At first I thought the three Gods were close to Rudolf Steiner's dark trinity:
HOPE (slash Nozomu?) corresponding to Lucifer:
A spirit (in this case God) concerned with sensuality and ego. 'Do the sex, everyone loves you'.
HOPE gets some kind of 'loosh' from that presumably. Sensei seems very jacked in to HOPE.
The Wire God corresponding to Ahriman-
A God concerned with material reality, the physical, the measurable, information.
If it was ahrimanic it would say that there is nothing but the 'physical' and anything that appears to the contrary is an
illusion; an after effect of the programming necessary to make beings act and perceive a 'self'.
(To what degree do any of the characters have free will, and to what degree are the 'Gods' actually Gods?)
The Final God would correspond to Sorath, the sun demon (a negation, a void, a black sun)
and presumably would be revealed later as by far the greatest evil, and the thing setting up the game
(if true to form- corrupting the necessary and human traits of HOPE and the Wire God to evil ends)
Think of it as a lovecraftian being but with true malice.
As is said at the beginning of the game, and I remember being reiterated at least once:
"Nothing is real, after all."
"Nothing will ever be real."
"Not me, not you, not the characters in this game."
"Nothing."
"We're all just air."
I now think that is probably just Selebus and there is no 'Sorath' God but it would be a nice twist if the meta-narrator turned out to be the big baddie and the initial premise of "come live a new life in beautiful Kumon-mi" was
further fucked into the horror of being an active, not passive, participant in some kind of evil loosh cyle... thing.
Hmmm... Reading over this I think there is something in all this crap^ but more that it's:
I have seen Yaldaboath be called the clock God before, so maybe things will take a gnostic direction and the world-prison the characters find themselves in can actually be overcome.
Deff will replay and pay better attention.
I could see that as an external reference sort of like how this game as a whole is inspired by multiple other Denpa games like DDLC. Internally, however, I would say they correspond to characters within the story that are no longer around, mentioned, but not alive, or that they are entirely separate beings. I am more inclined to believe the separate beings part for now internally.
Hey, I'm new to this game and I'm insanely creeped out by it at the moment. The main character comes off as aggressively fucked up, which is twice as creepy since he's some sort of body-swapping self-insert. Is another shoe going to drop soon or is this just a game about a gaslighting rapist fucking girls who thinks he's someone else? I'd like to get out early if that's all we've got here.
There's more to it that has yet to be revealed, but no, it is NOT going to get lighthearted if that's what you're looking for by 'another shoe.' If anything, things are going to get worse. This is a Denpa game, a horror genre focused mainly on familiar characters acting in unfamiliar ways.
estrada777
Waiting for Android apk.
Use Joiplay
There's obviously a lot more to it but if those are concerns of yours then this may not be the game for you.
I have to agree with this except that I do believe this to be confirmed already, not that it may not be a game for Rex, but that it IS not a game for him. That's perfectly alright, the Denpa genre can be considered an acquired taste, not everyone will enjoy it.
I don't know how to judge "soon", because I'm not sure where you are in the game. I will say that you are absolutely correct in what you have noticed, that the situation in Kumon-Mi is deeply fucked up and what Sensei is doing is abhorrent, and the narrative is not unaware of this fact. There are moments of new information which recontextualize a lot of what's happening, and extremely satisfying moments where Sensei gets called on his shit (one of the girls slaps him at one point when catching him doing something fucked-up, and I rolled back Ren'Py like half a dozen times to watch it over and over).
However, the narrative is a very slow burn. There isn't a "shoe drop" in the form of "everyone realizes how twisted this all is and Sensei reforms," because, without spoiling things too much, part of the horror is that what's going on affects people's minds, not just altering them but preventing them from noticing that they have been altered. At the start of the game, the narrator says this: This world was made for you. Please enjoy it to your heart's content. I am pretty sure that is not Selebus talking to the player, but someone within the fiction of the game talking to Sensei.
It is totally valid to go "sorry, the path to getting to the payoff is way too uncomfortable for me, watching Sensei be awful is too gross and I am bailing." People have different thresholds of willingness to put up with unpleasantness in their entertainment. But, from someone who had similar realizations while playing the game, I can say that there is payoff (though the game is still far from done, because Selebus has Ambitions, so the final payoffs are still a long ways out).
Most definitely abhorrent, I've gone off on him a few times now, at least mentally, because he did something so severely wrong to me that I couldn't just sit back and watch even as the player of a game in which he is only a character. You got a source file on that slap? I think I want to just watch it over and over without having to play that event. It's probably a .GIF or .WEBM or whatever the game uses for animations and other moving elements that aren't still images.
Definitely a slow burn and I don't think this story in particular would work any other way, Selebus made a good call with that. It isn't a spoiler to identify basic concepts of the game's genre, such as what a Denpa horror game is. Calling it out that things probably won't be getting better any time soon should be spoiler free. I have to agree that the beginning narration is not referring to the player, a fourth wall break, but is referring to Sensei.
Absolutely, this genre is absolutely not for everyone and it is totally fine to get out of dodge before shit hits the fan. In fact, now is probably the last good opportunity because I predict shit is about to hit the fan very soon and it is going to hit hard and fast. Those payoffs are the ray of hope that I look to in order to keep myself from backing off instinctively. I am a very loyal person, by no means a yes man, but those who earn my loyalty as Selebus has do get it. I will absolutely fight my own automatic responses to keep going if that's what it takes. I can't say I feel obligated to stick around, I don't, it's more like I want to stick around because I like how much of an impact this game has had on me.
I needed something to snap me out of blocking off my emotions during certain activities like gaming, at least blocking them off as best as a human can, and Selebus provided exactly what I needed. I used to be nothing more than a biological machine, if that makes sense, but this game proved more than a match for that. It makes me feel angry, sad, uncomfortable, happy, the whole spectrum of emotion, like no other game has been capable of except Harem Hotel after this game did it first. In fact, this game may have been the catalyst to Harem Hotel's ability to do similar because I have been playing Harem Hotel longer and it was only after this game came along that I was able to feel for the characters in Harem Hotel.
Wait, do ppl actually play the game this way? Grunting through their teeth and waiting for some consequences? In this case, is the problem Sensei being a scumbag (because that's the case for most mc's out there) or the narrative repeatedly acknowledging it, but not doing anything about it?
Probably a mix in most cases.
In my case, the problem is that Sensei is a scumbag, the narrative eventually admits it, and nothing is done about it. I got to the point where he
and I was done. As far as I can tell, what I'm going to witness in this game is Sensei preying upon an entire class (or maybe city?) of girls who think that he's a reputable authority figure (and/or personal friend) who cares about anything other than their bodies and the sex he can get out of them. He is quite literally a gaslighting rapist who has apparently been given carte blanche to literally and metaphorically fuck this entire world of girls.
I understand that the game is fiction and none of this is really happening, but I can't imagine that watching visceral realistic rape porn would be too much worse. Rape porn typically doesn't drop foreplay consisting of manipulating impressionable high schoolers into sex under false pretenses beforehand. It doesn't let you get to know the girls, watch a man prey on their hopes and insecurities, and then manipulate them into whatever depraved thing he wants, convincing them that's really what they wanted all along. Watching Makoto twist her mind into knots to accept how her beloved Sensei was acting made my skin crawl.
You're absolutely right that a lot of porn game MCs are scumbags, but there's typically some level of complicity presented in the game beforehand. You're shown unequivocally that yes, the main character is an unrepentant scumbag, the game accepts it, you accept it and you both accept this fact as reality and move on. A lot of the time these games run on porn logic, where getting stuck in the washing machine, fucking the pizza delivery guy, and having an entire city of step-sisters is casually accepted. This game does not. You're placed in the driver seat in a world with reasonably realistic girls and watch as your character starts his gaslighting and manipulating them. The girls have realistic responses, second guessing themselves, assuring themselves that the MC was just kidding, and generally letting things go because they don't know how to react to them. You're occasionally given the illusion of some sort of choice, where you choose how you want to gaslight a girl, though I only witnessed false choices unless there was a tally behind the scenes. I think the difference between Sensei and other scumbag MCs is that he's from a world of porn logic imported into a world of hard logic. It's so damn uncomfortable to watch.
I hope that answered your question. In response, allow me a few questions in response. What about this game do you enjoy? From the handful of posts and reviews I've read here, I'm led to believe there's some fucked up god mojo being exerted upon this world, but does that justify following a scumbag around on his gaslighting and raping spree for hours just to see the plot? Did I jump the gun and that's not what comes next? I'm aware that there are people who get their rocks off to rape, whether real or imagined, but I guess I'm a little terrified at how positive the response is to this game. Am I just too sensitive to rape or am I missing something here?
Ah, so you barely scratched the surface. Without spoiling, I can tell you now he already has done worse. Normally, the girls thinking he is a reputable guy would be correct because he was prior to the start of the game from what I can tell, but something happened to change that, nobody knows what. He actually isn't a rapist since no sex has been forced, yet, but I don't doubt that is an entirely possible way for things to go with this character. I've already braced myself for a scene where he rapes one of the less assertive girls who has no hope of resisting him.
A lot of games accept porn logic because they are by all forms of the term porn games, however, Lessons in Love is more of a Game of Thrones type. It has sex on the side, but it is focused on the story. The girls are written to be as human as possible and Selebus has done an amazing job with that, but this does come at the cost of making it quite a bit harder to take when something bad happens, whether player Sensei is involved or not.
What I enjoy is the quality of Selebus's writing, the way I am able to feel for the girls as if they are actual humans, and the way I am can absolutely blow my top at player Sensei when he does something incredibly wrong.
Yes, to me, the justification is there.
No, you might not have jumped the gun, the Denpa genre of horror is not for everyone, not everyone can handle it and those who can likely had to acquire a taste for the genre like I did through games like DDLC.
The response to this game is mostly positive because of my first response to your questions, the writing is absolutely amazing. If this had been written at typical porn game quality, I very much doubt we would be having this conversation because I would then have to change my first response in this section to 'because it is only fiction' instead of basing that response on the quality of the writing. 'It's just a game' is my usual logic to justify any kind of forced content whether mind control or rape.
No, again, rape is not a genre that everyone can enjoy, it is a very niche crowd that can and a lot of us go by the logic that it is just fiction. However, even with me being able to enjoy rape in games, I doubt I would have been any different than you are now if the writing was worse than it is in this game because I feel for the characters. If the writing was at a lesser level where I was able to feel for the characters, but the writing still wasn't to the point I was able to enjoy the game to the level I do, I very much believe I would be in your position.
The main things that I enjoy are the mystery aspects and also seeing the non-Sensei characters interact with each other -- I'm invested in the emotional arcs, and I find the game of "how is this particular thing going to end badly" engaging for basically the same reason that I enjoy reading/watching tragic fiction. If you think of this as a Game of Thrones of adult visual novels -- watching awful people do awful things (Sensei is the worst by far, but, uh, not the only sexual assaulter in the cast) in a setting with a lot of mysteries, very compelling moment-to-moment writing, and occasional moments of light that shine all the brighter for coming out of such a shithole -- I think you'll understand some of the appeal. (Another aspect, which is idiosyncratic but which I've seen other people express appreciation for, is the game's extreme realness about the experience of mental illness and the sorts of self-destructive behaviors one finds themselves engaging in as maladaptive coping mechanisms. Rin's events are the most obvious on this front, but I found Makoto the most #relatable, personally.)
With regard to Yumi specifically, because that was your line in the sand: I think it's important to point out that Sensei didn't do that. His body did, but it was not responding to his will: it happened automatically, without his input, and he doesn't know why. A number of images flashed up when he did that, the first two having the lines "You can not choose." and "You have already made your choice." And as of the latest public build of the game, .19p2, Sensei and Yumi have had no further physical involvement. That being said, I am pretty sure you are not going to enjoy this game, and I am not here to persuade you to try. There's some predatory stuff in chapter 2 which is horrifically uncomfortable to read, and I am pretty sure there's going to be more and worse down the line. If everything thus far is squicking you out, by all means, bail and engage with some other form of media.
Indeed, he was not in control, he was being controlled and I don't think by what has ever been revealed outright, but it was likely one of the 'gods' doing it.
I absolutely agree with your assessment that Rex is just not the type to be able to enjoy this game. Denpa and rape are both acquired tastes and not very easy to acquire either. I also recommend that Rex finds another game, this just isn't one for him.
