Ren'Py Abandoned Lab Rats 2 [v0.51.1] [Vren]

[eldoen]

I think the current way to get money is too easy so I'll make it harder ...
Arf, customers whine, I'll make this easier ...

2 months lost, next try...

Still needs one more month at least to do a game balance review IMO. I can't at this point think of any mechanic that doesn't need a game balance review. and maybe even current story line reviews to drive those mechanics.

 

[Strec]

Still needs one more month at least to do a game balance review IMO. I can't at this point think of any mechanic that doesn't need a game balance review. and maybe even current story line reviews to drive those mechanics.

Balancing is one thing and for sure it's needed but only can be done when all mechanics are present.

Here it's replacing a mechanic because the result seems bad by another that, finally, will produce the same result after a nerf.

 

[DA22]

Balancing is one thing and for sure it's needed but only can be done when all mechanics are present.

Here it's replacing a mechanic because the result seems bad by another that, finally, will produce the same result after a nerf.

Yes and no for that first sentence. Yes it is by far wisest and most efficient to only do the balance passes when all mechanics are in game and are how you want them or in any other project for that matter when only comes online when finished.

Then again this is a game that is being released in updates, which also means that in principle every update should be playable and working as intended, so you cannot really wait with balancing to end, it should be playable now even if it can always happen one or two updates go wrong. Secondly and this is not meant to piss at the dev, but just what his stated intentions were with this game, it is quite debatable if the mechanics of this game will ever be finished as such since one of the intentions of this project was playing around with those and learning of that and dev still seems to be in that phase after years of releases.

So yeah, in principle you are right and that is the thing to do, but with a project like this it would mean the bug fixing and balancing in practice would never happen and the game would slowly but surely start to buckle under its own weight as amount of bugs and imbalances multiplies over time. So better do the balancing now, unless the dev is planning to completely change it again in two or three updates.

 

[ecksdude]

New version doesn't let me change locations? Seems totally broken, what gives?

 

[GolemFive]

This game is fantastic.
Thank you.

 

[eldoen]

New version doesn't let me change locations? Seems totally broken, what gives?

don't know, since I have vanilla versions since 44, and mods since same time period all the way to 48 and locations changes work in all versions up to 48,0 Care to clarify what version, and how you expect it to work, since it is different betwee mod and vanilla

 

[eldoen]

Balancing is one thing and for sure it's needed but only can be done when all mechanics are present.

Here it's replacing a mechanic because the result seems bad by another that, finally, will produce the same result after a nerf.

Don't know if you wait until the end, as you break the early part of the game.

Day 0 Goals, the way the balance in the game is currently you would never ever get that goal of spread your seed, and would never advance you sex skills, so why is it even offered as a goal on Day 0?? this snowballs into one of the more important Currencies early game, and that is Clarity. you can waste several game days cycling thru goals. to get to the one or 2 that are feasible early game to advance Clarity production. Especially as game time sensitive early game is to keep the business going,

I would even counter that the fresh new blood (if it isn't automatically achieved with Steph) is becoming a goal that should't be offered as a first goal.

Creating Contracts that can't be achieved no matter here you are in the game,

These are the game balance issues (bugs?)you resolve as the game is in development, precisely because as guides you as a new mechanic is added. We had already been complaining how grindy the game was becoming in early game, before 47, mostly because those systems mechanics where getting out of sync, Clarity was devaluing, Goals out of line to what is achieveable during game play etc. etc.

Not talking a full on final game balance. But first 6 months of the game mechanics should be far enough along, to do a game balance to figure out where the game starts to break down in mid and late game, (late game will always break down in an open ended game IMO, but try to make it playable as long as possible.)

 

[Strec]

Can someone really explain me what is shocking in the fact that you can't answer to contracts in the early beginning of the game?

You start an industrial work and would since start be able to be the king of the world? I know it's not IRL but a game but there are limits and a minimum of "realism" (I don't like to use this word for games). In any case you have alway the solution to cheat, with console, with mods, ...

Continuing this way whynot consider you were able to answer contracts before creating you enterprise, or even were able to answer contracts before launching the game and in this case just start with 1 billion dollars.

No, really, people just want image-clickers and fucking games without any gameplay or effort.

 

[DA22]

Can someone really explain me what is shocking in the fact that you can't answer to contracts in the early beginning of the game?

You start an industrial work and would since start be able to be the king of the world? I know it's not IRL but a game but there are limits and a minimum of "realism" (I don't like to use this word for games). In any case you have alway the solution to cheat, with console, with mods, ...

Continuing this way whynot consider you were able to answer contracts before creating you enterprise, or even were able to answer contracts before launching the game and in this case just start with 1 billion dollars.

No, really, people just want image-clickers and fucking games without any gameplay.

There is a difference between being unable to just survive game at start if get the wrong starting position with contracts and such since you do need them and right sex opinions on girls to progress, or are going to be in great trouble just surviving without really progressing for 4 months in game and being King of the World day one.

BOTH are bad game design though and as soon as we know how to pass it or beat it, leads just to save scumming and restarting until we get a favorable start position, whether we are talking an adult game, massive MMO, management game or a RPG. Which for some is already with this version and for most will be two versions from now max, artificially enhanced difficulty and unfair RNG (which is something else as harsh RNG) has never made a game more fun or difficult in the end whenknow the mechanic to beat the game especially if have to restart every new update.

There is a balance between payout and time investment that should work for most people to progress in a game, you should not be either very lucky or have every information possible about the game at your fingertips to just get through the start of a game ........ Git Gud always sounds nice, but if someone needs a walkthrough or even worse a guide or mod or great luck (where someone does not know why he even survived if were lucky) just to be able to survive start of the game, something is wrong. People have to be able to understand why they failed if did and how they can change that in a second run, without being shafted by bad RNG even if play perfect.

Now I personally think dev would be better of to develop more story and incentive with the girls to progress and base mechanics more of that as just entering mechanics to make it more difficult, but it is his project and he can do it as he wants to even if there are reasons why in any project even outside of software you design the mechanics around the goal and not other way around. . Things like suspicion should not even enter game first three months in game time, until the company has sold quite a bit of serums for example and also has positive payoffs with certain new characters possible as outcomes and not only negative ones and should not be implemented until the positives are in as well.

 

[Strec]

I agree with the fact the game would permit a more linear progression and that it is not the case for now.

But the method choosen don't seems the good one for me, nerfing a feature is rarely the solution. The previous version introduced the suspicion, the last one pratically remove the suspicion, ...

There are a lot of bad choices done (and I'm sure the fact to be forced to deliver something each month is the reason) but the worst is lack of documentation and information.

For example there were no precise information on the importance of the marketting service in 0.47, we switch from something with almost no interest to something that become mandatory without really information on this change so, evidently players continuing their gameplay like before were fucked.

Second, introducing contracts at start made everybody running on that and whinning. Such a feature would have been introduced far later in the game when player have a working industry with low gain and begin to search for new way to make money.

Upping a little the prices of the basic medical serums and having Alexia encounter on very firsts days was enough to solve the problem of the undoable start.

 

[Evangelion-01]

No, really, people just want image-clickers and fucking games without any gameplay or effort.

Those people either should get of the comp and read a book or watch a show... or if they are bored internet addicts play a VN though.

There is actually quiet a market for games with gameplay, but since those require both intution, skill and risk takeing most Devs seem to go with the Basics (mostly VN style).

 

[dalzomo]

There is a difference between a contract that is difficult for a beginning player and one that is literally impossible to fulfil because there is no combination of traits that qualify, like a serum with sexual attributes but 0 attention. The latter is the situation we're attempting to get rectified

 

[TheAtheistGamer]

So here's a question: When are we able to manipulate someone age and mentality? Like, the mass majority of people you hire is around their 30's or 40's but rarely in their 20's. I would like to make my mother "younger" and feel less old. Or give my sister a cougar personality. You'd think by now, something like this would be a thing in this game but it's not. I mean, if you think about it, it is a great way to affect fertility without going the extra mile of giving the fertile drugs because they will be naturally fertile. Or infertile if you make the older.

 

[Strec]

There is a difference between a contract that is difficult for a beginning player and one that is literally impossible to fulfil because there is no combination of traits that qualify, like a serum with sexual attributes but 0 attention. The latter is the situation we're attempting to get rectified

Yes, some are impossible to fulfil at start, and as I said contracts feature may not be present at all, at start, like you can't fuck you mother, at start, like you can't give your sister a 5 turns serum, at start, .......

It would be unlocked with a policy, like many things in the game.

 

[dalzomo]

Yes, some are impossible to fulfil at start, and as I said contracts feature may not be present at all, at start, like you can't fuck you mother, at start, like you can't give your sister a 5 turns serum, at start, .......

It would be unlocked with a policy, like many things in the game.

No, you're not getting it and I'm beginning to suspect you're being intentionally obtuse. We're not whingeing that it's "too hard" at the start. I personally feel the game is quite easy, even the clarity mechanic. But by current game mechanics, which you can see by examining the code like we have, contracts are generating that are impossible - not "hard" - they're completely undoable no matter what level of research and production you have. That needs to be fixed

 

[ecksdude]

So I download the game, no mods added at all, start it up per normal, skip the intro. Very first thing I'm supposed to go to the lobby in the office.

I click on the lobby, it changes color, but doesn't take me there. Same thing with every other location on the "map". I can't leave the initial MC bedroom.

i.e. nothing works?

Am I the only one with this issue?

 

[dalzomo]

So I download the game, no mods added at all, start it up per normal, skip the intro. Very first thing I'm supposed to go to the lobby in the office.

I click on the lobby, it changes color, but doesn't take me there. Same thing with every other location on the "map". I can't leave the initial MC bedroom.

i.e. nothing works?

Am I the only one with this issue?

It doesn't work like in the mod. You have to choose the location then click the Return button at the bottom of the screen

 

[gregers]

So I download the game, no mods added at all, start it up per normal, skip the intro. Very first thing I'm supposed to go to the lobby in the office.

I click on the lobby, it changes color, but doesn't take me there. Same thing with every other location on the "map". I can't leave the initial MC bedroom.

i.e. nothing works?

Am I the only one with this issue?

After selecting the location, click on the big fat Return button in the middle of the screen.

 

[Strec]

No, you're not getting it and I'm beginning to suspect you're being intentionally obtuse. We're not whingeing that it's "too hard" at the start. I personally feel the game is quite easy, even the clarity mechanic. But by current game mechanics, which you can see by examining the code like we have, contracts are generating that are impossible - not "hard" - they're completely undoable no matter what level of research and production you have. That needs to be fixed

Ok, if that's the case I'm false and it must be fixed, sorry.

I was sure that there are things (did not remember if this is policies or traits) permitting to lower the suspiscion level of a design but I'll stop this while I'll verify.

 

[eldoen]

Yes, some are impossible to fulfil at start, and as I said contracts feature may not be present at all, at start, like you can't fuck you mother, at start, like you can't give your sister a 5 turns serum, at start, .......

let's agree that most of us have played the game long enough and know that we have to waste several game days to get achievable goals at the beginning of the game, and cycle that at least for the first 2 weeks to 1 month of in game play.

so let's roll with your statement. it is not achievable at the beginning of the game, but it is also not a task(goal) at the beginning of the game. and is achievable through completing smaller talks. so let's give a task to progress to that.

Spread your seed, Boom that is achievable at the beginning of the game. it is a small task to achieve.
Shiver?
Ahego?

The point is there are goals(tasks) available that advance the MC that should be offered first.

I can say, I have gone 8 game days, before getting one of those goals, then 10 additional game days to advance to second

And for documentation will agree, goals are not explained,