forbiddentwo

Member
Jun 20, 2017
337
163
Am I the only one who likes the sex scenes? I guess I wouldn't without all the lead up, in the same way that there are Japanese games that I didn't like when I couldn't read the text but that I appreciate now. The raw mechanical action isn't the attraction, you can get plenty of that everywhere.

Also am I the only one whose primary exposure to H games was getting fucking traumatized ordering games from J-list that turned out to be utsuge? Maybe that's why I'm so okay with this?
 

forbiddentwo

Member
Jun 20, 2017
337
163
Huh. Is it just me or is there no replay option for the first new Touka scene? I checked to see if maybe it was registered as a Tsukasa scene but nope.
 
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worthlesspeon

Member
Jun 10, 2017
190
443
You know I was actually on your side with whole "I don't care what the creator thinks I'll interact with art however I please!" thing you were doing earlier, but I don't understand how you can think that and switch to wishing his ruin because you didn't like a part of what he made and then trying to dictate the "Proper Way" to make a game.

I'm starting to believe that you actually care *too much* about what he thinks. Just bypass everything like you said you would instead of coming in here and complaining about it.
I, at least, would not fault you for that, even if I think you get more value from meeting art on it's own terms.
Losing money is the only feedback these type of people take, which is why I hope for that. If he loses enough money, then the game design might actually change for the better. If he wants to keep making his "art" despite losses of revenue, then more power to him.

Sound is part of the game experience anyway, if you don't like using the sound, that's tough. Selebus has already said no every single time this issue comes up. The requirement has been mentioned multiple times throughout this thread, by the way, because people keep bringing it up and will not let the dead, rotting horse they have already beaten rest in peace.
Sound is a part of the experience, but until you get to that event, it is absolutely not clear that the sound isn't just part of setting the mood but instead physically required to progress. Most deaf people can hear well enough to still experience music. What they cannot necessarily do is decipher already difficult to understand voices, especially when its volume is not separately adjustable from the volume. The game gives you no warning that this is necessary. And even during the event, if you happen to have trouble hearing the voice - there is no way to realize that the instructions given by the voice are key to progressing. And then when you ask for help on the discord, you're met with a "my game, my rules, I don't give a fuck if you can't play".

So yeah, I'd say he's ableist. I'm sorry you're too enamored with the guy to see that.

Funny thing about him not knowing how to code things so that you can't look up answers, it would defeat one of the purposes of the replay function not to mention he isn't the only developer associated with the game in some way. He is the only developer working on it, but there are other people who know exactly how to do what he does not or at least has not shown he knows how to do. If I were so inclined, I'm not because again it defeats one of the purposes of the replay function, I could offer exactly what he would need to make it impossible or to even do other things that would deter it that are much worse. I've been a programmer longer than this game has existed by quite a large margin, the early 2000s with my actual learning starting in the late 90s.
I'm not talking about the replay function (which is not a legitimate way to lookup answers when there is zero guidance whatsoever), but rather the ability to look through the script. It would be trivial to make the answers impossible to lookup (more difficult, though not impossible to make it impossible to modify the script to ignore the puzzles altogether).
 
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forbiddentwo

Member
Jun 20, 2017
337
163
Sound is a part of the experience, but until you get to that event, it is absolutely not clear that the sound isn't just part of setting the mood but instead physically required to progress. Most deaf people can hear well enough to still experience music. What they cannot necessarily do is decipher already difficult to understand voices, especially when its volume is not separately adjustable from the volume. The game gives you no warning that this is necessary. And even during the event, if you happen to have trouble hearing the voice - there is no way to realize that the instructions given by the voice are key to progressing. And then when you ask for help on the discord, you're met with a "my game, my rules, I don't give a fuck if you can't play".

So yeah, I'd say he's ableist. I'm sorry you're too enamored with the guy to see that.
Putting the whole validity of '-isms' for the moment, I literally just hopped on the discord for the game and searched for 'deaf' and found him saying that if you're deaf it's okay to ask for help.
 

worthlesspeon

Member
Jun 10, 2017
190
443
Putting the whole validity of '-isms' for the moment, I literally just hopped on the discord for the game and searched for 'deaf' and found him saying that if you're deaf it's okay to ask for help.
Perhaps he's had a change of heart since I left the discord. Last thing I remember is someone offering to help if a similar situation were to come up again, and him basically shooting that down and threatening bans if anyone were to do that.
 

forbiddentwo

Member
Jun 20, 2017
337
163
Perhaps he's had a change of heart since I left the discord. Last thing I remember is someone offering to help if a similar situation were to come up again, and him basically shooting that down and threatening bans if anyone were to do that.
FWIW I can easily see someone just not mentioning that they're deaf and asking for help without even thinking that might be the issue, and getting banned after a bit of an argument.
 

worthlesspeon

Member
Jun 10, 2017
190
443
FWIW I can easily see someone just not mentioning that they're deaf and asking for help without even thinking that might be the issue, and getting banned after a bit of an argument.
FWIW I wasn't banned, I voluntarily left after I decided the community wasn't for me.

And in this particular case, it was more someone specifically offering help if that particular disability caused an issue for future events, and that is what Selebus reacted pretty aggressively against. Like it's one thing to design your game in a particular way (even if I think it's poor design), but it's another to threaten those who want to help others access the game.
 

Pr0man

Member
Jul 23, 2017
407
817
It can, but the expectations thrust upon users of this site already vastly differ from what this game delivers.

Take the story vs porn issue. There have been several cases where people have said there isn't enough or they complain about why it is only animated when there is no need to focus on the story. This is because, while F95 is technically a general use game pirating forum, it mainly contains porn games and most of those thrust the player into sex scenes quickly and very often if sex scenes are not the only thing the game has to offer at all. Meanwhile, this game focuses largely on the story with porn taking a back seat to the point where it could have been easily stripped away with almost zero actual issue. It would have changed the story in several areas, but not much.

Then there's the way the actual story goes, some people go into this game expecting another of the usual Koikatsu VNs, not expecting the Denpa element, and then get scared off when it hits hard and fast. Not everyone can take Denpa style horror and those who can't typically nope right out of the game within the first couple of scenes of that nature.

Those are vast expectation vs reality checks for anyone coming into this game.
Ah yes, the issue of "porn vs story" that I have seen crop up in some games' argumentation...

I honestly never understood that one to be fair, so please bear with me here. From what I have noticed, when it comes to adult VNs at least, there always seems to be some form of "degree" to the distribution of content - some games focus more heavily on the story, others more heavily on the porn aspect with the other aspect taking the backseat in turn. Meaning the range of available games that fit your needs should be broad enough for such an argumentation to not even be existing in the first place? At least that is how I feel about it, but I guess I'm also not a developer, or invested enough in the genre to make such a statement in the first place.
At least I try to not go into a game and expect it to go all-in on one way or the other, but I guess that's just idealistic.
 
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forbiddentwo

Member
Jun 20, 2017
337
163
Ah yes, the issue of "porn vs story" that I have seen crop up in some games' argumentation...

I honestly never understood that one to be fair, so please bear with me here. From what I have noticed, when it comes to adult VNs at least, there always seems to be some form of "degree" to the distribution of content - some games focus more heavily on the story, others more heavily on the porn aspect with the other aspect taking the backseat in turn. Meaning the range of available games that fit your needs should be broad enough for such an argumentation to not even be existing in the first place?
Honestly that isn't true, but not in the way that I think you mean. It feels like there are vanishingly few games that will actually deal with taboos as taboos. I mentioned this before, but:


Stuff like that has more of an impact when you're engrossed in the game.

I'm just relieved to finally find a game that touches on taboo subject matter that actually treats it as somewhat taboo. I get that it isn't exactly realistic but contrast it with something like Love Sweets, where you just drift into banging your sister with nary a thought, and when you come out to everyone they go "yeah we kinda figured based on how you're acting" and then you go straight to happily ever after...


Hey does anyone know how to trigger the new happy scene?
You just need to do all of the stuff in the special room. Win the lottery using info I am too lazy to scroll up and copy paste. It's a bit higher up in this thread.
 
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forbiddentwo

Member
Jun 20, 2017
337
163
Incidentally where is the 'cheater' boolean? I re-watched the most recent happy scene but due to the way the replay system works
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I can't find it in the save editors I've tried.
 

Bingoogus

Engaged Member
Sep 5, 2021
2,957
7,190
Great, another puzzle... cue the uninterested, the lazy, the disabled and those who cannot figure out the moon logic the dev was using all asking for help and getting the hinters, the purists, the trolls and smug elitists all taking the opportunity to either offer no help or frustratingly laborious help that has an incredibly high noise to signal ratio. Cue all of that happening 50 times over as each person from the first category comes in and their question is lost to an entire page from the second category.
Between the quoted post and this quoting post, you can see EXACTLY what i was talking about.
my only point was how it's always a shitshow and i'm not looking forward to it.
 

alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
7,716
4,454
Sorta kinda pretty much very big v23p2 spoiler:
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Kind of already figured something would happen involving her, it was foreshadowed. "There Is Nothing" is an old event and one of the first puzzles to be added, the answers were actually provided in events before that and in the audio of the event itself.

Am I the only one who likes the sex scenes? I guess I wouldn't without all the lead up, in the same way that there are Japanese games that I didn't like when I couldn't read the text but that I appreciate now. The raw mechanical action isn't the attraction, you can get plenty of that everywhere.

Also am I the only one whose primary exposure to H games was getting fucking traumatized ordering games from J-list that turned out to be utsuge? Maybe that's why I'm so okay with this?
No, I do as well, the sex scenes are pretty good and fit pretty well into the story. I was not exposed to the same J-list experience, 100% of my porn game collection is pirated using torrents, though that's entirely due to not having any other way because almost all of it is unavailable or was at the time where I live through legitimate means.

Huh. Is it just me or is there no replay option for the first new Touka scene? I checked to see if maybe it was registered as a Tsukasa scene but nope.
That could be a bug or an oversight, probably the former since he has been pretty good about adding them to the replay function.

Losing money is the only feedback these type of people take, which is why I hope for that. If he loses enough money, then the game design might actually change for the better. If he wants to keep making his "art" despite losses of revenue, then more power to him.



Sound is a part of the experience, but until you get to that event, it is absolutely not clear that the sound isn't just part of setting the mood but instead physically required to progress. Most deaf people can hear well enough to still experience music. What they cannot necessarily do is decipher already difficult to understand voices, especially when its volume is not separately adjustable from the volume. The game gives you no warning that this is necessary. And even during the event, if you happen to have trouble hearing the voice - there is no way to realize that the instructions given by the voice are key to progressing. And then when you ask for help on the discord, you're met with a "my game, my rules, I don't give a fuck if you can't play".

So yeah, I'd say he's ableist. I'm sorry you're too enamored with the guy to see that.


I'm not talking about the replay function (which is not a legitimate way to lookup answers when there is zero guidance whatsoever), but rather the ability to look through the script. It would be trivial to make the answers impossible to lookup (more difficult, though not impossible to make it impossible to modify the script to ignore the puzzles altogether).
Actually, losing money only works on primarily money driven projects, but this is a self admitted passion project that we are just lucky enough to share the experience of. Also, you are likely in a minority with your issues with this game as he has said no to every attempt to change his vision. That right there is what drove me to support him, nobody should be able to change a creator's vision except the creator and Selebus is adamantly of the same mind on that.

Sound is part of the experience for the entire game. There is music throughout the game that plays a very big part in setting the correct mood, the same way music in movies does. It should be on in the first place and that is the mentality the game is being made with. This has been beaten into a bloody pulp already, if you cannot hear the cue in events with an audio answer, the game simply is not for you. Selebus has the mentality that all creators should, their vision, their game, their way, and he voices this unabashedly on the Discord, something I like about his development style because it means nobody is going to drive him away from the game he wants.

I'm not "too enamored" to see that, it's just a fact, nobody on the internet has to do anything for the disabled and nobody should be forced away from what they want to create, including Selebus, but I do mean anybody.

Actually, the replay function is just as legitimate as going through the game and getting the answers the first time, so that argument is literally saying that playing the game is not a legitimate way to solve the puzzles in it, which in turn is saying that playing the game is not a legitimate way to play the game. Looking through the script is literally cheating, not playing the game, and is not a legitimate way to play the game. There are ways to obfuscate the scripts so they cannot be read as well as a few other tricks to prevent any illegitimate play.

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Indeed, this does hint that we may be getting to the point of starting down the path to Maya in earnest.

Putting the whole validity of '-isms' for the moment, I literally just hopped on the discord for the game and searched for 'deaf' and found him saying that if you're deaf it's okay to ask for help.
Yes, he has never said asking isn't okay, it's mainly the player base outside of F95 that does the no help thing. I also agree with that sentiment, feel free to ask, just know that I do have conditions for me to provide solutions.

Perhaps he's had a change of heart since I left the discord. Last thing I remember is someone offering to help if a similar situation were to come up again, and him basically shooting that down and threatening bans if anyone were to do that.
He's trying to prevent outright spoilers so people actually play the game instead of just riding on the answers provided by other players. It is a game, it is meant to be played, and some people try to treat it like a kinetic novel. I can see how that would be aggravating for a developer who is putting his heart and soul into this project.

FWIW I can easily see someone just not mentioning that they're deaf and asking for help without even thinking that might be the issue, and getting banned after a bit of an argument.
I can as well, there are people who want to play the game on a free ride and Selebus isn't having it, so when there is no issue like deafness mentioned, he can't exactly just say 'the person might be deaf and might be asking because of it,' the only real assumption to make off of the given information is that the person is asking for a free ride off the answers of another player like a student who didn't study asking the guy next to him to give his test answers.

Ah yes, the issue of "porn vs story" that I have seen crop up in some games' argumentation...

I honestly never understood that one to be fair, so please bear with me here. From what I have noticed, when it comes to adult VNs at least, there always seems to be some form of "degree" to the distribution of content - some games focus more heavily on the story, others more heavily on the porn aspect with the other aspect taking the backseat in turn. Meaning the range of available games that fit your needs should be broad enough for such an argumentation to not even be existing in the first place? At least that is how I feel about it, but I guess I'm also not a developer, or invested enough in the genre to make such a statement in the first place.
At least I try to not go into a game and expect it to go all-in on one way or the other, but I guess that's just idealistic.
That's right, however, all of that said, the distribution specifically on F95 is heavily on the porn focus side and that leads to an expectation of more porn than story in a lot of people. I go in with no expectations and I form my expectations, if I feel the game deserves to stay on my computer, based on what I see in my first time playing.

Honestly that isn't true, but not in the way that I think you mean. It feels like there are vanishingly few games that will actually deal with taboos as taboos. I mentioned this before, but:








You just need to do all of the stuff in the special room. Win the lottery using info I am too lazy to scroll up and copy paste. It's a bit higher up in this thread.
Yes and no, it is actually true in terms of the quantity of sex scenes and the quality of writing, but you are correct with taboos, most games do not handle them as they are, as taboos. Most handle them like "Oh look at me, I'm banging my sister/mother/teacher" and leave it at that.

Does anyone else think that
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That has been theorized, but I think that may have more to do with the accident and their deaths making her a bit unstable mentally and we are just then seeing it.
 
Oct 31, 2018
28
95
Since a mod hasn't updated the main post from the update request post yet over the last few hours, I'll link the changelog here as well:

Remember, no refunds.


Version 0.23.0 Part 2 is now available to all $5 subscribers!
No refunds allowed.
Changelog is as follows:
- 50k+ Words
- 400+ Images
- 16 New Events
- 3 Main Events
- 4 Touka Events
- 4 Ami Events
- 2 Kaori Events
- 2 Tsubasa Events
- New Music
- Fixes/Changes for Older Content

---------------------------------------------------------
FULL GAME
PC -
/ /
MAC - / /
---------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE PATCH - / /


1647823071078.png


 

alex2011

Conversation Conqueror
Feb 28, 2017
7,716
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Don’t forget to archive this version for posterity as the last version with the chu~ scene intact in the flow of the game ;).
Still going to miss that scene in the main story, at least we'll still be able to see it, but it won't quite be the same. I am also unsure how badly Ayane's entire character will be affected as this is definitely going to diminish the impact of the first beach event if he diminishes her forwardness.
 
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