VN Ren'Py Kingdom of Deception [v0.14.2.2] [Hreinn Games]

[Verizel]

Depends on what aspect of the story you mean. If you mean the big, overarching "Sabia's mom and the mages are building some dasterdly project and plotting to take Lundar for themselves" storyline, that hasn't gone anywhere for a couple updates now, true, and I'll address that in a moment. If you mean Sabia's personal quest, this last update is the first time it felt like that stalled out somewhat. The first update was the trial and Sabia carving out a place for herself within the tribe, the second was the cat-girl raid and Sabia ascending to a decision-making position within the tribe, the third was the Feast where Sabia cemented her importance in tribal politics, either to a Captain of her choice or as the leader of her own faction, the fourth was the Red God's Arena where Sabia proved herself worthy enough to be granted command of an orcish raiding party, and the fifth was Sabia taking her first steps as a true power within the tribe and striking out beyond the walls of the camp itself.

Now, this last update felt like Sabia was spinning her wheels, to be sure, but Hreinn has said that's because they wanted to get several side stories done before focusing on the next major step for Sabia, which involves her infiltrating some kind of cat-girl gathering going by the previews they've mentioned. But Sabia's personal story has been advancing every update until now. The overarching Troubles in Lundar stuff has been put on the backburner, but Sabia won't have to deal with that for a long time anyway so that's not really a big deal. The tribal politics has had a more splintered focus, depending on whether or not you're siding with a Captain or not, but that feels more like it's done as much as it can for now. Sabia is ultimately using the orcs and once she has her own squad it makes sense she wouldn't bother with the Captains or the tribe as much as she did before. Any further upheavals would be major events like the death of Warchief Groknak that will probably happen eventually but don't seem to be a priority right now. The human side of things with Governor Andian is slowly coming into focus, but Sabia doesn't seem too concerned about it as of yet.

Now, if your main complaint regarding how boring the game has gotten boils down to "Sabia isn't getting fucked enough" I addressed that with my last post and don't feel like I can add anything further. But the plot has been moving ahead. I certainly would prefer the updates to come out at a faster pace, but there's nothing I can do about that.

problem is, plot is just lazy-written and without any changes of situation at all.
She lead catgirl raid because... just anyone else do not want build up their influence? Just like she barely accepted in tribe and she already commanding orc's operation. Yeah, VERY REALISTIC. Warchief do not command, nor captains which, you know, struggling for power in tribe and such possibility very tastefull for them.
Horned Gods night... you can throw away this part of story and nothing would change. It can be after trial, it can be last update -- its just influence nothing.
Red God's Arena was much more better, and have some influence and advancing in story.
Raiding... she do not using her squads for her own goals. She did only few requests of somebody else, nothing more. And like, we just even do not know what exactly she suppose to do with her own forces.
Sabia do not scheming, do not planning anything, just line of events and how she participate in.
Wanna less porn more story? then maybe give players more options to plotting? Nah, Sabia would plot versus random drunk orcs i bar (WITHOUT OUR INTERFERANCE AND EVEN CHOICE! We didnt know what she would do, and she is MC), not versus captais, warshief, shaman or anyone else. More CG for backgrounds, battles, non-sexual events? Nah, you dont need this.
I wanna see good plot and story, but all that stats influence almost nothing, as well as our choices. And she get 70-80% of result without any hardworking. Captains is just... they exist. Thats all. Warchief is more like president of Germany. Do nothing, matters nothing, command nothing. Orcs and captains can do like everything they would like, and Groknak do nothing after the trial.

 

[Xill]

When I first heard of the orc army Sabia was getting the first thing I thought about was gangbangs and Orc cock anytime she wanted. I still hope that happens someday...

Ngl, I was hyped for this game because of Noxian Nights but it looks like it's just moving away from that.

If I can give a good example, I was hoping that the more the game progressed, we could turn Sabia (assuming you take an "evil" or lustful route) into an Osira (LoQO) kind of character that rules an army of huge lustfull orcs (and maybe even other races) that she gets to use anytime she wants.

I'm just unsure that will ever happen now. But even then, I still think because of the art and the writing this is one of the best games on this site.

 

[MasterBlaxter]

problem is, plot is just lazy-written and without any changes of situation at all.
She lead catgirl raid because... just anyone else do not want build up their influence? Just like she barely accepted in tribe and she already commanding orc's operation. Yeah, VERY REALISTIC. Warchief do not command, nor captains which, you know, struggling for power in tribe and such possibility very tastefull for them.
Horned Gods night... you can throw away this part of story and nothing would change. It can be after trial, it can be last update -- its just influence nothing.
Red God's Arena was much more better, and have some influence and advancing in story.
Raiding... she do not using her squads for her own goals. She did only few requests of somebody else, nothing more. And like, we just even do not know what exactly she suppose to do with her own forces.
Sabia do not scheming, do not planning anything, just line of events and how she participate in.
Wanna less porn more story? then maybe give players more options to plotting? Nah, Sabia would plot versus random drunk orcs i bar (WITHOUT OUR INTERFERANCE AND EVEN CHOICE! We didnt know what she would do, and she is MC), not versus captais, warshief, shaman or anyone else. More CG for backgrounds, battles, non-sexual events? Nah, you dont need this.
I wanna see good plot and story, but all that stats influence almost nothing, as well as our choices. And she get 70-80% of result without any hardworking. Captains is just... they exist. Thats all. Warchief is more like president of Germany. Do nothing, matters nothing, command nothing. Orcs and captains can do like everything they would like, and Groknak do nothing after the trial.

I agree with the Bar scene issue. I believe I posted my dissatisfaction with it back when it first came out. As for the other points you make -
It's mentioned several times by several characters (Neve, Vehlis, Dajrab if you do his feast, the orcs that join you if you're doing the Solo route) that the Orc tribe has slipped into a state of stagnation and the Captains are all locked in a stalemate with each other. Tekrok and Rokgrid are too busy scheming against each other to bother with the Catgirl raid or its consequences. Dajrab would presumably rather be doing mysterious things elsewhere than address it himself. Sabia takes the opportunity because the other Captains essentially think it's not worth their time. Following on from that, it's made obvious that Sabia is the only real challenge to their power from the moment she arrives. They're all secure in their positions, they don't need to bother with petty raids to convince other orcs to join them. They've performed many feats and proved themselves worthy long before Sabia showed up, and other orcs in the tribe either follow them, don't care and remain unaffiliated, or don't wish to lead themselves (Jadk, Lutvrog). So Sabia steps up into the unintentional vacuum they've left regarding the rank and file. She can manipulate that for herself or on the behalf of a Captain she allies with, but there's a clear power vacuum and she's very keen to exploit it. It's obvious that Sabia herself will eventually decide who leads the tribe, to the audience at least, and lately it seems like the Captains are coming around on that idea themselves.

Now, I certainly would prefer it if they were more visible on the Solo route. I can see them overlooking Sabia until the Feast, but after that and the Arena it's pretty obvious she's an actual threat. It'd be pretty easy to write some event where Tekgrok shows up while Sabia is training her troops and proclaims them all to be inferior for choosing to follow a human. Then Sabia could turn it around on him or shout him down or tease him or whatever and he could fly into a huff and leave. Sabia gets to show she's not going to let a Captain push her around, Tekgrok gets to put a real good nark on, everyone's happy. But things like that take time Hreinn would rather spend elsewhere. Same for non-sexual CG's. But that's getting more into their slow update pacing, which isn't the point I'm trying to address here.

Regarding the Warchief, he flat out tells Sabia that his job is to keep the peace for as long as he can between the Captains, and he doesn't have the time or inclination to do much else. Dajrab tells her during his feast that Groknak has essentially become burnt out and fears antagonizing Lundar above all other things, so he's not going to be making any serious moves himself. As Warchief, he doesn't need any further influence either. He's also the one who authorizes Sabia to lead the raid, and that sure seems like a command position to me.

All of this is applicable to the later events as well. The Feast is when Sabia or the Captains have the greatest potential influence over the unaffiliated camp (It's when Dajrab chooses to declare his faction openly, for example) so pulling off the best feast establishes Sabia as a focal point in the politics of the tribe, whereas up until then she'd mostly been seen as a useful but minor human. It's understandable that the impact of that would be less visceral than cutting orcs up in the Red God's Arena, but it's just as important. The Arena is something the Captains don't bother participating in because they've all won it before. There's no need to do it again. Sabia still has to prove herself so she undertakes it.

As for her raiding group, if you're on the Solo route Sabia is blatantly using it to harden her followers and attract others to her cause. She doesn't hide that in the slightest. She still takes commands from the Warchief regarding who she can and can't attack, but she's also offering plunder and the chance to get out of the camp and fight, which is all the orcs and cat-girls who choose to fight for her need to skewer anyone she points them at. I'm not sure how clear it is if you choose to ally with a Captain, as I haven't done that myself.

Also, I know the impact of it is lessened by the all-text format and combat being two paper dolls making sound effects at each other, but Sabia clawed her way up from the bottom of the tribe with a lot of work. She trains every day, works her ass off in the stores or spends weeks hunting to build up her treasury, personally commands the Cat-girl raid, personally ensures the success of the Feast either for herself or her chosen Captain, personally slaughters her way through the Arena and makes it quite far through the elite before falling to Lutvrog, takes charge of clearing her name during the murder trial to the point of securing the ambush site, establishing a believable false narrative, coordinating all of the stories of her allies and securing damning evidence against the Shaman, who she's been viciously undercutting since she walked through the gates and decided he was on her shit list. Sabia's been busting her ass. And doing all of that means effort from you, the player. If you choose not to do it you get a Bad End.

Finally, the stats - It's pretty clear most of them will matter later. It's worth remembering that the Orc Camp is supposed to be Act 1/??? and none of us know how far that'll end up going. Your choices do matter, though not as much as some AAA Bioware or Larian game, which I think is acceptable. If you don't like how it's going, you can always come back later. Probably a LOT later, given how slow the release schedule has gotten. But I find most of your points to be unsupported by what's actually happening.

 

[Belly97]

I agree with the Bar scene issue. I believe I posted my dissatisfaction with it back when it first came out. As for the other points you make -
It's mentioned several times by several characters (Neve, Vehlis, Dajrab if you do his feast, the orcs that join you if you're doing the Solo route) that the Orc tribe has slipped into a state of stagnation and the Captains are all locked in a stalemate with each other. Tekrok and Rokgrid are too busy scheming against each other to bother with the Catgirl raid or its consequences. Dajrab would presumably rather be doing mysterious things elsewhere than address it himself. Sabia takes the opportunity because the other Captains essentially think it's not worth their time. Following on from that, it's made obvious that Sabia is the only real challenge to their power from the moment she arrives. They're all secure in their positions, they don't need to bother with petty raids to convince other orcs to join them. They've performed many feats and proved themselves worthy long before Sabia showed up, and other orcs in the tribe either follow them, don't care and remain unaffiliated, or don't wish to lead themselves (Jadk, Lutvrog). So Sabia steps up into the unintentional vacuum they've left regarding the rank and file. She can manipulate that for herself or on the behalf of a Captain she allies with, but there's a clear power vacuum and she's very keen to exploit it. It's obvious that Sabia herself will eventually decide who leads the tribe, to the audience at least, and lately it seems like the Captains are coming around on that idea themselves.

Now, I certainly would prefer it if they were more visible on the Solo route. I can see them overlooking Sabia until the Feast, but after that and the Arena it's pretty obvious she's an actual threat. It'd be pretty easy to write some event where Tekgrok shows up while Sabia is training her troops and proclaims them all to be inferior for choosing to follow a human. Then Sabia could turn it around on him or shout him down or tease him or whatever and he could fly into a huff and leave. Sabia gets to show she's not going to let a Captain push her around, Tekgrok gets to put a real good nark on, everyone's happy. But things like that take time Hreinn would rather spend elsewhere. Same for non-sexual CG's. But that's getting more into their slow update pacing, which isn't the point I'm trying to address here.

Regarding the Warchief, he flat out tells Sabia that his job is to keep the peace for as long as he can between the Captains, and he doesn't have the time or inclination to do much else. Dajrab tells her during his feast that Groknak has essentially become burnt out and fears antagonizing Lundar above all other things, so he's not going to be making any serious moves himself. As Warchief, he doesn't need any further influence either. He's also the one who authorizes Sabia to lead the raid, and that sure seems like a command position to me.

All of this is applicable to the later events as well. The Feast is when Sabia or the Captains have the greatest potential influence over the unaffiliated camp (It's when Dajrab chooses to declare his faction openly, for example) so pulling off the best feast establishes Sabia as a focal point in the politics of the tribe, whereas up until then she'd mostly been seen as a useful but minor human. It's understandable that the impact of that would be less visceral than cutting orcs up in the Red God's Arena, but it's just as important. The Arena is something the Captains don't bother participating in because they've all won it before. There's no need to do it again. Sabia still has to prove herself so she undertakes it.

As for her raiding group, if you're on the Solo route Sabia is blatantly using it to harden her followers and attract others to her cause. She doesn't hide that in the slightest. She still takes commands from the Warchief regarding who she can and can't attack, but she's also offering plunder and the chance to get out of the camp and fight, which is all the orcs and cat-girls who choose to fight for her need to skewer anyone she points them at. I'm not sure how clear it is if you choose to ally with a Captain, as I haven't done that myself.

Also, I know the impact of it is lessened by the all-text format and combat being two paper dolls making sound effects at each other, but Sabia clawed her way up from the bottom of the tribe with a lot of work. She trains every day, works her ass off in the stores or spends weeks hunting to build up her treasury, personally commands the Cat-girl raid, personally ensures the success of the Feast either for herself or her chosen Captain, personally slaughters her way through the Arena and makes it quite far through the elite before falling to Lutvrog, takes charge of clearing her name during the murder trial to the point of securing the ambush site, establishing a believable false narrative, coordinating all of the stories of her allies and securing damning evidence against the Shaman, who she's been viciously undercutting since she walked through the gates and decided he was on her shit list. Sabia's been busting her ass. And doing all of that means effort from you, the player. If you choose not to do it you get a Bad End.

Finally, the stats - It's pretty clear most of them will matter later. It's worth remembering that the Orc Camp is supposed to be Act 1/??? and none of us know how far that'll end up going. Your choices do matter, though not as much as some AAA Bioware or Larian game, which I think is acceptable. If you don't like how it's going, you can always come back later. Probably a LOT later, given how slow the release schedule has gotten. But I find most of your points to be unsupported by what's actually happening.

Agreed!

 

[I Love These Games]

Does anyone know what it says in tents and bar update post? Please tell me!

 

[Verizel]

I agree with the Bar scene issue. I believe I posted my dissatisfaction with it back when it first came out. As for the other points you make -
It's mentioned several times by several characters (Neve, Vehlis, Dajrab if you do his feast, the orcs that join you if you're doing the Solo route) that the Orc tribe has slipped into a state of stagnation and the Captains are all locked in a stalemate with each other. Tekrok and Rokgrid are too busy scheming against each other to bother with the Catgirl raid or its consequences. Dajrab would presumably rather be doing mysterious things elsewhere than address it himself. Sabia takes the opportunity because the other Captains essentially think it's not worth their time. Following on from that, it's made obvious that Sabia is the only real challenge to their power from the moment she arrives. They're all secure in their positions, they don't need to bother with petty raids to convince other orcs to join them. They've performed many feats and proved themselves worthy long before Sabia showed up, and other orcs in the tribe either follow them, don't care and remain unaffiliated, or don't wish to lead themselves (Jadk, Lutvrog). So Sabia steps up into the unintentional vacuum they've left regarding the rank and file. She can manipulate that for herself or on the behalf of a Captain she allies with, but there's a clear power vacuum and she's very keen to exploit it. It's obvious that Sabia herself will eventually decide who leads the tribe, to the audience at least, and lately it seems like the Captains are coming around on that idea themselves.

Now, I certainly would prefer it if they were more visible on the Solo route. I can see them overlooking Sabia until the Feast, but after that and the Arena it's pretty obvious she's an actual threat. It'd be pretty easy to write some event where Tekgrok shows up while Sabia is training her troops and proclaims them all to be inferior for choosing to follow a human. Then Sabia could turn it around on him or shout him down or tease him or whatever and he could fly into a huff and leave. Sabia gets to show she's not going to let a Captain push her around, Tekgrok gets to put a real good nark on, everyone's happy. But things like that take time Hreinn would rather spend elsewhere. Same for non-sexual CG's. But that's getting more into their slow update pacing, which isn't the point I'm trying to address here.

Regarding the Warchief, he flat out tells Sabia that his job is to keep the peace for as long as he can between the Captains, and he doesn't have the time or inclination to do much else. Dajrab tells her during his feast that Groknak has essentially become burnt out and fears antagonizing Lundar above all other things, so he's not going to be making any serious moves himself. As Warchief, he doesn't need any further influence either. He's also the one who authorizes Sabia to lead the raid, and that sure seems like a command position to me.

All of this is applicable to the later events as well. The Feast is when Sabia or the Captains have the greatest potential influence over the unaffiliated camp (It's when Dajrab chooses to declare his faction openly, for example) so pulling off the best feast establishes Sabia as a focal point in the politics of the tribe, whereas up until then she'd mostly been seen as a useful but minor human. It's understandable that the impact of that would be less visceral than cutting orcs up in the Red God's Arena, but it's just as important. The Arena is something the Captains don't bother participating in because they've all won it before. There's no need to do it again. Sabia still has to prove herself so she undertakes it.

As for her raiding group, if you're on the Solo route Sabia is blatantly using it to harden her followers and attract others to her cause. She doesn't hide that in the slightest. She still takes commands from the Warchief regarding who she can and can't attack, but she's also offering plunder and the chance to get out of the camp and fight, which is all the orcs and cat-girls who choose to fight for her need to skewer anyone she points them at. I'm not sure how clear it is if you choose to ally with a Captain, as I haven't done that myself.

Also, I know the impact of it is lessened by the all-text format and combat being two paper dolls making sound effects at each other, but Sabia clawed her way up from the bottom of the tribe with a lot of work. She trains every day, works her ass off in the stores or spends weeks hunting to build up her treasury, personally commands the Cat-girl raid, personally ensures the success of the Feast either for herself or her chosen Captain, personally slaughters her way through the Arena and makes it quite far through the elite before falling to Lutvrog, takes charge of clearing her name during the murder trial to the point of securing the ambush site, establishing a believable false narrative, coordinating all of the stories of her allies and securing damning evidence against the Shaman, who she's been viciously undercutting since she walked through the gates and decided he was on her shit list. Sabia's been busting her ass. And doing all of that means effort from you, the player. If you choose not to do it you get a Bad End.

Finally, the stats - It's pretty clear most of them will matter later. It's worth remembering that the Orc Camp is supposed to be Act 1/??? and none of us know how far that'll end up going. Your choices do matter, though not as much as some AAA Bioware or Larian game, which I think is acceptable. If you don't like how it's going, you can always come back later. Probably a LOT later, given how slow the release schedule has gotten. But I find most of your points to be unsupported by what's actually happening.

You have vacuum of power... but captains cannot raise any additional power in tribe. There is vacuum of power, but no one cannot raise it. And even cannot just kill Sabia, because you know, she is a threat for everyone on Solo route. And threat for Groknak in every route. But he do nothing to stop her, even if he understand that she is a major threat to his policy.
And they do not use all necessary possibilities to raise this power. Like what, Tekrok would not raise more power, respect and glory through the victory on Arena? Or Rokgrid? Yeah, of course. Because its like one-time event for life, you would not raise any additional prestige from being regular, every-year champion.
And we have already 0.6 version, we have like over 40/50 points of some stats... but it will matter later... once... just wait another 10 updates and it will be implemented for sure. Why Freshmulan implemented this shit in second-third update? There is no need to have over 100 hours of gameplay for this. It must start from beginnig, or what the point in this stats at all?
Well, my conclusion is that you like game (me too, in general, and thats the main reason why i so hated how Sierra developing it), but dont want to see it's problems. Ok.
P.S. And yeah, she must implement it, but she would prefer to spend her time on anything but not this game. Thats why we must tirn blind eye on every problem of game. IT SEEMS LOGICAL

 

[MasterBlaxter]

You have vacuum of power... but captains cannot raise any additional power in tribe. There is vacuum of power, but no one cannot raise it. And even cannot just kill Sabia, because you know, she is a threat for everyone on Solo route. And threat for Groknak in every route. But he do nothing to stop her, even if he understand that she is a major threat to his policy.
And they do not use all necessary possibilities to raise this power. Like what, Tekrok would not raise more power, respect and glory through the victory on Arena? Or Rokgrid? Yeah, of course. Because its like one-time event for life, you would not raise any additional prestige from being regular, every-year champion.
And we have already 0.6 version, we have like over 40/50 points of some stats... but it will matter later... once... just wait another 10 updates and it will be implemented for sure. Why Freshmulan implemented this shit in second-third update? There is no need to have over 100 hours of gameplay for this. It must start from beginnig, or what the point in this stats at all?
Well, my conclusion is that you like game (me too, in general, and thats the main reason why i so hated how Sierra developing it), but dont want to see it's problems. Ok.
P.S. And yeah, she must implement it, but she would prefer to spend her time on anything but not this game. Thats why we must tirn blind eye on every problem of game. IT SEEMS LOGICAL

The power vacuum among the unaffiliated orcs came about because Rokgrid and Tekgrok are both considered to hold pretty extreme opinions and Dajrab, while being more middle of the road, basically lacks the charisma to pull too many over to his side. A lot of the orcs are also said to be more or less unconcerned with the future and just want to focus on the now. Sabia doesn't command all of them either, but she puts herself out there as someone who's offering the chance for blood and treasure and the chance to get out of the camp and crack skulls, which is all most of them really want to do anyway. One thing that bothers me is that it's really unclear how big the tribe actually is. It seems to me to be at LEAST a few hundred, but that's just me guessing. How big each faction is is left unsaid as well, so it's hard to draw a bead on a lot of this.

The extreme views are also why Rokgrid and Tekrok and Dajrab are in stalemate. Everyone who thinks they have the right idea joined up with them already, and none of them (Save perhaps Dajrab, but he's got other issues) are willing to compromise on their beliefs to attract more followers. They aren't pursuing more power because there isn't any left for them to grab until Warchief Groknak bites it. Just about everyone you meet reinforces that idea. The tribe is dying a slow death because it's stagnating and doesn't have any easy way out of the situation.

I addressed the Arena point already. Lutvrog flat out tells Sabia that one total victory in the Arena is enough as far as prestige goes. He only goes through it again to test his skills and because he likes to fight. It's worth noting that he wins the current one himself and no one rushes over to his side or anything because Arena victories aren't worth much past the first one. Sabia herself has no intention of doing it again because she got far enough to get the recognition she needs to start leading her own raiding group. This goes back to what I said before about all the Captains having proved themselves long before she fell into the camp. Every orc knows they aren't to be fucked with. Not a single one offers them any kind of physical challenge. They know they'd be mincemeat if they tried.

As for killing Sabia, maybe they could have managed that after the trial and gotten away with it. It's worth noting we still have no idea which Captain ordered the raid on her scouting party. But she's established herself as a force within the tribe now. If someone came for her head, the entire tribe would be in an uproar about it, and who knows how that would play out. The Captains know she can't lead the tribe anyway, and that she has no desire to do so; she just wants a force of her own to go off and do her own thing. The other Captains are a much more immediate threat to each other than Sabia is in that respect.

Warchief Groknak makes it clear from the moment he first talks to Sabia one on one that he's technically the leader of the tribe, but really he has to act according to the tribes desires, not his own. He dislikes Sabia primarily because she's disrupting his carefully constructed neutrality between the Captains and Lundar. Killing her would destroy that neutrality entirely even on the Solo route; if she was allied to a Captain and he ordered her dead that Captain would make their move immediately. It'd be instant civil war, and Groknak fears that most of all.

Like, I get that most of this is only apparent if you actively go looking for it, but it's very much there. As for the early implementation of stats, that's a game dev thing. It's better to have a variable recording stats from the beginning so future builds don't have to have some way to retroactively figure out how much influence you have with Dajrab or something. Most of them probably won't matter for a while, or matter in ways that only Hreinn and @JohnDupont are actively aware of. That's fine. I don't really know why that's an issue for you.

Also, it seems to me like you're ignoring all the issues I have raised with the game because it's easier to make some blanket statement about how I'm just a fanboy. I do like the story. I like the characters. I also think the combat is annoying even if it is easily gameable, the Bar scene was a classic example of a freshman screenwriter's error and seemed tailor-made to piss everyone off, the sex scenes average out to serviceable in almost every case and that's particularly galling given Sierra's long writing history, some characters are being utterly wasted (It's been at least 3 posts since I've bitched about Elmy and that's a record for me), and that the amount of content we get per version really doesn't justify a schedule of 3 updates per year. I've made long-ass posts about all of those things.

So yes, I wouldn't sit here spilling buckets of digital ink over this game if I didn't like it a lot and wanted it to be better than it is. Sabia is my favorite feMC by a mile and I've been playing these kinds of games for way too long now. I want to see where her story goes. Are there problems? Absolutely. Do they (aside from the update schedule and Elmy) get my dander up? Not really. Anyway, I've probably said too much as it is, but I felt it needed saying.

 

[bigpenniser]

You have vacuum of power... but captains cannot raise any additional power in tribe. There is vacuum of power, but no one cannot raise it. And even cannot just kill Sabia, because you know, she is a threat for everyone on Solo route. And threat for Groknak in every route. But he do nothing to stop her, even if he understand that she is a major threat to his policy.
And they do not use all necessary possibilities to raise this power. Like what, Tekrok would not raise more power, respect and glory through the victory on Arena? Or Rokgrid? Yeah, of course. Because its like one-time event for life, you would not raise any additional prestige from being regular, every-year champion.
And we have already 0.6 version, we have like over 40/50 points of some stats... but it will matter later... once... just wait another 10 updates and it will be implemented for sure. Why Freshmulan implemented this shit in second-third update? There is no need to have over 100 hours of gameplay for this. It must start from beginnig, or what the point in this stats at all?
Well, my conclusion is that you like game (me too, in general, and thats the main reason why i so hated how Sierra developing it), but dont want to see it's problems. Ok.
P.S. And yeah, she must implement it, but she would prefer to spend her time on anything but not this game. Thats why we must tirn blind eye on every problem of game. IT SEEMS LOGICAL

Its pretty simple, the game was going to be a premise for Sabia and Neve to take orc dick left and right, and that was obviously the direction it was advancing into (constant bribes with sex, bad endings where she gets fucked by tentacles and/or monsters, Neve fucking everything that moved because she wanted to) until at some point they started to take themselves too seriously and started thinking that they were writing a masterpiece of Titanic Proportions.

Now these are the updates we have. An hour, more or less, of inconsequential dialogues that lead nowhere with nonsensical situations and boring ass gameplay.

 

[alientrip]

I Can't go to the upper camp (android user)

 

[Verizel]

The power vacuum among the unaffiliated orcs came about because Rokgrid and Tekgrok are both considered to hold pretty extreme opinions and Dajrab, while being more middle of the road, basically lacks the charisma to pull too many over to his side. A lot of the orcs are also said to be more or less unconcerned with the future and just want to focus on the now. Sabia doesn't command all of them either, but she puts herself out there as someone who's offering the chance for blood and treasure and the chance to get out of the camp and crack skulls, which is all most of them really want to do anyway. One thing that bothers me is that it's really unclear how big the tribe actually is. It seems to me to be at LEAST a few hundred, but that's just me guessing. How big each faction is is left unsaid as well, so it's hard to draw a bead on a lot of this.

The extreme views are also why Rokgrid and Tekrok and Dajrab are in stalemate. Everyone who thinks they have the right idea joined up with them already, and none of them (Save perhaps Dajrab, but he's got other issues) are willing to compromise on their beliefs to attract more followers. They aren't pursuing more power because there isn't any left for them to grab until Warchief Groknak bites it. Just about everyone you meet reinforces that idea. The tribe is dying a slow death because it's stagnating and doesn't have any easy way out of the situation.

I addressed the Arena point already. Lutvrog flat out tells Sabia that one total victory in the Arena is enough as far as prestige goes. He only goes through it again to test his skills and because he likes to fight. It's worth noting that he wins the current one himself and no one rushes over to his side or anything because Arena victories aren't worth much past the first one. Sabia herself has no intention of doing it again because she got far enough to get the recognition she needs to start leading her own raiding group. This goes back to what I said before about all the Captains having proved themselves long before she fell into the camp. Every orc knows they aren't to be fucked with. Not a single one offers them any kind of physical challenge. They know they'd be mincemeat if they tried.

As for killing Sabia, maybe they could have managed that after the trial and gotten away with it. It's worth noting we still have no idea which Captain ordered the raid on her scouting party. But she's established herself as a force within the tribe now. If someone came for her head, the entire tribe would be in an uproar about it, and who knows how that would play out. The Captains know she can't lead the tribe anyway, and that she has no desire to do so; she just wants a force of her own to go off and do her own thing. The other Captains are a much more immediate threat to each other than Sabia is in that respect.

Warchief Groknak makes it clear from the moment he first talks to Sabia one on one that he's technically the leader of the tribe, but really he has to act according to the tribes desires, not his own. He dislikes Sabia primarily because she's disrupting his carefully constructed neutrality between the Captains and Lundar. Killing her would destroy that neutrality entirely even on the Solo route; if she was allied to a Captain and he ordered her dead that Captain would make their move immediately. It'd be instant civil war, and Groknak fears that most of all.

Like, I get that most of this is only apparent if you actively go looking for it, but it's very much there. As for the early implementation of stats, that's a game dev thing. It's better to have a variable recording stats from the beginning so future builds don't have to have some way to retroactively figure out how much influence you have with Dajrab or something. Most of them probably won't matter for a while, or matter in ways that only Hreinn and @JohnDupont are actively aware of. That's fine. I don't really know why that's an issue for you.

Also, it seems to me like you're ignoring all the issues I have raised with the game because it's easier to make some blanket statement about how I'm just a fanboy. I do like the story. I like the characters. I also think the combat is annoying even if it is easily gameable, the Bar scene was a classic example of a freshman screenwriter's error and seemed tailor-made to piss everyone off, the sex scenes average out to serviceable in almost every case and that's particularly galling given Sierra's long writing history, some characters are being utterly wasted (It's been at least 3 posts since I've bitched about Elmy and that's a record for me), and that the amount of content we get per version really doesn't justify a schedule of 3 updates per year. I've made long-ass posts about all of those things.

So yes, I wouldn't sit here spilling buckets of digital ink over this game if I didn't like it a lot and wanted it to be better than it is. Sabia is my favorite feMC by a mile and I've been playing these kinds of games for way too long now. I want to see where her story goes. Are there problems? Absolutely. Do they (aside from the update schedule and Elmy) get my dander up? Not really. Anyway, I've probably said too much as it is, but I felt it needed saying.

But Tekrok propose everyone to kill, fuck and get treasures again. Why any vacuum would be formed at all then? His soldiers is the most orcish orcs around the world, Tekrok have great plans, but not his soldiers. They are just orcs which want kill, fuck, get money for this. And all arguement can be formulated as:"no one has balls to do something real". Because yeah, struggle for power is about potential civil wars, danger, that you can lose everything right away. Like Sabia did. Only one who need this status-quo is Sabia and Groknak. But Groknak matters nothing really. So, it's all about Sabia. This thing making me pissing off. In general, nothing changed in Lundar, nor among the orcs. And this need only for Sabia gaining power from nothing with hilarious speed. I wouldn't mind it if game was like NN, but if Sierra developing serious game with serious story -- please, give me world which would live it's own life and would not wait a moment when Sabia is ready for something. Give artwork for battles, my (Sabia's) army, how orcs living in their camp. Like drinking, like fighting, anything! I would apreciate it even more then just another scene of fucking. But no, no one do nothing serious, just wait when Sabia gather enough forces and power, and we would never see anything but few general background's from 0.1.

 

[Verizel]

Its pretty simple, the game was going to be a premise for Sabia and Neve to take orc dick left and right, and that was obviously the direction it was advancing into (constant bribes with sex, bad endings where she gets fucked by tentacles and/or monsters, Neve fucking everything that moved because she wanted to) until at some point they started to take themselves too seriously and started thinking that they were writing a masterpiece of Titanic Proportions.

Now these are the updates we have. An hour, more or less, of inconsequential dialogues that lead nowhere with nonsensical situations and boring ass gameplay.

yeah, but if they wanna make serious game, then they must developing its seriously. Wanna serious plot? Make serious plot. Wanna serious game? Create it. But Sierra do not creating serious game, or good porn game at all, she just milking brand "Hreinn Games". And peoples tired of this -- 5.6K$ again of pledges. But on patreon page there is no hate, anger of fans. Only cry how good they are. I believe that majority of such account s is fake's of Sierra for promotion. Ah, and yeah, the solve of problem -- lets just make mutual advertising with developer, almost the same as Sierra, which start couple of projects but cannot develop far enough any of it. Cooperation of greed and lazy developers, thats all what I saw when Hreinn publish that post.

 

[TheSexinati]

*Assumes orcish voice*

Real orcs have class, Real orcs have style, Real orcs use real swords... not stubby-crappy axey-thingies from shit metal!

True orcs vote Rokgrid. True orcs want stabbies and arm-or-thingies with real good stuff, not shitty stuff. Tekrok wants to kill us in stupid war with shit gear. He go fuck himself.

Rokgrid is bestest orc.

 

[Sevatar88]

Its pretty simple, the game was going to be a premise for Sabia and Neve to take orc dick left and right, and that was obviously the direction it was advancing into (constant bribes with sex, bad endings where she gets fucked by tentacles and/or monsters, Neve fucking everything that moved because she wanted to) until at some point they started to take themselves too seriously and started thinking that they were writing a masterpiece of Titanic Proportions.

Now these are the updates we have. An hour, more or less, of inconsequential dialogues that lead nowhere with nonsensical situations and boring ass gameplay.

This 100% this. I liked this game so much better when Sabia was working towards gaining small bits of influence through bribery using her body and gold, before all this titanic mess where she is leading warbands after sucking dick for just 2 weeks. Its absurd, contrived and I hope its not to late for this game to change course.

 

[random.person]

Its pretty simple, the game was going to be a premise for Sabia and Neve to take orc dick left and right, and that was obviously the direction it was advancing into (constant bribes with sex, bad endings where she gets fucked by tentacles and/or monsters, Neve fucking everything that moved because she wanted to) until at some point they started to take themselves too seriously and started thinking that they were writing a masterpiece of Titanic Proportions.

Now these are the updates we have. An hour, more or less, of inconsequential dialogues that lead nowhere with nonsensical situations and boring ass gameplay.

As I said before, I think you are mistaken. The game has since its start set up the story to be about Sabia gathering power to get her revenge against her family. If the goal was the one you state, then they wouldn't have portrayed such a nuanced orcish society and would have gone with a stereotypical barbarous tribe.
As an example, as soon as Sabia accomplishes becoming a member of the tribe she stops working in the tents. And that's at the very beginning of the game. She was always supposed to strive for more than being the camp's bicycle .

 

[bigpenniser]

As I said before, I think you are mistaken. The game has since its start set up the story to be about Sabia gathering power to get her revenge against her family. If the goal was the one you state, then they wouldn't have portrayed such a nuanced orcish society and would have gone with a stereotypical barbarous tribe.
As an example, as soon as Sabia accomplishes becoming a member of the tribe she stops working in the tents. And that's at the very beginning of the game. She was always supposed to strive for more than being the camp's bicycle .

You just see nonexistant nuance and complexity while also wrongly think that this is some best selling masterpiece of a story.

yeah, but if they wanna make serious game, then they must developing its seriously. Wanna serious plot? Make serious plot. Wanna serious game? Create it. But Sierra do not creating serious game, or good porn game at all, she just milking brand "Hreinn Games". And peoples tired of this -- 5.6K$ again of pledges. But on patreon page there is no hate, anger of fans. Only cry how good they are. I believe that majority of such account s is fake's of Sierra for promotion. Ah, and yeah, the solve of problem -- lets just make mutual advertising with developer, almost the same as Sierra, which start couple of projects but cannot develop far enough any of it. Cooperation of greed and lazy developers, thats all what I saw when Hreinn publish that post.

From what old patrons say, every bit of criticism is instantly removed from the posts comments, and also the delays are all Sierra's fault because she doesnt give enough of a shit about the game to write more than a word per day.

Cant confirm this, but I can perfectly see that. The scenes we get could perfectly be for a monthly update, but since he doesnt get the writing, he cant put out the update while simultaneously not being able to make more scenes either.

 

[Verizel]

As I said before, I think you are mistaken. The game has since its start set up the story to be about Sabia gathering power to get her revenge against her family. If the goal was the one you state, then they wouldn't have portrayed such a nuanced orcish society and would have gone with a stereotypical barbarous tribe.
As an example, as soon as Sabia accomplishes becoming a member of the tribe she stops working in the tents. And that's at the very beginning of the game. She was always supposed to strive for more than being the camp's bicycle .

Really? Where is a shock of orcs then? You now, right now HUMAN WOMAN became the WARRIOR OF ORC TRIBE. We do not know, is it for the first time in history (probably it is), but for orcs it must be something... like... brainfuck. Where is shock? Why only few orcs which do not actually recognize her is bar orcs which get killed? Why she yesterday suck dicks, today leading tribe against catgirls, and everyone just Ok with that shit? Its like... US army would be commanded by some Harlem whore during D-Day, and everyone do not give a fuck.

 

[random.person]

Really? Where is a shock of orcs then? You now, right now HUMAN WOMAN became the WARRIOR OF ORC TRIBE. We do not know, is it for the first time in history (probably it is), but for orcs it must be something... like... brainfuck. Where is shock? Why only few orcs which do not actually recognize her is bar orcs which get killed? Why she yesterday suck dicks, today leading tribe against catgirls, and everyone just Ok with that shit? Its like... US army would be commanded by some Harlem whore during D-Day, and everyone do not give a fuck.

That's why I said their society is nuanced. They are not your stereotypical orc tribe made of stupid brutes. They are a society with its rules and values.
In particular, they are not necessarily racist to their core. Some of them belittle Sabia, especially at the beginning, for the fact of being human, but as soon as she proves her worth they respect her, because in that society a warrior's might is a fundamental value that goes beyond race and gender. For the same reason they respect Neve, because she could kill most of them with ease, she is a strong warrior and that's all that matters to them.
To further highlight this, take Tekrok's men as an example. They are racist and think human females should be their slaves. But they are but one of the orc factions. They represent only one aspect of their culture, they're essentially the orc's right-wing. They long for days long past in which their race was proud and strong, whilst now they are weak and confined in small territories.
Meanwhile other orcs have taken a whole different stance, as Rokgrid shows. A more diplomatic way.

There's no great shock for Sabia's success because it's coherent with their tribe's values that the strong may belong. She is strong, thus she is worthy. She has shown them she can withstand their gauntlet and has shown them she can beat most of their warriors.
Strength needs no further reasons, it's apparent she's a better warrior than some of them and she has shown it in the training grounds time and time again.
Besides they know they can't underestimate humans, since their army has crushed them and every other non human army in the world. They know better than deeming indiscriminately weak those that have defeated them and reduced them to a dying race.

 

[Verizel]

That's why I said their society is nuanced. They are not your stereotypical orc tribe made of stupid brutes. They are a society with its rules and values.
In particular, they are not necessarily racist to their core. Some of them belittle Sabia, especially at the beginning, for the fact of being human, but as soon as she proves her worth they respect her, because in that society a warrior's might is a fundamental value that goes beyond race and gender. For the same reason they respect Neve, because she could kill most of them with ease, she is a strong warrior and that's all that matters to them.
To further highlight this, take Tekrok's men as an example. They are racist and think human females should be their slaves. But they are but one of the orc factions. They represent only one aspect of their culture, they're essentially the orc's right-wing. They long for days long past in which their race was proud and strong, whilst now they are weak and confined in small territories.
Meanwhile other orcs have taken a whole different stance, as Rokgrid shows. A more diplomatic way.

There's no great shock for Sabia's success because it's coherent with their tribe's values that the strong may belong. She is strong, thus she is worthy. She has shown them she can withstand their gauntlet and has shown them she can beat most of their warriors.
Strength needs no further reasons, it's apparent she's a better warrior than some of them and she has shown it in the training grounds time and time again.
Besides they know they can't underestimate humans, since their army has crushed them and every other non human army in the world. They know better than deeming indiscriminately weak those that have defeated them and reduced them to a dying race.

Yeah, you was at wars with humans for a thousand years, with genocides and other stuff. Still its OK. Right. And its totally Ok that she suck dicks after training grounds (what, there is again only Tekrok orcs or what?). Do not be stupid, "fraternal nations" can become mortal enemies in few years, and here is thousand-years war. Its like USSR would choose Hitler as president after WW2. And yes, just in 1 month from nobody to big player and leader. Then probably any girl in this world easely can become empress in just 1-2 year with such logic.

 

[LDominating]

Can somebody tell me what is the post "Bar and Tents" all about?

 

[spartan201761]

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