Unity Abandoned Legend of Krystal: Rebirth [v0.8] [LOK Team]

[Phanatic]

The team has green-lit the project. We'll start development soon™ with plans to ship a tech demo by Christmas.

Spoiler: Details on LoK Rebirth Continued

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I hope your team understands that you will be working on a game where:
1. Krystal character belongs to Nintendo, company will have a 100% right to shut you down or make you go to court if they ever find out you working on the project. This was the reason why new LoK tries into customisation in order to make sure that Krystal is not Krystal but rather their "DeviantArt OC, don't steal" type.
2. You will be using somebody else's work - story, writing, characters, art e.t.c. You would need to ask Abelius's and Kuja's blessings to work with their stuff, otherwise this would be stealing. Naturally even if they allow to use their work in order to continue, you might end up creating a product that could be creating competition on a limited niche market and when it comes to that even if they were ok with you working on their stuff at first, down the line they could demand you to stop further development because they changed their minds or something.

Basically you will be putting your heads under a double guillotine, praying that none of the blades falls down.

If you have a team that is open to work on such a project and you have programmers and artists why won't you just recreate the project with your own assets to make it 100% legit to start with, while making all of it extremely close to LoK0.8?
Yes, it will take longer, but this would be your game that you wouldn't have to be laying under the knife entire way.

 

[D4n0w4r]

I hope your team understands that you will be working on a game where:
1. Krystal character belongs to Nintendo, company will have a 100% right to shut you down or make you go to court if they ever find out you working on the project. This was the reason why new LoK tries into customisation in order to make sure that Krystal is not Krystal but rather their "DeviantArt OC, don't steal" type.
2. You will be using somebody else's work - story, writing, characters, art e.t.c. You would need to ask Abelius's and Kuja's blessings to work with their stuff, otherwise this would be stealing. Naturally even if they allow to use their work in order to continue, you might end up creating a product that could be creating competition on a limited niche market and when it comes to that even if they were ok with you working on their stuff at first, down the line they could demand you to stop further development because they changed their minds or something.

Basically you will be putting your heads under a double guillotine, praying that none of the blades falls down.

If you have a team that is open to work on such a project and you have programmers and artists why won't you just recreate the project with your own assets to make it 100% legit to start with, while making all of it extremely close to LoK0.8?
Yes, it will take longer, but this would be your game that you wouldn't have to be laying under the knife entire way.

Just as a reminder, Peach's Untold Tale is still up on Patreon after all these years. I don't think any of the Krystal-related projects ever got taken down, now that I think about it. Still a risk, of course, but I think this one is a safer bet in comparison to the other parody projects.

 

[BruceMcGivern]

The team has green-lit the project. We'll start development soon™ with plans to ship a tech demo by Christmas.

Spoiler: Details on LoK Rebirth Continued

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Spoiler: LOKR by The Tribe Devs

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We also have PR which will engage with the community on F95 and the original LOK Forums (Our PR team is insane and just want blood, be advised).

It's like people going to believe any of their BS at this point of time lmfao!
The whole LoK Team is a bunch of clowns to believe anyone will let slide their stalemate of pushing the game to finally get major content by december hahahahahahaha so damn funny xD

I have my bingo chart ready and it's so tiny you can tell the outcome from pulling the usual BS on their supporters like:

1- Sorry but due intern team decisions we decided to cease all operations related to LoK rebirth, Hope you understand and thanks for your continuous support! sorry no refunds tehehehehe

2- They do a flip and say for the 78546865th time the progress must be delayed for another 8 months with false hopes of their supporters to keep supporting a deadweight cause.

3- Likely they just gonna keep playing this tug-of-war game when they really just post screenshots, videos and renders to call them update progress just to satisfy those who like to see just media rather than expect actual dates of release of such content.

Anyways i could go even further with the list of things they already have done & pulled off, but the point of this game in specific is that it's never likely going to be finished nor even get actual progress because of their shady history of certain individuals that many know about on the LoK Team.

Something that been mentioned over the years that been a fact is ´´LoK games spin-offs or related to the original are just CURSED´´

 

[Phanatic]

Just as a reminder, Peach's Untold Tale is still up on Patreon after all these years. I don't think any of the Krystal-related projects ever got taken down, now that I think about it. Still a risk, of course, but I think this one is a safer bet in comparison to the other parody projects.

Well, no matter what, your project will always be in a scope's target to be one shotted because of that.
I can understand when you work on a game solo or with your buddy and both of you are okay with potential sudden KO, but when you have a team of people that could rely on the project in one way or another - it's just irresponsible towards them.

And in this particular scenario we have this doubled.
Plus Tribe team will be instantly informed and unlike Nintendo they will care the moment they know of this.

Once again, if you have resources to build the game, why not make everything safe and legit right from the start in order to ensure project's independent life cycle up until the end?

 

[Phanatic]

Something that been mentioned over the years that been a fact is ´´LoK games spin-offs or related to the original are just CURSED´´

There are a lot of problems, but none of them are "curse", really lol.
Seeing the development personally I assure you, that all of the problems they've been having up until now could've been prevented were they to have adequate game dev management. LoK team had alll the chances to make it work.

 

[nova_potato]

This is going to be fun to watch as the drama plays out in the community.
Everyone: keep your expectations low and get your popcorn ready.

 

[SugarBooger]

The team has green-lit the project. We'll start development soon™ with plans to ship a tech demo by Christmas.

Spoiler: Details on LoK Rebirth Continued

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Spoiler: LOKR by The Tribe Devs

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We also have PR which will engage with the community on F95 and the original LOK Forums (Our PR team is insane and just want blood, be advised).

Exciting, also do you guys plan to hire an artist for future updates?

 

[nova_potato]

Exciting, also do you guys plan to hire an artist for future updates?

Idk what they plan on doing, but imo, there is plenty of good art and what they need is an animator for more scenes.
If they decided to chose quantity over quality for the animations (like the old playshapes games), then they could actually make a lot of content really fast. But I don't know what their goal is.

 

[Nixoncr]

a lok revived by people who love the game and want to do it with determination and affection.
sounds too good to be true but hope is the last thing you lose:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[D4n0w4r]

LoK's many, many derivatives started in the first place because Playshapes was okay with people using his abandoned assets.

Cry about it.

 

[Phanatic]

Do you think that in the four years since the back-stabbing, I didn't think about it? And now I have a very capable artist that could redraw all the assets! So... why don't I do it and get "rich" again?? Am I stupid or what?!

Simply because it's freaking impossible to have a full-time job (as I have with Pizza Hot), and pretend to take on another full-fledged game project at that level of quality.

Hey, Abelius. How have you been?

If one day you decide to revive LoK:Re, please let us know.
In my eyes you have proved your worth long time ago and I would support such a game from you instantly.

 

[Liero]

*snip*

I don't think anyone should be disputing that game development is hard. If they want to give this a shot and see how far they get with it, I'm all for it personally.
If they can somehow make it work, all the better.

I followed your original project from near day one and spent quite a lot of money to make sure that I always got the latest release for whenever you updated it, so I am coming from a bit of a salty position when it comes to seeing this project die. I'm not hoping for gold here, I am hoping that it can at least continue in it's current state in terms of story and characters, rather than whatever that new project Kuja has. Nothing there really gripped me.

Especially them cutting the corruption route from Cenvir, as I found the conversations they had in order to twist Krystals morals was fun.

Kuja throwing a fit about this may happen, and that would obviously be a shame. Throwing a superior product under the bridge for something inferior is always a shame.
Sincerely hope for my own case that this project is restarted and it can continue in some sense.

I am currently subscribed to your Pizza Hot as well, so if two games of equal'ish corruption rates are being developed I won't complain.

 

[BruceMcGivern]

Well, well... I had all notifications disabled on F95, so I didn't know about what was going on here.

So... let me get this straight: you want to continue my project just with the assets ripped by Asset Studio?

Okay...

Man, if I could get a dollar for each time a fan, troll, outright hater, or even Kuja or Vlad, has thought that what I did was "trivial" and I was being too slow doing it... I'd be a millionaire.

And the cherry on top is that you think Kuja won't have a problem when he finds out, or even won't try suing you because the project is declared abandoned on a pirate site. That's wishful thinking at its best. You clearly don't know him and his gigantic ego. He'd have a fit at somebody using his art regardless if you do this 100% free, seriously.

Have you reached him to talk about it? Obviously not, because you wouldn't be saying "We already have the art". Trust me: you don't.

Now, if you don't have any qualms about using stolen art from another developer, what can I say? Nothing, really. Just be mindful and honest about it. Own your shit.

As for me, I think I also would have the right to be kind of annoyed that you think you can go into my garden and steal some tomatos just because "they're out in the open, behind a low fence, and didn't see any rabid dog guarding them".

But hey, do as you want. Those rigs are from when I was a rookie and most animations were pretty much fixed to fit with each other. Nothing as remotely complex as I'm doing now with Pizza Hot. The layer sorting is going to give you a BIG headache, though. I've also automated that in Unity, fortunately for my sanity.

You know, at the end of the day, it is what you already know and have admitted: you don't have time for this. Fuck, even I, that work FULL-TIME on game development, the actual creator of it, don't have time to take a LOK:Rebirth continuation side project.

Do you think that in the four years since the back-stabbing, I didn't think about it? And now I have a very capable artist that could redraw all the assets! So... why don't I do it and get "rich" again?? Am I stupid or what?!

Simply because it's freaking impossible to have a full-time job (as I have with Pizza Hot), and pretend to take on another full-fledged game project at that level of quality.

Guys... if AT LEAST, you can't even put aside your whole weekends to do this, please don't fool yourselves. People around here will jump at any hopes you give them. They already did with the disastrous reboot. They have read the eloquent words of Vlad on how they'll build a diamond castle, they saw the shiny previews of Kuja, and they ate the epic bullshit from the "professional" animators and coders they've hired with the income I helped to build, on how I did everything wrong and amateurishly.

Four years later...

And now is when you tell me you're different. Come on, go on.

I Still feel sad because of what ppl have done to your other game, really did a turnabout of how you interact with other folks and do let me tell you there's a couple of devs threads that haven't got any leaks because the dev and it's team members are active in here sharing WIPs and picarto stream summaries.

Anyways the damage it's been done more than one time and surely is a drag to deal with it. Or however you may be be feeling about the whole deal

Oh well brother abelius i do wish for your games to go well and maybe a wishful thinking whenever i see your name: This is the guy that will make it's own & better Krystal game xD
But i know that's just never going to happen and i'm ok with that

 

[FireSauner0]

Well, well... I had all notifications disabled on F95, so I didn't know about what was going on here.

So... let me get this straight: you want to continue my project just with the assets ripped by Asset Studio?

Okay...

Man, if I could get a dollar for each time a fan, troll, outright hater, or even Kuja or Vlad, has thought that what I did was "trivial" and I was being too slow doing it... I'd be a millionaire.

And the cherry on top is that you think Kuja won't have a problem when he finds out, or even won't try suing you because the project is declared abandoned on a pirate site. That's wishful thinking at its best. You clearly don't know him and his gigantic ego. He'd have a fit at somebody using his art regardless if you do this 100% free, seriously.

Have you reached him to talk about it? Obviously not, because you wouldn't be saying "We already have the art". Trust me: you don't.

Now, if you don't have any qualms about using stolen art from another developer, what can I say? Nothing, really. Just be mindful and honest about it. Own your shit.

As for me, I think I also would have the right to be kind of annoyed that you think you can go into my garden and steal some tomatos just because "they're out in the open, behind a low fence, and didn't see any rabid dog guarding them".

But hey, do as you want. Those rigs are from when I was a rookie and most animations were pretty much fixed to fit with each other. Nothing as remotely complex as I'm doing now with Pizza Hot. The layer sorting is going to give you a BIG headache, though. I've also automated that in Unity, fortunately for my sanity.

You know, at the end of the day, it is what you already know and have admitted: you don't have time for this. Fuck, even I, that work FULL-TIME on game development, the actual creator of it, don't have time to take a LOK:Rebirth continuation side project.

Do you think that in the four years since the back-stabbing, I didn't think about it? And now I have a very capable artist that could redraw all the assets! So... why don't I do it and get "rich" again?? Am I stupid or what?!

Simply because it's freaking impossible to have a full-time job (as I have with Pizza Hot), and pretend to take on another full-fledged game project at that level of quality.

Guys... if AT LEAST, you can't even put aside your whole weekends to do this, please don't fool yourselves. People around here will jump at any hopes you give them. They already did with the disastrous reboot. They have read the eloquent words of Vlad on how they'll build a diamond castle, they saw the shiny previews of Kuja, and they ate the epic bullshit from the "professional" animators and coders they've hired with the income I helped to build, on how I did everything wrong and amateurishly.

Four years later...

And now is when you tell me you're different. Come on, go on.

I don't exactly understand what you are trying to say. I'm sorry to ask, but what exactly bothers you about this? (You did say to ,,own your shit")

The reason I don't really want to write guesses for that is because I think it would end up looking too confrontational, I apologize if this comes off that way.

Anyways, you said so yourself: The project has been abandoned for 4 years. I say they should try their hands at it. Worst case it ends up abandoned (or taken down). I think open source is a good idea at this point (or rather, the only possible idea), especially since it can potentially address most of what you wrote in your last few paragraphs.

I think you are better off not checking this thread at all, to be honest. I thought you didn't want anything to do with LoK after what happened (understandably).

Also, and this is a side note, not necessarily aimed at anyone: I get the legal arguments and such, but this is a pirate forum. There are worse violations of copyright here, than animating with ripped (and abandoned) assets.

 

[HardcoreCuddler]

Well, well... I had all notifications disabled on F95, so I didn't know about what was going on here.

So... let me get this straight: you want to continue my project just with the assets ripped by Asset Studio?

Okay...

Man, if I could get a dollar for each time a fan, troll, outright hater, or even Kuja or Vlad, has thought that what I did was "trivial" and I was being too slow doing it... I'd be a millionaire.

And the cherry on top is that you think Kuja won't have a problem when he finds out, or even won't try suing you because the project is declared abandoned on a pirate site. That's wishful thinking at its best. You clearly don't know him and his gigantic ego. He'd have a fit at somebody using his art regardless if you do this 100% free, seriously.

Have you reached him to talk about it? Obviously not, because you wouldn't be saying "We already have the art". Trust me: you don't.

Now, if you don't have any qualms about using stolen art from another developer, what can I say? Nothing, really. Just be mindful and honest about it. Own your shit.

As for me, I think I also would have the right to be kind of annoyed that you think you can go into my garden and steal some tomatos just because "they're out in the open, behind a low fence, and didn't see any rabid dog guarding them".

But hey, do as you want. Those rigs are from when I was a rookie and most animations were pretty much fixed to fit with each other. Nothing as remotely complex as I'm doing now with Pizza Hot. The layer sorting is going to give you a BIG headache, though. I've also automated that in Unity, fortunately for my sanity.

You know, at the end of the day, it is what you already know and have admitted: you don't have time for this. Fuck, even I, that work FULL-TIME on game development, the actual creator of it, don't have time to take a LOK:Rebirth continuation side project.

Do you think that in the four years since the back-stabbing, I didn't think about it? And now I have a very capable artist that could redraw all the assets! So... why don't I do it and get "rich" again?? Am I stupid or what?!

Simply because it's freaking impossible to have a full-time job (as I have with Pizza Hot), and pretend to take on another full-fledged game project at that level of quality.

Guys... if AT LEAST, you can't even put aside your whole weekends to do this, please don't fool yourselves. People around here will jump at any hopes you give them. They already did with the disastrous reboot. They have read the eloquent words of Vlad on how they'll build a diamond castle, they saw the shiny previews of Kuja, and they ate the epic bullshit from the "professional" animators and coders they've hired with the income I helped to build, on how I did everything wrong and amateurishly.

Four years later...

And now is when you tell me you're different. Come on, go on.

TL;DR: Making sprites move is too hard for me so nobody else should try it
Dude, fucking cope, there were games made in assembly languages and you think this is hard?...

 

[Phanatic]

Also, and this is a side note, not necessarily aimed at anyone: I get the legal arguments and such, but this is a pirate forum. There are worse violations of copyright here, than animating with ripped (and abandoned) assets.

You missed the point.
It's not question of how I, sitting on this site, won't like that somebody on the Internet ripped someone else's work. It's the question of legitimate foundation for the project as it is.
1. Threat doesn't come from me - it comes from original creators - Abelius, Kuja and Nintendo. I won't really do anything with ripped art, but they could, at any point, at any time when they wish.
2. Why would my opinion not matter though? Am I not a potential customer? Do I not have the means to support the project? Yes, I sit on the pirate site, but I also am a person who can decide to support the project because I like it, which I did back i nthe day with LoK up until they kicked Abelius out. yes, I find here a game, I try it out and if I like it, I will support it with money.
On page 1 of every game here we literally have links to original web sites where we can support creators, this site allows to you to check the product before you pay for it. We all here are potential customers, so why should my opinion not matter?
For example: (naturally I speak for myself here only) I loved LoK0.8 and I really wish that it could come back in some way... But if I find out that somebody is making the same game with the same assets without original creators' permission, I will not wish to have anything to do with it, there won't be a single chance that I will invest even a cent into such a practice. There's a big market for my money and it makes sense to me to invest what I have into projects that at the very least don't make their ground foundation on others' achievements. You may call me a pirate or whatever, but I won't be supporting a questionable project for many months that may shut down at any moment because they suddenly "felt so".

Just from a business perspective, your step№1 as a project should be ensuring your potential customers that their investments that they are going to have to be doing for months, if not years, will end up making sense. And starting off with ripping some else's work without their permission is not giving you any points.

From your point though - hey, if you're okay with spending your money into random people that don't give you any kind of ensurances just because you want this game more than anything, it's also okay. It's your money after all.

 

[FireSauner0]

You missed the point.
It's not question of how I, sitting on this site, won't like that somebody on the Internet ripped someone else's work. It's the question of legitimate foundation for the project as it is.
1. Threat doesn't come from me - it comes from original creators - Abelius, Kuja and Nintendo. I won't really do anything with ripped art, but they could, at any point, at any time when they wish.
2. Why would my opinion not matter though? Am I not a potential customer? Do I not have the means to support the project? Yes, I sit on the pirate site, but I also am a person who can decide to support the project because I like it, which I did back i nthe day with LoK up until they kicked Abelius out. yes, I find here a game, I try it out and if I like it, I will support it with money.
On page 1 of every game here we literally have links to original web sites where we can support creators, this site allows to you to check the product before you pay for it. We all here are potential customers, so why should my opinion not matter?
For example: (naturally I speak for myself here only) I loved LoK0.8 and I really wish that it could come back in some way... But if I find out that somebody is making the same game with the same assets without original creators' permission, I will not wish to have anything to do with it, there won't be a single chance that I will invest even a cent into such a practice. There's a big market for my money and it makes sense to me to invest what I have into projects that at the very least don't make their ground foundation on others' achievements. You may call me a pirate or whatever, but I won't be supporting a questionable project for many months that may shut down at any moment because they suddenly "felt so".

Just from a business perspective, your step№1 as a project should be ensuring your potential customers that their investments that they are going to have to be doing for months, if not years, will end up making sense. And starting off with ripping some else's work without their permission is not giving you any points.

From your point though - hey, if you're okay with spending your money into random people that don't give you any kind of ensurances just because you want this game more than anything, it's also okay. It's your money after all.

I think I made my point quite clear. I get what you are saying. I got it the first time. Your points are valid, as always. There is no denying that.

I wouldn't throw money at it either. I don't expect this to be a fully-funded patreon project. I never did. Perhaps that's why my interpretation of the situation is looser than yours was. To summarize:

If there is a takedown, there is a takedown. The project will stop and that is that. That's all there is to it. If they feel like this attempt is conflicting with their interests, then of course, they may exercise whatever legal rights they have. Heck, even Nintendo could, if they felt like it. Even the Tribe devs couldn't argue in court that their newer project isn't infringing. Changing the design is a cop-out and they know it. They even kept the acronym of the original (infringing) title.

I do have to say though (and this is my cynicism talking). If the unofficial reboot as a form of competition scares the Tribe devs enough to actually take legal actions, I think that speaks more about the progress they have (or rather haven't) been making these past years than anything else.

 

[FireSauner0]

What I've said is that I reserve my right to be annoyed by people taking my work so casually. But I think I've been very clear in the sense I won't do anything.

What triggers me is the disrespectful, casual use of the word "trivial". A professional developer saying making a game would be "a game" because he makes a living out of real coding, it's a clear giveaway they don't know what they're getting into.

Kuja and Vlad thought the same. They thought the only thing stopping them from having a AAA LOK was... me. They thought that if they replaced this loser amateur with five specialists in their specific field, they'd do a game five times better and faster.

It's that attitude of "Hey, you had your chance, kid. Now let the real pros do their magic." that makes me facepalm and think "here we go again..."

I wonder when people will realize technical skills are just a subset of the requirements to make a game. But fuck it. Try to do in your free time of six months what I've done in two years full-time.

It reminds me of this, actually...

You must be registered to see the links

"But it's two of us, and only one of them!"

I understand now why you are angry.
For the record, I don't think your work was trivial. I don't think the vast majority who liked this incarnation of the game do. In my opinion (as a random ass developer), if people make wild statements like that (equating using pointers to pinters to being skillful is only one example) in the first place, you words (experienced you may be) aren't going to convince them. Sometimes people have to learn the hard way.

With all that said, I still think they should try. The worst case scenario is them failing, which (from my perspective) is not much different from what we have right now.

 

[D4n0w4r]

Outside of Gorepete's version of LoK, failure has been the only option for these games so far. Might as well see if someone can buck the trend.

 

[Deskitteh]

Well, well... I had all notifications disabled on F95, so I didn't know about what was going on here.

So... let me get this straight: you want to continue my project just with the assets ripped by Asset Studio?

Okay...

Man, if I could get a dollar for each time a fan, troll, outright hater, or even Kuja or Vlad, has thought that what I did was "trivial" and I was being too slow doing it... I'd be a millionaire.

And the cherry on top is that you think Kuja won't have a problem when he finds out, or even won't try suing you because the project is declared abandoned on a pirate site. That's wishful thinking at its best. You clearly don't know him and his gigantic ego. He'd have a fit at somebody using his art regardless if you do this 100% free, seriously.

Have you reached him to talk about it? Obviously not, because you wouldn't be saying "We already have the art". Trust me: you don't.

Now, if you don't have any qualms about using stolen art from another developer, what can I say? Nothing, really. Just be mindful and honest about it. Own your shit.

As for me, I think I also would have the right to be kind of annoyed that you think you can go into my garden and steal some tomatos just because "they're out in the open, behind a low fence, and didn't see any rabid dog guarding them".

But hey, do as you want. Those rigs are from when I was a rookie and most animations were pretty much fixed to fit with each other. Nothing as remotely complex as I'm doing now with Pizza Hot. The layer sorting is going to give you a BIG headache, though. I've also automated that in Unity, fortunately for my sanity.

You know, at the end of the day, it is what you already know and have admitted: you don't have time for this. Fuck, even I, that work FULL-TIME on game development, the actual creator of it, don't have time to take a LOK:Rebirth continuation side project.

Do you think that in the four years since the back-stabbing, I didn't think about it? And now I have a very capable artist that could redraw all the assets! So... why don't I do it and get "rich" again?? Am I stupid or what?!

Simply because it's freaking impossible to have a full-time job (as I have with Pizza Hot), and pretend to take on another full-fledged game project at that level of quality.

Guys... if AT LEAST, you can't even put aside your whole weekends to do this, please don't fool yourselves. People around here will jump at any hopes you give them. They already did with the disastrous reboot. They have read the eloquent words of Vlad on how they'll build a diamond castle, they saw the shiny previews of Kuja, and they ate the epic bullshit from the "professional" animators and coders they've hired with the income I helped to build, on how I did everything wrong and amateurishly.

Four years later...

And now is when you tell me you're different. Come on, go on.

I saw some of your LOK footage on Sankaku complex and thought about the project... Looked it up. Thank god I bothered to look into it, since I remembered how you were working on Pizza Hot.

I'm sure that in regards to game development, we both wish that an updated patreon and shiny website were representative of substancial, consistent content.

Looking forward to what you're doing even if it's not the legendarily mid-2009s blue wolf.