Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.41.0] [Selebus]

[nashk]

So I was replaying the game from scratch since I havn't experience the redone early game... and I have to say i'm finding the random "weeb facts" just a little annoying.

I mean before they were kind of interesting but they were just random notes sprinkled in the dialogue. Now molly is appearing out of nowhere even before her introduction and just spouting weeb stuff and its really annoying me. Early characters cameos are neat but the random drop in like this just doesn't work I think.

 

[KnowNoHope]

Question time, cause i'm bored.

Who do you think is the most well written character? Not potentially counting Akira, and not who you necessarily like or hate the most, just the one with the most depth and complexity in their characterisation.

best written...
probably Yumi.
I also don't like Yumi, like at all, I 'm just talking in a technical writing perspective. She has the most personality and consistency, her character growth and changes are externally motivated and you can pin point the exact events that make her do/try things a different way. Compared to some of the other characters who sometimes just do crap cause it sounds good. she also hasn't been a subject to the 'hur dur 4th wall breaks are good idea' treatment.

I would have said Sana, for much the same reason, but then Sel used her as a means to rant about things outside the game and also changed a crap ton of dialogue for her in the remake of ch.1 it seems. really diminishes the characters believability when that happens.

So I was replaying the game from scratch since I havn't experience the redone early game... and I have to say i'm finding the random "weeb facts" just a little annoying.

I mean before they were kind of interesting but they were just random notes sprinkled in the dialogue. Now molly is appearing out of nowhere even before her introduction and just spouting weeb stuff and its really annoying me. Early characters cameos are neat but the random drop in like this just doesn't work I think.

and yes... this is one of the reasons why I find Molly to be the least well written character... not the least likable though. just the worst made

 

[Wardtnaci]

Only 2,764 instances of "scene black"

Wow that a lot, wish some of dialogue scenes weren't done w/ black screen. Makes me think Sel is lazier than we think he/she is!
-[Hand over Mouth]- Prolly why he'd be strugglin to earn higher than 10k/month!!!

Also TY for file share, I will give a try and I'm fully expecting to miss out on dialogue because I'm an idiot too!!

Question time, cause i'm bored.

Who do you think is the most well written character? Not potentially counting Akira, and not who you necessarily like or hate the most, just the one with the most depth and complexity in their characterisation.

I want to chime in on this but don't know what I'd add that hasn't been already been said. Except to say that I'm a fan of pretty much all girls, main & side characters! In how they are individually unique from one another. Those girls who seem to be low on the characterization will most like get flushed out before the start of the Dark Route; if not, definitely before the start of the Purity Route(s).

can anyone tell me the ways to break the world didnt know what it meant and it did it when i asked ami to call me daddy (forgetting her parents died) had to rollback cuz i felt super guilty lol

Did you mean by Special Lust Names Sensei asks certain girls to call him by? If so...

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will help.

What everyone's sense on the likelihood that 0.29 with 5 main events will have a Reset? Also Over/Under # of Reset puzzles/questions = 9.5 which side will you guys take?

 

[vehemental]

I've been pondering for a while what Sel is trying to do with Otoha because it's really hard to see where her characterization is going. She's got such a different vibe to all the other characters, and she herself feels so....directionless.
But I think I've finally figured it out.

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She's just normal.

The main cast runs the gamut of just about every

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(anime LI character trope) on the spectrum - he may as well have used a dartboard with entries from that site when designing the characters. When it came time to set up the second floor, the only thing the game was missing was someone without any significant abnormalities in personality, trauma, or life circumstances. Someone other than Maya who had the normal attitude towards the premise of the game.

There's a reason her parents are so explicitly involved in her life - in comparison to the next tier of normies below her, Otoha is comically normal - Touka being extremely sheltered, Uta-chan who constantly brings up having to watch her grandpa slowly die, and Chika who's balancing the entire world on one finger after the loss of her mom. (And before you say Makoto - she's the most malevolent and self-centered human character in the game. Fight me.)

Otoha's actions are pretty consistent with someone of inconsistent maturity who doesn't know what she has until she loses it, and aren't abnormal enough IMO to label her as truly "callous" - especially when Io hates everyone and says things like she actively hopes other people fail and Kirin is... well, Kirin. If anything, Otoha's the calm to Kirin's callous, since she's likely not realizing how she's taking the things you mention for granted.

Either way - while I think Touka has the most potential for radical character development of any main girl in the game, simply because of the sheltered normality, Otoha isn't too far behind. Everyone's going to get dragged through the shit in this game, and since they've seen the least of it, as you say, they're going to get the worst of it.

 

[vehemental]

So I was replaying the game from scratch since I havn't experience the redone early game... and I have to say i'm finding the random "weeb facts" just a little annoying.

I mean before they were kind of interesting but they were just random notes sprinkled in the dialogue. Now molly is appearing out of nowhere even before her introduction and just spouting weeb stuff and its really annoying me. Early characters cameos are neat but the random drop in like this just doesn't work I think.

This is what I've been trying to say, the game's attitude towards its user experience is just so weird and inconsistent. In one breath, you'll be explicitly berated if you don't find the smell of Selly's farts puzzles the most entertaining and high-quality gameplay experiences ever created and worth the time they'd take without a walkthrough, but then in the next breath it's jarringly spoon-feeding you weeb factoids in a game that is obviously designed to cater almost exclusively to people who are already weebs - through the art style, subject matter, setting, and the use of every anime LI character trope under the sun.

As with a lot of the running gags I guess we just have to sit back and watch as it gets done to death because "self-awareness" is not a river in Kumon-mi.

 

[Jimbolance]

She's just normal.

The main cast runs the gamut of just about every

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(anime LI character trope) on the spectrum - he may as well have used a dartboard with entries from that site when designing the characters. When it came time to set up the second floor, the only thing the game was missing was someone without any significant abnormalities in personality, trauma, or life circumstances. Someone other than Maya who had the normal attitude towards the premise of the game.

There's a reason her parents are so explicitly involved in her life - in comparison to the next tier of normies below her, Otoha is comically normal - Touka being extremely sheltered, Uta-chan who constantly brings up having to watch her grandpa slowly die, and Chika who's balancing the entire world on one finger after the loss of her mom. (And before you say Makoto - she's the most malevolent and self-centered human character in the game. Fight me.)

Otoha's actions are pretty consistent with someone of inconsistent maturity who doesn't know what she has until she loses it, and aren't abnormal enough IMO to label her as truly "callous" - especially when Io hates everyone and says things like she actively hopes other people fail and Kirin is... well, Kirin. If anything, Otoha's the calm to Kirin's callous, since she's likely not realizing how she's taking the things you mention for granted.

Either way - while I think Touka has the most potential for radical character development of any main girl in the game, simply because of the sheltered normality, Otoha isn't too far behind. Everyone's going to get dragged through the shit in this game, and since they've seen the least of it, as you say, they're going to get the worst of it.

I don't majorly disagree with anything you said, just my point was more about what Sel's purpose of having such a normal girl in the cast was. It really couldn't /just/ be to fill out a checklist or balance things out. She's a main girl, she's going to have some kind of arc, so I was just guessing where he intended to go with it.

 

[Jimbolance]

Also since it was brought up again in the most recent update there's one detail that's just been driving me mad...

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[vehemental]

I don't majorly disagree with anything you said, just my point was more about what Sel's purpose of having such a normal girl in the cast was. It really couldn't /just/ be to fill out a checklist or balance things out. She's a main girl, she's going to have some kind of arc, so I was just guessing where he intended to go with it.

The same thing that's inside the box in Dune. Pain.

Sooner or later, everyone in this game is going to get a turn on the trauma carousel. This is what happens when one of the deities running your world is a literal god-tier gigacoomer. (There's a reason Nozomu was (is) fucking Sekai (the world).) Each of the characters is going to react to these events in a different way. Some will handle it better than others, based on their backgrounds, personality traits, and experience. That said I think she is so normal for the variety - the variety of her reaction. Variety is exactly what gigacoomers demand, after all.

 

[Wardtnaci]

I don't majorly disagree with anything you said, just my point was more about what Sel's purpose of having such a normal girl in the cast was. It really couldn't /just/ be to fill out a checklist or balance things out. She's a main girl, she's going to have some kind of arc, so I was just guessing where he intended to go with it.

I get the sense that by the Purity Route phase of the game depending on the choices made through out the game we're going to see certain girls whose character will either have Growth or Self-destruct or remain unchanged. Also as different Purity Routes are played out so will the girls change in which of the 3 categories they will fall under.

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[vehemental]

Also since it was brought up again in the most recent update there's one detail that's just been driving me mad...

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Men dislike the idea of lesbian relationships for one reason - insecurity that their partner's new partner will be better in bed than they are. It's a valid concern in the vast majority of cases, men are lazy as hell in bed and tend towards a lack of empathy for their partner.

Some men grow out of this. Other men just stay on the internet and bitch about shit like NTR and lesbian relationships in the porn games they play to cope with that insecurity forever.

 

[Jimbolance]

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It was in one of the What is/was/could of been events I think? Sensei and Ami are walking together talking about Noriko ( I think she's there too?)

 

[Wardtnaci]

And before you say Makoto - she's the most malevolent and self-centered human character in the game. Fight me.)

Not trying to fight you on this, I can see Makoto being like that. I get the feeling that she's insecure which has lead her to have a need to control the situation she finds herself in. But being the most malevolent and self-centered while Nodoka is in the picture, I can't agree with.

It was in one of the What is/was/could of been events I think? Sensei and Ami are walking together talking about Noriko ( I think she's there too?)

Not sure if the event was named What Is or What Was, but I do remember that event where Akira and Ami are walking together and then joined by Noriko.

Does anyone know if that was a Ch.2 Main or Ami event? And the name of said event.

EDIT: It was the Ch.2 Main Event "What Was"

 

[Jimbolance]

Not sure if the event was named What Is or What Was, but I do remember that event where Akira and Ami are walking together and then joined by Noriko.

Does anyone know if that was a Ch.2 Main or Ami event? And the name of said event.

Just went and checked, Ch.2 Main Event " What Was", this interaction

 

[vehemental]

Not trying to fight you on this, I can see Makoto being like that. I get the feeling that she's insecure which has lead her to have a need to control the situation she finds herself in. But being the most malevolent and self-centered while Nodoka is in the picture, I can't agree with.

We can revisit this if Nodoka ever intentionally Bluejays in front of someone else. I get that perhaps that scene was injected into the game for cheap shock value and might not have been very well thought out, but you don't do that shit right in front of someone else unless something is either deeply, horrifyingly wrong with you, or that person fucked you up in some unimaginably horrible way.

Ruined her forever for me.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Amusing interpretation that is also probably incorrect.

Nozomu fucked the world into existence. Does that mean Nozomu is both Sekai's father AND her husband?

 

[barglenarglezous]

We can revisit this if Nodoka ever intentionally Bluejays in front of someone else. I get that perhaps that scene was injected into the game for cheap shock value and might not have been very well thought out, but you don't do that shit right in front of someone else unless something is either deeply, horrifyingly wrong with you, or that person fucked you up in some unimaginably horrible way.

Bit of column A and a bit of column B.

 

[alex2011]

I don't majorly disagree with anything you said, just my point was more about what Sel's purpose of having such a normal girl in the cast was. It really couldn't /just/ be to fill out a checklist or balance things out. She's a main girl, she's going to have some kind of arc, so I was just guessing where he intended to go with it.

We're probably going to be witness to the game world breaking her down as opposed to the others who already have something going on, that could very well be part of her purpose.

 

[KnowNoHope]

(And before you say Makoto - she's the most malevolent and self-centered human character in the game. Fight me.)

We can revisit this if Nodoka ever intentionally Bluejays in front of someone else. I get that perhaps that scene was injected into the game for cheap shock value and might not have been very well thought out, but you don't do that shit right in front of someone else unless something is either deeply, horrifyingly wrong with you, or that person fucked you up in some unimaginably horrible way.

Ruined her forever for me.

I will cause you got makoto all wrong my guy. She was driven to prove how much she is not her mother or like her mother, she is ashamed for being involved in anyway with the sex industry, to the point she is out right ashamed of her sexuality. this is why she is not 'normal'. she is not malevolent or self centered, she does things for other people all the time, she plans parties, she basically teaches the class, she organizes every beach event, she covers for other peoples mistakes so they dont get left behind or kicked out of school though it pisses her off for having to do it in the first place she still does it. that is the act of a selfless person that is pissed they have to be the responsible one cause no one else will even try. If you wanted to get into the dark part of makoto; she tried to off herself in front of sensei after she lost a massive part of her identity and embraced her sexuality( which is why i think it was decently thought out), where she suddenly started to identify with her mother in what she saw as the worst way possible whom she both loathes and loves(though i think she hates her way more ). Then you have the news about her dad, in which everything that made makoto who she was, before sensei started banging her, was built around her idolized version of her father. Makoto is probably the second best written girl IMO after Yumi because everything about her and her personality can easily be explained by everything in her life.

edit: she blue jayed in front of sensei cause it was him that made her lose her identity or self image. it was sensei that made her into a whore in her eyes, a whore just like her whore mother. (not my opinion of maki)

 

[derekthered56]

We can revisit this if Nodoka ever intentionally Bluejays in front of someone else. I get that perhaps that scene was injected into the game for cheap shock value and might not have been very well thought out, but you don't do that shit right in front of someone else unless something is either deeply, horrifyingly wrong with you, or that person fucked you up in some unimaginably horrible way.

Ruined her forever for me.

Ditto what barglenarglezous said. It was a terrible thing to do but I'd hardly call a suicidally depressed teenager "malevolent". Especially compared to Kirin and Nodoka who have planned out blackmail and rape plots in advance.

 

[vehemental]

I will cause you got makoto all wrong my guy. She was driven to prove how much she is not her mother or like her mother, she is ashamed for being involved in anyway with the sex industry, to the point she is out right ashamed of her sexuality. this is why she is not 'normal'. she is not malevolent or self centered, she does things for other people all the time, she plans parties, she basically teaches the class, she organizes every beach event, she covers for other peoples mistakes so they dont get left behind or kicked out of school though it pisses her off for having to do it in the first place she still does it. that is the act of a selfless person that is pissed they have to be the responsible one cause no one else will even try. If you wanted to get into the dark part of makoto; she tried to off herself in front of sensei after she lost a massive part of her identity and embraced her sexuality( which is why i think it was decently thought out), where she suddenly started to identify with her mother in what she saw as the worst way possible whom she both loathes and loves. Then you have the news about her dad, in which everything that made makoto who she was, before sensei started banging her, was built around her idolized version of her father. Makoto is probably the second best written girl IMO after Yumi because everything about her and her personality can easily be explained by everything in her life.

edit: she blue jayed in front of sensei cause it was him that made her lose her identity or self image. it was sensei that made her into a whore in her eyes, a whore just like her whore mother. (not my opinion of maki)

What you refer to as selfless behavior could potentially be interpreted as a

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- this being a psychological horror after all. I've never really known what level of analysis to use on this game so I don't know if this is valid or not, but I've met truly selfless people, and they're not the type to tell someone repeatedly to "look at them more" or eagerly compete with their best friend over something they both wanted. "Selfless" better describes Futaba IMO which might be why it's also the name of one of her events

I'm also not talking whether Bluejay was justified or not, I'm talking how she did it. I don't normally get into grading other people's trauma (even when they're fictional characters) but once you drag other people into it and inflict your demons upon them, it becomes fair game in my mind. So I'm sorry, but what Sensei "did" to her - repeatedly spurning her advances to the point SHE "basically blackmailed" HIM into finally fucking her - does not justify her Bluejaying in front of him.

Telling him to close his eyes was a pathetic attempt at distancing her actions from the long-term consequences he would (presumably, from her perspective) carry with him for the rest of his life. The sound a body makes as dozens of bones crunch on concrete below and the sight afterwards is a lot more visceral and traumatizing than simply seeing someone jump off of a high place.

All she had to do was ask Sensei if she could be alone for a while on the rooftop and do it after he left and I'd agree more with everything you said.

Again - I don't have enough faith in Selly to say for sure whether this interpretation was intended, or whether the scene was just poorly written and most other people just took it at face value, so ultimately it can only be decided in the future if she continues to develop in the way I described or in the way you described.