I always found Noxian Nights better while KoD had a more interesting premise. I find that both the four heroines, erotic scenes and the plot in NN was handled much better along. Just a shame that the Tentacle and Minotaur endings were a bit rushed.
The problem is that Sierra leaving was too long ago for that to hold any real weight, and the time between updates wasn't great before that.
I posted this kind of thing a long while back, but pulling the most recent release dates posted a page back so I don't have to look them up myself again.
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We don't know exactly when Sierra left or when the other team members were brought on, but the estimates were around / between .5 to .6 IIRC. But regardless, they're long past the "new team coming up to speed and working well together" time period, which should be less than 6 moths or 2 updates for this. You can even see that the progress when Sierra left was still fairly consistent around 3-4 months between updates, then it's slowed massively since then.
- Aug 3, 2017
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For your info, Sierra (original member) left sometime in 2018. I forget when Monaco Dingo left without finding my old notes, but MD was around even as far back in 2017. Though there was work on KoD in 2016, the first major release was in 2017.
Current Team Members of Hreinn Games:
Thus, I absolutely agree with souldead341's comment that "[Hreinn Games is] long past the 'new team coming up to speed and working well together' time period" as I noted before (on October 7th, 2020) as well:
Current Team Members of Hreinn Games:
| [Member] | [Role] | [Member Since] |
| Nomo | Artist & Storyboarder | Original Member |
| Monsinne | Writer | Since 2018 (but likely sooner). |
| Ndsferrari | Programmer | Since November 2017 at least. |
Thus, I absolutely agree with souldead341's comment that "[Hreinn Games is] long past the 'new team coming up to speed and working well together' time period" as I noted before (on October 7th, 2020) as well:
From what i remember, the slowest updates either included a lot of new character sprites or they had wide branching routes and so they were probably very time consuming to code. Based on the pictures in their previous post, Nomo seem to be well on his way with the new sprites, so there is some hope in that.
But if i'm correct, then the bad news is that the new armor assets and mini-scenes will have to be integrated quite far back into the story. There have been groping scenes since 0.7 at least. Last time this happened (0.9), the release took more than 5 months.
While i'm at that point.. the last update had some insane branching. Dom-Shaman route is either impossible without codes or almost impossible for example. And now we have 3 captains, both dom and sub options and shaman on/off, plus solo. They wrote specialized dialogue for 3*2*2+2=14 different routes. That is really impressive. Hreinn is more dedicated to choices than a lot of big companies.
However even tho i have no experience in it, i don't think that checking that many routes and triggers can be a as quick as a straight forward story line would. This also means that the content is spread out and players who only go for one play through will not get too much content per update.
So unless they really found a way to speed things up, my bet is the end of may as earliest or, more likely, june.
But if i'm correct, then the bad news is that the new armor assets and mini-scenes will have to be integrated quite far back into the story. There have been groping scenes since 0.7 at least. Last time this happened (0.9), the release took more than 5 months.
While i'm at that point.. the last update had some insane branching. Dom-Shaman route is either impossible without codes or almost impossible for example. And now we have 3 captains, both dom and sub options and shaman on/off, plus solo. They wrote specialized dialogue for 3*2*2+2=14 different routes. That is really impressive. Hreinn is more dedicated to choices than a lot of big companies.
However even tho i have no experience in it, i don't think that checking that many routes and triggers can be a as quick as a straight forward story line would. This also means that the content is spread out and players who only go for one play through will not get too much content per update.
So unless they really found a way to speed things up, my bet is the end of may as earliest or, more likely, june.
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Ok, not trying to restart a flame war or anything here, but...
I know that the amount of branching requires a lot of writing, with the more branches mean more time on a branching stage of a story. That's why almost all branching stories have a diamond shape (or a series of connected diamond shapes), so you always start at one point, branch out, then the story threads join back in into one location / event. It basically reduces the number of variant scenes at the end to a manageable amount (not counting early / bad endings). A good example of this is the Way of the Samurai 4
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map, since most of the parallel events in that are actually just fighting different sides of the same event with different dialogues leading in and out of the event, with only a few major branches that don't have many events in common. (Way of the Samurai 4 is basically entirely a series of diamonds linked together).Part of the issues that myself and many others have had is that Hreinn have repeatedly promised faster / more content updates, which even with the amount of possible branches you have (assuming people play each branch) doesn't seem like enough content in an update for the promises they've made, while either not being released significantly faster or, now especially, longer between updates.
Again, not trying to start a flame war or anything, just pointing out these (again) since they are very valid issues with what they've done. I know that it's a massively difficult and time consuming thing to do a game development project like this, and have never done a project like this myself so can only comment on what it looks like from the outside looking in at it (and as a former supporter from the NN development times).
Being an artist myself I can say that yes it takes time to make such a game. But you can notice when something oozes laziness too or when you make a promise to your fanbase and do not keep it. Like putting the repeatable tent scenes in, changing the ugly art to what was before, making just one pose for Vehlis and she stays like that for months, lack of backgrounds, lack of communication, and a lot of bugs after a half year of development? shady excuses and disappointment. I am even afraid to look at the updates with one or two new pictures because I know it will be the game's whole new content. A very good and positive example is Our red string by Eva Kiss. She always communicates with her fanbase, and the updates are prompt and frequent. And her fanbase and cashflow are much better than Hreinn games are. And the engine is pretty much the same, yet she manages to produce it 10 times faster. Because she keeps her word and respects her fanbase the concept which Hreinn games seems not to understand.
- Feb 26, 2018
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I agree with you that Hreinn Games don't seem very productive. I would like faster updates, too. But I don't think you can compare Our Red String to Kingdom of Deception. Not to say I didn't enjoy ORS or that it's bad, but as far as I know the art is traced, which means art creation goes a lot faster. And the Virtual Novel consists of choices, which is generally what Virtual Novels are. Whereas KoD also has a Battle System, Shops, a Raid System, Stat Overview, Panels, Naming Saves, ...
To adress the recurring topic of Noxian Nights, RPGMaker has all or most of these features automatically. In RenPy you need to make them yourself and you have to fill actual playtime with text instead of running around.
So both comparisons lack a bit in content, if you ask me.
Without claiming to know how they work, the project does seem a bit planless. I think they know how the story ends and some milestones along the road, but sometimes it seems they didn't plan things out. Like dropping the raidsystem after a few updates again. Maybe a clearer roadmap would help.
Also in regards to those promises you mentioned, I think a lot of people here in this forum misunderstood some things there.
But they definitely need to step up their communication.
- Aug 4, 2020
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Relax. There are other games to play, while you wait for updates.
Plus the game has multiple ways to be played. And lets not forget that most of the sex scenes in the game are top tier fap material.
Last month they made a patreon post about how they will be adding different outfits for the MC. No doubt that will take some time.
The art of the game is amazing. One of the best imo (that is not one of those 3D models and stuff)
The bright side is, that the devs have no made "health issues" exuces.
I will give you that, they have pretty poor communication with the fans. They sometimes make 1 post per month lol
But it is what it is.
Plus the game has multiple ways to be played. And lets not forget that most of the sex scenes in the game are top tier fap material.
Last month they made a patreon post about how they will be adding different outfits for the MC. No doubt that will take some time.
The art of the game is amazing. One of the best imo (that is not one of those 3D models and stuff)
The bright side is, that the devs have no made "health issues" exuces.
I will give you that, they have pretty poor communication with the fans. They sometimes make 1 post per month lol
But it is what it is.
Yeah, the fact that they didn't have a full plan for the game from the beginning is extremely obvious. There seems to have never been a roadmap for the game story, which definitely doesn't help since that causes the game and story to drift and stagnate rather than continue forward.
I'll admit I haven't played the last 3 (I think) KoD updates properly, just used the JDMod to look at the scenes so I don't know exactly what game contents (vs visual novel contents) there have really been in the latest updates. But raids were programmed in, and used in 1-2 updates and been abandoned since then. No idea if the battle system has been used in recent updates, but I don't recall there being many battles included since the tournament (again, it's been a while since I played the updates and honestly didn't pay much attention to a lot of the last updates I played properly).
On the art front, most of the art in the both Hreinn games is make a base image of the body (sometimes used for multiple characters, especially in NN) and then use a separate layer / copy paste the base image and add the modifications in for each different art piece. I've not played or looked (that I recall) into Our Red String, so no idea how many different art assets they create per update, but to me (not being an artist) tracing several images and creating one base image which then has various modifications (many minor, like just a different expression) to it seem like a pretty similar processes to me.
As for rpgmaker having a lot of features built in that you need to code into renpy, that's true to an extent. But there's also a large number of code examples and premade code examples for both renpy and rpgmaker that you can add into or base your game on. This is again, where having a good roadmap or plan from the beginning helps with that, since you can code in an focus on what's actually going to be used in the entire game rather than something only used for a short time that may not warrant the time to make a more complex system (in the case of KoD the raid system is a good example of this).
I don't think anyone really misunderstands their promises, since nearly every news post and game update that I recall has had some variant on "After this update we're focusing on a faster turn around" or sometimes a "Now that we have X implemented updates will have more content / be released faster". Now, I'll freely admit that I may just be having a confirmation bias and only remebering the posts (that have been public / leaked)
They really do say that a lot. I wish they didn't, because there are still obvious things that will have to be done in the future as we progress. For example some generic human guys because we only have the armored picture now or some new clothes or a proper armor somewhere down the line.
Every time they said one of the phrases you quoted they just finished doing something necessary that took a lot of time and then started doing the next time consuming thing right away. A cleaner and less misleading communication would be something along the lines of "yes, this took a lot of time, but had to be done". Simple, truthful, no wishes or promises.
I honestly wonder how long a "simple" update would take them. Others have shown that Nomo's drawing speed has been consistent and the number of words written into each update has been going up, so in theory at least they could still make a new patch in ~3 months if no other complications came up.
I think it would be a good PR and business decision for them to just make a simple, streamlined update as fast as possible. Something like 3 months, 3-4 scene 2-3 reused sketch scene, a bit of story. No new assets, no new locations, no new characters, just work with what they have. Quick and to the point.
- Jun 22, 2017
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rather have reused images with steady production than a haphazardous production with varied art.
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- Apr 17, 2017
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Can anyone figure out if this save is corrupted or what? I followed the walkthrough as well as i could but can't get the "Rommel" part and seems like i'm locked and can't go forwards with anything, also for some reason i only ever got one of the 3 Ba Ashi scenes
- Aug 13, 2018
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How does the Corruption in game?. How can you Corrupt Sabia?. It is such a cool game I just like the idea of a Character going to the Dark Side.Think of it. What if Luke took up His Father's Offer?. That would have been a interesting twist. Do you have Sabia follow Tekrok in order for her to become corrupt?
- May 25, 2018
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Prob following the sub route with tekrok as you say, someday... somehow, if we're still alive
Odds are (if they ever get to them) it'll mostly be in endings where Sabia becomes either an orc slave or new leader (destroying human settlements). Of course there's the slow shift towards sub / dom, which can be considered corruption (though not really since we don't have anything to base Sabia's prior sexual preferences on).
The game has been hot garbage. The last decent update was 0.7. It's clear as day from how things have been downgraded from art to story. They are lazy and leeching off supporters.
- Aug 12, 2018
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Don't mind me. Im just here to mention, that the last update was already almost 3 months ago. 
- Jun 22, 2017
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yeah lets just ignore it XDDon't mind me. Im just here to mention, that the last update was already almost 3 months ago.