VN Ren'Py Karlsson's Gambit [v0.8.31 TestB] [Grym Gudinna Games]

[hoochimama]

So, In that path after you get demoted to K5, you found any coherent conversations? Kane still got the job to monitor pod girls as a K5?

Yeah, still in charge of the girl wpod, still monitoring the gameshow. Though I can't recall if you were already in charge of the wpod before the demotion. On the one hand you have Olivia encouraging you to be as successful as possible with the gameshow to climb the ranks (implying you need to be ruthless), like it's some all or nothing last chance. On the other you have the cutscenes happening elsewhere from the pov of the resistance/revolution characters (which I'd join if offered) saying they're hesitant about making contact with you and that they'll be watching what you do to decide (implying you need to be good/noble). So it remains an interesting conflict.

It's a bit anti-climatic upon reaching the gameshow stage how you can just casually have sex with the likes of Katsumi, Juliette and Dominique like you're all friends now -when they previously humiliated , raped and tortured you, threatened your brother etc. You can still roleplay away the act of becoming their fuckbuddy as just doing whatever's necessary to climb the hierarchy (even if the inner monolog doesn't necessarily reflect it), but it does take some oomph out of the idea of eventually getting to rape/hate/grudge fuck them as payback.

If/when the revolution comes, toss them to the mob.

 

[harsha_26]

Yeah, still in charge of the girl wpod, still monitoring the gameshow. Though I can't recall if you were already in charge of the wpod before the demotion. On the one hand you have Olivia encouraging you to be as successful as possible with the gameshow to climb the ranks (implying you need to be ruthless), like it's some all or nothing last chance. On the other you have the cutscenes happening elsewhere from the pov of the resistance/revolution characters (which I'd join if offered) saying they're hesitant about making contact with you and that they'll be watching what you do to decide (implying you need to be good/noble).

It's a bit anti-climatic upon reaching the gameshow stage how you can just casually have sex with the likes of Katsumi, Juliette and Dominique like you're all friends now -when they previously humiliated , raped and tortured you, threatened your brother etc. It muddles the waters of revenge.

Yeah, this have been a very old and probably never be solved issue in game. The best way is to give warnings in the game itself that Regular Dom Path and sub paths are very different rather than showing those differences in a walk-through instead, so that dom fans may restart the game and take other choices which seem coherent to their fetishes instead of hoping for a sub path to become a true dom path.

 

[daffyrolls94]

It's a bit anti-climatic upon reaching the gameshow stage how you can just casually have sex with the likes of Katsumi, Juliette and Dominique like you're all friends now -when they previously humiliated , raped and tortured you, threatened your brother etc. It somewhat muddles the waters of revenge.

I thought the revenge path was a meme and Tess sort of went with it until she got mad at dom players and said it will never happen. Even though nothing in this game indicates it was ever planned. It needs a different story altogether that lets the protag want and plan a revolt, and for a revolt to be possible in the first place. None of that exists in this game.

This is what actually exists: 1> "good" choices/branches are light bdsm 2> anything "evil" leads to a more hardcore scene than the good or less evil choices 3> "neutral" is a combination of both, and probably counts as "good" for the major story beats. Beyond that it's all a matter of subjective opinions about what is good or bad. You're all friends after they torture you because that's how the bdsm fantasy plays out. You're not supposed to want revenge, you're supposed to want more power so you can see the dom scenes. And if you deliberately slow down your own progress in the dom route that's a fantasy as well, i.e working hard for the prize.

 

[harsha_26]

I thought the revenge path was a meme and Tess sort of went with it until she got mad at dom players and said it will never happen. Even though nothing in this game indicates it was ever planned. It needs a different story altogether that lets the protag want and plan a revolt, and for a revolt to be possible in the first place. None of that exists in this game.

This is what actually exists: 1> "good" choices/branches are light bdsm 2> anything "evil" leads to a more hardcore scene than the good or less evil choices 3> "neutral" is a combination of both, and probably counts as "good" for the major story beats. Beyond that it's all a matter of subjective opinions about what is good or bad. You're all friends after they torture you because that's how the bdsm fantasy plays out. You're not supposed to want revenge, you're supposed to want more power so you can see the dom scenes. And if you deliberately slow down your own progress in the dom route that's a fantasy as well, i.e working hard for the prize.

Bdsm fantasy? They are not doing bdsm things just because of their fetishes like real life couples do their bdsm things in their bedroom and acts as normal outside of bedroom. It's the whole system of karlsson's company. They should atleast talk about them discuss about those memories with kane after becoming sub to dom. They behaving oblivious to the whole thing just means tess never cared about coherency about transformation paths like sub to dom or dom to sub. This is the main problem that will be never solved. Either you play full sub paths or full dom (aka vanilla) paths. No middle zones or experiments.

 

[daffyrolls94]

Bdsm fantasy? They are not doing bdsm things just because of their fetishes like real life couples do their bdsm things in their bedroom and acts as normal outside of bedroom. It's the whole system of karlsson's company.

You misunderstood, I'm saying that the game itself is the fantasy. Obviously the characters in the game are "doing it for real" within the game's fictional world but what these characters - who, lest we forget, do not exist - can or cannot do is determined by what kind of fantasy the game is portraying. And clearly a revenge path is not included in it, even though the conversation here obviously misled some people into believing it would be. I don't know who is to blame for that, or if anyone is to blame at all, but the point is it ain't happenin.

 

[honeryx]

You misunderstood, I'm saying that the game itself is the fantasy. Obviously the characters in the game are "doing it for real" within the game's fictional world but what these characters - who, lest we forget, do not exist - can or cannot do is determined by what kind of fantasy the game is portraying. And clearly a revenge path is not included in it, even though the conversation here obviously misled some people into believing it would be. I don't know who is to blame for that, or if anyone is to blame at all, but the point is it ain't happenin.

There is a shocking inability for people to differentiate fiction from reality on these forums. I honestly am bewildered so many people have this issue. When I was younger these types of people were roundly mocked and laughed at, it wasn't something to be accepted and respected. I don't even know how basic discussions are possible in such an environment.

 

[daffyrolls94]

There is a shocking inability for people to differentiate fiction from reality on these forums. I honestly am bewildered so many people have this issue. When I was younger these types of people were roundly mocked and laughed at, it wasn't something to be accepted and respected. I don't even know how basic discussions are possible in such an environment.

That's becoming a general thing as people are increasingly alienated in real life but plugged in to the internet & social media.

 

[harsha_26]

You misunderstood, I'm saying that the game itself is the fantasy. Obviously the characters in the game are "doing it for real" within the game's fictional world but what these characters - who, lest we forget, do not exist - can or cannot do is determined by what kind of fantasy the game is portraying. And clearly a revenge path is not included in it, even though the conversation here obviously misled some people into believing it would be. I don't know who is to blame for that, or if anyone is to blame at all, but the point is it ain't happenin.

They hoping for a revenge path because the story demands it and it is logical to expect it, but yes it doesn't exist (at least a more direct form of revenge).. as confirmed indirectly and directly by tess many times..

 

[honeryx]

I know canon ending will have Astrid and Veronica survive, but with the type of game this is, I would want at least one route where each or both die, and that's generally the case for everyone involved in this thing. Unfortunately Twin Demons path is gone, otherwise that would have had great potential for interesting things like that. Evil Olivia and Evil Kane wanting to sweep the entire power structure away, using the revolution as a tool to do it only to ultimately betray them too and create an even worse dystopia with them at the top, the villains win worst ending that you very rarely see.

 

[Dark Quean Olivia]

I wish I never had...

Pls no! I don't want you thread banned Mavi. I very much appreciate your trolling

Is it possible to get into evil dom path with starting as K4 and not involving alesandra secret sub path?

So, In that path after you get demoted to K5, you found any coherent conversations? Kane still got the job to monitor pod girls as a K5?

Yes...no.

Yes you do evil dom starting as K4. Can be evil all day long on the SubPath. Secondly, no, promoting from SubPath auto puts you on SS path, but you can get out of it. She will demote you to K5.

This in itself is not really a problem as barring some very simple changes, the dom path is the dom path (currently) regardless of rank. K9 just gets extra perks.

Finally, there is no real 'evil dom path' anymore....just take evil decisions. The scene with Jules and Dom will not change in 8.2 and if you wish to get on Evil Dominique's path, you can also do this in 8.2 by joining forces with her when she summons you (choose to go and see her).

 

[MilesEdgeworth]

They hoping for a revenge path because the story demands it and it is logical to expect it, but yes it doesn't exist (at least a more direct form of revenge).. as confirmed indirectly and directly by tess many times..

Story may demand it, but if Kane has no reason to get revenge , why would he do so? Remember, callista has told Kane jackshit of the before times. As far as Kane knows, his moms dead and he's just participating in some random program to keep out of jail. Obviously Olivia being there tells him there's more to it, but he still would have no real reason to attack the Karlssons ( as a dom anyway).

 

[Hazardgaming]

Story may demand it, but if Kane has no reason to get revenge , why would he do so? Remember, callista has told Kane jackshit of the before times. As far as Kane knows, his moms dead and he's just participating in some random program to keep out of jail. Obviously Olivia being there tells him there's more to it, but he still would have no real reason to attack the Karlssons ( as a dom anyway).

On the dom path, Kane meets the guy who attacked Seth.. Rob I think it was. He describes the people who hired him, which is Alessandra and Pat. Kane both knows that he was framed and who (the KG board) framed him.

 

[harsha_26]

On the dom path, Kane meets the guy who attacked Seth.. Rob I think it was. He describes the people who hired him, which is Alessandra and Pat. Kane both knows that he was framed and who (the KG board) framed him.

Yeah that itself could be the reason for his revenge because karlssons are directly involved in Kane trap. And that's where he got his demon path opened (if you kill that rob). I don't know what more one want to take revenge on karlssons. Yes, there may be something beyond reason for karlsson's to do that thing (gambit plan, kane bomb etc), But the Kane in k9 knows nothing about it and only knows about rob, his attack on seth and his conversation before death. That's what he should primarily focus on. The Classic Poetic Revenge.

But, anyway, discussing or arguing about this does nothing substantial. Demon path is forever closed and also revenge too by the Femdom Queen Tess.

 

[harsha_26]

Yes...no.

Yes you do evil dom starting as K4. Can be evil all day long on the SubPath. Secondly, no, promoting from SubPath auto puts you on SS path, but you can get out of it. She will demote you to K5.

This in itself is not really a problem as barring some very simple changes, the dom path is the dom path (currently) regardless of rank. K9 just gets extra perks.

Finally, there is no real 'evil dom path' anymore....just take evil decisions. The scene with Jules and Dom will not change in 8.2 and if you wish to get on Evil Dominique's path, you can also do this in 8.2 by joining forces with her when she summons you (choose to go and see her).

God, this game is too complicated unless you take easy and expected routes. Not because players are lazy, but because Tess don't care about routes which are not so popular or routes which are not so dear to her. Yeah, not only demon but she clearly doomed overall evil dom path too. Stan5851 many times said this, but I blindly believed in tess that she does something to keep Evil Dom as unique and keep it active compare to good dom path. This game have too much baggage to bear for dom players.

 

[harsha_26]

I agree with you to that extent. So far, there's absolutely no indication that a "revenge campaign" is possible.

However, we know that tensions are running high behind the scenes, and peace is only being maintained because of the current event. We also know that starting with version 0.9, everything will fall apart, and the factions will begin to take shape. It's already been announced that Kane will meet his father. I also assume that Kane will meet his mother and aunt.

It all depends on how Tess shapes the story from version 0.9 onward. Will it be possible to influence the course of these conversations? Will there be a way to influence the "cooperation" between the factions? And so on.

I mean yeah, civil war is destined, so based on factions, all can die (except ofcourse immortal goddesses veronica, astrid and delilah). But, whatever faction you choose, you will be forced to work with atleast one karlsson sister and you have to maintain that relation to the end of the game. There is no faction possible which can guarantee the Conquering over all the Karlssons.

But, yeah, we can assume olivia faction as non-karlsson if Kane can convince olivia that she does not belong to kalrssons but belong with her adopted family. That might be something interesting to see.

 

[_Sen _]

I fail to see why evil dom Kane has any reason to rebel. Sure, he was wrongfully imprisoned by the Karlssons but that ordeal turned out to be a blessing in disguise. He got access to women, cars and mansions. He grew up poor but now through the Karlssons, he has managed to transform his life. Moreover, the Karlsson women have been nothing but nice to dom Kane. Good dom Kane might still want to rebel to change the Karlsson system why would evil Kane try to change a system that has only been beneficial to him?

Sub Kane has a much stronger reason to rebel given he has faced the perils of the system firsthand

 

[honeryx]

I fail to see why evil dom Kane has any reason to rebel. Sure, he was wrongfully imprisoned by the Karlssons but that ordeal turned out to be a blessing in disguise. He got access to women, cars and mansions. He grew up poor but now through the Karlssons, he has managed to transform his life. Moreover, the Karlsson women have been nothing but nice to dom Kane. Good dom Kane might still want to rebel to change the Karlsson system why would evil Kane try to change a system that has only been beneficial to him?

Sub Kane has a much stronger reason to rebel given he has faced the perils of the system firsthand

That's a wild thing to say. You act like there has never been a powerplay in world history.

 

[daffyrolls94]

That's a wild thing to say. You act like there has never been a powerplay in world history.

Not really. If you wanna roleplay a stupid evil character more power to you, but let's not pretend it's realistic. Power is a means not an end, by definition.

 

[harsha_26]

I fail to see why evil dom Kane has any reason to rebel. Sure, he was wrongfully imprisoned by the Karlssons but that ordeal turned out to be a blessing in disguise. He got access to women, cars and mansions. He grew up poor but now through the Karlssons, he has managed to transform his life. Moreover, the Karlsson women have been nothing but nice to dom Kane. Good dom Kane might still want to rebel to change the Karlsson system why would evil Kane try to change a system that has only been beneficial to him?

Sub Kane has a much stronger reason to rebel given he has faced the perils of the system firsthand

You are again not getting the point, Evil Dom Kane does not need to change the system. His Aim is to rule the same system created by the karlssons. But not with the karlssons as equal or under the karlssons as a employee. Why? Because he is evil and he is dominant. Plain and Simple.

Anyone with common sense can expect that a evil dominant's main purpose is nothing but dominant to something in a evil way, and according to this game, that something is none other than karlssons. And why revenge? Because Kane gets wrongfully trapped and beaten in prison. If he is enjoying everything given by karlssons, why would he kill the rob (the one who attacked on seth). Why the game has opened a new path called Demon at the very moment? Why not he just think like "Why I have to kill this man? Due to him and those invisible "karlssons", I got luxury and sex." But no, He killed that man and also sensed that someone higher authorities trapped him. But he is silent because he is looking for the right time and right rank.

He is not a good or netural person to work with them or to give them redemption and change them into good submissive women. That stuff is for Good Dominant path. In evil dom, he is there to takeover and become (may be) alexander or something even worse.

Even if I think this all nothing matters and only agree with you.. Then, remember that you can even play sub to dom path. Yes, it is more hard to get higher rank in this way. But, according to your reason of why sub is right for revenge, this sub to dom path is also viable for revenge. So, that's give more reason to him to become evil dom in future.

But.. As I said this again and again, no matter what we argue or discuss.. Entities like Patreon, Collectiveshout and mainly, Tess herself doomed this revenge path and it is not longer viable.

 

[_Sen _]

You are again not getting the point, Evil Dom Kane does not need to change the system. His Aim is to rule the same system created by the karlssons. But not with the karlssons as equal or under the karlssons as a employee. Why? Because he is evil and he is dominant. Plain and Simple.

Anyone with common sense can expect that a evil dominant's main purpose is nothing but dominant to something in a evil way, and according to this game, that something is none other than karlssons. And why revenge? Because Kane gets wrongfully trapped and beaten in prison. If he is enjoying everything given by karlssons, why would he kill the rob (the one who attacked on seth). Why the game has opened a new path called Demon at the very moment? Why not he just think like "Why I have to kill this man? Due to him and those invisible "karlssons", I got luxury and sex." But no, He killed that man and also sensed that someone higher authorities trapped him. But he is silent because he is looking for the right time and right rank.

He is not a good or netural person to work with them or to give them redemption and change them into good submissive women. That stuff is for Good Dominant path. In evil dom, he is there to takeover and become (may be) alexander or something even worse.

Even if I think this all nothing matters and only agree with you.. Then, remember that you can even play sub to dom path. Yes, it is more hard to get higher rank in this way. But, according to your reason of why sub is right for revenge, this sub to dom path is also viable for revenge. So, that's give more reason to him to become evil dom in future.

But.. As I said this again and again, no matter what we argue or discuss.. Entities like Patreon, Collectiveshout and mainly, Tess herself doomed this revenge path and it is not longer viable.

Ok, so he will upend a system that he has known for like 10 days while subduing almost everyone in the system. Because he's a dominant guy that wants to be evil? How will he even manage to do that? At least in the revolt path, he has support from the DeKocks, Astrid, Yvette and Kiyomi. The very support he will likely lose if he too turned out to be evil and psychotic like Alexander

The scenario you mentioned as the Good dom path - you ally with the chosen Karlssons and then punish the others or try to redeem them, is still logical.

The demon path for evil Kane was that he will join forces with the likes of Juliette, Phoebe, Celeste etc and partake in their more severe activities.Which was cut for one reason or the other. Not for a solo Kane to turn every Karlsson girl and their lackeys into whipping posts or human furniture.

The sub to dom route is a valid point but that route has had irregularities from the start. I'd rather say that the cancelled burn everything ending in Kiyomi's path is simpler to write into the story. After all, it's far easier to burn an empire down than govern it