VN Ren'Py Kingdom of Deception [v0.14.2.2] [Hreinn Games]

[Enigmanic]

Well, in my idea of storyline for a game (I am putting down an idea for a game now), aside the minigames, the rest are things that go with preparing the storyline.
If you have the background scenario, and the the storyline developing in it, put down before, then you can also get an idea of how far your branching can bring you (so, cut them before you start developing them), and try to make sure if you put something in the game, it is justified by the scenario and storyline.

I had an argument with Nomo before I abandoned their Patreon and Discord (after I'd been a supporter since 2017). He tried to explain or justify the long development time by saying that the story hasn't advanced past the first map area because they needed to make the art assets for the other locations.

 

[Jinsoyun]

I had an argument with Nomo before I abandoned their Patreon and Discord (after I'd been a supporter since 2017). He tried to explain or justify the long development time by saying that the story hasn't advanced past the first map area because they needed to make the art assets for the other locations.

That sounds like a half truth on Nomo's part. It might not be intentional, at least i can't tell since i don't know him.

On one hand there are two things i said before and i stand by my points:
Artist work in their own pace and since nobody else can make the same art, the rest of us kind of have to deal with it.
And it is also true that new locations will need new assets. Some areas like the elven or shaman villages would need more than just backgrounds and a few new mods to existing character models, and that will take time if the human town expansion is anything to go by.

On the other hand...
I consistently bring this second point up whenever they write something like " we made new stuff so future updates will be faster", because we already know that some updates will require assets that are not ready yet. It's a bit convenient to bring up the required time in defense, but somehow leave it out of the marketing messages.
Also, him using this argument kind of proves the theory that Hreinn has no fixed road map. I mean if they knew that, let's say 0.16 was a patch with in elven town, then it doesn't matter how long it takes to draw it, if the story goes there they have to make it and we have to wait for it.

Either way i still think that their main problem is a lack of planning and management. Even if their road map is flexible, they could do things that help them on the way.

Staying at the example of a new area, let's say that they wanted to go to a minotaur camp and so the game needed both backgrounds and character assets. Then instead of doing it all at once like they did with the human towns and taking up months for one big chunk of content, do it piece by piece:

Start drawing 1-2 minotaur NPCs and introduce them one patch ahead of time. That way some assets are already drawn, players can get some content and the minotaur fans will know that the next patch is for them.
By doing this we have to wait less, the patrons will have less uncertainty and Hreinn will probably get a few extra bucks from those who want that specific content.

 

[punhetas]

For all the guys wandering why they take so long or why they are milking their patreons and so on so on all you have to do is take a look at their discord chat. The fans are literaly so delusional with them that they dont ever question how they work and only talk about theoritical scenarios that they want in the game(like a game that gets updated once a year can have fan generated stuff) and praising them for the work they say they do. If you have such die hard and loyal fans (and i say loyal with the worse way possible) who never question you and throw you money why whould they speed up or actually work? Imagine you beeing in their shoes and having no moral objections like them, you whould do the same.

Every successful game that gets a solid fan base risks deriving in this behaviour.
Breeding season was one of the first big games on the Patreon platform, ranking up to 30 thousand a month. Even when the shit hit the fan and it was known that the dev was spending the money grooming a girl, buying her pianos and shit, the vocal majority was still defending him when nothing substantial was being released for over a year.

Once people get invested they are very reluctant to admit they are betting in the wrong horse and double down instead of recognizing the downfall.

 

[ouch2020]

Every successful game that gets a solid fan base risks deriving in this behaviour.
Breeding season was one of the first big games on the Patreon platform, ranking up to 30 thousand a month. Even when the shit hit the fan and it was known that the dev was spending the money grooming a girl, buying her pianos and shit, the vocal majority was still defending him when nothing substantial was being released for over a year.

Once people get invested they are very reluctant to admit they are betting in the wrong horse and double down instead of recognizing the downfall.

Uh, "grooming a girl", honestly, that expression make it sound like something not so innocent (and I don't mean for the people paying).
Sounds like someone who takes a (much, often) younger girl, and kind of raise her specifically to become his "partner".
In the past, something of that type was done by some nobles and kings, often with more lower class ones (who in general would never become really partner, at best mistresses, at worst, groomed for a bit, used and then thrown away).

 

[Lolicon Kami]

Even when the shit hit the fan and it was known that the dev was spending the money grooming a girl, buying her pianos and shit, the vocal majority was still defending him when nothing substantial was being released for over a year.

Don't see how this is unethical behavior, and don't see how this is grooming. Could you elaborate?

"Grooming" usually carries the connotation that the girl is underage, which if true, is a major problem that should never be defended (unless romeo and juliet laws apply). But you do not mention this fact, so I am unsure of what you are saying constitutes as grooming

Thanks

 

[punhetas]

Uh, "grooming a girl", honestly, that expression make it sound like something not so innocent (and I don't mean for the people paying).
Sounds like someone who takes a (much, often) younger girl, and kind of raise her specifically to become his "partner".
In the past, something of that type was done by some nobles and kings, often with more lower class ones (who in general would never become really partner, at best mistresses, at worst, groomed for a bit, used and then thrown away).

Hum, I see grooming was not the appropriate word, I believe it was not predatory as I implied, more on the sad and pathetic, according to some sources...

Also, there was not anything inherently wrong, except supporting the project blindly ended up killing it in the short run.

 

[bloodmane]

Hum, I see grooming was not the appropriate word, I believe it was not predatory as I implied, more on the sad and pathetic, according to some sources...

Also, there was not anything inherently wrong, except supporting the project blindly ended up killing it in the short run.

maybe simping would be the better term? note that i dont have the context to that story

 

[Enigmanic]

maybe simping would be the better term? note that i dont have the context to that story

It sounds like the point was the dev spent the money on his gold-digging girlfriend instead of developing the game.

 

[ouch2020]

Hum, I see grooming was not the appropriate word, I believe it was not predatory as I implied, more on the sad and pathetic, according to some sources...

Also, there was not anything inherently wrong, except supporting the project blindly ended up killing it in the short run.

No problem. I was just curious. I mentioned the old ages, but in reality, this kind of things still exist - effectively, the difference is that instead of being almost exclusively from the older noble/king side or pushed by her family, nowadays it can be initiated both ways.
It is the "sugar daddy", or even really cases of "prostitution for a new mobile phone or even for a mobile phone charge" (and it is not ony girls from desperate family situations).

lolicon-kami I agree on considering such practice negatively when she is below full legal rights age, and honestly, even when she is above, if done in a kind of predatory way.
I play naughty and dirty computer games, I don't do the stuff for real, but since I suspect from your comment you are from USA, be aware of a few things....

1) Most countries in the World have an "age of consent" for sexual activity that is below the age of full legal rights (so, "under age" for e.g. voting, but not "under age" for sexual activity), and in reality, that includes also many if not most States in USA (a number have age of consent at 16), and most countries do not have (anymore) "statutory rape", i.e. the age difference does not matter, insofar as both are above age of consent;

2) Even in USA, it seems most people think what applies to their State applies everywhere, but it is far from being the case, for a conversation on F95 I had checked.
You have cases like California, where even if both are under 18, they will anyway be punished (age of consent is basically 18), to another state where there is an age of consent, but if they are married then it is legal even if the partner is only 13 years old (?!) independently from the age of the spouse, to another where age of consent is well above 13, but can go as down as to 13 depending on the difference of age with the sexual partner (basically, a form of "statutory rape", but with a "sliding window" mechanism).

3) Even more problematic, I still think the "grown up" should be careful and avoid it, and minors should be protected from "predators", but as I already mentioned, it is a fact that it is not anymore the case that by definition it is the older one that seeks and tries with the younger one, it can well be the opposite.
Of course, I am not talking about pedophily and ten years old, but still, under the age of full legal rights and very young e.g. 15-17 (but even 14).

 

[punhetas]

You must be registered to see the links

The original blog with the posts "washing dirty laundry" are gone, but that's the summary.

Tha article paints S-purple with blame for the demise, but basically HBomb wasn't doing shit for months either, and S-Purble said fuck it and left with the assets and money, and started working on his game, cloud meadow, another game stuck in development hell.

TL\DR: don't throw money blindly to Weg games, unchecked people will take your money and do nothing in return.

 

[MingXiao]

4 years and we still haven't even explored 20% of the map. Only way to fix this would be to change the payment method to updates only.

Its a convoluted mess. Too much is happening at once and we have yet managed to do anything. I think that if they opened up some mail to receive free work would be heavily beneficial because at the moment I got no idea of whats happening and we could have skipped the whole pagan night ritual since they already established a setting for all the characters. Getting to know a character you already know and having them repeat their character to you is superfluous.

 

[MingXiao]

You must be registered to see the links

The original blog with the posts "washing dirty laundry" are gone, but that's the summary.

Tha article paints S-purple with blame for the demise, but basically HBomb wasn't doing shit for months either, and S-Purble said fuck it and left with the assets and money, and started working on his game, cloud meadow, another game stuck in development hell.

TL\DR: don't throw money blindly to Weg games, unchecked people will take your money and do nothing in return.

Oh yeah I remember their month long wait for another animation lol

 

[MingXiao]

I had an argument with Nomo before I abandoned their Patreon and Discord (after I'd been a supporter since 2017). He tried to explain or justify the long development time by saying that the story hasn't advanced past the first map area because they needed to make the art assets for the other locations.

I don't think its hard to draw backgrounds, espically for a game like this. The backgrounds are very simple and cartoonish which imo would take 1-3 hours and max 4 hours. Just watch some map that's been done before and alter it. Oh we need to goto some demonic village? Add the stereotypical human butcher and demon slave auction house alongside the huge building in the middle for their pope/leader. Need to know what it could look like? Just watch Diablo 1's dungeon levels or warhammers new game and look on the Blood Faction.

I think the hard part of games is to make stuff fit toghether but man is this obnoxious.

 

[BIG SOSA]

how do i access cheats?

 

[Karminator]

how do i access cheats?

There are none AFAIK

 

[CourierNPC]

how do i access cheats?

The only way to cheat is by installing and using JDMOD and then pressing SHIFT+O to open the console commands. And cheating here is not one like Skyrim where you input TGM to toggle "God Mode". You can have as much health as you want through the JDMOD's Console Commands. There is a link to JDMOD at the very first post (and page) in this thread. Be sure to read a little slowly so that you don't miss out on anything.

 

[Py Ape]

how do i access cheats?

1. You can use unren(search in the forums).
2. Then extract rpa files using the 3rd option in unren.
3. Open variable viewer in the application(game) by pressing shift+d.
4. Look for variables you want to change(money,relation points,stats).
5. Press shift+o to open console.
6. Use the variable name you want to change which you saw in step 4.
7. Enjoy the game.

Or

Use some kinda mod. Dunno any, I use console.

 

[Dasty456]

This game name foreshadowed the entire development process.

 

[CrimsonMoonwalker]

It seems to me that if they returned to Origins, namely the RPG maker, they would transfer all the game content there, they would have more freedom, and less time would be spent on everything else. There are a lot of RPG makers, there are also a lot of scripts for them with content that adds variety. It would be possible to implement a system of raids, and battles, and puzzles, and other mini-games. And the art would also look beautiful, and the style would be adjusted.
Of course it would take time, but in my opinion the further development of the game would be much faster. And theoretically there would be more possibilities. But alas, we have what we have. Maybe by the end of the year, the developers will make more content with repetitive scenes, a ton of water (I have meaningless text), a bit of plot development, and a series of bugs for aftertaste so that we wait another month for fixes.

 

[voerman]

I don't know. RPGMaker is easy to do generic things, but even with all the scripts out there, it takes a dedicated team to really combine them into something great.