Unity Abandoned Legend of Krystal: Rebirth [v0.8] [LOK Team]

[HardcoreCuddler]

Well, well... I had all notifications disabled on F95, so I didn't know about what was going on here.

So... let me get this straight: you want to continue my project just with the assets ripped by Asset Studio?

Okay...

Man, if I could get a dollar for each time a fan, troll, outright hater, or even Kuja or Vlad, has thought that what I did was "trivial" and I was being too slow doing it... I'd be a millionaire.

And the cherry on top is that you think Kuja won't have a problem when he finds out, or even won't try suing you because the project is declared abandoned on a pirate site. That's wishful thinking at its best. You clearly don't know him and his gigantic ego. He'd have a fit at somebody using his art regardless if you do this 100% free, seriously.

Have you reached him to talk about it? Obviously not, because you wouldn't be saying "We already have the art". Trust me: you don't.

Now, if you don't have any qualms about using stolen art from another developer, what can I say? Nothing, really. Just be mindful and honest about it. Own your shit.

As for me, I think I also would have the right to be kind of annoyed that you think you can go into my garden and steal some tomatos just because "they're out in the open, behind a low fence, and didn't see any rabid dog guarding them".

But hey, do as you want. Those rigs are from when I was a rookie and most animations were pretty much fixed to fit with each other. Nothing as remotely complex as I'm doing now with Pizza Hot. The layer sorting is going to give you a BIG headache, though. I've also automated that in Unity, fortunately for my sanity.

You know, at the end of the day, it is what you already know and have admitted: you don't have time for this. Fuck, even I, that work FULL-TIME on game development, the actual creator of it, don't have time to take a LOK:Rebirth continuation side project.

Do you think that in the four years since the back-stabbing, I didn't think about it? And now I have a very capable artist that could redraw all the assets! So... why don't I do it and get "rich" again?? Am I stupid or what?!

Simply because it's freaking impossible to have a full-time job (as I have with Pizza Hot), and pretend to take on another full-fledged game project at that level of quality.

Guys... if AT LEAST, you can't even put aside your whole weekends to do this, please don't fool yourselves. People around here will jump at any hopes you give them. They already did with the disastrous reboot. They have read the eloquent words of Vlad on how they'll build a diamond castle, they saw the shiny previews of Kuja, and they ate the epic bullshit from the "professional" animators and coders they've hired with the income I helped to build, on how I did everything wrong and amateurishly.

Four years later...

And now is when you tell me you're different. Come on, go on.

TL;DR: Making sprites move is too hard for me so nobody else should try it
Dude, fucking cope, there were games made in assembly languages and you think this is hard?...

 

[Phanatic]

Also, and this is a side note, not necessarily aimed at anyone: I get the legal arguments and such, but this is a pirate forum. There are worse violations of copyright here, than animating with ripped (and abandoned) assets.

You missed the point.
It's not question of how I, sitting on this site, won't like that somebody on the Internet ripped someone else's work. It's the question of legitimate foundation for the project as it is.
1. Threat doesn't come from me - it comes from original creators - Abelius, Kuja and Nintendo. I won't really do anything with ripped art, but they could, at any point, at any time when they wish.
2. Why would my opinion not matter though? Am I not a potential customer? Do I not have the means to support the project? Yes, I sit on the pirate site, but I also am a person who can decide to support the project because I like it, which I did back i nthe day with LoK up until they kicked Abelius out. yes, I find here a game, I try it out and if I like it, I will support it with money.
On page 1 of every game here we literally have links to original web sites where we can support creators, this site allows to you to check the product before you pay for it. We all here are potential customers, so why should my opinion not matter?
For example: (naturally I speak for myself here only) I loved LoK0.8 and I really wish that it could come back in some way... But if I find out that somebody is making the same game with the same assets without original creators' permission, I will not wish to have anything to do with it, there won't be a single chance that I will invest even a cent into such a practice. There's a big market for my money and it makes sense to me to invest what I have into projects that at the very least don't make their ground foundation on others' achievements. You may call me a pirate or whatever, but I won't be supporting a questionable project for many months that may shut down at any moment because they suddenly "felt so".

Just from a business perspective, your step№1 as a project should be ensuring your potential customers that their investments that they are going to have to be doing for months, if not years, will end up making sense. And starting off with ripping some else's work without their permission is not giving you any points.

From your point though - hey, if you're okay with spending your money into random people that don't give you any kind of ensurances just because you want this game more than anything, it's also okay. It's your money after all.

 

[FireSauner0]

You missed the point.
It's not question of how I, sitting on this site, won't like that somebody on the Internet ripped someone else's work. It's the question of legitimate foundation for the project as it is.
1. Threat doesn't come from me - it comes from original creators - Abelius, Kuja and Nintendo. I won't really do anything with ripped art, but they could, at any point, at any time when they wish.
2. Why would my opinion not matter though? Am I not a potential customer? Do I not have the means to support the project? Yes, I sit on the pirate site, but I also am a person who can decide to support the project because I like it, which I did back i nthe day with LoK up until they kicked Abelius out. yes, I find here a game, I try it out and if I like it, I will support it with money.
On page 1 of every game here we literally have links to original web sites where we can support creators, this site allows to you to check the product before you pay for it. We all here are potential customers, so why should my opinion not matter?
For example: (naturally I speak for myself here only) I loved LoK0.8 and I really wish that it could come back in some way... But if I find out that somebody is making the same game with the same assets without original creators' permission, I will not wish to have anything to do with it, there won't be a single chance that I will invest even a cent into such a practice. There's a big market for my money and it makes sense to me to invest what I have into projects that at the very least don't make their ground foundation on others' achievements. You may call me a pirate or whatever, but I won't be supporting a questionable project for many months that may shut down at any moment because they suddenly "felt so".

Just from a business perspective, your step№1 as a project should be ensuring your potential customers that their investments that they are going to have to be doing for months, if not years, will end up making sense. And starting off with ripping some else's work without their permission is not giving you any points.

From your point though - hey, if you're okay with spending your money into random people that don't give you any kind of ensurances just because you want this game more than anything, it's also okay. It's your money after all.

I think I made my point quite clear. I get what you are saying. I got it the first time. Your points are valid, as always. There is no denying that.

I wouldn't throw money at it either. I don't expect this to be a fully-funded patreon project. I never did. Perhaps that's why my interpretation of the situation is looser than yours was. To summarize:

If there is a takedown, there is a takedown. The project will stop and that is that. That's all there is to it. If they feel like this attempt is conflicting with their interests, then of course, they may exercise whatever legal rights they have. Heck, even Nintendo could, if they felt like it. Even the Tribe devs couldn't argue in court that their newer project isn't infringing. Changing the design is a cop-out and they know it. They even kept the acronym of the original (infringing) title.

I do have to say though (and this is my cynicism talking). If the unofficial reboot as a form of competition scares the Tribe devs enough to actually take legal actions, I think that speaks more about the progress they have (or rather haven't) been making these past years than anything else.

 

[FireSauner0]

What I've said is that I reserve my right to be annoyed by people taking my work so casually. But I think I've been very clear in the sense I won't do anything.

What triggers me is the disrespectful, casual use of the word "trivial". A professional developer saying making a game would be "a game" because he makes a living out of real coding, it's a clear giveaway they don't know what they're getting into.

Kuja and Vlad thought the same. They thought the only thing stopping them from having a AAA LOK was... me. They thought that if they replaced this loser amateur with five specialists in their specific field, they'd do a game five times better and faster.

It's that attitude of "Hey, you had your chance, kid. Now let the real pros do their magic." that makes me facepalm and think "here we go again..."

I wonder when people will realize technical skills are just a subset of the requirements to make a game. But fuck it. Try to do in your free time of six months what I've done in two years full-time.

It reminds me of this, actually...

You must be registered to see the links

"But it's two of us, and only one of them!"

I understand now why you are angry.
For the record, I don't think your work was trivial. I don't think the vast majority who liked this incarnation of the game do. In my opinion (as a random ass developer), if people make wild statements like that (equating using pointers to pinters to being skillful is only one example) in the first place, you words (experienced you may be) aren't going to convince them. Sometimes people have to learn the hard way.

With all that said, I still think they should try. The worst case scenario is them failing, which (from my perspective) is not much different from what we have right now.

 

[D4n0w4r]

Outside of Gorepete's version of LoK, failure has been the only option for these games so far. Might as well see if someone can buck the trend.

 

[deskitteh]

Well, well... I had all notifications disabled on F95, so I didn't know about what was going on here.

So... let me get this straight: you want to continue my project just with the assets ripped by Asset Studio?

Okay...

Man, if I could get a dollar for each time a fan, troll, outright hater, or even Kuja or Vlad, has thought that what I did was "trivial" and I was being too slow doing it... I'd be a millionaire.

And the cherry on top is that you think Kuja won't have a problem when he finds out, or even won't try suing you because the project is declared abandoned on a pirate site. That's wishful thinking at its best. You clearly don't know him and his gigantic ego. He'd have a fit at somebody using his art regardless if you do this 100% free, seriously.

Have you reached him to talk about it? Obviously not, because you wouldn't be saying "We already have the art". Trust me: you don't.

Now, if you don't have any qualms about using stolen art from another developer, what can I say? Nothing, really. Just be mindful and honest about it. Own your shit.

As for me, I think I also would have the right to be kind of annoyed that you think you can go into my garden and steal some tomatos just because "they're out in the open, behind a low fence, and didn't see any rabid dog guarding them".

But hey, do as you want. Those rigs are from when I was a rookie and most animations were pretty much fixed to fit with each other. Nothing as remotely complex as I'm doing now with Pizza Hot. The layer sorting is going to give you a BIG headache, though. I've also automated that in Unity, fortunately for my sanity.

You know, at the end of the day, it is what you already know and have admitted: you don't have time for this. Fuck, even I, that work FULL-TIME on game development, the actual creator of it, don't have time to take a LOK:Rebirth continuation side project.

Do you think that in the four years since the back-stabbing, I didn't think about it? And now I have a very capable artist that could redraw all the assets! So... why don't I do it and get "rich" again?? Am I stupid or what?!

Simply because it's freaking impossible to have a full-time job (as I have with Pizza Hot), and pretend to take on another full-fledged game project at that level of quality.

Guys... if AT LEAST, you can't even put aside your whole weekends to do this, please don't fool yourselves. People around here will jump at any hopes you give them. They already did with the disastrous reboot. They have read the eloquent words of Vlad on how they'll build a diamond castle, they saw the shiny previews of Kuja, and they ate the epic bullshit from the "professional" animators and coders they've hired with the income I helped to build, on how I did everything wrong and amateurishly.

Four years later...

And now is when you tell me you're different. Come on, go on.

I saw some of your LOK footage on Sankaku complex and thought about the project... Looked it up. Thank god I bothered to look into it, since I remembered how you were working on Pizza Hot.

I'm sure that in regards to game development, we both wish that an updated patreon and shiny website were representative of substancial, consistent content.

Looking forward to what you're doing even if it's not the legendarily mid-2009s blue wolf.

 

[Kira999]

Oh, my commentary year ago about it will be abandoned@ was deleted for :trolling:. ok.

 

[Josefo4]

does anyone know of a similar game?

 

[BruceMcGivern]

I don't exactly understand what you are trying to say. I'm sorry to ask, but what exactly bothers you about this? (You did say to ,,own your shit")

The reason I don't really want to write guesses for that is because I think it would end up looking too confrontational, I apologize if this comes off that way.

Anyways, you said so yourself: The project has been abandoned for 4 years. I say they should try their hands at it. Worst case it ends up abandoned (or taken down). I think open source is a good idea at this point (or rather, the only possible idea), especially since it can potentially address most of what you wrote in your last few paragraphs.

I think you are better off not checking this thread at all, to be honest. I thought you didn't want anything to do with LoK after what happened (understandably).

Also, and this is a side note, not necessarily aimed at anyone: I get the legal arguments and such, but this is a pirate forum. There are worse violations of copyright here, than animating with ripped (and abandoned) assets.

Not mad at abelius. Just pointing out a unfortunate situation it happened to him but in another game of his that i could tell he wasn't that happy that it got leaked in here.

TL;DR You said it this is a pirate forum and that very thing happened to him.

And to clarify in advance i was comparing the game he's working with another games that are in this forum and those devs are so active in here sharing updates and feedback that i haven't seen nobody leaking their game so just wanted to point that out.

 

[nova_potato]

I started work on a renpy proof of concept to make an asset viewer.

Renpy doesn't support Spine models. You can export a bunch of pictures from Spine and use that to create a game, but it isn't really useful for building an asset viewer.
I switched over to Unity where I could import the Spine models and control them. Unfortunately I don't know Unity so I made a little bit of progress but I am not very fast at it.
Here is a screenshot of what I had in mind.

To get the interactions to work across characters, you have to split the assets in Unity and change the render order.
I could try to continue but just have really simple render orders. It would probably work find for a good number of animations.
In any case, if people are interested I might spend more of my spare timer tinkering with it.

 

[nova_potato]

Btw, I took the raw assets from the game and formatted them to make it easier to import into Spine and Unity.
The data here isn't anything you couldn't generate yourself from the game download, but I am adding it here to save you some time.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[dragonsix6969]

Renpy doesn't support Spine models. You can export a bunch of pictures from Spine and use that to create a game, but it isn't really useful for building an asset viewer.
I switched over to Unity where I could import the Spine models and control them. Unfortunately I don't know Unity so I made a little bit of progress but I am not very fast at it.
Here is a screenshot of what I had in mind.
View attachment 2868077
To get the interactions to work across characters, you have to split the assets in Unity and change the render order.
I could try to continue but just have really simple render orders. It would probably work find for a good number of animations.
In any case, if people are interested I might spend more of my spare timer tinkering with it.

8 Skeletons are drawn one at a time. To have background/foreground interaction, import 2 of the same skeleton and have one in the back

do you mean copy another Krystal and put it behind in spine?

 

[nova_potato]

do you mean copy another Krystal and put it behind in spine?

Right. For an example, you could load MaleSC, then Krystal, then MaleSC as skeletons. Then for the last MaleSC, you hide everything except for his foreground arm. Then when you animate it, you would see the MaleSC in the background, Krystal in the middleground, and only the MaleSC arm in the foreground.

 

[dragonsix6969]

Right. For an example, you could load MaleSC, then Krystal, then MaleSC as skeletons. Then for the last MaleSC, you hide everything except for his foreground arm. Then when you animate it, you would see the MaleSC in the background, Krystal in the middleground, and only the MaleSC arm in the foreground.

the only problem is the bones of another model, there will be a lot of them and they will interfere with animations.

 

[nova_potato]

the only problem is the bones of another model, there will be a lot of them and they will interfere with animations.

Not sure what problem you are having. This is an export from Spine with 3 skeletons: Uylani + Krystal + Uylani (Arm, leg, and boob only showing).
In the animation viewer, you can turn off visibility of the bones.

 

[dragonsix6969]

View attachment 2868482
Not sure what problem you are having. This is an export from Spine with 3 skeletons: Uylani + Krystal + Uylani (Arm, leg, and boob only showing).
In the animation viewer, you can turn off visibility of the bones.

I meant when creating animations myself. it will be a bit inconvenient.

 

[BruceMcGivern]

View attachment 2868482
Not sure what problem you are having. This is an export from Spine with 3 skeletons: Uylani + Krystal + Uylani (Arm, leg, and boob only showing).
In the animation viewer, you can turn off visibility of the bones.

And this is why Abelius is the absolute unit from the last he was involved on this game version.

Putting of course in mention whoever from the previous team did or may not did art polishing or whatever was done from each parties

Now THIS IS a very solid animation that provides a good quality fanservice to the longtimers OG's LoK connoisseurs!

 

[nick_nick95]

This link seems like a gallery viewer with clothing options and unreleased animation. Anybody know if it can be accessed/downloaded somehow?

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Nixoncr]

i have it:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Volchonochec]

Yo, whats up? How development progress going?