Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.43.0] [Selebus]

[hario1225]

I am containing myself so much

LessonsInDissonance:

 

[hernestojavier621]

Oh shit 3 days left, where did this month go? Could've sworn it was like the middle july yet.

 

[Moonflare]

To actually add something to the conversation, specifically about this part from Moonflare's earlier post:

In an event I can't remember, Yuki talks about the accident that hospitalized Kaori. I think she says that her "family died in the same accident" or something along those lines. It's really vague wording but I guess it is possible Kaori and her family were in the other car?

On a related note, does Yuki ever say anything about her siblings? She's mention her parents before but nothing else I think. I'm just wondering if Kaori is a niece from her side of the family or from Yumi's dad.


Well, gotta make my first post somewhere and might as well do it in a thread I've been lurking in for months. Could've maybe done it in a way that wasn't "well ackshully" during a discussion, I'll admit.

I have wondered about that as well, and I'd say it's more likely that Kaori's family was related to Yuki. That's because the hospital tells Kaori everyone is dead, and even though the Yakuza is the Yakuza, I very much doubt they'd leave family behind.

It'd make more sense that the hospital tried to contact a next of kin and if the next of kin was Yuki, she was missing from her junkie days, thus "there was no one else" = everyone is dead.

Tragically, that would also mean Yuki has abandoned two potential daughters instead of one (she'd have become Kaori's legal guardian as well if she was around at the time).

 

[barglenarglezous]

Spoiler: My take on First contact and the narrator

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"O world" is a common poetic device, usually addressing an absent party that isn't the reader. Usually, it's God, or the gods, or some higher power. In this case, I think Sel is doing a play on the translation of Sekai (Sekai = World), and this can be interpreted as "Oh, Sekai, in our final moment together, please tell me why. Why did it have to be Nozomu?"

Now whether this is meant to mean "why did you marry him" or "why are you dying alongside him and not me" is debatable. I suspect it's the latter, that his anguish over living without Sekai in his life is so great he would have rather died in the crash in lieu of his brother.

As O World is a poetic device, the other candidates for narrators invoking it would be Sekai (a poet) or Ami (a developing poet learning through study of her mother's work), as well as Akira himself. Yasu using it to invoke her gods/the gods also makes a lot of sense.

But in this specific instance, Akira is speaking to Sekai herself through this poetic device.

 

[skwada]

Now whether this is meant to mean "why did you marry him" or "why are you dying alongside him and not me" is debatable. I suspect it's the latter, that his anguish over living without Sekai in his life is so great he would have rather died in the crash in lieu of his brother.

Ya I always interpreted that line as "I wish *I* had died with you instead of him"

 

[Bingoogus]

You know, something about Sekai i've never really understood is how she stuck with Akira as he grew up, from everything we know about her and her writing, she saw in him an opportunity to finally satisfy her pedophilic appetite... but she was still with him into adulthood... you'd think things would've gradually faded as he moved out of her interest range, the fact we know she first started lusting for him when he was less than 9 months old should suggest her interests were fully in the prepubescent zone so why didn't she groom a new victim? It's not like her appetite would go away even if she could still find satisfaction in adult Akira, she'd still lust for young boys... i feel like i could throw several arguments or hypothetical explanations in to plug the gaps but it's all just conjecture and again, regardless of what argument i use, she's still a pedo, she should still have pedo lusts that would be going unquenched and after having had years of that hunger being fed... could she really go on without looking for another?

In that regard i feel Sekai is underdeveloped as a character, she works in the story only as a mechanism to explain Akira and his pedophilic grooming behaviour, as a consequence she comes across as more of an Akira-sexual than a common pedo.

 

[Riolol]

You know, something about Sekai i've never really understood is how she stuck with Akira as he grew up, from everything we know about her and her writing, she saw in him an opportunity to finally satisfy her pedophilic appetite... but she was still with him into adulthood... you'd think things would've gradually faded as he moved out of her interest range, the fact we know she first started lusting for him when he was less than 9 months old should suggest her interests were fully in the prepubescent zone so why didn't she groom a new victim? It's not like her appetite would go away even if she could still find satisfaction in adult Akira, she'd still lust for young boys... i feel like i could throw several arguments or hypothetical explanations in to plug the gaps but it's all just conjecture and again, regardless of what argument i use, she's still a pedo, she should still have pedo lusts that would be going unquenched and after having had years of that hunger being fed... could she really go on without looking for another?

In that regard i feel Sekai is underdeveloped as a character, she works in the story only as a mechanism to explain Akira and his pedophilic grooming behaviour, as a consequence she comes across as more of an Akira-sexual than a common pedo.

My guess is she viewed him as her twisted work of art, she groomed him for years until he was as fucked as she was, now he's doing the same to others. That would probably be satisfaction enough for her. Also we don't know she didn't have other boys on the side.

 

[Moonflare]

You know, something about Sekai i've never really understood is how she stuck with Akira as he grew up, from everything we know about her and her writing, she saw in him an opportunity to finally satisfy her pedophilic appetite... but she was still with him into adulthood... you'd think things would've gradually faded as he moved out of her interest range, the fact we know she first started lusting for him when he was less than 9 months old should suggest her interests were fully in the prepubescent zone so why didn't she groom a new victim? It's not like her appetite would go away even if she could still find satisfaction in adult Akira, she'd still lust for young boys... i feel like i could throw several arguments or hypothetical explanations in to plug the gaps but it's all just conjecture and again, regardless of what argument i use, she's still a pedo, she should still have pedo lusts that would be going unquenched and after having had years of that hunger being fed... could she really go on without looking for another?

In that regard i feel Sekai is underdeveloped as a character, she works in the story only as a mechanism to explain Akira and his pedophilic grooming behaviour, as a consequence she comes across as more of an Akira-sexual than a common pedo.

Well, that's the big question, isn't it? Sekai was a pedophile (in the truest sense of the word), but we don't know enough to say she was just a pedophile. She clearly came from a broken family and was never able to find happiness before Akira (see "Something everyone knows and ignores"). If it ended there it'd be one thing, but she was also happy and even loved Ami more than him. That seems to suggest that there is a possibility she truly loved Akira, and if that is true, then it was also her first love.

That's enough to theorize why she'd have stuck with him, out of genuine care and affection (albeit in a twisted and unhealthy way), or from a more perverse "keeping up with her project and solo-focused in her pedophilia/grooming him into another Sekai". We just don't know enough about her, and at the moment I don't believe in her affection tbh (even though she says if Akira had grown up she'd have left with him to go around the world - presumably leaving Nozomu - which I really don't believe).

Edit: In regards to Riolol, I don't believe she had anyone else while she was with Akira (other than Nozomu). That's half of the reason he was special to her, and would have become doubly so being the father of her child (the thing she loved most in the world). Might have been planning to have him become a Sekai by abusing Ami, and calling it love, wouldn't put it past her.

Edit2: NAO also says that both Sekai and Akira called what they felt "love" (see "Mother's milk"). And if NAO knows what she's saying, and if we take Akira as a measure for Sekai, then Sekai truly believed she loved him (which would indicate that maybe she wasn't acting perverse out of satisfaction for being perverse, but more so that she was twisted enough to feel she was doing a good thing, even though rationally she probably understood she wasn't, hence only preying on Akira, who she had more control over) - cause Akira truly thinks he loved her (even though rationally he's able to deduce why he shouldn't - see "Stomachache").

 

[apostolodieros]

You know, something about Sekai i've never really understood is how she stuck with Akira as he grew up, from everything we know about her and her writing, she saw in him an opportunity to finally satisfy her pedophilic appetite... but she was still with him into adulthood... you'd think things would've gradually faded as he moved out of her interest range, the fact we know she first started lusting for him when he was less than 9 months old should suggest her interests were fully in the prepubescent zone so why didn't she groom a new victim? It's not like her appetite would go away even if she could still find satisfaction in adult Akira, she'd still lust for young boys... i feel like i could throw several arguments or hypothetical explanations in to plug the gaps but it's all just conjecture and again, regardless of what argument i use, she's still a pedo, she should still have pedo lusts that would be going unquenched and after having had years of that hunger being fed... could she really go on without looking for another?

In that regard i feel Sekai is underdeveloped as a character, she works in the story only as a mechanism to explain Akira and his pedophilic grooming behaviour, as a consequence she comes across as more of an Akira-sexual than a common pedo.

If we base ourselves on the writing "lolita" the protagonist was not a simple pedophile, in fact he was only interested in Dolores because she reminded him of the girl he had lost at a young age. For all we know there may be a deeper reason why Sekai was interested in Akira.
but mine is just an idea.

 

[DeSkel15]

To actually add something to the conversation, specifically about this part from Moonflare's earlier post:

In an event I can't remember, Yuki talks about the accident that hospitalized Kaori. I think she says that her "family died in the same accident" or something along those lines. It's really vague wording but I guess it is possible Kaori and her family were in the other car?

On a related note, does Yuki ever say anything about her siblings? She's mention her parents before but nothing else I think. I'm just wondering if Kaori is a niece from her side of the family or from Yumi's dad.

Considering Yuki never seemed to marry Yumi's dad, it's likely that one of Kaori's parents were her sibling. Kaori wouldn't actually be her niece otherwise, and Yuki tends to say that they are related instead of related by marriage, etc.

I don't recall if It's stated which of Kaori's parents were related to Yuki, but they definitely seem to have died while Kaori survived...sort of:

Spoiler

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Kaori definitely didn't seem to come out of it unscathed, and I'm not entirely convinced she's not some kind of zombie, that's new to this timeline. Maya Prime never heard of her.

It'd be a little wild if Nozomu was Kaori's dad, and the one driving the yellow car, or something. Kaori was around 15 when the accident with Sekai happened, and there seems to be some connection between Sekai, Kaori, and Ami, etc.

Kaori has been fond of Ami since the start:

Spoiler

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Nevertheless, Nozomu remains a mystery, as does Kaori.

Tragically, that would also mean Yuki has abandoned two potential daughters instead of one (she'd have become Kaori's legal guardian as well if she was around at the time).

This reminded me that Yuki kind of has 3 daughters. Yumi (bio), Tsuneyo (Tsu-chan) who she feels protective of, and Io, who...well, at least seems to see Yuki as important enough, to her, to randomly bring her groceries.

I wonder how Yuki would react to the recent Io stuff? Nodoka is just begging to be Yuki's punching bag, albeit she might be into it.

You know, something about Sekai i've never really understood is how she stuck with Akira as he grew up, from everything we know about her and her writing, she saw in him an opportunity to finally satisfy her pedophilic appetite... but she was still with him into adulthood... you'd think things would've gradually faded as he moved out of her interest range, the fact we know she first started lusting for him when he was less than 9 months old should suggest her interests were fully in the prepubescent zone so why didn't she groom a new victim? It's not like her appetite would go away even if she could still find satisfaction in adult Akira, she'd still lust for young boys... i feel like i could throw several arguments or hypothetical explanations in to plug the gaps but it's all just conjecture and again, regardless of what argument i use, she's still a pedo, she should still have pedo lusts that would be going unquenched and after having had years of that hunger being fed... could she really go on without looking for another?

In that regard i feel Sekai is underdeveloped as a character, she works in the story only as a mechanism to explain Akira and his pedophilic grooming behaviour, as a consequence she comes across as more of an Akira-sexual than a common pedo.

The pedo stuff seemed more like a kink than a fetish. Sekai was fucking Nozomu after all. Plus also seemed into girls as well as boys.

She seemed to have done it more because it was wrong, instead of her...type.

Sekai's relationship with Sensei seemed to start off as simply an indulgence, but then became an addiction, and eventually they fell in "love":

Spoiler

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Presumably, it's why Sensei was fucking Maya even after she hit puberty. Albeit, he seems to be even more into it than Sekai, considering his temptations with Uta's pic, and Tsukasa recently. Sensei seems like more of a pedo than Sekai actually was.

 

[barglenarglezous]

You know, something about Sekai i've never really understood is how she stuck with Akira as he grew up, from everything we know about her and her writing, she saw in him an opportunity to finally satisfy her pedophilic appetite... but she was still with him into adulthood... you'd think things would've gradually faded as he moved out of her interest range, the fact we know she first started lusting for him when he was less than 9 months old should suggest her interests were fully in the prepubescent zone so why didn't she groom a new victim? It's not like her appetite would go away even if she could still find satisfaction in adult Akira, she'd still lust for young boys... i feel like i could throw several arguments or hypothetical explanations in to plug the gaps but it's all just conjecture and again, regardless of what argument i use, she's still a pedo, she should still have pedo lusts that would be going unquenched and after having had years of that hunger being fed... could she really go on without looking for another?

In that regard i feel Sekai is underdeveloped as a character, she works in the story only as a mechanism to explain Akira and his pedophilic grooming behaviour, as a consequence she comes across as more of an Akira-sexual than a common pedo.

Our understanding of Sekai is incomplete, and largely viewed through the lens of trauma. When it comes to her, Akira is about as unreliable a narrator as you can get, and the only other real source of information we have about her is Wakana's understanding of her poetry -- poetry which was dark, disturbing, and controversial.

She may have simply been creating a living poem in her style, creating a monster simply to put the darkness out into the world as some kind of twisted legacy. Or maybe she fixated on him, specifically, because of what he represented. Or maybe there were other kids, but childhood victims of trauma tend to focus on their own experience, becoming blind to what is happening to others, and there ARE other victims.

Something to consider -- she didn't start walking around and talking to Akira until he started actually trying to be a better person, and I suspect she's manifesting as a trauma coping mechanism to help him convince himself that he's a better person. Because now his intrusive thoughts have the face and voice of his abuser, he can pass culpability off onto her. For all his talk of wanting to be a better person, he's still molesting pre-teens on the regular He's still a piece of shit. But now that's HER doing, not his (or at least, that's how he justifies it to himself).

We don't even really know the truth of her relationship to him. We know he loved her towards the end. We know that his construct tells him that she loved him, but for all we know whatever fixation she had on him could have passed to Ami after she was born, and perhaps a degree of his trauma is the abandonment he felt after that.

 

[Moonflare]

I wonder how Yuki would react to the recent Io stuff? Nodoka is just begging to be Yuki's punching bag, albeit she might be into it.

Random thought, but from reading this, it makes me think that Nodoka is begging for beatings because she preys on people that can't very well throw punches. Yumi acts like a bully, sure - but in reality she's a malnourished teenager that can't even get away from Akira's grip. Like, I'm not even talking just about strength - she didn't even have the common reaction of trying to kick him. Getting slapped by people like Uta, that lost a strength competition against Yumi, isn't much either.

If Nodoka messed with someone that could actually kill her, like a Yumi that actually was what people claimed she was - she would be dead. What she did more than qualifies (in Yakuza sense) for getting a crowbar to the knees (at the very least) on a dark alley. I'd like for a dark route where Nodoka gets horribly beaten (maybe to death).

Then again, that Nodoka only goes after people that are weak (despite what they claim) fits with her mo. Maybe that's why she stopped with the Yuki thing, since sexually assaulting the daughter of someone that she knows nothing about, but that has potentially beaten real Yakuza would be dangerous and possibly a death flag.

 

[Bingoogus]

That's a lot of insightful responses, going to have to think more on the subject i see.

he's still molesting pre-teens on the regular

Small point of order, they're not preteens, that'd be the wizards, the rest are definitely mid-teens, 14-16.

 

[apostolodieros]

I or really afraid that Nodoka might reach the roof one day, she is really the last person who should know about the reset

 

[Bingoogus]

I or really afraid that Nodoka might reach the roof one day, she is really the last person who should know about the reset

Really? I'd argue she'd be, by far, the most interesting person to join the RAS...

 

[Moonflare]

Really? I'd argue she'd be, by far, the most interesting person to join the RAS...

I think they meant it in the sense that if Nodoka knew everything reset, she'd get even more unhinged in what she does to break the world.

 

[DeSkel15]

Random thought, but from reading this, it makes me think that Nodoka is begging for beatings because she preys on people that can't very well throw punches. Yumi acts like a bully, sure - but in reality she's a malnourished teenager that can't even get away from Akira's grip. Like, I'm not even talking just about strength - she didn't even have the common reaction of trying to kick him. Getting slapped by people like Uta, that lost a strength competition against Yumi isn't much either.

If Nodoka messed with someone that could actually kill her, like a Yumi that actually was what people claimed she was - she would be dead. What she did more than qualifies (in Yakuza sense) for getting a crowbar to the knees (at the very least) on a dark alley. I'd like for a dark route where Nodoka gets horribly beaten (maybe to death).

Then again, that Nodoka only goes after people that are weak (despite what they claim) fits with her mo. Maybe that's why she stopped with the Yuki thing, since sexually assaulting the daughter of someone that she knows nothing about, but that has potentially beaten real Yakuza would be dangerous and possibly a death flag.

When it comes to Yumi, she definitely was a bully, criminal, bad person, etc:

Spoiler

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I mean she did threaten to, then actually tried to kill Nodoka afterwards, as well:

Spoiler

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Nodoka's already been assaulted by her.

Yumi also tried to attack Nodoka before the bathroom stuff, but was stopped by Tsuneyo:

Spoiler

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Nodoka just didn't seem to like Yumi for obvious reasons, but Nodoka hasn't bothered Yumi since, and if it was simply about preying on weaklings then Yumi isn't exactly any stronger, now.

Yumi didn't fight back against Sensei, because her body didn't seem to want to:

Spoiler

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At least, in the moment.

Nodoka is also probably still hitting on Yuki:

Spoiler

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It's been awhile, though.

Now, when it comes to Io and Nodoka, it seems like a different story. Nodoka may have simply treated Io as a casualty in her war against reality, which is pretty shitty of her.

 

[Riolol]

When it comes to Yumi, she definitely was a bully, criminal, bad person, etc:

Spoiler

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I mean she did threaten to, then actually tried to kill Nodoka afterwards, as well:

Spoiler

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Nodoka's already been assaulted by her.

Yumi also tried to attack Nodoka before the bathroom stuff, but was stopped by Tsuneyo:

Spoiler

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Nodoka just didn't seem to like Yumi for obvious reasons, but Nodoka hasn't bothered Yumi since, and if it was simply about preying on weaklings then Yumi isn't exactly any stronger, now.

Yumi didn't fight back against Sensei, because her body didn't seem to want to:

Spoiler

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At least, in the moment.

Nodoka is also probably still hitting on Yuki:

Spoiler

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It's been awhile, though.

Now, when it comes to Io and Nodoka, it seems like a different story. Nodoka may have simply treated Io as a casualty in her war against reality, which is pretty shitty of her.

Kaori is so damn cute in that outfit

 

[PhiloPhilo]

"O world" is a common poetic device, usually addressing an absent party that isn't the reader. Usually, it's God, or the gods, or some higher power. In this case, I think Sel is doing a play on the translation of Sekai (Sekai = World), and this can be interpreted as "Oh, Sekai, in our final moment together, please tell me why. Why did it have to be Nozomu?"

Now whether this is meant to mean "why did you marry him" or "why are you dying alongside him and not me" is debatable. I suspect it's the latter, that his anguish over living without Sekai in his life is so great he would have rather died in the crash in lieu of his brother.

As O World is a poetic device, the other candidates for narrators invoking it would be Sekai (a poet) or Ami (a developing poet learning through study of her mother's work), as well as Akira himself. Yasu using it to invoke her gods/the gods also makes a lot of sense.

But in this specific instance, Akira is speaking to Sekai herself through this poetic device.

It would make sense for Sekai to use the phrase, but it doesn't make sense for her to be related to most or any of the mentions of it we actually have in game besides the fact that she's super dead
.It's really only Akira and potentially Nozomu (besides Yasu using it) from context. It may have been something Sekai used to say/use, but its actual use is mostly unique to Akira and seems to be a pattern

You know, something about Sekai i've never really understood is how she stuck with Akira as he grew up, from everything we know about her and her writing, she saw in him an opportunity to finally satisfy her pedophilic appetite... but she was still with him into adulthood... you'd think things would've gradually faded as he moved out of her interest range, the fact we know she first started lusting for him when he was less than 9 months old should suggest her interests were fully in the prepubescent zone so why didn't she groom a new victim? It's not like her appetite would go away even if she could still find satisfaction in adult Akira, she'd still lust for young boys... i feel like i could throw several arguments or hypothetical explanations in to plug the gaps but it's all just conjecture and again, regardless of what argument i use, she's still a pedo, she should still have pedo lusts that would be going unquenched and after having had years of that hunger being fed... could she really go on without looking for another?

In that regard i feel Sekai is underdeveloped as a character, she works in the story only as a mechanism to explain Akira and his pedophilic grooming behaviour, as a consequence she comes across as more of an Akira-sexual than a common pedo.

It's likely that Sekai thought of Akira as "the boy I groomed" and that never really changed. It happens a lot in weird relationships where someone in like their mid twenties (like a teacher) dates a 15 year old and they stay together. The victim isn't actually a child anymore eventually, but mentally they still see them as "their little boy" or something, and the age gap staying the same helps them rationalize that. The 41 year old sees the 25 year old and still thinks what a cute boy. Of course that's a massive oversimplification, but it does seem to happen. I'd say there's a good chance Sekai may have grown bored of Akira eventually, though, once that facade wasn't as easy to maintain

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

Considering Yuki never seemed to marry Yumi's dad, it's likely that one of Kaori's parents were her sibling. Kaori wouldn't actually be her niece otherwise, and Yuki tends to say that they are related instead of related by marriage, etc.

I don't recall if It's stated which of Kaori's parents were related to Yuki, but they definitely seem to have died while Kaori survived...sort of:

Spoiler

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Kaori definitely didn't seem to come out of it unscathed, and I'm not entirely convinced she's not some kind of zombie, that's new to this timeline. Maya Prime never heard of her.

It'd be a little wild if Nozomu was Kaori's dad, and the one driving the yellow car, or something. Kaori was around 15 when the accident with Sekai happened, and there seems to be some connection between Sekai, Kaori, and Ami, etc.

Kaori has been fond of Ami since the start:

Spoiler

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Nevertheless, Nozomu remains a mystery, as does Kaori.


This reminded me that Yuki kind of has 3 daughters. Yumi (bio), Tsuneyo (Tsu-chan) who she feels protective of, and Io, who...well, at least seems to see Yuki as important enough, to her, to randomly bring her groceries.

I wonder how Yuki would react to the recent Io stuff? Nodoka is just begging to be Yuki's punching bag, albeit she might be into it.


The pedo stuff seemed more like a kink than a fetish. Sekai was fucking Nozomu after all. Plus also seemed into girls as well as boys.

She seemed to have done it more because it was wrong, instead of her...type.

Sekai's relationship with Sensei seemed to start off as simply an indulgence, but then became an addiction, and eventually they fell in "love":

Spoiler

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Presumably, it's why Sensei was fucking Maya even after she hit puberty. Albeit, he seems to be even more into it than Sekai, considering his temptations with Uta's pic, and Tsukasa recently. Sensei seems like more of a pedo than Sekai actually was.

The reason why Kaori is fond of Ami is her organs