point too.

Seth doesn't have a dom path yet & probably won't on the dom track, but might be considered as a counterpoint to the sub MC in the sub path (Like the dick comparison in the kiyomi scene).
So that might be worth taking into consideration.

Tbh there are pros to Seth being MC's replacement game setting wise, especially for the sub track. But I feel storywise it'd be better if Seth had a distinct identity/part in the gambit instead of being the 2nd son/replacement.
I'm actually open minded about Seth's origins (as in don't care), but am leaning slightly towards "3 siblings all not blood related" story-development-wise.

Seth certainly is intriguing in this aspect. Given his last scene in Island 4, I think it'll be better(more fun) to have this theory crafting in ep8, if that isn't fully occupied by the game show. We should get some clues from more Seth scenes.
Maybe someone remembers the pregnancy, or lack thereof. But your theory already threw a pebble into that pond (pregnancy confirmation)

PS: By a similar logic, Seth not being related to the MC might open up at least one option for Nadia...

 

[tarsgrim]

It is exactly the kind of bullshit hypothetical that a shitty girlfriend would try and trap you with.

we need an answer like i just wanna watch the galaxy burn

 

[tarsgrim]

Still runs into the whole never mentioning the pregnancy in game debate (just can't believe a person wouldn't immediately flashback to seeing their little sibling for the 1st time in their mothers arms after a life-changing 10-month wait, if told that person isn't their brother/sister)
But let's table that, since I can understand Miles point too.

Seth doesn't have a dom path yet & probably won't on the dom track, but might be considered as a counterpoint to the sub MC in the sub path (Like the dick comparison in the kiyomi scene).
So that might be worth taking into consideration.

Tbh there are pros to Seth being MC's replacement game setting wise, especially for the sub track. But I feel storywise it'd be better if Seth had a distinct identity/part in the gambit instead of being the 2nd son/replacement.
I'm actually open minded about Seth's origins (as in don't care), but am leaning slightly towards "3 siblings all not blood related" story-development-wise.

Seth certainly is intriguing in this aspect. Given his last scene in Island 4, I think it'll be better(more fun) to have this theory crafting in ep8, if that isn't fully occupied by the game show. We should get some clues from more Seth scenes.
Maybe someone remembers the pregnancy, or lack thereof. But your theory already threw a pebble into that pond (pregnancy confirmation)

PS: By a similar logic, Seth not being related to the MC might open up at least one option for Nadia...

My assumption implies that Calista is Nadia's mother and that there was an exchange of children at the time of delivery, with this we would have the sister identified and Seth is not blood related.