VN Ren'Py Last Human [v0.7] [N2TheFire]

[juan palote]

I was enjoying this one right up until the Nia story arc, which I actively and strongly dislike. I understand conflict and tension are needed in a story, but the MC, Nia, and Lexi are all making the worst possible decisions, and taking the story in a direction I don't want to read.

Nia is talking about forcing the MC to have sex, which is rape. She is also a literal terrorist, almost got one of his lovers killed, and is actively threatening the life of his first lover. If the MC continues just going along with this plan (and Lexi's urging and 'permission') like he's indicated he's going to so far, then it represents a major and disappointing drop in writing quality, as well as the use of a tired and extremely divisive trope. I'm already considering dropping the game and my paid support completely despite the other aspects of both LH and Serenity that I like, purely over this storyline. I don't want to read a story about a spineless pushover who lets a literal terrorist rape him.

The fact that it's the cliffhanger to end Episode 2 means we will have to wait for a resolution to this storyline for many months (i.e. all of Serenity Ch2 E3's dev time plus all of Last Human E3's dev time). So we have to sit and fester with this shitty storyline for all that time. Bad cliffhanger, bad player experience.

Writers need to remember: the players don't know what's coming like you do. So when you have a cliffhanger like this, players will evaluate it based purely on what has been shown and what the cliffhanger is. We cannot evaluate it based on what'll happen in the future, because we don't know what that will be. So a cliffhanger that leaves people unhappy and frustrated stands as the (current) ending of the game right up until the next release, and a bad one can badly harm a game.

I have a feeling the MC will end up subduing Nia to his will

 

[Netgear]

But, even that is very quick and simple. You start a new game (it is still the same story no matter what anyway). Name your MC, change the word for pet (or keep it) then the option to jump to episode 2 comes up. Bam, game is back to normal. Maybe I'm missing something but I thought adding that choice in there would be helpful.

thanks for the info.

 

[N2TheFire]

I was enjoying this one right up until the Nia story arc, which I actively and strongly dislike. I understand conflict and tension are needed in a story, but the MC, Nia, and Lexi are all making the worst possible decisions, and taking the story in a direction I don't want to read.

Nia is talking about forcing the MC to have sex, which is rape. She is also a literal terrorist, almost got one of his lovers killed, and is actively threatening the life of his first lover. If the MC continues just going along with this plan (and Lexi's urging and 'permission') like he's indicated he's going to so far, then it represents a major and disappointing drop in writing quality, as well as the use of a tired and extremely divisive trope. I'm already considering dropping the game and my paid support completely despite the other aspects of both LH and Serenity that I like, purely over this storyline. I don't want to read a story about a spineless pushover who lets a literal terrorist rape him.

The fact that it's the cliffhanger to end Episode 2 means we will have to wait for a resolution to this storyline for many months (i.e. all of Serenity Ch2 E3's dev time plus all of Last Human E3's dev time). So we have to sit and fester with this shitty storyline for all that time. Bad cliffhanger, bad player experience.

Writers need to remember: the players don't know what's coming like you do. So when you have a cliffhanger like this, players will evaluate it based purely on what has been shown and what the cliffhanger is. We cannot evaluate it based on what'll happen in the future, because we don't know what that will be. So a cliffhanger that leaves people unhappy and frustrated stands as the (current) ending of the game right up until the next release, and a bad one can badly harm a game.

I have to set you straight because everything you said starting at the word "rape" was very very VERY wrong. And honestly, I'm kinda pissed now. I have a TON of respect for real, honest, constructive criticism - I use it all the time. What you're doing here is not criticism at all... you're making an assumption. By attaching the word "rape" in your post, you're basically drawing attention to that and others will make assumptions based on your comments. It is unfair to me and to other players who might actually miss the game because they've had some experience in their life and they want to avoid rape. Rape is something I feel very strongly about because it is something that unfortunately has touched my family.

Now... there will NEVER BE any rape in my game. You mentioning that (even in spoilers) is low... it sucks big time because others get the wrong impression. I un-spoilered that part of your post in this quote because nothing you said is in my game to spoil. There was a scene in Serenity where people felt it was 'rapey'. I didn't see it that way because when I wrote it, I thought of it in a more playful way. But because of my feelings on that subject and how I saw it might make others feel, I took that very seriously and made changes to address it. I spent hours... pulled the game and rebuilt it that night, reuploaded, and released again.

Next thing I want to say about this... I have people critique me saying everything dramatic is resolved way too fast or there isn't enough drama. Then when I actually add some drama, other people chime in and overreact and assume what is going to happen. All I can say to that is this: I am writing a story here. I can only write so much at a time before development time takes way too long. When it comes to my work, never ever assume ANYthing. I don't follow any other recipe for making a VN. And there are times when things will happen completely opposite what you expect. Think about that before you make assumptions about my work. Give the story some time to flesh out. Its only 2 episodes in.

The MC is NOT spineless. I'll accept that he is still a little passive. Spineless? No. He's the last human in existence. He's in a completely new world. Everything is new to him. But he is slowly changing in case you haven't paid attention. And if you waited until episode 3, you'd realize how wrong you were. Did you notice how protective he was with Lexi when dealing with Blarg?

All I'm saying is the same exact thing I said a couple of years ago when I was working on the first Serenity... Let the story flesh out. But never ever make assumptions because like I've already said - I don't write like other people. I'm not pro, but I don't think like other devs when I write. I know what I want to have happen and I think if you just held on another episode or so, you would probably actually love how it turns out.

Sorry... you caught me in a moment and you said a trigger word for me. I don't mean to go off on you and I offer peace. But do not bring that word up about my game again... please. Thanks

 

[Tiur]

I know what I want to have happen and I think if you just held on another episode or so, you would probably actually love how it turns out.

Sorry... you caught me in a moment and you said a trigger word for me. I don't mean to go off on you and I offer peace. But do not bring that word up about my game again... please. Thanks

See, this is exactly what I'm saying in my last paragraph. You know what you want to have happen. We do not, and we can only currently evaluate the game as it currently exists, and that'll continue to be the case for several months because of your alternating development process (which I've never criticized before).

I said exactly what I said for a reason. I said Nia was talking about it. And she is. That's not a question. She is threatening violence and murder to try to force the MC to give her a child 'the natural way'. I understand you don't see it that way, but for me, as someone who doesn't know where the story is going next, it's awfully hard not to. Doing something under threat of death, or under threat of the death of a loved one, is not consent.

 

[Tiur]

I had a couple other thoughts related to Nia that aren't connected to my primary concern.

Nia's ability to listen in on discussions that as far as I recall took place in person, and not over a communications device, is incredibly powerful surveillance. On top of that, her remote transference tech is so astonishingly powerful that it could replace all other weaponry in the game universe. Enemy ship approaching? Remote transfer their pilots into space. Case closed. I assume that the reason these aren't the dominant forms of technology yet are just that Nia's designed them herself, but now that they are known to exist, they're pretty massive paradigm shifts in terms of technological superiority.

 

[N2TheFire]

See, this is exactly what I'm saying in my last paragraph. You know what you want to have happen. We do not, and we can only currently evaluate the game as it currently exists, and that'll continue to be the case for several months because of your alternating development process (which I've never criticized before).

I said exactly what I said for a reason. I said Nia was talking about it. And she is. That's not a question. She is threatening violence and murder to try to force the MC to give her a child 'the natural way'. I understand you don't see it that way, but for me, as someone who doesn't know where the story is going next, it's awfully hard not to. Doing something under threat of death, or under threat of the death of a loved one, is not consent.

See, this is exactly one of the reasons I almost stopped bothering with F95 when I started. People try to fill in between the lines with the worst things they can imagine. And no matter what you do or say to try to defend yourself, the dev comes off being wrong. I can't please everyone, I know this, you know this. This release has already been downloaded almost 1000 times and you're the first person to bring this up. Not one other person brought it up. So with that said... If you're not happy with it so far, okay. Fine. I am okay with that. I am secure and confident in what I am writing. I'm not going to change your mind (and I honestly don't have the energy to try) - so let's drop it.

I had a couple other thoughts related to Nia that aren't connected to my primary concern.

Nia's ability to listen in on discussions that as far as I recall took place in person, and not over a communications device, is incredibly powerful surveillance. On top of that, her remote transference tech is so astonishingly powerful that it could replace all other weaponry in the game universe. Enemy ship approaching? Remote transfer their pilots into space. Case closed. I assume that the reason these aren't the dominant forms of technology yet are just that Nia's designed them herself, but now that they are known to exist, they're pretty massive paradigm shifts in terms of technological superiority.

I... meh, I just can't anymore tonight. Maybe I shouldn't have even replied. It was a shitty day already I probably shouldn't go any further with this. Anyway... peace man.

 

[Twistty]

Tiur
I respect your comments - but strongly disagree - fully and completely.
N2TheFire - Is one of - What I consider a "true love" dev.
The roads (or in this case, space ways) are not necessary straight ones, and all paths are yet to be explored.
It is mostly a feeling on intent that matters to me - and am sure others will agree as well.
Sit back - enjoy the story in the incomplete form, as it is now - and form your opinion once it is in it's completed form.

Till then take 2 of these.


Ps. N2TheFire - Hope tomorrow is a better day for you.
They cannot all be like this!

 

[Tiur]

It's a discussion site, to discuss the games. I'm discussing the game with what I see as a criticism of the game as it currently exists. I'm familiar with N2's writing style so far, which is why this came as such a stark surprise to me. If he doesn't want to engage in that discussion, that's fine, but I'm never going to apologize for stating my mind about the game as it currently exists. That I'm the first person to say it does not mean I'm the first person to have thought it.

If that's the final word, so be it. We'll see how things go in the future, but it's sure left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[TigerWolfe]

There are way more of us with little to no issues N2TheFire, don't let the negativity get to ya. Appreciate what you've made here and looking forward to more of this and Serenity.

 

[Twistty]

It's a discussion site, to discuss the games. I'm discussing the game with what I see as a criticism of the game as it currently exists. I'm familiar with N2's writing style so far, which is why this came as such a stark surprise to me. If he doesn't want to engage in that discussion, that's fine, but I'm never going to apologize for stating my mind about the game as it currently exists. That I'm the first person to say it does not mean I'm the first person to have thought it.

If that's the final word, so be it. We'll see how things go in the future, but it's sure left a bad taste in my mouth.

Maybe this whole discussion needs a cleaning?

 

[Tiur]

Maybe this whole discussion needs a cleaning?

Are you trying to say that I should have kept my mouth shut when I was disappointed by something? Nothing negative should ever be allowed to be said about a game? I'm confused by this comment.

 

[Twistty]

Are you trying to say that I should have kept my mouth shut when I was disappointed by something? Nothing negative should ever be allowed to be said about a game? I'm confused by this comment.

Stop sounding like a troll - and people won't look at you as one!

 

[Tiur]

Stop sounding like a troll - and people won't look as you as one!

What did I say that sounded like a troll? I even said I was enjoying the game right up until I wasn't. Disappointed != troll.

N2 can confirm that I've been a paying subscriber to him for many months now (accidentally on both Patreon and SubStar, as it turns out) under this same name.

 

[N2TheFire]

Maybe this whole discussion needs a cleaning?

Its okay. He's right after all... it is a discussion forum.

But I'll leave it with this... Yes, it is a discussion and you're allowed to type out your "criticisms". But I'm a dev that will defend himself against certain criticisms... especially when you throw a word like 'rape' around. I admit I kinda went off and I apologize for my part in it. But there are two sides to judging a book before its complete... one, it isn't complete and you're assuming. Or 2, it is complete, and you're giving an overall opinion. If you're going to assume, then be fair in your comments. Think about other people who will read that and be considerate. That's all I'm saying.

If someone is painting your house and you decide to check their work when they are 1/4 complete... they have stuff still taped off, things look jagged and rough... you wouldn't say "damn man, this looks like shit! Just stop and I'll hire someone else!". Because once they peel off the tape, all the lines will be straight and everything will look great. Not saying LH is great, it might be to some people, I hope it will be... but I think it will be pretty good if you just sit back and let me get more of it done.

 

[N2TheFire]

I'm familiar with N2's writing style so far, which is why this came as such a stark surprise to me.

Right from your own mouth my friend. Trust in me, you have this far. So don't turn on me so quickly. Okay?

 

[Tiur]

If someone is painting your house and you decide to check their work when they are 1/4 complete... they have stuff still taped off, things look jagged and rough... you wouldn't say "damn man, this looks like shit! Just stop and I'll hire someone else!".

I do apologize if what I said came off as me stating what would happen. I did not mean it that way, though I still stand by how the scene felt for me to play. I get extremely uncomfortable at any suggestion that I, or a character I am playing, will be forced into a non-consensual sex act, and the scene in question very definitely triggered that response from me.

I do think it is reasonable to question a painter if their work is 1/4 complete, but one section of the white wall they're painting is suddenly painted with a big brown zig-zag instead.

 

[N2TheFire]

I do apologize if what I said came off as me stating what would happen. I did not mean it that way, though I still stand by how the scene felt for me to play. I get extremely uncomfortable at any suggestion that I, or a character I am playing, will be forced into a non-consensual sex act, and the scene in question very definitely triggered that response from me.

I do think it is reasonable to question a painter if their work is 1/4 complete, but one section of the white wall they're painting is suddenly painted with a big brown zig-zag instead.

If he painted a brown zig-zag on it, I'd probably check if he was drinking
And that is a whole other issue (I mean, it's not like I painted a brown zig-zag on the DART or the Aurora) lol

 

[jayeddie1008]

I like the game so far. One this, Dev really needs to the take Sylphine of his "friends" game list. The game is Abandoned and that Dev is a bonified milker. You don't want to be assoicated with con-artist like that.

 

[juan palote]

I loved the update, the only part that confused me and i didnt remember is the 6 "pet" limit and i wonder how that will work with the rest of the characters (like chef and assistant) but i am sure its something that will be developed in the future

Keep up the good work Dev

 

[jflem0990]

I loved the update, the only part that confused me and i didnt remember is the 6 "pet" limit and i wonder how that will work with the rest of the characters (like chef and assistant) but i am sure its something that will be developed in the future

Keep up the good work Dev

Yea i dont remember that 6 "pet" limit either... I am going to replay all and see if it is stated in the first chapter. I do love Boob hugs