- Feb 22, 2020
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- Thread starter Impious Monk
- Start date
- Oct 14, 2021
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It's just a one-line dialogue error for those not on Jamie's path. It doesn't actually impact what happens. I'll fix it for Episode Three. Otherwise I'd have to reupload both PC and Mac builds for all ten mirrors.
- Feb 22, 2020
- 31
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Ohh ok, I thought it was something bigger my bad. By the way the game is AWESOME, the story, the characters, everything is very cool, excellent work Mr.Impious
- Jun 17, 2019
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Finally.... Spanish translation updated / Traducción al español actualizada - Episode Two
- in the Ep1 recap, there's a picture of the MC talking about family during his lunch with Aghavni even if you didn't see that scene in your playthrough
- if the MC stays silent during Clay's interview, he doesn't talk about the victim's boyfriend at all. Yet Aghavni starts her second visit precisely by asking him about the description he gave
I also find it jarring that Emmeline's path is totally closed just because you didn't say hi to her the first time you saw her, no matter how many things you can share with her, and learn from her too, later on. It's not that strange for someone to not feel attracted to someone else at first sight but then find some common ground and start seeing things differently once you know the actual person (or character, in this case). Plus she was totally hot for him so why would she just shut off all her options with him for that meaningless first contact? I get she felt dejected but why wouldn't she take the miraculous chance of having him visit her to try her luck again in a more proper fashion? Now she can actually make him fall for her by being herself, not just by catching a stranger's attention with her looks. Especially when they now have an actual reason to get to know each other and can build a proper relationship, it just feels weird to not have an option for the MC to override that first uninformed choice -even from a pure gaming perspective, as this is exactly one of the things most players usually doesn't like: an apparently meaningless choice at the very beginning closing a whole path with someone. The MC not liking kids, though, I can get why this is a reason to close her path.
Noticed a couple of extra 'minor' bugs:
- in the Ep1 recap, there's a picture of the MC talking about family during his lunch with Aghavni even if you didn't see that scene in your playthrough
- if the MC stays silent during Clay's interview, he doesn't talk about the victim's boyfriend at all. Yet Aghavni starts her second visit precisely by asking him about the description he gave
I also find it jarring that Emmeline's path is totally closed just because you didn't say hi to her the first time you saw her, no matter how many things you can share with her, and learn from her too, later on. It's not that strange for someone to not feel attracted to someone else at first sight but then find some common ground and start seeing things differently once you know the actual person (or character, in this case). Plus she was totally hot for him so why would she just shut off all her options with him for that meaningless first contact? I get she felt dejected but why wouldn't she take the miraculous chance of having him visit her to try her luck again in a more proper fashion? Now she can actually make him fall for her by being herself, not just by catching a stranger's attention with her looks. Especially when they now have an actual reason to get to know each other and can build a proper relationship, it just feels weird to not have an option for the MC to override that first uninformed choice -even from a pure gaming perspective, as this is exactly one of the things most players usually doesn't like: an apparently meaningless choice at the very beginning closing a whole path with someone. The MC not liking kids, though, I can get why this is a reason to close her path.
- Sep 3, 2020
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I agree with you on that point
I think it makes more sense from a story point of view for these to be the choices to get on her route
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and for the record, I do want kids just not with her
- Jun 17, 2019
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Yeah, I think not choosing at least one of those, combined with that first choice, would be a fairer way of closing her path. You didn't like her at first glance, and then after talking a couple of times you didn't feel attracted enough to open yourself up a bit and pursue her.
- Oct 14, 2021
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moskyx I've responded to this suggestion in thread before, but I'll explain in more detail why I've created this early choice.
In my experience, if a woman tries to flirt with a man, and the man rudely blows her off, most women's response will be to lose interest in the man. Same goes for men: I've tried flirting with women who have rudely blown me off and I lost interest in them. (That's the healthy response, anyway, in my opinion. Not every woman would respond that way, but Emmeline would.)
From a story perspective, that choice isn't about the player's interest in Emmeline--it's about Emmeline's interest in the MC. You don't get to say, "At first I didn't like her looks or the fact the fact that she was flirting with me so I blew her off, but now I decided I was wrong so I'll have a go at it after all." By blowing her off she loses interest in you. It's a good lesson for life. Is it possible for two people to overcome a rocky start and find love in the long run? Sure, but maybe let's see where the story is going before anybody declares that's what should happen here. So far, they've only hung out a few times.
From a gaming perspective, there are only two reasons to blow off Emmeline. First, some players are replaying because they want to unlock Malena's FWB path. This is essentially an optional, bonus path for those players that already know they aren't pursuing Emmeline. Second, some players playing for the first time will immediately see Emmeline's model and decide they are not interested in her. For these players, it's nice to be able to have a very early choice that prevents later awkwardness of having to let her down after she really gets invested in you. And a player who has already made that choice doesn't need the options to flirt with her later. I could code in options and paths for what happens when someone who blew off Emmeline tries to flirt later on, but it's already incredibly difficult to keep track of the branching I have, so why would I waste time on some nuanced little path that almost no one taking the story seriously is going to follow?
I'm not really sure what you're suggesting. Take away the player's choice in the beginning--MC must say hello to her? Or are you suggesting that I take away Emmeline's choice so that even if MC was rude, Emmeline should still be attracted to him? The first option hurts the game by removing player choice, the second hurts the story by damaging Emmeline's character.
Thank you for the translation and catching the bugs. They will be fixed in the next update.
In my experience, if a woman tries to flirt with a man, and the man rudely blows her off, most women's response will be to lose interest in the man. Same goes for men: I've tried flirting with women who have rudely blown me off and I lost interest in them. (That's the healthy response, anyway, in my opinion. Not every woman would respond that way, but Emmeline would.)
From a story perspective, that choice isn't about the player's interest in Emmeline--it's about Emmeline's interest in the MC. You don't get to say, "At first I didn't like her looks or the fact the fact that she was flirting with me so I blew her off, but now I decided I was wrong so I'll have a go at it after all." By blowing her off she loses interest in you. It's a good lesson for life. Is it possible for two people to overcome a rocky start and find love in the long run? Sure, but maybe let's see where the story is going before anybody declares that's what should happen here. So far, they've only hung out a few times.
From a gaming perspective, there are only two reasons to blow off Emmeline. First, some players are replaying because they want to unlock Malena's FWB path. This is essentially an optional, bonus path for those players that already know they aren't pursuing Emmeline. Second, some players playing for the first time will immediately see Emmeline's model and decide they are not interested in her. For these players, it's nice to be able to have a very early choice that prevents later awkwardness of having to let her down after she really gets invested in you. And a player who has already made that choice doesn't need the options to flirt with her later. I could code in options and paths for what happens when someone who blew off Emmeline tries to flirt later on, but it's already incredibly difficult to keep track of the branching I have, so why would I waste time on some nuanced little path that almost no one taking the story seriously is going to follow?
I'm not really sure what you're suggesting. Take away the player's choice in the beginning--MC must say hello to her? Or are you suggesting that I take away Emmeline's choice so that even if MC was rude, Emmeline should still be attracted to him? The first option hurts the game by removing player choice, the second hurts the story by damaging Emmeline's character.
Thank you for the translation and catching the bugs. They will be fixed in the next update.
True story: I met a woman at the bar and we really hit off. I accompanied her back to her apartment and we made out. When she wanted more, I begged off because I had to work early in the morning (and it was 2am) and I was drunk enough that I didn’t think my performance would be up to par. When I tried to go out with her afterward, she tried to set me up with her gay friend, and refused to believe I was straight. In her mind, no hetero man would have turned down having sex with her, and my denial of being gay was just evidence of my unwillingness to come out.
Lesson learned: women don’t react well when you spurn their advances.
In your experience, what's the response from most men when they've gotten past the flirting, they think everything's going okay and then they get broadsided sitting on a park bench with flowers? Do most men contrive a reason to have every day contact with the woman and work closely together on something? Is that a healthy response in your opinion?
Not to say that no man would respond that way. There's a...choice there...wouldn't you say?
- Oct 14, 2021
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You'd be better off making your point directly instead of trying to get me to read between the lines, because I really don't understand the point you're making.In your experience, what's the response from most men when they've gotten past the flirting, they think everything's going okay and then they get broadsided sitting on a park bench with flowers? Do most men contrive a reason to have every day contact with the woman and work closely together on something? Is that a healthy response in your opinion?
Not to say that no man would respond that way. There's a...choice there...wouldn't you say?
For a developer/writer, how many choices to include is a balancing act. Just because I can include a choice doesn't mean I will or that I should. One factor I'll consider is whether each choice leads to an interesting story path. In the case of the choice to say hello to Emmeline, including that choice makes the game better because whichever choice is made leads to a viable path for the story to progress. As to your proposed choice that MC be allowed to not get involved in the investigation, that choice would literally end the story. I would have to show a Game Over screen. I have no story for these characters if Rockford does not get involved in the investigation, and creating one would literally require making a second game.
Also, I suspect there are few people who agree with you that MC got involved with the investigation because he wanted to be closer to Aghavni. My belief is that he got involved because he wanted to solve the mystery of his missing father.
- Jun 17, 2019
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Well, then we have a very different definition of what being rude is. Not greeting a stranger who stops and stares at you on the street while you are minding your own business with some friend, I don't think it's rude. It's probably the smart thing to do, actually, because she looked like a total creep. I do understand she can feel dejected and rejected by that reaction, but it was her the one who first thought the MC is hot, and I can't really see how this attraction can disappear because the guy didn't react to her the way she hoped in that weird, forced first encounter. Especially when then life makes them get together in a meaningful way (and I'm not talking about the rape attempt, but the investigation). We visit her at home, acting as nice as we actually are, visit her at work, and walk her home while having a nice chat. All those occasions are more than enough to let her know how we actually are, and maybe even to bring up that first encounter to let us explain our reasons for not greeting her back then, if the player has changed his mind about her after actually meeting her.
So I do think we all should have the option to flirt with her and, if we didn't say hello to her, and then we didn't tell her our intimate story in the classroom, she could politely evade our attempts and let us know she's not really interested because she feels we are not that interested either, or because she feels we are not being totally open and honest. And this would be OK because it's true that we didn't act properly around her. Players not interested in her will surely choose not to flirt anyway, but those who made a blind bad choice should be given an in-game reason that explains why they can't pursue her anymore. The same way that if we don't like kids, we can understand this is a very important thing for her and she just lose all interest in us, I don't think we can understand at this point why not greeting her the first time we saw her makes us 'not interested in her' (as she points out to her friends at the bar), when we have 'arbitrarily' been stripped off of the 'flirt' option to show we are now interested. It's frustrating. If I can stay as cold and professional as a man could be around Aghavni and yet have the option to compliment her ass, I don't get why I can't change my mind about Emmeline and let her know about that, even if she still won't be impressed anyway.
But it's OK, if she's so 'special', if she just closes any option with everyone who doesn't fall immediately in love with her at first sight, well, she's your character and your creative choice. In the end, we are operating with the limited info you give us in-game and our own backgrounds and expectations. So maybe it's just that I don't understand her yet and everything will make sense later on. But, as I said, blocking a whole path with a potentially interesting character in literally the first choice of the game (she being the second woman who's kind of introduced to us) doesn't feel right, because at that point the choice itself doesn't seem that meaningful either plot-wise or gaming-wise.
Like Monk said, the biggest problem is the branching.
It requires extra renders, extra script and texts and over the time a lot of work to keep the story reasonable in all paths.
It requires extra renders, extra script and texts and over the time a lot of work to keep the story reasonable in all paths.
- Jun 17, 2019
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But I'm not asking for a branch, just for a brief sub-scene during the 'walk her home' scene in which the game's code tracks if you didn't say hello and you didn't open up to her in the classroom. If you didn't do any of those, you can't even flirt (you indeed chose to keep her at arm's length -and that's the choice that I'd actually choose to close her path). If you did just one, you can flirt but she will shut you down because a) she doesn't feel you're actually interested in her (if you didn't react the first time you saw her), or b) she feels you are just being polite but not willing to share a real bond with her (if you did salute her but then chose to keep her at arm's length).
This would mean checking two already created flags, writing maybe 5 lines ('please stop this, MC, I see what you're trying to do but I don't think it will work out because -a- or -b-', 'oh, I see, please excuse me if I'm making you uncomfortable, I hope we could still be friends', 'Sure, and I'd love to, just don't push it') and creating maybe 3 extra renders with facial expressions that match the convo. Everything else can just stay as it is: if you didn't salute her, she can act the same way as she currently acts up to that walk. And OK, maybe it won't hurt writing an extra line the next time she calls you to reinforce the idea that you're going to be just friends and there's no hard feelings. That would be all, really.
Basically, my biggest grip is that now it's the dev who 'tells' you that you can't pursue her anymore by making the 'flirt' option inactive but doesn't explain why, while for immersion's sake I'd prefer the character to let me know what I did wrong and why I won't be able to conquer her. And, for that explanation to make a bit more sense, I personally think that the key choice should be the classroom one.
- Jul 10, 2017
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My humble opinion as a player is that choosing to intervene in the rape attempt means
MC is invested in her. I remember the early game was the lawyer friend talking about
a cute smalls public deffender and I assumed he was talking about Eme.
On that note, not seying hello to the gal you are talking about is rude.
That line of thinking made sense that she would look for MC and he would reciprovate.
Anyone in law enforcement or public employ should have a propper decorum.
Now, it seems she was a random girl watching two half naked men playing basketball
on a public court. As such, the greting of her before the rape attempt is a player choice
to go after someone, in the sense of us GETTING OUR FIRST MEANINGFUL CHOICE TO
PURSUE A RELATIONSHIP THAT MC WOULD NOT BLOW OFF.
REading this fiasco of players acting all high and mighy about a cutsy victim of violence
and MC being himself victim of same perpetrators of violence, that is a story they both share.
MC then walks off his stabbing, literally brushes it off like nothing and the whole fact he and this girl have been at least bullied and at most threateend and attempted rape/murder against them
by a big number of thugs, on the street, akin to a public basketball court, that is a most strongest of bonds IRL ... alas this game is painting MC a sociopath with no feelings and no decorum,
has no morals and literally thinks of some story from his childhood to break the ice,
when he shared a real story with this hottie. The story needs the prosecutor MC be a professional
and actually do his damn job, blowing off his friends and even the wife of a friend/someone he knows by name, that is outta character for any law enforcement, lawyer, public officer anywhere.
is the way to get close really fast. Like all of us know, if we pursue someone to long with little
reciprocacy, we should have stoped long ago, also if we do not give the light of day to the hottie
that puRSues us, she is free to keep at it, because societal norms tell us IT IS THE MAN WHO DOES THE COURTSHIP and in a traditional mindset MC has been exhi biting, that is how life goes in this game also. Again, IF MC NEEDS CONTACT WITH ALL THE GIRLS FOR HIS JOB, THAT IS THE WAY TO GO, YOU CANNOT BLOW OFF A WITNESS OR A PARTY IN YOUR INVESTIGATION WHEN YOU ARE RUNNING IT/IN THE DEEP OF IT.
The choices about ”keeping her at arms length” or telling a story are outta the blue:
MC is a prosecutor, someone intent in finding the truth and bring injustice into the light,
not sweep it under rug and acting like nothing happened.
MC is invested in her. I remember the early game was the lawyer friend talking about
a cute smalls public deffender and I assumed he was talking about Eme.
On that note, not seying hello to the gal you are talking about is rude.
That line of thinking made sense that she would look for MC and he would reciprovate.
Anyone in law enforcement or public employ should have a propper decorum.
Now, it seems she was a random girl watching two half naked men playing basketball
on a public court. As such, the greting of her before the rape attempt is a player choice
to go after someone, in the sense of us GETTING OUR FIRST MEANINGFUL CHOICE TO
PURSUE A RELATIONSHIP THAT MC WOULD NOT BLOW OFF.
REading this fiasco of players acting all high and mighy about a cutsy victim of violence
and MC being himself victim of same perpetrators of violence, that is a story they both share.
MC then walks off his stabbing, literally brushes it off like nothing and the whole fact he and this girl have been at least bullied and at most threateend and attempted rape/murder against them
by a big number of thugs, on the street, akin to a public basketball court, that is a most strongest of bonds IRL ... alas this game is painting MC a sociopath with no feelings and no decorum,
has no morals and literally thinks of some story from his childhood to break the ice,
when he shared a real story with this hottie. The story needs the prosecutor MC be a professional
and actually do his damn job, blowing off his friends and even the wife of a friend/someone he knows by name, that is outta character for any law enforcement, lawyer, public officer anywhere.
When you look literally anywhere, most shows start with the characters banging, because intimacy
is the way to get close really fast. Like all of us know, if we pursue someone to long with little
reciprocacy, we should have stoped long ago, also if we do not give the light of day to the hottie
that puRSues us, she is free to keep at it, because societal norms tell us IT IS THE MAN WHO DOES THE COURTSHIP and in a traditional mindset MC has been exhi biting, that is how life goes in this game also. Again, IF MC NEEDS CONTACT WITH ALL THE GIRLS FOR HIS JOB, THAT IS THE WAY TO GO, YOU CANNOT BLOW OFF A WITNESS OR A PARTY IN YOUR INVESTIGATION WHEN YOU ARE RUNNING IT/IN THE DEEP OF IT.
The choices about ”keeping her at arms length” or telling a story are outta the blue:
MC is a prosecutor, someone intent in finding the truth and bring injustice into the light,
not sweep it under rug and acting like nothing happened.
- Sep 3, 2020
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I disagree with this brother
I don't think she was a total creep at all I think she was just being nice
that's like somebody saying just because I smile at a pretty girl i am being a perv
and I was just surprised that smileing at her meant I was on her path because I was just trying to be friendly
and polite
but now that
Impious Monk
explained
I understand
- Sep 3, 2020
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and that's why I love games and
Developers like Impious Monk
do so much hard work to make sure nothing is forced on the player
it's a lot of hard work and I don't think that thank you will ever be enough
and as for me, I've already chosen the girl I'm going to end the game with
- Jul 10, 2017
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MC: Ugh ... Why do I have to be such a total jerk???
Does the dev have no writing props at all?
MC: Thank you for letting me get a surname of my choosing before,
only to make me nobody ”MC” on my damn DOCTOR”S DEGREE ...
MC: Are these just hollow card board cutouts? Did I never read CRIMIINAL STREET GANGS?
Why did I walk the attempted murder and stabbing off and swept it under rugs?
Did I just walk away from a SEX CRIME PROSECUTION because I never read that book?
MC: Why do I have all those posters of a discount secret agent who murders people indiscriminately?
Am I a vigilante in this game? Am I a spook? A double agent? Do I spy on USA for the Brits? WHaaa. ...?
You hate kids? You MONSTER!
MC: I must be going mad or losing eyesight. Examining a blank piece of paper for work ... SHeeeeeesh ... That thing is whiter than my shirt.
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- Apr 25, 2022
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Same. I picked "Say Hello" because that seemed like the polite option, but I instantly lost interest in her as an LI when she skipped off like a damn kid lol. Though I think I officially got knocked off her path when I picked "No" when she asked if MC liked kids.
- Sep 3, 2020
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again I want children just not with herSame. I picked "Say Hello" because that seemed like the polite option, but I instantly lost interest in her as an LI when she skipped off like a damn kid lol. Though I think I officially got knocked off her path when I picked "No" when she asked if MC liked kids.
but I do have to worry about Malena naming my unborn child Rambo
- Apr 25, 2022
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So far, It's just Jamie and Aghavni that are more my vibe. I don't have any interest in either Malena or Emmaline. So I do like the fact that the dev made it easy to get off of their paths.again I want children just not with her
but I do have to worry about Malena naming my unborn child Rambo