Ren'Py Lab Rats 2 - Reformulate [v2024.08] [Tristim/LZ_Starbuck/Trollden]

[Elpescador]

Maybe this will help reduce some confusion.
I finally got permission to start another thread for my mod.
https://f95zone.to/threads/lab-rats-2-mod-diconica.108097/
Waiting on admin to approve the release still.

So correct me if I'm wrong, your mod is more a bug and system fix? Does it have cheats?

 

[Daxter250]

wtf. i have a second sister i don't know of?

 

[Diconica]

welcome to vrens game xD. that shit always has some broken code i guess. i downloaded and replaced the old file. lets see if it will happen again.

btw. got another error for you . dunno if they are the same, i did compare both of them and they look different.
this time it just happened when i was ending a day.

Damn I am dumb. I did a quick search found this.
https://f95zone.to/threads/lab-rats-2-v0-49-2-vren.7260/post-7514355
they have the same error.
It's not part of my mod. Happening with the base game itself. It appears to by an issue going on with renpy and linux's python 2.7 Not sure though. I even tried to go into the source code for renpy and pygame.
I checked what I was passing to randint() there is no issue there.
Hopefully someone else on here knows what it is.

 

[Diconica]

welcome to vrens game xD. that shit always has some broken code i guess. i downloaded and replaced the old file. lets see if it will happen again.

btw. got another error for you . dunno if they are the same, i did compare both of them and they look different.
this time it just happened when i was ending a day.

Ok, figured out what is going on.
I made some changes to catch the issue before it got there.
You can replace that one file with this one or download the mod same link again and it should be fixed.

You must be registered to see the links

for those that are wondering what the issue is caused by.
Renpy randint uses python randrange(floor,ceiling, step) function. The (1,1,0) is what the randrange is bitching about. If you pass a floor and ceiling to randrange it errors rather than simply use that value. Shitty, programming I know.

The way the function works is it makes a list of traits that comprise the base of the serum.
It then makes a list of all the other ones.
I failed to ensure this of bases was only made with one's you unlocked like I did the rest of the traits.
Which then I ended up checking for the wrong level and ...
Long story short think its fixed now.

 

[Diconica]

So correct me if I'm wrong, your mod is more a bug and system fix? Does it have cheats?

You can read what it does here.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[alex2011]

I get how you want the focus to be more on the story content but you are missing a huge issue.

The more code he tries to write in other areas means he would have to make a lot larger changes later on that would take more time.
Vren's choice to focus on the underlying functions of the game is actually the correct and professional choice one should make in this case.

Let's say he wrote thousands of lines of game content based on some version.
He then comes up with decides to add in health stats. Maybe, the girl gets sick or injured or whatever.
Just think how many lines of code he would need to change more for all the checks that could make.

If you consider there is probably about 1 or more checks ever 4 to 5 lines of code think about the added work that would mean fixing after the fact. It means vastly more bugs.
Lets say he has 10,000 lines of dialog now. He adds 5000 more in on the new content you want rather than work on the base system. So he has 15,000 lines of code and about 3000 check points to go over and hopefully not miss any. Rather than the 2000 he currently has.

Let's be honest. He isn't a professional game developer. Frankly, he is doing more than a little alright considering his skill level and what he is working with.
Even professional developers fail in development at times and planning and so on.

The way you should be looking at this is you want him to get the base stuff done and over with and then he can focus on purely the content side. But if he has to come back later on after making a lot of content and make changes to the base that will create much larger intervals that has no content being created.

He wouldn't have to make changes so severe that the player can't go more than one update on a single game. On a big game like this, where it is more long term as opposed to VNs lasting as long as there is story and MAYBE a bit of post game, that's a huge burden on the player both in actual gameplay and on their willingness to continue playing.

I'm not saying it isn't right to focus on the underlying structure, but that shouldn't be done so frequently that some players may only have time to sit through what they already went through last update before a new update comes out. At the frequency of updates, assuming Vren maintains the current pace, and as the game grows even larger, this will become a very big issue. Eventually, the game will reach a point where even the most adamant players won't be able to finish the current content at the time before the next update and they would simply be repeating the same content in a long cycle of restarts. I'm not saying Vren shouldn't have worked on the underlying systems all at once, but maybe that should have been taken care of behind the scenes before the first public release so players aren't burdened with restarts every update. The problem is the game shows no signs of reaching an end point to these underlying mechanics and Vren does have to do content updates eventually, which will eventually compound into the long cycle I mentioned above.

I do want him to get the base stuff done, but it should have been laid down as a foundation for the story, not built alongside. That was probably his single biggest mistake this time around from a purely development standpoint. I could list a few other things, but those I'm not counting a development since I mean under the hood, the code, when I say development. Had this been another VN style game like the first, yes, he probably could get away with working on both at the same time, but this is basically an economic management sandbox with significantly different mechanics that is being treated the same as its VN predecessor when a different approach would have worked better.

I would agree, if he was on update 5, or let's be generous, update 10. But it's almost update 50, over four years of development, and there's still variables to implement? The gameplay system will have sweeping changes that will need the game code and story to need to be rewritten from scratch? I don't buy it.

Something is not right with the development, either the guy doesn't know what he's doing, at all, so he expends his time redoing the same thing over and over because it is always wrong; or he is purposefully staling since people are still paying, the more he delays the more money he makes off the game.

This right here is my issue, the story shouldn't have even been started without its foundation and the foundation should have been done a while ago. I think this may have been a project too big for Vren to handle on his own. I don't buy Vren stalling, but I could see him having issues on a project this big. He's one man with basically no official support from people who know what they are doing, official being used to separate the modders out from official game development, which I do believe is Vren alone, trying to create the VN equivalent of an open world AAA game like Skyrim, there were bound to be hiccups.

Again you still aren't thinking of the dynamics of what is going on.

First, he is allowing supporters dictate some stuff about the game. Because of that it means not everything is planned out before hand. Meaning he couldn't possibly know every variable he will and won't know when it is up to the fucking whim of other people.

You are right there is something wrong with development.
First, he started a game like this as an amateur. He has no other software experience. He is learning python and programming as he goes. You can tell that from the improvements he has made since the first game right through all the updates he has for this version.
Second, he is letting others have a say in the game so he can't fully plan stuff out. He should have came up with something else to offer them. Or if they wanted a say in the game build them an API and let them create add-on content.

Then you have people like yourself who have little to no understanding of software / game development bitching about stupid shit. How can I tell your level of experience because I wouldn't have to explain the shit above to any of the people I work with. Which means you aren't anyways close to that level.

Do I complain about stuff related to this game sure as hell do. I make points about code issues and lazy behavior on Vren's part. He over relies on just random numbers way to often rather than thinking on how stuff is tied together. Which is why I created a mod to fix those type of issues. Those issue stem from him either being an amateur or lazy. Some times I can't tell which it is.
But this issue at had we are discussing isn't that.

If you take a look at most the canceled games on this site and look at their source code you will notice something. They kept adding content on top of bad code over and over again. Rather than spend the time to clean up the underlying code they piled shit on top of shit. Eventually the task of fixing it becomes to daunting or overwhelming and they quit.
Frankly, I'd like to see him avoid that.

That first part is major yikes territory, letting the patrons have some power is fine, but they shouldn't be the ones to dictate HIS game to him, that's just going to lead to a war of opinions that will lead the game in circles. This is why things should always be planned and the groundwork laid out before, to prevent it going in circles until Vren just gets burnt out from inability to find a way forward. Story content is fine to allow the patrons to have a say in, but under no circumstances should entire mechanical parts of the game be theirs to control, there's no telling if patrons are aware of the repercussions on a programmer's level and there's no telling if a mechanic they want is even possible.

The second part is partially incorrect as he does have the experience from Lab Rats 1, also done in Renpy, a different type of game, but there is programming and other development experience to be gained from that. Still, you're right, he went into a game this big with maybe one VN type game under his belt, that's a big mistake.

I don't think it was him being lazy on the random numbers, probably his lack of experience. He did gain some general experience with Lab Rats 1, but that can't have been enough to tell him how he needs to go about things like that, maybe if it was his third or fourth game, but not his first as far as I'm aware. I do believe this is him being an amateur, I still have faith he isn't getting lazy.

Most canceled games on here, not all, are the first work of the developer and they are usually done in the same way this one is, with the story and the mechanical code being developed at the same time. This is why I am under the impression this game should have been developed with the public release starting only after the base code was fully implemented, an impression that includes the assumption that no allowances were to be made for patrons to dictate mechanics, only story. I would love to see him beat the odds and finish this game, but considering the circumstances, the odds are strongly in favor of eventual abandonment due to burn out on Vren's end.

That's not fair.

Is VRens second title and, iMO, is even better than LR1, at least good enough to make ppl code mods for it. I mean, no suspicion on milking patreons here, at least for me.

Of course, as player that LOVES the game, I could consider myself in the right of demanding a clear milestone system, and complain about changes in the gameplay and/or if the game heads in a direction I dislike... but again, is VRens time, VRens game, and VRens rules.

The day I consider the game is completelly ruined (I hope it won't happen), I'll fetch a "when-still-was-good" old version, and stay away from this project.

It is perfectly fair, mistakes were made, you said it yourself, this is Vren's second game, which makes it much more likely for him to make mistakes like developing the mechanics this late into development than if it were his fourth. A seasoned developer would not easily make this mistake, but Vren isn't a seasoned developer. Whether it is better than LR1 is subjective and I am of the opinion that it currently is not , but could be with the right development choices. Mods are not an indication that a game is good, not when some of the mods are being made to counter mistakes being made by the developer.

I also do not suspect Vren of milking, he doesn't seem like the type that would. I hope for both of us that the day it becomes ruined in either of our eyes doesn't come.

 

[Diconica]

He wouldn't have to make changes so severe that the player can't go more than one update on a single game. On a big game like this, where it is more long term as opposed to VNs lasting as long as there is story and MAYBE a bit of post game, that's a huge burden on the player both in actual gameplay and on their willingness to continue playing.

I'm not saying it isn't right to focus on the underlying structure, but that shouldn't be done so frequently that some players may only have time to sit through what they already went through last update before a new update comes out. At the frequency of updates, assuming Vren maintains the current pace, and as the game grows even larger, this will become a very big issue. Eventually, the game will reach a point where even the most adamant players won't be able to finish the current content at the time before the next update and they would simply be repeating the same content in a long cycle of restarts. I'm not saying Vren shouldn't have worked on the underlying systems all at once, but maybe that should have been taken care of behind the scenes before the first public release so players aren't burdened with restarts every update. The problem is the game shows no signs of reaching an end point to these underlying mechanics and Vren does have to do content updates eventually, which will eventually compound into the long cycle I mentioned above.

I do want him to get the base stuff done, but it should have been laid down as a foundation for the story, not built alongside. That was probably his single biggest mistake this time around from a purely development standpoint. I could list a few other things, but those I'm not counting a development since I mean under the hood, the code, when I say development. Had this been another VN style game like the first, yes, he probably could get away with working on both at the same time, but this is basically an economic management sandbox with significantly different mechanics that is being treated the same as its VN predecessor when a different approach would have worked better.

I'd say you are correct if Vren was a programmer at my level. He's not and when he started the project he was far less experienced. So had no idea what really he would and wouldn't need. Then he took on the extra burden of letting patrons provide input.
Add to that he is using the save system from Renpy which he as no real control over unlike if he made his own save system.
If he had more control over how and what was saved
I think this post gives a good example of the issue. It isn't as if Vren can't fix this issue. He probably doesn't know how.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[alex2011]

I'd say you are correct if Vren was a programmer at my level. He's not and when he started the project he was far less experienced. So had no idea what really he would and wouldn't need. Then he took on the extra burden of letting patrons provide input.
Add to that he is using the save system from Renpy which he as no real control over unlike if he made his own save system.
If he had more control over how and what was saved
I think this post gives a good example of the issue. It isn't as if Vren can't fix this issue. He probably doesn't know how.

You must be registered to see the links

He's clearly not, this is only his second game. He definitely made some huge mistakes.

 

[Elpescador]

You can read what it does here.

You must be registered to see the links

So, no cheats. This game is wayyyy to grindy without them. Good to know, I'll skip it.

 

[legendppk]

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wtf. i have a second sister i don't know of?

Yes, she is also your daughter.

 

[Diconica]

So, no cheats. This game is wayyyy to grindy without them. Good to know, I'll skip it.

It's primarily grindy because he relied way to much on pure randomness.
That and most people don't realize how to make use of stuff like the taboo's to build up faster.
You can effectively win the game in 20 some days. That's not very much play time.
With the changes I made to how women are generated you can find better hires that make more sense more easily.
The contract system being revised now works for you not against you. It grows with you.
Also when hiring you can see the likes and dislikes of the girls you are hiring or any other time.
So it's easy to find girls that are easy to maintain and will like the job they do especially with the stat, skill and like/dislikes being tied together in this mod.

If you have to cheat beyond that you really aren't playing a game any more you may as well watch a slide show or watch porn.

BTW the taboo trick is to use the lower level to raise her back up then complete the quest the give you. Whatever loss you got when she decided she didn't like it or went to far in sluttiness is now added back on top of what you raised it up to.
Example: Mom decides she shouldn't show you herself naked.
So she drops down 10 sluttiness. You use flirt and raise her up to with flirst and so on then do her quest report in and she gains that what was taken off on top of what she currently is. So lets say she is at 20, drops to 10, you raise it up using flirt real fast and then do the cleaning and suddenly you are at 30. You can do that shit with each one of them.

 

[Elpescador]

It's primarily grindy because he relied way to much on pure randomness.
That and most people don't realize how to make use of stuff like the taboo's to build up faster.
You can effectively win the game in 20 some days. That's not very much play time.
With the changes I made to how women are generated you can find better hires that make more sense more easily.
The contract system being revised now works for you not against you. It grows with you.
Also when hiring you can see the likes and dislikes of the girls you are hiring or any other time.
So it's easy to find girls that are easy to maintain and will like the job they do especially with the stat, skill and like/dislikes being tied together in this mod.

If you have to cheat beyond that you really aren't playing a game any more you may as well watch a slide show or watch porn.

BTW the taboo trick is to use the lower level to raise her back up then complete the quest the give you. Whatever loss you got when she decided she didn't like it or went to far in sluttiness is now added back on top of what you raised it up to.
Example: Mom decides she shouldn't show you herself naked.
So she drops down 10 sluttiness. You use flirt and raise her up to with flirst and so on then do her quest report in and she gains that what was taken off on top of what she currently is. So lets say she is at 20, drops to 10, you raise it up using flirt real fast and then do the cleaning and suddenly you are at 30. You can do that shit with each one of them.

People play games in different ways. For instance I play Madden and "the Show" as a GM and almost never actually enter a game. I like to play this game for its body mod/ mind control content. I have zero interest in the business sim part. I prefer to dodge it all together.

 

[Diconica]

People play games in different ways. For instance I play Madden and "the Show" as a GM and almost never actually enter a game. I like to play this game for its body mod/ mind control content. I have zero interest in the business sim part. I prefer to dodge it all together.

With all the other games that you can do body mods and so on that have better graphics some of which are 3d and this is the one you pick.
If it wasn't for the total of what this game offers and the fact I can actually fix some of its issues I wouldn't play it at all.

 

[Sick&Alone]

Technically they could.
They could do the same thing I do and use

You must be registered to see the links

to see the differences in different versions and what the difference is with their mod installed and or the previous version with the mod installed. From that it becomes nothing more than using the tool to merge which ever direction they need to do.
Then they compare the new version to the base version and copy just those files out that are different.

The first thing they need to do before doing that though is. Go to every file in their mod and bug fix and change the line endings all to "\r\n" other wise every single file is going to show it is different. It's real easy to fix this issue using

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it can change that type of thing in every file in every directory and they can specify just to search rpy files.

The only real issue is when there are a lot of bugs on Vren's part like this last update. If they want to know where all those problems are they could download my mod compare it to the base using the winmerge mentioned above and thus find out where most those are. How they choose to deal with them is up to them but at least they wouldn't have to find them by playing it.

WOw! that's really good advice 4 anyone working on mods. (even 4 themselves)
Most mods I know of R specific to a given version ---& since most games R grindy anyway (on purpose--thanks 4 nothing devs!) "incompatible saves" & other crap often make versions w/o mods a necessity.

Plus I've seen stuff that's *SO* bad (illogical/"buggy"----although pretty sure bugs R much more organized!) that you have to give up & go back to a version that works!
*DEVS* should try using that! (maybe some do?)

 

[eldoen]

With all the other games that you can do body mods and so on that have better graphics some of which are 3d and this is the one you pick.
If it wasn't for the total of what this game offers and the fact I can actually fix some of its issues I wouldn't play it at all.

that is why I like the game, the source code is readily available. although I usually have to ask around after a release, or review other mods that fix issues. to decipher said code.

the other thing I find irritating, is he starts a refactor, and seems to be bound by the file, or appears to forget he has done it. and redefines it. think part of that is tooling, I haven't found a good setup that consistently works across py and rpy files so things like goto definition that works in a python editor doesn't always work,

something I rely on when I work a completely different part of technology for my day job.

 

[Sick&Alone]

That's disappointing, been my experience that when devs start missing releases the project has crested the hill toward abandonment. Granted this is free product and nobody really has a right to complain but I really hope this isn't the case.

ok Just 4 the Record, there *WAS* a 48. [check the changelog]

 

[Edwarf]

So, no cheats. This game is wayyyy to grindy without them. Good to know, I'll skip it.

Well, you have the console commands to do the trick.
The most tedious (or just fkin boring) task is research and develop of traits and serums, and that's solved via console as you can input the ammount of research progress you need to finish whatever the thing you need to be done, traits or serums.

Same goes for player energy/ clarity level, max level and skills.

For me, there are just 2 reasons to stay away from the base game: default lookings of main NPCs and having to press "RETURN" icon when moving between locations.

 

[Sick&Alone]

Here is link (new) to Diconica's mod.
It's now working!

https://f95zone.to/threads/lab-rats-2-mod-diconica.108097/

Already testing it myself (don't like the body changes sorry) & overall a vast improvement.
He (dev) really make a mess of things in 48; (FYI: 4 anyone who's never built anything, you *CANNOT* build anything good on a MESS! u must 1st clean up/organize/fix/etc for it to be a good foundation. Try it with legos sometime---messes won't support anything. )

Diconica I applaud you. (Dev should pay you & work off you base)

 

[Diconica]

ok Just 4 the Record, there *WAS* a 48. [check the changelog]

I think he was referring to the fact the mod hasn't got a 48 not the game.

 

[dg]

I have a question what version is the beta for?