VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.2B Final] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[Stan5851]

Imho :
What about "neutral" Veronica who invented or perfected the shock chips which cause the sub characters so much pain and keep slaves from revolting? In one canon scene in season 1 she used deafened slaves to clean her office.

Veronica did not deaf her slaves.This was confirmed by Tess.The wars about Veronica’s personality raged hundreds of pages ago. I don’t want to repeat the same thing over and over again. If you’re interested in my opinion, look for my old posts about her. No offense.

 

[Stan5851]

Astrid likely has no option to be evil due to her illness, the cryo sleep and the search for a cure which is more important than sadistic fun.

Nope, that’s not the reason. She was perfectly healthy and studied at the same Karlsson Academy, where teachers successfully brainwashed other sisters and their future and current female servants and employees. However, unlike her sisters, Astrid did not buy into this propaganda about female superiority and other false narratives.

This girl had everything one could wish for, but she had the courage and determination to rebel against the evil of her father, for which she paid the price when Alexander infected her with a fatal disease. So no, she had a choice to become evil sadist, but she consciously rejected it.

 

[f96zonetrooper]

In E8.1 at the end of the script there is an easter egg for k1pro only.

label finalboaty:
...
    if k1pro:
        $ tesssubeyes = True
...

label eastereggfork:

    if tesssubeyes:
        jump subeastereggt
    elif True:
        jump endeight
       
...

Spoiler: Easter Egg

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[kinkyshin]

Spoiler

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[kinkyshin]

And since I love Harry Potter so much:

Spoiler

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[f96zonetrooper]

Veronica did not deaf her slaves.This was confirmed by Tess.The wars about Veronica’s personality raged hundreds of pages ago. I don’t want to repeat the same thing over and over again. If you’re interested in my opinion, look for my old posts about her. No offense.

No offense taken.

I try to argue based only on the ingame conversations. Tess' statements on discord do not affect the game's story as long as they are not implemented.

The scene is in E5 : gambitrevealone

Spoiler

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The line
v "And it is a bit inhumane to make these servants deaf, but I must protect information at all costs."
may prepare the player that V may be willing to sacrifice others for the "greater good" ...

I wonder what Yvette did when she "... was having a lovely time with Phoebe ..." ???

 

[Stan5851]

I try to argue based only on the ingame conversations. Tess' statements on discord do not affect the game's story as long as they are not implemented.

Are you kidding me or what? What Discord? You didn’t even bother to open my link and read what’s written there. If you had read it, you would have understood that Tess responded in this thread. And this response is not in the “implemented/not implemented” category. It was given to resolve our long-standing disputeabout whether Veronica deafened the slaves or not.

There were many theories, including the idea that the slave at her feet was behaving unnaturally for someone supposedly deprived of hearing. Later, when Tess came here, she clarified the situation. So this is a fact: Veronica did not deafened the slaves, but she deceived her mother by lying about it.

 

[kinkyshin]

stuff

Hey man, I'm not personally bothered by it and you're not doing anything wrong but just letting you know that the reason you're getting somewhat cold reception is because you're digging through the script and posting it like we haven't all done this already. We have. Many months ago. I mean, at this point (so many months after the latest release) pretty much the only people that still posting here are the diehard fans lol

Playing the k4-sub-route I found an event where Dominique whips Kane and confesses :

Spoiler

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-> "thousands" indicates that it is going on for years and that her behaviour is not related to any current events in the game ...

Yes, I understand this... Dominique does both evil things and good things, which is what she is conflicted about... There are other clues as well that she has been doing this for a very long time besides this (such as Veronica saying that Dominique is the best with the whip). But what I was saying is that there are some options to gently tip the scales in one direction or the other... such as pushing the injured worker into lava instead of saving him or Kane insisting on her saving Kwame. And these small differences may factor in whether or not Cole has the option to convince Dominique to embrace being a good person. Err, is there something about this or my original post that you quoted that you disagree with?

 

[f96zonetrooper]

Are you kidding me or what? What Discord? You didn’t even bother to open my link and read what’s written there. If you had read it, you would have understood that Tess responded in this thread. And this response is not in the “implemented/not implemented” category. It was given to resolve our long-standing disputeabout whether Veronica deafened the slaves or not.

There were many theories, including the idea that the slave at her feet was behaving unnaturally for someone supposedly deprived of hearing. Later, when Tess came here, she clarified the situation. So this is a fact: Veronica did not deafened the slaves, but she deceived her mother by lying about it.

No offense.
I had opened your link, skimmed the text in the images but found it not conclusive compared to what I see in the game/script.
Since it contained screenshots I mistook it for the type of discord discussion where people post discord screenshots. My bad.

I think the general problem is how to treat the (game/script) vs (game/script+Tess' comments). Tess may have the complete story but we don't have the complete game ... and maybe Tess changes the story before she implements it ...

In that discussion between Elena, Yvette and V, many statements are by Elena who also in other conversations points out the cruelty of others.

 

[f96zonetrooper]

Hey man, I'm not personally bothered by it and you're not doing anything wrong but just letting you know that the reason you're getting somewhat cold reception is because you're digging through the script and posting it like we haven't all done this already. We have. Many months ago. I mean, at this point (so many months after the latest release) pretty much the only people that still posting here are the diehard fans lol

No offense.
If everything that can be said about the game is already said, then the thread could be closed or suspended until next update, maybe except for the patreon news and preview images.
The thread is for everybody to discuss the game ... it has currently more than 18k posts (or 900+ pages) ... players come and go, especially with now ca a year between updates ....

I remember another game where discussions went wild and they split the discussions in two parts ... general game thread and an unmoderated discussion in off-topics for diehard fans ...

Yes, I understand this... Dominique does both evil things and good things, which is what she is conflicted about... There are other clues as well that she has been doing this for a very long time besides this (such as Veronica saying that Dominique is the best with the whip). But what I was saying is that there are some options to gently tip the scales in one direction or the other... such as pushing the injured worker into lava instead of saving him or Kane insisting on her saving Kwame. And these small differences may factor in whether or not Cole has the option to convince Dominique to embrace being a good person. Err, is there something about this or my original post that you quoted that you disagree with?

I try to argue based on how variables are used in the current script, not how they are named and might be used in future updates. If the variable has an impact on Dominique in future updates, I will respect that in the future when I have the update.
I posted the two dialogs who change based on player choice how Dominique treats the injured worker in E7. That's all I found in current scripts. Maybe we get more player options to influence her in future updates.

Thoughts/speculations :
Cole was Alexander Karlsson's best friend, so they were probably about the same age ... I guess Dominique sees in Cole the strong and morally good "father" she never had? Dominique probably knows Cole her whole life, allthough he was held captive all that time.
Dominique to Cole :
d "I know. I credit you for being a very impressive man. You're definitely better than my father ever was...it's not even close. But I guess I never met the best version of him."
cole "No, you didn't. He was a great man...once upon a time."
d "I'm not the most wholesome person myself, but I respect a strong man. Men like you barely exist anymore...I wish...I could find even one strong, young man."
d "But sad to say...men like you are an endangered species in today's world..."
Cole cannot be a love interest for Dominique since Cole is Callista's partner, so his options to affect Dominique are limited.

I would expect Kane to have a bonus with Dominique due to being Cole's son, but I don't remember such a reaction by her in the game.
If Kane is K9, Elena says :
ec "[pname] has reached K9 already in the program. And it's not just because he's your son. He's been impressive."
ec "I think he has more potential than both Alexander and Cole. I don't say that lightly."
If Dominique would consider (dom) Kane a worthy son of Cole and as a potential lover, she probably would have said so ...

In the script Cole is first mentioned in E6, so maybe he could not affect the story in earlier episodes due to being one of the many secrets Tess reveals in small pieces ...

Since we have the option to play good and evil Kane and probably will also have the option to save or destroy the Karlsson Group and so the power base of the Karlsson sisters, I guess that Dominique's fate in the end will depend on the game ending, so there will likely be both good and an evil Dominique endings.

 

[kinkyshin]

No offense.

None taken.

I try to argue based on how variables are used in the current script, not how they are named and might be used in future updates. If the variable has an impact on Dominique in future updates, I will respect that in the future when I have the update.
I posted the two dialogs who change based on player choice how Dominique treats the injured worker in E7. That's all I found in current scripts. Maybe we get more player options to influence her in future updates.

Okay, but... if the variables are 'dominiquegood' and 'dominiqueevil', surely we can make some pretty safe assumptions on what they represent based on their names?

Dominique to Cole :

Spoiler

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I would expect Kane to have a bonus with Dominique due to being Cole's son, but I don't remember such a reaction by her in the game.

Well, I don't really know what you mean by "bonus with Dominique due to being Cole's son" but in the same scene that you referenced, she also asks Kane what he knows about his father and then says she heard that he was an impressive man and that Kane would've been proud to see him in action. Doesn't that count?

Also, slightly unrelated but I've always thought it's weird though that none of the Karlssons (except Olivia) will tell Kane what his father's name is WHILE simultaneously being surprised that Callista never told him. Feels like these two things should contradict one another Ah, never mind. Just realized that they're not surprised that Callista didn't tell him his father's name. They're surprised that she didn't tell him about his father while just excluding his name. But now that I think about it further, I think I know why she didn't tell him.

 

[harsha_26]

Imho :
What about "neutral" Veronica who invented or perfected the shock chips which cause the sub characters so much pain and keep slaves from revolting? In one canon scene in season 1 she used deafened slaves to clean her office.

Elena is reported as sadistic and evil in the past. If the player chooses a "good" Olivia who saves Seth, Elena will abstain from evil actions for Olivia but that does not mean that she repents her past crimes. If necessary she would likely kill an unlimited number of people to help Olivia win the Gambit. (motherly love)
Edit : If sub Kane rejects Olivia's and Elena's offer for cooperation at the end of E8.1 (elenasubsponsor), there is an (optional) punishment event at start of E8.2 with Elena and Sam punishing Kane for not pledging loyalty to Olivia (pegging, spanking).

A lot of shy and less dominant characters are used in the sub path to "learn" domination which can be funny.
The society is hierarchical, so the girls get trained to lick (or suck) the ones above and whip the ones below or make them lick them.

Yvette and Astrid are the only "Karlsson" main characters who seem not evil. Astrid likely has no option to be evil due to her illness, the cryo sleep and the search for a cure which is more important than sadistic fun.

I think Evil Elena is canon and flows better in the story, because, her redemption path doesn't looked that convincing. It felt inconsistent and not have enough build up to have a impact in players (especially the ones who already played her evil paths in sub routes) those who want to give her a chance to redeem, especially the dom players.

In other games, I may have said that "Well, it isn't happened in my canon path, so who cares", but in this game, whether you play those routes or not, characters will do some things no matter what (example: Dominique), the only difference is whether you are included in that path or not.

So, yeah, whether you want to do for personal revenge or just want to deliver some kind of "eye for an eye" justice to slaves, I think, atleast for me, evil dom is my canon. Sorry guys, you may have your own reasons to see this game in different eyes, but not me. And I admire Tess for making this game where my hidden emotions coming out so well that weren't part of me normally lol.

The only disappointment is, this "eye for an eye" justice thing wont see it's true potential because of demon path ban. But, that is only for me. I can perfectly understand if other evil dom players are not into extremes.

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

I think Evil Elena is canon and flows better in the story, because, her redemption path doesn't looked that convincing. It felt inconsistent and not have enough build up to have a impact in players (especially the ones who already played her evil paths in sub routes) those who want to give her a chance to redeem, especially the dom players.

As much as I hate it, Olivia being good due to MOY's teachings and turning Elena makes more sense for the story then Olivia just suddenly turning to the dark side cuz she's in power

 

[harsha_26]

As much as I hate it, Olivia being good due to MOY's teachings and turning Elena makes more sense for the story then Olivia just suddenly turning to the dark side cuz she's in power

Yes, Good Olivia suddenly turning evil doesn't makes much sense, same as Evil Elena turning suddenly good doesn't make much sense. Atleast to me.

 

[Meiri]

Yes, Good Olivia suddenly turning evil doesn't makes much sense, same as Evil Elena turning suddenly good doesn't make much sense. Atleast to me.

Well, I think Olivia makes sense if you see it as her feeling she's been lied to all her life after the big reveal. I see her as acting that way to get revenge on Callista in her head, at least it's the first person I see this version of Olivia blaming.

Elena is harder to justify because, bad habits don't die fast. It would make more sense for her to initially act as a corrupting influence to try to undo Callista's education, which would help in corrupting Evil Olivia, while a good Olivia would slowly help Elena see the error of her ways.

In my opinion, at least, everything with Elena in the game seems to happen way too fast.

 

[harsha_26]

In E8.1 at the end of the script there is an easter egg for k1pro only.

label finalboaty:
...
    if k1pro:
        $ tesssubeyes = True
...

label eastereggfork:

    if tesssubeyes:
        jump subeastereggt
    elif True:
        jump endeight
      
...

Spoiler: Easter Egg

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I hope Tess breaks immersion like this above for dom players too, when we get into Z5 in evil mode.

 

[Ricthequick]

I hope Tess breaks immersion like this above for dom players too, when we get into Z5 in evil mode.

How would she do it?

The breaking of the 4th wall in that example was to jusity an upcoming end-game status, and she was telling us to "keep a separated save for it" (because there's no coming back, the game ends).

How would you implement it in the other direction without being at the end of the game?
It's been explained multiple times how even with the most perfect accumulation of dominant points, Kane will never really have the same position the Karlsson have "right now", and the peak of his "power" would be at the end of the game.

Not trying to cause a ruckus, but again what would a breaking of the 4th wall once the game is over mean? Who should it involve? Olivia? All the Karlsson ladies? Every single female on the planet/island/spaceship/whatever?

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

Yes, Good Olivia suddenly turning evil doesn't makes much sense, same as Evil Elena turning suddenly good doesn't make much sense. Atleast to me.

Elena being inspired by her daughter makes some sense if you think about the fact that Elena's whole life has been about finding and connecting with her daughter, but it does take a while as shown by the fact that choice nets you the least amount of positive points.

 

[kinkyshin]

I think Evil Elena is canon

Absolutely shocked to hear this from you. Shocked.

Jokes aside, I definitely think it's too soon to say if Elena's redemption arc makes sense or not yet...

As much as I hate it, Olivia being good due to MOY's teachings and turning Elena makes more sense for the story then Olivia just suddenly turning to the dark side cuz she's in power

If we assume that she spent a year under Alexander, then perhaps she's been good or evil for a while now? Who knows what sort of nonsense he may have filled her head with during that time.

Elena being inspired by her daughter makes some sense if you think about the fact that Elena's whole life has been about finding and connecting with her daughter, but it does take a while as shown by the fact that choice nets you the least amount of positive points.

Has she? I thought Elena was under the impression that Olivia was dead - not missing.

Also, Elena's devotion to her daughter gives off crazy vibes IMO

Spoiler

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[MilesEdgeworth]

If we assume that she spent a year under Alexander, then perhaps she's been good or evil for a while now? Who knows what sort of nonsense he may have filled her head with during that time.


Has she? I thought Elena was under the impression that Olivia was dead - not missing.

Also, Elena's devotion to her daughter gives off crazy vibes IMO

Spoiler

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Even if one subscribes to the agent Olivia theory, it would make no sense for Alexander to send her away to get raised by Callista just to do away with all her teachings. If that was the case he wouldve kept her on the island.

You're right, Elena is absolutely unhinged. She is fixated on Olivia's happiness which is why it makes sense that she's malleable to whatever morality that Olivia wants her to be.