VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Maviarab]

You don't *have to* identify in anything, it's a game.. you are outside of the freaking game.
That's exacly what I meant when I said I don't understand when people don't get that
You can have preferences of course, but there's no other obligations required
So no, there's plenty of people that can play a game without identifying themselves in the MC.

Identifying with the MC is completely irelevent,...and that is what you are missing (and I sure as hell don't identify with our MC in KG because at times he's an utter fucking clueless moron). Do you watch femdom porn? No different to a VN if you are not self-inserting.

So yes, content is paramount and the only thing that matters, if you can't 'identify' with the protaganist/setting/content of any type of media, be it a VN, Film, TV show, book...you're just not going to get enjoyment out of it. I don't watch period drama's because they just literally do nothing for me at all. Likewise, I will never watch femdom porn...which leads us back to certain paths in KG because people who are diametrically opposite something themselves will never enjoy content of the opposite.

So yes, it really is everything.

 

[Mwanted]

Identifying with the MC is completely irelevent,...and that is what you are missing (and I sure as hell don't identify with our MC in KG because at times he's an utter fucking clueless moron). Do you watch femdom porn? No different to a VN if you are not self-inserting.

So yes, content is paramount and the only thing that matters, if you can't 'identify' with the protaganist/setting/content of any type of media, be it a VN, Film, TV show, book...you're just not going to get enjoyment out of it. I don't watch period drama's because they just literally do nothing for me at all. Likewise, I will never watch femdom porn...which leads us back to certain paths in KG because people who are diametrically opposite something themselves will never enjoy content of the opposite.

So yes, it really is everything.

No, I disagree. You can totally play a roleplaying game like a "third person", so experimenting making the MC do this or that, create different MCs with different characteristics and play and have fun without having to identify in jack shit.
Maybe, like you suggest, it may be different in another media (where you are more "passive", like tv), but in ropleplaying (video)games it's like I said.

 

[Maviarab]

No, I disagree. You can totally play a roleplaying game like a "third person", so experimenting making the MC do this or that, create different MCs with different characteristics and play and have fun without having to identify in jack shit.
Maybe, like you suggest, it may be different in another media (where you are more "passive", like tv), but in ropleplaying games it's like I said.

We shall have to very much agree to disagree then..

 

[lemonfreak]

We shall have to very much agree to disagree then..

You could do that but that's really just a way of saying "I'm right, you're wrong but we're going to stop talking about it"

Instead you could try accepting that the way you experience the work is not the only way to do so, that those of us who can play through a story from a god's eye perspective, get just as much from it as those who need to inhabit the character (which you don't) or identify with a route (which you seem to) and that these differences are equally valid

 

[Maviarab]

You could do that but that's really just a way of saying "I'm right, you're wrong but we're going to stop talking about it"

Instead you could try accepting that the way you experience the work is not the only way to do so, that those of us who can play through a story from a god's eye perspective, get just as much from it as those who need to inhabit the character (which you don't) or identify with a route (which you seem to) and that these differences are equally valid

Profiling me are we?

No, it's me saying we will have to disgree, nothing more, nothing less and continuing the back and forth will get neither of us anywhere, so better to just leave it. I could add that if he was an actual dominant or submissive (neither of which are actually in KG anyway) then he he would understood with perfect clarity. But he isn't, so he won't.

So I do accept how he see's things and they differ from how I do. So agreeing to disagree because carrying on is futile. Would you have preferred it if I said we're never going to see each other's perspective so perhaps better to leave this subject? Would that have made you feel any less superior in trying to call me out?

Anything else you would like to try and interject?

 

[Stan5851]

No, I disagree. You can totally play a roleplaying game like a "third person", so experimenting making the MC do this or that, create different MCs with different characteristics and play and have fun without having to identify in jack shit.
Maybe, like you suggest, it may be different in another media (where you are more "passive", like tv), but in ropleplaying (video)games it's like I said.

Let's go in order.
1. AVNs are generally not RPGs, and I believe that role-playing in such games is a matter of personal preference and generally not necessary at all. (imo)

2. However, therein lies the problem. Even if you try to play 3rd person in an AVN game (even with a female protagonist!) and be some sort of invisible observer of the MC's fate, it's still very hard to give up ownership of what happens to your character. You can't cut off empathy, compassion, anger, joy, and other feelings and emotions with a knife and just be the "cool unemotional guy from
Equilibrium" from beginning to end.

And that means that one way or another you will react to what happens to your MC, and that's where your true feelings will come to the surface, which you won't be able to drown out with the soothing mantra - "but I'm just an observer", because even while observing and not getting into the character, the player is still worried about what's going on. Because you control him, you are responsible for what he will choose and how he will act.... and that bond cannot be broken on every emotional and mental level. Yeah, like Maviarab, I don't identify with KaneDom either, because he does act like a chump and even a jerk at times... BUT! He's MY chump and MY jerk!... and I don't want him humiliated by some leather clad bitch who was lucky enough to be born with a golden spoon up her arse.

You can call it "identification" or whatever you want, but I don't see how it's possible (for me) to sit on two chairs at once, and my deeper self invariably started protesting vigorously even when I was just running a couple of sub-scenes with Kane via Sancho Mod Gallery (to find out more about his real sister). So here I tend to agree with Maviarab that without a connection to the character (even if only on a subconscious level) you just don't get any enjoyment.

 

[gregers]

Being dominant or submissive is a state of being...existing...it's not something you just turn on or off like a 'switch'. It's just something within you. People are, naturally either dominant or submissive, especially sexually.

That's just plain wrong. Tastes can and do change over time. I was heavily into femdom (as well as femsub) when I was younger, probably what one'd call a switch, but these days my tastes usually don't run in that direction any longer.

... Mass Effect, and the fan base sticks to either a mainly Paragon or mainly Renegade style of play, even on replays, few players will replay just to see the opposite choices, and even fewer will actually enjoy playing both sides.

Reasonable people can disagree about dom, sub, or vanilla, no accounting for taste.

But anyone playing Mass Effect: The Proper Ones as anything other than Renegade FemShep Vanguard is just obscenely wrong, perverted, and should probably be locked up at minimum, to protect Society and The Children.

 

[Sharpshooter890]

I try to play through all the routes for the sake of story, but most of them don't resonate with me. For example, being cruel to Amy or checking out K1 and subK5 is not something I enjoy or even like, but I can tolerate it just fine, because I don't relate to MC on those routes. He's like a test subject in an experiment, nothing more.
The same holds true for normal games, like Mass Effect or KotoR - my Shepard would never screw Wrex in ME3 or shoot Mordin, but a test Shep might.

 

[actoreg]

yep looks like we're losing the evil path

It would be very bad.
(Mostly playing dom Kane with most evil choices for him and for Olivia)

 

[Mr. Chatty]

It would be very bad.
(Mostly playing dom Kane with most evil choices for him and for Olivia)

On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad would it be?

 

[Bloker997]

On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad would it be?

like 2,5

 

[SubFork]

Sub fork

 

[Zenith_11]

I know that the removal of the extreme evil will primarily affect the extreme scenes with Kane and Olivia(demon & demoness path). So there will still be a good amount of dom/evil content remaining. I don't mind losing the content with Olivia that much tbh since I am doing a Juliette route. How will the Kane's interactions with her change?

Will Juliette scenes be watered down to be more vanilla? Will her scenes rewritten as a result of this change?

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[Maviarab]

I know that the removal of the extreme evil will primarily affect the extreme scenes with Kane and Olivia(demon & demoness path). So there will still be a good amount of dom/evil content remaining. I don't mind losing the content with Olivia that much tbh since I am doing a Juliette route. How will the Kane's interactions with her change?

Will Juliette scenes be watered down to be more vanilla? Will her scenes rewritten as a result of this change?

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Unlikely. IF...if...the extreme gets removed (which is/was/would be flagged by the demon flags) then the rest will not change. The evil path is staying...she has not once mentioned dropping it. Just the stuff connected to the three demon flags which is the extreme extreme shizz. That stuff is the stuff causing her issues with a minority obsessive and overzealous fans.

 

[Zenith_11]

Unlikely. IF...if...the extreme gets removed (which is/was/would be flagged by the demon flags) then the rest will not change. The evil path is staying...she has not once mentioned dropping it. Just the stuff connected to the three demon flags which is the extreme extreme shizz. That stuff is the stuff causing her issues with a minority obsessive and overzealous fans.

That's good to hear! I guess if this change happens my playthrough won't be affected then.

 

[Maviarab]

That's good to hear! I guess if this change happens my playthrough won't be affected then.

Yeah I mean it would be a shame, I have a save just for that...but if it goes it goes...*shrugs*...hardly the end of the world to me. So we'll just have 14 endings instead...woe is us lol.

 

[Jan23489]

It's not a normal save (with position information etc), basically the game takes the values of all relevant variables (good/evil, names, flags from decisions etc) of the currently running game and stores them in one of 8 containers in a file called Karlssons.gambit.s1 in the persistent directory of your (system-dependent) renpy folder.

Thanks! So does the Sancho-modded game also use this file or where else are transfer values stored for that modded game version?

And more interestingly, how to read values from those containers and modify them? I see some strings saying "gameSave" followed by a number so those should mark the end of each containers. Savededitor.com does not recognize the file structure, unfortunately.

 

[Stan5851]

Thanks! So does the Sancho-modded game also use this file or where else are transfer values stored for that modded game version?

And more interestingly, how to read values from those containers and modify them? I see some strings saying "gameSave" followed by a number so those should mark the end of each containers. Savededitor.com does not recognize the file structure, unfortunately.

And what's the point of creating problems for yourself if you can just resave any data container (Ep7->Ep8 pt1 test) and thus get a fully editable save..

 

[Jan23489]

And what's the point of creating problems for yourself if you can just resave any data container (Ep7->Ep8 pt1 test) and thus get a fully editable save..

Well, you are right. I had thought about this, too. The rationale for wanting to modify the actual "transferred values" is that these are likely to be used in Episode 8 whereas the Episode-7-saves contain some 680 - probably mostly irrelevant - values (I just checked that number).

It would be great to have a list of carried-over-values that are in use Episode 8. And this ought to be a subset of the values in that transferred data container.

 

[Sancho1969]

It would be great to have a list of carried-over-values that are in use Episode 8. And this ought to be a subset of the values in that transferred data container.

I can provide that... but you must understand that Ep8 "Test" doesn't use all of them...yet. Nothing is to say that any or all of the transferred vars won't be used at some point in the future "Final" of Ep8.