VN Ren'Py Knockout Master [Round 13] [MooN]

[UncleFredo]

The "Time of Choosing" has yet to come. He is a lonely young man...
...

Right now he is just kinda trying to "Have fun", and forget about the psycho that wants to murder him and Alice. When he gets to a more stable state of mind he will have more clarity of direction. One day he may just sit down and ask himself... "What do I really want?" Then he will peruse that.

The "Time of Choosing" hasn't come yet. Be patient he hasn't grown enough yet to make such a choice yet.

I'll make one more attempt to explain.

That picture you paint in your comment is not the MC that you've presented in the game.

First of all you haven't written him as someone who lacks discipline or willpower. He's a successful boxer whose life has revolved around several strengths, among which those two are central. He gets laid by attractive women literally whenever the mood suits him.

Liam may be a psychopath, but he's not an imminent threat, and the MC has the means to neutralize him almost without effort. He doesn't need Rob to find him security, he has contacts there from when he was still associated with the casino. Further his casino contacts make it effortless to hire a private investigatory firm to find Liam. He has the money and contacts to do this with almost no effort. Remember the line "the rich own a private airplane the wealthy own an airport"? You say he's a millionaire, but you're talking hundreds of millions of dollars. Liam is solved by a phone call, perhaps two.

He's living with Alice with whom, at minimum, he's already formed a deeply invested intimate friendship if not a good deal more. The others around him regularly inject themselves into his life to check on him. So in fact he's only as isolated as he chooses to be, and lately he's chosen not to be. In fact you allow the player to determine the degree to which the MC is isolated. In my run he's not isolated at all.

Rose is an 18 year old, living at home with her overly protective mother. An adult in the eyes of the law, but hardly one in reality. The MC is 25. A fully self sufficient adult. He's been making his life choices on that basis for YEARS. As far as Rose was concerned, there was NOTHING unstable about his thought processes. In the interaction with Rose, his only regret is that his attempt to deflower her based on his lie was stopped by her mother's interruption. In fact your statement that "he is just kinda trying to "Have fun"" makes his choice even more damning when his self gratification comes at the expense of an innocent young girl.

Everyone has a story. Everyone hits hard times of one type or another. Difficult times do not remove the consequences of certain choices. It doesn't matter when the "time of choosing" will occur. You've ALREADY had him make a choice that strips him of his humanity turning him into a predatory asshole, and all the excuses don't matter. Principles, honesty, honor, and integrity, aren't something you can turn on and off based on convenience or circumstance. A choice that so fundamentally identifies the nature of the MC should be left to the player.

All that said, I really enjoy your VN and think it's generally excellent. This is my opinion. Obviously opinions vary.

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

I'll make one more attempt to explain.

That picture you paint in your comment is not the MC that you've presented in the game.

First of all you haven't written him as someone who lacks discipline or willpower. He's a successful boxer whose life has revolved around several strengths, among which those two are central. He gets laid by attractive women literally whenever the mood suits him.

Liam may be a psychopath, but he's not an imminent threat, and the MC has the means to neutralize him almost without effort. He doesn't need Rob to find him security, he has contacts there from when he was still associated with the casino. Further his casino contacts make it effortless to hire a private investigatory firm to find Liam. He has the money and contacts to do this with almost no effort. Remember the line "the rich own a private airplane the wealthy own an airport"? You say he's a millionaire, but you're talking hundreds of millions of dollars. Liam is solved by a phone call, perhaps two.

He's living with Alice with whom, at minimum, he's already formed a deeply invested intimate friendship if not a good deal more. The others around him regularly inject themselves into his life to check on him. So in fact he's only as isolated as he chooses to be, and lately he's chosen not to be. In fact you allow the player to determine the degree to which the MC is isolated. In my run he's not isolated at all.

Rose is an 18 year old, living at home with her overly protective mother. An adult in the eyes of the law, but hardly one in reality. The MC is 25. A fully self sufficient adult. He's been making his life choices on that basis for YEARS. As far as Rose was concerned, there was NOTHING unstable about his thought processes. In the interaction with Rose, his only regret is that his attempt to deflower her based on his lie was stopped by her mother's interruption. In fact your statement that "he is just kinda trying to "Have fun"" makes his choice even more damning when his self gratification comes at the expense of an innocent young girl.

Everyone has a story. Everyone hits hard times of one type or another. Difficult times do not remove the consequences of certain choices. It doesn't matter when the "time of choosing" will occur. You've ALREADY had him make a choice that strips him of his humanity turning him into a predatory asshole, and all the excuses don't matter. Principles, honesty, honor, and integrity, aren't something you can turn on and off based on convenience or circumstance. A choice that so fundamentally identifies the nature of the MC should be left to the player.

All that said, I really enjoy your VN and think it's generally excellent. This is my opinion. Obviously opinions vary.

I personally get it. I'm still a few updates behind on this. Haven't played it since we had to make the choice between the best friend and the chick we saved. That doesn't matter though. However, how many of us have made an inherentently evil choice or 5 in our lives? I know I have. But, I do agree with you.

 

[yihman1]

Game is good, but episodes (or rounds, whatever), are way shorter than expected.

We are trying to do more frequent updates. 2-3 months per update, and at our current hardware limitations that is how much renders and animations that can be cranked out. This may improve a bit later when we get better hardware. Trying to include sexy fun times in every update too so they are all fappable. We want to make regular updates and to get into a good rhythm with that and so far so good. We are doing the best we can.

If you're on the Alice pregnancy path, it's really hard to view the actions of MC after learning about her becoming pregnant (flirting with the doctor, comments about Rose to Rob and Michael) as anything other than a unrepentant asshole.

Remember back before MC ever even had sex with Alice? Alice spied on him with Leah... Did this stop her from going after him? No... She enjoyed watching him with another woman. Liam is a very obsessive psycho ex... One thing on his mind Alice Alice Alice Alice Alice... Only Alice... There are no other women but Alice. Our MC has a bit of a different world view. There are other fish in the sea! MC is not smothering her with his toxic obsession. He is a good provider, that baby is never going to go hungry. Nor is he going to neglect Alice. She got a roof over head living in a nicer home than she has lived in before. Eating good food every day. Alice isn't the jealous or possessive type. She has shown no signs of being upset when MC is with Leah, and the same is true of other women.

Similar thought patterns could be said of Leah... They have been best friends, and FWB for a long time. Has she ever brought up "Hey I think we should be a 1 on 1 exclusive couple..." No... She is actually looking to "Spice Things Up" in the bedroom right now as they have been fucking for years... Now they are trying "Roleplaying". Maybe another woman being brought into the bedroom at some point will spice things up even more.

Neither Leah or Alice is going to come out and bash MC with a frying pan angrily if another woman shows up on his radar. They are both happy with how he treats them, and they are okay with sharing him.

man, i thought scarlet will be the steal-ur-young-BF-from-her-own-daughter type of milf
turns out she anything but
never encounter this type of milf before in games lol
kinda refreshing, i guess

i kinda feel like a dick as well
impregnating a girl thats not even ur wife and still in relationship with a girl 7 years younger ??
damn, i think i'll be arrested for that

Scarlet is a special woman that is a little bit old fashioned, and she loves her daughter with all of her heart. She will go to any lengths to make sure that her daughter is happy in her relationships and is getting a good education. Rose may not appreciate or know all her mother does for her... Scarlet is a really good mom and is raising her daughter right. The way I see her back story in my head is that Scarlet was young and foolish when she got pregnant. She doesn't want her daughter making the same mistakes she did... She will do anything so that her daughter will get a good education and good stable loving family... See Rose's dad was never in the picture... The guy probably wanted Scarlet to abort and she refused. Scarlet will do anything for her Rose. ANYTHING!

I'll make one more attempt to explain.

That picture you paint in your comment is not the MC that you've presented in the game.

First of all you haven't written him as someone who lacks discipline or willpower. He's a successful boxer whose life has revolved around several strengths, among which those two are central. He gets laid by attractive women literally whenever the mood suits him.

Liam may be a psychopath, but he's not an imminent threat, and the MC has the means to neutralize him almost without effort. He doesn't need Rob to find him security, he has contacts there from when he was still associated with the casino. Further his casino contacts make it effortless to hire a private investigatory firm to find Liam. He has the money and contacts to do this with almost no effort. Remember the line "the rich own a private airplane the wealthy own an airport"? You say he's a millionaire, but you're talking hundreds of millions of dollars. Liam is solved by a phone call, perhaps two.

He's living with Alice with whom, at minimum, he's already formed a deeply invested intimate friendship if not a good deal more. The others around him regularly inject themselves into his life to check on him. So in fact he's only as isolated as he chooses to be, and lately he's chosen not to be. In fact you allow the player to determine the degree to which the MC is isolated. In my run he's not isolated at all.

Rose is an 18 year old, living at home with her overly protective mother. An adult in the eyes of the law, but hardly one in reality. The MC is 25. A fully self sufficient adult. He's been making his life choices on that basis for YEARS. As far as Rose was concerned, there was NOTHING unstable about his thought processes. In the interaction with Rose, his only regret is that his attempt to deflower her based on his lie was stopped by her mother's interruption. In fact your statement that "he is just kinda trying to "Have fun"" makes his choice even more damning when his self gratification comes at the expense of an innocent young girl.

Everyone has a story. Everyone hits hard times of one type or another. Difficult times do not remove the consequences of certain choices. It doesn't matter when the "time of choosing" will occur. You've ALREADY had him make a choice that strips him of his humanity turning him into a predatory asshole, and all the excuses don't matter. Principles, honesty, honor, and integrity, aren't something you can turn on and off based on convenience or circumstance. A choice that so fundamentally identifies the nature of the MC should be left to the player.

All that said, I really enjoy your VN and think it's generally excellent. This is my opinion. Obviously opinions vary.

There are different sorts of willpower. In a fighting his willpower is up there like Rocky Balboa. Fighting is a big part of his life, but in terms of "Commit to just 1 or 2 women"... It's hard for him to pass up what he sees as a good thing. The latter is something he would have more difficulty with.

Liam is "Off the grid", and in hiding. The police can't find him. He could pop up at any place at any time. He is in fact an extremely dangerous threat that should not be underestimated. MC and Alice are off living there life... Liam... He is sitting and stewing and plotting and making making these plans... Around the clock... All day every day... It's not just a job for him... It's his life. First thing in the morning he thinks of is Alice after a night of dreaming about Alice, then he thinks about her all day again... These wicked thoughts of putting a bullet in MC's brain are always intruding into his mind... Maybe he thinks that's how he can win her back... Liam is not right in the head. Maybe he can take what MC has from him. He is INSANELY jealous of MC.

As for the MC preying on Rose... I swear it's not like that... Her mother may think that, and you may think that, but MC isn't preying on anyone. Even in a "Worst Case Scenario" MC would man up and be better than the fella who Scarlet got knocked up by to make Rose.

 

[UncleFredo]

There are different sorts of willpower. In a fighting his willpower is up there like Rocky Balboa. Fighting is a big part of his life, but in terms of "Commit to just 1 or 2 women"... It's hard for him to pass up what he sees as a good thing. The latter is something he would have more difficulty with.

Well perhaps there are different sorts of will power, but it doesn't matter. The MC has the willpower to live a life of training and dedication, to structure his live around the demands of achieving his goals. His willpower is far broader than just being in the ring. Rocky is a good example. The endless morning runs to exhaustion. The dietary restrictions. The training. The sparring. Let's not forget "women weaken legs". That's not just about fighting, that's about discipline and willpower about the entirety of his lifestyle. He's not some kid. He's a damn adult. No matter how you shape this, seeing lying to an 18 year old to take her virginity as a "good thing" he can't pass up makes him a predatory asshole.

Liam is "Off the grid", and in hiding. The police can't find him. He could pop up at any place at any time. He is in fact an extremely dangerous threat that should not be underestimated. MC and Alice are off living there life... Liam... He is sitting and stewing and plotting and making making these plans... Around the clock... All day every day... It's not just a job for him... It's his life. First thing in the morning he thinks of is Alice after a night of dreaming about Alice, then he thinks about her all day again... These wicked thoughts of putting a bullet in MC's brain are always intruding into his mind... Maybe he thinks that's how he can win her back... Liam is not right in the head. Maybe he can take what MC has from him. He is INSANELY jealous of MC.

Alice knows Francis and where he lives. The MC hires the detectives. They follow Francis. Maybe he leads them to Liam maybe not but he does lead them to any number of other people who know Liam. They can pay whatever amount of money to get someone to give Liam up. You chose to offer Francis 10-20 grand. The MC could make it 10 times that number and never notice. It does not matter that Liam is living in a basement somewhere. The reason the police can't find him is simple resources. The MC can spend whatever is required. Hell just pull all the video from the neighborhood. He'll turn upon a store, gas station, or ATM camera somewhere, or Francis will, or someone else will. In the meantime the MC can hire however many bodyguards to keep Alice and himself safe. You're thinking of this like the MC is a struggling boxer. He's a multi-millionaire. Without a second thought he can hire a dozen of the baddest assed security personnel you can imagine. Liam would be a threat to you or me, but not to someone with the MC's resources.

As for the MC preying on Rose... I swear it's not like that... Her mother may think that, and you may think that, but MC isn't preying on anyone. Even in a "Worst Case Scenario" MC would man up and be better than the fella who Scarlet got knocked up by to make Rose.

I don't have to "think" anything. You've revealed his thought process as he tried to seduce her using the lie that she was his girlfriend. See that's the fundamental issue here. You've revealed his motivation. To deflower an innocent young girl just because he was horny, and he was willing to tell her any lie needed to get into her pants. Then he reflected on that and decided that he'd be stupid to tell her the truth. You can't sugarcoat that because it wasn't an impulse. You had him question that choice and, after considering the impact on Rose, decide to push the lie forward. Your decision reveals that he's a predatory asshole who, when it comes down to truth or lie, is ONLY concerned about his self gratification.

Again it's not about what any of us think. It's what you've, in some detail, shown us in the VN. Which is why that decision should have been left to the player, not forced upon them.

 

[yihman1]

Well perhaps there are different sorts of will power, but it doesn't matter. The MC has the willpower to live a life of training and dedication, to structure his live around the demands of achieving his goals. His willpower is far broader than just being in the ring. Rocky is a good example. The endless morning runs to exhaustion. The dietary restrictions. The training. The sparring. Let's not forget "women weaken legs". That's not just about fighting, that's about discipline and willpower about the entirety of his lifestyle. He's not some kid. He's a damn adult. No matter how you shape this, seeing lying to an 18 year old to take her virginity as a "good thing" he can't pass up makes him a predatory asshole.



Alice knows Francis and where he lives. The MC hires the detectives. They follow Francis. Maybe he leads them to Liam maybe not but he does lead them to any number of other people who know Liam. They can pay whatever amount of money to get someone to give Liam up. You chose to offer Francis 10-20 grand. The MC could make it 10 times that number and never notice. It does not matter that Liam is living in a basement somewhere. The reason the police can't find him is simple resources. The MC can spend whatever is required. Hell just pull all the video from the neighborhood. He'll turn upon a store, gas station, or ATM camera somewhere, or Francis will, or someone else will. In the meantime the MC can hire however many bodyguards to keep Alice and himself safe. You're thinking of this like the MC is a struggling boxer. He's a multi-millionaire. Without a second thought he can hire a dozen of the baddest assed security personnel you can imagine. Liam would be a threat to you or me, but not to someone with the MC's resources.



I don't have to "think" anything. You've revealed his thought process as he tried to seduce her using the lie that she was his girlfriend. See that's the fundamental issue here. You've revealed his motivation. To deflower an innocent young girl just because he was horny, and he was willing to tell her any lie needed to get into her pants. Then he reflected on that and decided that he'd be stupid to tell her the truth. You can't sugarcoat that because it wasn't an impulse. You had him question that choice and, after considering the impact on Rose, decide to push the lie forward. Your decision reveals that he's a predatory asshole who, when it comes down to truth or lie, is ONLY concerned about his self gratification.

Again it's not about what any of us think. It's what you've, in some detail, shown us in the VN. Which is why that decision should have been left to the player, not forced upon them.

You say MC is not a kid, and he is not, but he is still immature in some ways. He had to grow up pretty fast. He had a lot of privilege and was spoiled as a child having wealthy parents. He did not live in want facing the character building hardships that those who have struggled with poverty are well aware of. He was never washing dishes or serving people. He doesn't have that same struggle that people like Rose working at the coffee shop or Leah working at the restaurant or Scarlet working as a single mother have had to go through. This hard work builds character in people, but he hasn't this sort of opportunity for personal growth.

As for using Francis as a way to locate Liam that is why MC was trying to bribe him several times to give up this information outright and voluntarily. It may seem to be a little plot hole that MC does not hire a private investigator to follow Francis in the hopes this will lead to Liam. Alice does not know Francis's home address. He just kind of shows up and then poofs at various times and is a bit mysterious in his own ways. Getting someone capable of following Francis would be difficult as well as he is not exactly on the grid himself, and this may turn Francis hostile as well. Alice does not have Francis's phone number either. He is probably using a burner phone anyways.

As for the Rose situation... Well, technically speaking. Alice is not a girlfriend. Leah is not a girlfriend. There were never any "We are an exclusive couple now!" talks with either of these women. He never put a ring on either girls finger or promised "Commitment" in any way. Rose is actually the one bringing up considering him as her boyfriend, and he did not correct her there. Technically speaking Rose is the MC's first girlfriend. He has never had a girlfriend before only lovers or friend with benefit.

Even if he was a great poet he would have great difficulty explaining "I have other girls in my life right now..." To a pretty girl who is fond of that has just opened up her heart to him. Had he have said something like, "Before we do anything I want to you know I'm hitting it with a couple of girls on the side..." He feared Rose would probably say "GET OUT!" and slam the door in his face and he would never see her again... but he likes her and he doesn't want lose her completely like that. So right now he is omitting certain information from her.

His other lovers is not only information he is keeping from Rose. Surely his great wealth is something he hasn't really shown her. She is a struggling college student working a partime job at a coffee shop. She doesn't know he has got that kind of money in the bank. So, she definitely isn't a gold digger and actually likes him.

 

[worthlesspeon]

So I know accurate medicine is not the point of porn games... but "bleeding inside your skull" which got "infected" would be a fucking neurosurgical emergency, not a treat as an outpatient with some pills and a shot type of deal.

Love the game otherwise

 

[UncleFredo]

...
This hard work builds character in people, but he hasn't this sort of opportunity for personal growth.

Have you any idea the work ethic required to become a successful boxer? You referenced Rocky," train 1000 minutes for every minute in the ring". Yes he doesn't need to work for a living but he works as least as hard as anyone you or I know.

As for using Francis as a way to locate Liam that is why MC was trying to bribe him several times to give up this information outright and voluntarily. It may seem to be a little plot hole that MC does not hire a private investigator to follow Francis in the hopes this will lead to Liam. Alice does not know Francis's home address. He just kind of shows up and then poofs at various times and is a bit mysterious in his own ways. Getting someone capable of following Francis would be difficult as well as he is not exactly on the grid himself, and this may turn Francis hostile as well. Alice does not have Francis's phone number either. He is probably using a burner phone anyways.

Perhaps I'm confused but in their initial meeting Alice explained that she and Liam were staying with Liam's friend. Wasn't that Francis? Certainly Francis indicates that Liam and Alice were inseparable for years. We're supposed to believe she has no idea how to reach him? Doesn't fly. Even if the friend wasn't Francis, that person is a place to start. Grab the thread and go. Also note I did not say to hire a single person, but an organization that has whatever resources were required.

If nothing else flood the neighborhood with 20-50 observers. You fail to understand the resources available to the MC. Even if that proves fruitless, the MC can afford massive 24/7 protection indefinitely.

So let us game plan this a bit. Solid protection around the MC and Alice who go about their daily lives. But the protection isn't obvious. In addition to the protection there are hidden observers looking for any threat. Neither Liam, nor anyone he can recruit are going to get close without triggering a response. Once again you don't recognize the scope of the response to this threat that the MC can casually afford. You chose to make him wealthy. The wealthy are well aware of how to protect themleves.

As for the Rose situation... Well, technically speaking. Alice is not a girlfriend. Leah is not a girlfriend. There were never any "We are an exclusive couple now!" talks with either of these women. He never put a ring on either girls finger or promised "Commitment" in any way. Rose is actually the one bringing up considering him as her boyfriend, and he did not correct her there. Technically speaking Rose is the MC's first girlfriend. He has never had a girlfriend before only lovers or friend with benefit.

Even if he was a great poet he would have great difficulty explaining "I have other girls in my life right now..." To a pretty girl who is fond of that has just opened up her heart to him. Had he have said something like, "Before we do anything I want to you know I'm hitting it with a couple of girls on the side..." He feared Rose would probably say "GET OUT!" and slam the door in his face and he would never see her again... but he likes her and he doesn't want lose her completely like that. So right now he is omitting certain information from her.

His other lovers is not only information he is keeping from Rose. Surely his great wealth is something he hasn't really shown her. She is a struggling college student working a partime job at a coffee shop. She doesn't know he has got that kind of money in the bank. So, she definitely isn't a gold digger and actually likes him.

Except that is not the thought process you revealed to us in the VN. Even if it was it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. It's not about his eloquence in explaining his life situation. When she opens the "girlfriend" conversation, he has to choices. Lie or tell her the truth.

This is brutally simple. It is unmistakable what Rose thinks being his girlfriend means in the context of their relationship and losing her virginity. UNMISTAKABLE. He never considers her a girlfriend. You reveal in the MC's thoughts that, while he knows what she thinks it means, after careful consideration, he decides to lie to her, to mislead her, solely in the interest of deflowering her. That makes him an irredeemable predatory piece of shit.

It doesn't matter what the thought he might lose. It doesn't matter the hairs we split about his relationships with Alice and Leah. What matters is that he KNOWS what Rose thinks they are committing too and he knows he's lying to her. We know this because you tell us.

 

[Zabutnik]

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Can we get this as a MEGA download plz? I'm getting some issues trying to use Mixdrop

 

[yihman1]

Have you any idea the work ethic required to become a successful boxer? You referenced Rocky," train 1000 minutes for every minute in the ring". Yes he doesn't need to work for a living but he works as least as hard as anyone you or I know.

Perhaps I'm confused but in their initial meeting Alice explained that she and Liam were staying with Liam's friend. Wasn't that Francis? Certainly Francis indicates that Liam and Alice were inseparable for years. We're supposed to believe she has no idea how to reach him? Doesn't fly. Even if the friend wasn't Francis, that person is a place to start. Grab the thread and go. Also note I did not say to hire a single person, but an organization that has whatever resources were required.

If nothing else flood the neighborhood with 20-50 observers. You fail to understand the resources available to the MC. Even if that proves fruitless, the MC can afford massive 24/7 protection indefinitely.

So let us game plan this a bit. Solid protection around the MC and Alice who go about their daily lives. But the protection isn't obvious. In addition to the protection there are hidden observers looking for any threat. Neither Liam, nor anyone he can recruit are going to get close without triggering a response. Once again you don't recognize the scope of the response to this threat that the MC can casually afford. You chose to make him wealthy. The wealthy are well aware of how to protect themleves.

Except that is not the thought process you revealed to us in the VN. Even if it was it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. It's not about his eloquence in explaining his life situation. When she opens the "girlfriend" conversation, he has to choices. Lie or tell her the truth.

This is brutally simple. It is unmistakable what Rose thinks being his girlfriend means in the context of their relationship and losing her virginity. UNMISTAKABLE. He never considers her a girlfriend. You reveal in the MC's thoughts that, while he knows what she thinks it means, after careful consideration, he decides to lie to her, to mislead her, solely in the interest of deflowering her. That makes him an irredeemable predatory piece of shit.

It doesn't matter what the thought he might lose. It doesn't matter the hairs we split about his relationships with Alice and Leah. What matters is that he KNOWS what Rose thinks they are committing too and he knows he's lying to her. We know this because you tell us.

Physical training =/= Service Job

In physical training it's all about you. It's you against you, and it's about going that extra mile and pushing yourself to a new limit.

In a Service Job it is primarily about interactions with other people. It's about taking care of their wants and needs. This builds up a certain kind of people skills he doesn't have experience in. It's humbling to work service.

As for Alice not knowing where Francis is that is entirely possible. People move, and change numbers. Francis is probably using a burner phone anyhow. He doesn't technically have a workplace where he would clock in every day. He stays away from all sorts of social media. He moves around a lot, and is out on the streets doing his drug dealing. I guess it can be a "Plot Hole" if you want it to be one, but that it is better to just suspend disbelief and understand that he is difficult person to find and contact.

We are not going to render 30-50 security guards patrolling the neighborhood around the clock. We are adding 2. One for MC and one for Alice. Rendering that many would be too much of a hassle.

If we wrote the story in a way so that we just track down Francis and in turn find Liam that way it would ruin a big part of the plot. There are bigger plotholes in all sorts of popular works of fiction... I'll give a couple of examples...

Terminator... Why don't they just send a terminator back 200 years and kill off one of John Connors many ancestors at a random time and random place? No way to guard them all... It doesn't NEED to be his mom.

Star Wars... How about we don't wait for the death star to get into position to fire on this moon... How about instead we fire directly through that moons planet? Oh btw lets not put any sort of force field or shielding on this exhaust port that is our Achilles heal.

He didn't lie to Rose... Rose is now his girlfriend. His first girlfriend actually... He might dump her at some future point or change that up in some way. He just didn't have it in his heart to say no to her then and there nor to open up about everything.

What he did do however was not give Rose all of the information about himself so there are certain parts about him that he will tell her when the time is ready. The time was NOT ready then.

 

[JokerLeader]

Can we get this as a MEGA download plz? I'm getting some issues trying to use Mixdrop

You can download directly from the Patreon link

 

[SteelyDan14]

We are not stopping at one potential pregnancy. There will be more of that to come. Any sort of marriage would be way far away in an ending if we put that in.

No incest in this game.

Speaking of pregnancy, I think the Alice bug is still there. There was a scene where Alice leaves with Rob for work and out of no where the MC touches Alice's belly and says I can't wait to feel them kick. And yes, I have 8.1.

 

[yihman1]

Speaking of pregnancy, I think the Alice bug is still there. There was a scene where Alice leaves with Rob for work and out of no where the MC touches Alice's belly and says I can't wait to feel them kick. And yes, I have 8.1.

Moon fixed that in future versions.

 

[gregers]

As for the Rose situation... Well, technically speaking. Alice is not a girlfriend. Leah is not a girlfriend. There were never any "We are an exclusive couple now!" talks with either of these women. He never put a ring on either girls finger or promised "Commitment" in any way. Rose is actually the one bringing up considering him as her boyfriend, and he did not correct her there. Technically speaking Rose is the MC's first girlfriend. He has never had a girlfriend before only lovers or friend with benefit.

Technically speaking, if you're knowingly resorting to weasel words and "technically speaking" to manipulate someone into having sex with you under false pretences, you're a predatory arsehole. That's OK, there are plenty of games on here where the MC is an unequivocal villain and some of them do solid business.

But you don't get to have your cake and eat it; if you're writing your MC as a predator, do that, don't try to sell him as some goody-goody white knight when that doesn't match his behavior at all.

 

[delacroix2]

Nice update, thanks!

 

[yihman1]

Technically speaking, if you're knowingly resorting to weasel words and "technically speaking" to manipulate someone into having sex with you under false pretences, you're a predatory arsehole. That's OK, there are plenty of games on here where the MC is an unequivocal villain and some of them do solid business.

But you don't get to have your cake and eat it; if you're writing your MC as a predator, do that, don't try to sell him as some goody-goody white knight when that doesn't match his behavior at all.

You can't cheat on a FWB. Both Alice, and Leah fall into that category. Fuck them both in every hole? Yes... Love them both? Yes... Committed relationship agreement to either of them at that point in the game? No...

In order for someone to act predatory then they need to have someone that is their prey. Rose is not the prey of the MC.

Stopping in the middle of fooling around to spell out all of your baggage to a woman you are having some foreplay with is literally the most beta soyboy thing any man could do.

You got a girl that is hot to trot, and things are heating up right in front of you... and you want to be like... "Before we keep fooling around the other day I was having anal sex with this other girl that I kick it with as a friend with benefits..."

Talk about a mood killer...

I am not saying MC is a saint because of what he did in that scene, but he did the smart move in not bringing it up in the heat of passion and ruining that moment.

I'm telling you... Rose would have cried herself to sleep that night... maybe even killed herself because of her broken heart if MC dropped that bomb on her at that point in time. Thinking with his dick may have saved her life.

 

[UncleFredo]

You can't cheat on a FWB. Both Alice, and Leah fall into that category. Fuck them both in every hole? Yes... Love them both? Yes... Committed relationship agreement to either of them at that point in the game? No...

What you're missing is that as the player I get to choose my relationship goals with the LIs. So if I knock up Alice and she asks me if I want to have a child with her and I say yes I get to decide if my feelings toward her are FWB. Similarly, while neither the MC nor Leah have acknowledged that they are have feelings for each other beyond FWB, you the writer, have shown us their inner thoughts and motivations. Clearly that relationship is changing to something more that FWB, and once again as the player I get to decide the MC's relationship goals.

In order for someone to act predatory then they need to have someone that is their prey. Rose is not the prey of the MC.

I suggest you go back and read the thoughts that go through the MC mind in that scene with Rose. He certainly sees her as a sexual target and is dishonest in his true feelings when he acknowledges her as ahis girlfriend. Whether you intended for her to be prey he certainly treats her that way.

Stopping in the middle of fooling around to spell out all of your baggage to a woman you are having some foreplay with is literally the most beta soyboy thing any man could do.

You got a girl that is hot to trot, and things are heating up right in front of you... and you want to be like... "Before we keep fooling around the other day I was having anal sex with this other girl that I kick it with as a friend with benefits..."

Talk about a mood killer...

I am not saying MC is a saint because of what he did in that scene, but he did the smart move in not bringing it up in the heat of passion and ruining that moment.

This would be very different if Rose was more experienced, not so naive, and more worldly, but she's not. You've created her as an utter innocent. The only reason she's hot to trot and things are heating up is because the MC has lied to her about both his true feelings and the relationship he's actually willing to engage in, if any.

So yes, the player should have the option to say in effect, "I really like you but I'm currently seeing other women. I'd want to pursue a relationship with you, but I like you too much to be anything less than honest." The player should have that option as soon as the word girlfriend enters the conversation.

Given the conduct you wrote for him and the motivations you've given him, you have no basis to suggest he's anything other that an immoral predatory piece of shit.

I'm telling you... Rose would have cried herself to sleep that night... maybe even killed herself because of her broken heart if MC dropped that bomb on her at that point in time. Thinking with his dick may have saved her life.

Maybe so but that has nothing to do with his conduct. If that was a possibility you should have put hints that she might have that reaction in their dialog and have him consider that before his answered, but you did not. His thoughts as you revealed were solely and only about deflowering her and getting laid.

As to your generalized comments about the MC now has a girlfriend.
So what expectations does Rose have about the MC conduct with other women since he's her boyfriend and she's his girlfriend? Clearly she expects him to forgo sexual intimacy with others. Clearly she expects he will not go behind her back and cheat on her. Clearly she expects him to be honest in his dealings with her. Further, there is no doubt that the MC recognizes this.

So now the MC goes to Alice and says what? " I have an eighteen year old girlfriend now so we won't be sexually intimate any longer?" Should the player have decided to knock her up and agree to raise the child together, he now says "So we'll have to rethink the whole plan to raise the child together"? Similarly, all his changing feelings toward Leah are set aside?

The only reason that the MC hasn't been an asshole to Alice or Leah, is that he's been honest with them. All three of them have knowledge of the various relationships that exist between them and the MC. So, without regard to the player's choices in how to progress the MC's relationships with Alice and Leah, you've arbitrarily placed him in a very specific dishonest relationship with Rose. One that your players may find unacceptable.

I've said before that I like your VN very much and I think it's generally excellent. No comment I make here is intended to suggest that is not still the case. From my perspective, you have a problem in your storyline. I'll wait to see if and how you address it.

 

[yihman1]

What you're missing is that as the player I get to choose my relationship goals with the LIs. So if I knock up Alice and she asks me if I want to have a child with her and I say yes I get to decide if my feelings toward her are FWB. Similarly, while neither the MC nor Leah have acknowledged that they are have feelings for each other beyond FWB, you the writer, have shown us their inner thoughts and motivations. Clearly that relationship is changing to something more that FWB, and once again as the player I get to decide the MC's relationship goals.


I suggest you go back and read the thoughts that go through the MC mind in that scene with Rose. He certainly sees her as a sexual target and is dishonest in his true feelings when he acknowledges her as ahis girlfriend. Whether you intended for her to be prey he certainly treats her that way.



This would be very different if Rose was more experienced, not so naive, and more worldly, but she's not. You've created her as an utter innocent. The only reason she's hot to trot and things are heating up is because the MC has lied to her about both his true feelings and the relationship he's actually willing to engage in, if any.

So yes, the player should have the option to say in effect, "I really like you but I'm currently seeing other women. I'd want to pursue a relationship with you, but I like you too much to be anything less than honest." The player should have that option as soon as the word girlfriend enters the conversation.

Given the conduct you wrote for him and the motivations you've given him, you have no basis to suggest he's anything other that an immoral predatory piece of shit.



Maybe so but that has nothing to do with his conduct. If that was a possibility you should have put hints that she might have that reaction in their dialog and have him consider that before his answered, but you did not. His thoughts as you revealed were solely and only about deflowering her and getting laid.

As to your generalized comments about the MC now has a girlfriend.
So what expectations does Rose have about the MC conduct with other women since he's her boyfriend and she's his girlfriend? Clearly she expects him to forgo sexual intimacy with others. Clearly she expects he will not go behind her back and cheat on her. Clearly she expects him to be honest in his dealings with her. Further, there is no doubt that the MC recognizes this.

So now the MC goes to Alice and says what? " I have an eighteen year old girlfriend now so we won't be sexually intimate any longer?" Should the player have decided to knock her up and agree to raise the child together, he now says "So we'll have to rethink the whole plan to raise the child together"? Similarly, all his changing feelings toward Leah are set aside?

The only reason that the MC hasn't been an asshole to Alice or Leah, is that he's been honest with them. All three of them have knowledge of the various relationships that exist between them and the MC. So, without regard to the player's choices in how to progress the MC's relationships with Alice and Leah, you've arbitrarily placed him in a very specific dishonest relationship with Rose. One that your players may find unacceptable.

I've said before that I like your VN very much and I think it's generally excellent. No comment I make here is intended to suggest that is not still the case. From my perspective, you have a problem in your storyline. I'll wait to see if and how you address it.

The player indeed may be feeling more than just FWB towards Alice or Leah at this point in time. However, these conversations about changing the title of the relationship have not yet occurred with either of them. If MC went to either of them and said; "I want you to become my girlfriend from now on." or even; "Hey, how about we get married some day?" I pretty sure the MC could get both of them to say yes to that, but I am not going to get into future events in detail and spoil future scenes. Suffice to say relationship experience is high with the both of them at this point in time and things are going well, and they are ready for something else when the time comes.

Just because someone is a "Sexual Target" as you put it does not mean that you are acting "Predatory" towards them if you choose attempt to seduce them, and they welcome this. His thoughts never go to; "I'm going to drug her up and chain her to the bed like it or not!" Just because you want to fuck someone doesn't mean you want to be predatory towards them. Not spilling all of your baggage when you are fooling around doesn't mean you are a sexual predator.

I agree things would be very different if Rose was far less innocent. If she fucked every guy on the football team she would likely have different mindset about sex. Even under those circumstances it's not advised to just sperg out and spill the spaghetti at a girl talking about other girls you may or may not be sexual with. Maybe bring it up later and talk about it sometime if you want, but not in the middle of fooling around. Only a fool would do that.

In my own personal life experience when I was a teenager I have done something very similar to what you are suggesting mc should have done, and that was one of the biggest mistakes I ever made in my life. That the was 1 time I made my girlfriend at the time cry in year long relationship. She asked, "Which one of my friends do you think is the sexiest?" and like the great fool I was I answered like she was just a "Guy Friend", talking about other girls I may have want to fuck... and once that spaghetti was out of my pockets there was no way for me to fix the situation, and things changed for the worse after that. She started feeling more self-conscious and she cried a lot and we eventually stopped seeing each other... I was good guy writer here though, and let our protagonist avoid the same fate I had in the past. Still to this day 20 years later I regret that sometimes... Angie... my sweet angel... my wife that never was because I was too retarded to keep my mouth shut. I should have said; "Lets not talk about them. I love you", but I fucked that up in the worst of ways.

Sometimes you must lie to a woman to keep shit from hitting the fan. Maybe MC should have said what you suggest, and maybe Rose would have taken it well... Then Rose would have had a discussion with her mother, and maybe her mother would have taken it wrong saying "I don't like that boy. He is just some player. He is bad news. I want you to break up with him." Scarlet already has some dislike for MC. MC saying he has other women is just too much for her to handle right now. This may have put Rose into an awkward situation where she has to get in an argument with her mother defending you over something that may actually be hurting her feelings... SADISTIC! Why do that to them? They are nice people. Why torture them like that?

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

Sometimes you must lie to a woman to keep shit from hitting the fan.

Umm what? I think something is wrong with that statement. Lying is never the thing to do. Lying causes even more hurt later when the truth is found out. Lying is never the answer. Anyone who says it is, is crazier than a bedbug and needs their heads examined. I'd rather have 'shit hit the fan' now than later. Because later it will be worse.

 

[yihman1]

Umm what? I think something is wrong with that statement. Lying is never the thing to do. Lying causes even more hurt later when the truth is found out. Lying is never the answer. Anyone who says it is, is crazier than a bedbug and needs their heads examined. I'd rather have 'shit hit the fan' now than later. Because later it will be worse.

Alright I got one for you... You are with a girl for a year. You love her. She has got a cute friend, and you are friends with that cute friend too. One day she asks you. "Do you like my friend?", and of course you are an honest guy and say "Yea I think she is great." and she is, and you are being supportive and not trying keep her from having this friend. Good guy so far everything is great...

Next there is a follow up question. "Do you find her attractive?" Of course you do... You never lie to this woman of course... So you say, "Well yea she is a very pretty girl, and you are beautiful too." tacking on the compliment to her at the end... She looks you up and down... Then she just nods her head at you you can tell the gears are turning her mind and she goes "Uh huh... I see."

Then she asks you, "Well do you want a threesome with the two us I can call her up right now?"

Do you be honest and say, "Fuck yea I am down!" Because if you do... She is going to FLIP THE FUCK OUT! You just failed her shit test! "You cheating lying mother fucker! I knew it! Get the fuck out of here! I never want to see either of you again! GO BE WITH HER!" You done gone and fucked that up son...

Instead you look her dead in the eyes with a confused look and say, "Why would you ask me such a thing?"

 

[Deleted member 1571716]

Alright I got one for you... You are with a girl for a year. You love her. She has got a cute friend, and you are friends with that cute friend too. One day she asks you. "Do you like my friend?", and of course you are an honest guy and say "Yea I think she is great." and she is, and you are being supportive and not trying keep her from having this friend. Good guy so far everything is great...

Next there is a follow up question. "Do you find her attractive?" Of course you do... You never lie to this woman of course... So you say, "Well yea she is a very pretty girl, and you are beautiful too." tacking on the compliment to her at the end... She looks you up and down... Then she just nods her head at you you can tell the gears are turning her mind and she goes "Uh huh... I see."

Then she asks you, "Well do you want a threesome with the two us I can call her up right now?"

Do you be honest and say, "Fuck yea I am down!" Because if you do... She is going to FLIP THE FUCK OUT! You just failed her shit test! "You cheating lying mother fucker! I knew it! Get the fuck out of here! I never want to see either of you again! GO BE WITH HER!" You done gone and fucked that up son...

Instead you look her dead in the eyes with a confused look and say, "Why would you ask me such a thing?"

Fuck no. Because I don't share. I wouldn't want those 2 touching each other and if we've been together for a year, she would already know that. But, if I was into it, I'd tell her straight up: "Sure. Let's try it."