Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.42.0] [Selebus]

[KnowNoHope]

I recall Noriko saying that "creepy old apartment of yours", but nothing about him renting it for tutoring. Also can't find the Niki basement monologue you're referring to. Could have missed it though.

I will say she never called it an apartment in that event.

Spoiler: crumbling building

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but if you want me to search for a specific frame for a specific line, nah, i dont have anywhere near the patience for it, though i do periodically go through each girls events one by one, I legit can't be bothered to write down each event that corresponds to a theory. ( I really hate how difficult it is to find things in this game, i know someone suggested a really good idea for the wiki where you can search events by who is in them and you can add multiple people to the search... that would be fantastic. there are also scenes/frames being cut out of these replay events now for several updates which bothers me too)
the niki's basement thing i'm not entirely sure what he said in his thoughts, just alluded to his tutoring days he cant remember and compared it to what niki is doing.

 

[Bingoogus]

i know someone suggested a really good idea for the wiki where you can search events by who is in them and you can add multiple people to the search

That was me, and yes, i know it's surprising for my dumb ass to come up with such a good idea, but as i do enjoy self deprecating myself, allow me to diminish any garnered esteem by saying i got the idea from Gelbooru, any booru really, adding tags and minusing out others for ever more specific porn entirely changed the way i thought about categorising and searching systems, before that you basically just had 'search for futa hentai and dig for hours to find something good', now it's 'ah, so you want stretched-anus creampie aftersex bondage latex doctor medical-examination femdom? Alright, here you go'.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Trying to not focus on one particular theory is hard. I personally feel like we are still missing a good amount to really start solving things but..
In the Ask Sel section on discord someone asked "Is there still a major secret that you think we should have figured out by now?"
And Sel said "A bunch of them but most people refuse to move on from theories they've grown attached to"

I've got dozens, if not hundreds, of theories, some abandoned, some explicitly disproven in-game (the old pregnancy theory). The pregnancy theory getting bombed in-game made it clear that it's better to have a list of possible theories and continually come up with new ones than ride-or-die on a single one.

So now I just throw shit at the walls and see what sticks. Tomorrow, I'll insist that whoever thinks Ami's been repeatedly killing Akira is a god-damned moron and that it's really the Noriko doing it. Or something. The theorizing is the fun bit. Being right -- if that ever happens -- will just be a bonus.

 

[barglenarglezous]

but if you want me to search for a specific frame for a specific line, nah, i dont have anywhere near the patience for it, though i do periodically go through each girls events one by one, I legit can't be bothered to write down each event that corresponds to a theory. ( I really hate how difficult it is to find things in this game, i know someone suggested a really good idea for the wiki where you can search events by who is in them and you can add multiple people to the search... that would be fantastic. there are also scenes/frames being cut out of these replay events now for several updates which bothers me too)
the niki's basement thing i'm not entirely sure what he said in his thoughts, just alluded to his tutoring days he cant remember and compared it to what niki is doing.

Even with that function, half the content in newer events is not available in Replay anyway because of flag-dependent dialogue.

 

[KnowNoHope]

I've got dozens, if not hundreds, of theories, some abandoned, some explicitly disproven in-game (the old pregnancy theory). The pregnancy theory getting bombed in-game made it clear that it's better to have a list of possible theories and continually come up with new ones than ride-or-die on a single one.

So now I just throw shit at the walls and see what sticks. Tomorrow, I'll insist that whoever thinks Ami's been repeatedly killing Akira is a god-damned moron and that it's really the Noriko doing it. Or something. The theorizing is the fun bit. Being right -- if that ever happens -- will just be a bonus.

ami is repeatedly killing akira?
I mean my theory was just the one time
i'm interested in this though
I recall some of my bad theories... now to be fair... these were made more to piss people off and cause i thought they were hilarious than any real attempt to make a theory
Mathew theory- there is a guy named Mathew in the game, and he hangs out in front of the school... every damn day and he spouts coded numbered messages... can you figure out what mathew is trying to tell us?
Sana has a penis theory- i was really proud over how bad this one was while at the same time still being plausible up till sel showing her down under. I have never been happier to have a theory destroyed like this one. I'm also kinda happy and dissapointed that i think this theory actually made sel overhaul a bunch of lines for sana/sarah in the rework that could've been taken as suggestive. when i did my first skip replay to catch up do to my first missed event since playing the game the amount of stops on sarah and sana after the remake were huge implying changed dialogue

 

[KnowNoHope]

Even with that function, half the content in newer events is not available in Replay anyway because of flag-dependent dialogue.

yeah...
thats what i meant by the cutting of content... thanks for putting it in more technical terms.

 

[Bingoogus]

That's where my beloved URM comes in handy, you can just select the branch you don't have the flag for and violin, game acts as though you do.

 

[derekthered56]

The only theory I really have confidence in anymore is the one Bingoogus mentioned a few pages back, that Sensei has a large penis.
I'm like 90% sure that's true.

 

[Bingoogus]

The only theory I really have confidence in anymore is the one Bingoogus mentioned a few pages back, that Sensei has a large penis.
I'm like 90% sure that's true.

Fuck me... it's a sad day when i'm the only one with a credible theory...

 

[BlackDays]

Sel does that thing where he incorporates player theories and god knows what else (from players).
The plant council discussion about where "some people" still think "her" name is not "Sekai" (Forgot event name).
And the last one i remember, because it was recently, was Sara's "Halfway Down the Wishing Well".
The theory that this is all a simulation and the girls are fragments/parts of just a couple of real persons, is my backup theory.
And i don't remember anyone coming up with the same almost exact theory, while i also don't think it is impossible someone else did.

There are a couple of resons why Sel does things like that.
Of course he could do that just out of spite.
Maybe he wants to narrow peoples theories down to guide them somewhere.
Or to confuse us.
Could even be a marketing strategy like: Whats the best way to get your players attached to your work (story)? Integrate them.
I think something like the marketing thing (or something similar) might have been part of his education.

I'm almost certain that Lil is also Sel's way to observe certain things about people.

Theorizing can be fun but i also don't really do it seriously anymore and just throw in some stuff where i see fit, or to correct people in a hopefully polite way.
And while we're at it.

Akira is a girl!

 

[barglenarglezous]

Sel does that thing where he incorporates player theories and god knows what else (from players).
The plant council discussion about where "some people" still think "her" name is not "Sekai" (Forgot event name).
And the last one i remember, because it was recently, was Sara's "Halfway Down the Wishing Well".
The theory that this is all a simulation and the girls are fragments/parts of just a couple of real persons, is my backup theory.
And i don't remember anyone coming up with the same almost exact theory, while i also don't think it is impossible someone else did.

I suggested back before the 2nd floor was fully populated that each dorm room might only represent one person, and the two girls living in that room were the left and right hemispheres of that persons brain. This is why every dorm room has a yin/yang vibe to it, and the recurring discussion about the movie where the characters are eating grey food is a hint to nudge us into thinking about brain tissue.

Simulation theory has come up quite often. Some dismiss it because "we're told it's not a game," but that's not the same thing. Some simulations exist purely to be observed, not interacted with. I personally want it to NOT be a simulation, because Simulation Theory falls into the "It was all a dream/None of it was real" bucket of "weak-ass tropes people shouldn't use"

 

[fdsasdf_p]

I think Maya's misinterpreting what happened when he "reset." Just like she misinterpreted what was causing his blackouts.

She thinks the blackouts are caused by memories. They're not. They're caused by the angels. His blackouts happen whenever he gets touched by one of the angels (as we see in the scene leading up to Toys).

The angels are using the blackouts to make him behave as the new Nozomu (who literally seems to be in charge during the Sara rape scene, even saying that women are just fleshlights to him), but when Ami finds out about it -- well, we see how she is.

I think he resets when Ami catches him and kills him.

In addition to misinterpreting the cause of resetting Sensei, for a long while I also don't think Maya saying past Senseis being "the fake Senseis" is entirely true. What criteria did she use to make judgement like that to begin with if none of them survived long enough? (did something out of character? if anything this current real one surprised Maya the most I feel like)

An ongoing in-game concept is that memory is one of the most defining traits of a person, so every previous Sensei not being the real Sensei might as well be because they started as just tiny a fragment of the 100% Akira, and not because literal someone else was in the body. In a nutshell, every previous Sensei was the real Sensei; however, and they never retrieved enough themselves back and thus never got the chance to be the real Sensei in Maya's eye before meeting their early doom.

yeah, that's fairly solid, but maya does say she straight up broke several iterations of him in the past. though i guess if we are going with the Maya being an angel theory as well then that would make some sort of sense.
i understand not giving us all the answers right away and whatnot, but the fact that in a lot of the blackout scenes theres no hint of angels around..
I do agree that Ami almost certainly has something to do with him being reset. or whoever exactly is in control of her there.

Trying to not focus on one particular theory is hard. I personally feel like we are still missing a good amount to really start solving things but..
In the Ask Sel section on discord someone asked "Is there still a major secret that you think we should have figured out by now?"
And Sel said "A bunch of them but most people refuse to move on from theories they've grown attached to"

As we slowly ruled out the cause of hard resets, the only remaining possibilities for resetting Sensei I can think of are:

- Key memory related to a very specific past that has not been covered yet
(Sensei can learn about Niki's love, his mom's name, and even Sekai's death spot with mind hiccups, but he lived through them. The only thing we still couldn't learn more about is Maya's past entanglement)

- In World of Lines, it said "The past itself isn't dangerous. It's the way it makes you feel that is." I.e., it's about if Sensei regains enough of himself or not, or is mentally ready to face a certain somethingor not.
(in a way you can say "if the truth was revealed to a real or a fake Sensei")

- Ayane and Ami can sprinkle some extremely minor details about the past, and it's all fine; the Nakayamas can make some big reveals, and it's kinda fine. However, whatever Maya does will just break him because it's from her in a supernatural sense (which aligns with the idea of this looping world being her unbeknownst punishment).

That's why I think "Maya breaking several iterations" and "blackout/reset caused by Angels" might not be entirely orthogonal. All Senseis are constantly being hovered over by angels s and k, and causing blackouts when the time is right. And when they see Maya "make a move" (either revealing too much to him, or straight up fucking him), angels mingle with his mind to "course-correct" SO HARD that previous Senseis who were unfortunately enough to experience it hyperventilated and died.

As for Ami's potential role in resetting Sensei, for now still isn't clear for me, but it won't be surprising if she is involved.
(though with the limited clues we have she being the actual cause is a little Deus ex machina for me; I am too much of a technicality person I admit)

Speculation of course! and there's no saying that there is only one way to reset him.

 

[BlackDays]

I suggested back before the 2nd floor was fully populated that each dorm room might only represent one person, and the two girls living in that room were the left and right hemispheres of that persons brain. This is why every dorm room has a yin/yang vibe to it, and the recurring discussion about the movie where the characters are eating grey food is a hint to nudge us into thinking about brain tissue.

Simulation theory has come up quite often. Some dismiss it because "we're told it's not a game," but that's not the same thing. Some simulations exist purely to be observed, not interacted with. I personally want it to NOT be a simulation, because Simulation Theory falls into the "It was all a dream/None of it was real" bucket of "weak-ass tropes people shouldn't use"

Interesting.

Mine was more like most (if not all) girls are either part of Sensei or Maya and maybe a third. Nowadays maybe a 4th (relating to the gods).
(In general it was about Akira being forced to confront his own mental issues represented as the girls so he could face them "in person")
I also never saw someone come up with the grey food being a metaphor for grey matter/brain tissue, besides me, before.
But as i said, some people (you) might have the same ideas, and i just never saw that.
Same goes for the Miku was part of "the" car crash, hence her trauma thing. (While meanwhile that theory seems to have gotten around.)

 

[derekthered56]

I suggested back before the 2nd floor was fully populated that each dorm room might only represent one person, and the two girls living in that room were the left and right hemispheres of that persons brain. This is why every dorm room has a yin/yang vibe to it, and the recurring discussion about the movie where the characters are eating grey food is a hint to nudge us into thinking about brain tissue.

I don't like the "every character is a fragment of Akira/Maya's mind" theory, and while this is slightly better I still think everyone is too fleshed out to be just a fragment of someone else. The roommates migt have a yin/yang vibe, but their personalities and backstories are mutually exclusive. We'd end the game meeting a bunch of new characters that vaguely resemble characters we know and care about, which seems kind of like an unsatisfying "none of it was real" ending.

Simulation theory has come up quite often. Some dismiss it because "we're told it's not a game," but that's not the same thing. Some simulations exist purely to be observed, not interacted with. I personally want it to NOT be a simulation, because Simulation Theory falls into the "It was all a dream/None of it was real" bucket of "weak-ass tropes people shouldn't use"

Not a fan of the Matrix?
I feel like the trouble with "it was all a dream" endings is that they reduce the plot to just a thing that happened with no purpose. In the Simulation theory, the gods and angels that are causing all the problems are still real entities with real motivations, and the trouble they're causing would still matter. It's just that they'd be doing all that through computers instead of magic.
I'm not super down on the theory but it does fit all the weird language about Users and such.

In addition to misinterpreting the cause of resetting Sensei, for a long while I also don't think Maya saying past Senseis being "the fake Senseis" is entirely true. What criteria did she use to make judgement like that to begin with if none of them survived long enough? (did something out of character? if anything this current real one surprised Maya the most I feel like)

An ongoing in-game concept is that memory is one of the most defining traits of a person, so every previous Sensei not being the real Sensei might as well be because they started as just tiny a fragment of the 100% Akira, and not because literal someone else was in the body. In a nutshell, every previous Sensei was the real Sensei; however, and they never retrieved enough themselves back and thus never got the chance to be the real Sensei in Maya's eye before meeting their early doom.

Back when Maya was stuck in a dream during the reset, she also called the dream Sensei a fake. It could actually have been a fake designed to fuck with her, but I took it as a memory of the real Sensei. Something he said was so shocking that Maya just pretended it wasn't really him. Back then that probably meant pretending Noriko manipulated him into saying it, but once the supernatural loops started happening she decided that Senseis who didn't act the way she expected weren't really him.
Not exactly rational on her part but I don't think she's ever been as rational as she pretends to be.

 

[barglenarglezous]

- In World of Lines, it said "The past itself isn't dangerous. It's the way it makes you feel that is." I.e., it's about if Sensei regains enough of himself or not, or is mentally ready to face a certain somethingor not.
(in a way you can say "if the truth was revealed to a real or a fake Sensei")

<snipping the stuff I'm not responding to>

As for Ami's potential role in resetting Sensei, for now still isn't clear for me, but it won't be surprising if she is involved.
(though with the limited clues we have she being the actual cause is a little Deus ex machina for me; I am too much of a technicality person I admit)

Your first point aligns with what Touka says when giving him the apartment -- the he needs to be better about confronting and expressing his emotions instead of retreating from them and distracting himself with the girls, while the angels are steering him into a less considerate version of the "fuck all of them" path he's on. He never really found a healthy outlet for his trauma, so he's repeating it -- and passing that trauma onto a new generation.

With regards to Ami - we know she behaves differently during resets than anyone else. In the most recent reset, we see the girls T-posing once the process begins, but in the reset prior, when Akira and Ayane go to find Maya, Ami's in the room with her, facing the corner. She's not T-posing at all. She hasn't disappeared. She's there. She seems to be outside the process, or undergoing a seperate process entirely. The rules appear to be affecting her differently.

 

[barglenarglezous]

Same goes for the Miku was part of "the" car crash, hence her trauma thing. (While meanwhile that theory seems to have gotten around.)

I think Miku and Kaori were both in that crash, actually.

 

[barglenarglezous]

I don't like the "every character is a fragment of Akira/Maya's mind" theory, and while this is slightly better I still think everyone is too fleshed out to be just a fragment of someone else. The roommates migt have a yin/yang vibe, but their personalities and backstories are mutually exclusive. We'd end the game meeting a bunch of new characters that vaguely resemble characters we know and care about, which seems kind of like an unsatisfying "none of it was real" ending.

Yeah, that was an old theory and I don't really think it holds much weight. Floor 2 doesn't really have that same feel, so it kinda unravelled as more characters were introduced.

Not a fan of the Matrix?

Matrix establishes the simulation in the first reel, and the entire conflict of the film is breaking free of the simulation. That's not the trope I'm talking about.

"It was a simulation this whole time" as an endstage reveal is the issue I have with it. If you're gonna set the game in a simulationi and have the conflict be about breaking free from it, do what Matrix did and make that explicit in the first act.

Back when Maya was stuck in a dream during the reset, she also called the dream Sensei a fake. It could actually have been a fake designed to fuck with her, but I took it as a memory of the real Sensei. Something he said was so shocking that Maya just pretended it wasn't really him. Back then that probably meant pretending Noriko manipulated him into saying it, but once the supernatural loops started happening she decided that Senseis who didn't act the way she expected weren't really him.
Not exactly rational on her part but I don't think she's ever been as rational as she pretends to be.

The version of Maya that's having that outburst is aware of resets and the challenges that are faced when trying to get to the rooftop. She knows she's in a trap, which is why she can say with total confidence that he's fake. She can't break free from the trap, and is starting to panic.

I also think it reflects on Maya's insecurity. She feels threatened by Noriko, she probably felt threatened by Noriko back then, too, and this is likely a memory of an actual outburst she had back in those days that damaged her relationship with Akira for a while -- which makes it perfect fodder for the powers that drive these reset challenges trying to trap her. She lost herself in the memory and insecurity, and had Akira and Ayane not shown up to pull her out, she would have been lost in it forever.

 

[k1n5l4y3r]

Your first point aligns with what Touka says when giving him the apartment -- the he needs to be better about confronting and expressing his emotions instead of retreating from them and distracting himself with the girls, while the angels are steering him into a less considerate version of the "fuck all of them" path he's on. He never really found a healthy outlet for his trauma, so he's repeating it -- and passing that trauma onto a new generation.

With regards to Ami - we know she behaves differently during resets than anyone else. In the most recent reset, we see the girls T-posing once the process begins, but in the reset prior, when Akira and Ayane go to find Maya, Ami's in the room with her, facing the corner. She's not T-posing at all. She hasn't disappeared. She's there. She seems to be outside the process, or undergoing a seperate process entirely. The rules appear to be affecting her differently.

In the resets everyone goes through different events, not only Ami, you can see that Akira and Tsuneyo don't even notice the girls are acting strange when Tsuneyo is leaving, or that there is strange things in the background. The shift between realities seems to affect everything in a different rate, that is why Ayane can't see Maya but Akira can in the other reset, because their realities were aligned.

 

[ccxvidonaferens]

"It was a simulation this whole time" as an endstage reveal is the issue I have with it. If you're gonna set the game in a simulationi and have the conflict be about breaking free from it, do what Matrix did and make that explicit in the first act.

Like wasn't there a whole year of Dallas that turned out to be a dream or something back in the day.

 

[BlackDays]

I think Miku and Kaori were both in that crash, actually.

As do i. A loose theory of mine was that maybe little Kaori was playing with a spider in her parents car while they where driving, and it shocked and distracted the driver (probably her mom) which led to the car crash.
But that contradicts what im thinking nowadays, where Kaori is involved with Nao.