Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.43.0] [Selebus]

[Moonflare]

Yeah. I find myself wondering how much interaction Niki and Sekai had — if any. Because Sekai was abusing/fucking Akira all through the first stretch that he and Niki were sort-of boyfriend/girlfriend, right? Do we have any in-canon references to non-ghost!Sekai talking with or about Niki? Or Niki talking about Ami's mom as anything but Ami's mom? Does she ever reference "the girl who cannot breathe"?

Sekai got pissed when Akira came home with pink hair on his shirt. However, that may have been Akira projecting. The actual time we see Sekai talking about Niki is during that one scene where she has Akira redo his English homework, and she didn't seem to mind Niki, the opposite in fact, she teased Akira about her.

In the scene, however, Akira seemed to be more of a kid though, and Sekai could have gotten mad at her being an actual girlfriend to him when they were older. It's unclear. Akira stated Sekai never treated anything seriously, and he always felt like he was being played by her, so it makes it harder to know what she actually felt about Niki (it would have been unrealistic for her to display actual jealousy when she herself was having sex with Nozomu though - and Akira having a girlfriend could work out well as a smokescreen for Sekai).

Regarding current Sekai, she seems more than okay with Niki (then again she's dead lol) - she goes from saying Niki looks beautiful, to asking who's better at sex and that she won't get mad if it's Niki. As to Niki replacing her, that's when Sekai got mad/sad for the first time. I don't know to what extent this will be present in the game, but it is a real thing that the dead need a place among the living to stop them from vanishing (speaking metaphorically). So, supernatural aside, if Niki really healed their family and became the mom figure, Sekai would disappear for sure (especially this bizarre Sekai "whose word is law").

 

[aramaug]

The timelines don't match though. Nodoka is Ami's age. The only possible way for Nodoka to be Akira's sister is if she time-travelled, she'd have to be Yuu's granddaughter if anything (which isn't likely because she's Kyoko's daughter).

Also, if Yuu was around to impregnate Kyoko by the time Ami was born, then Saki's trauma would make little sense. Why would she be so hard on Akira (for his similarity to Yuu) if Yuu was around and well enough to go around getting people pregnant?

Also, if Yuu was around and well, it'd make absolutely no sense for him not to care for Akira when he started showing the same symptoms as him. It's understandable that Saki'd react badly to it because it had already taken her husband. But for Yuu? He'd be well, and thus Akira's issues would be much less of a big deal since he was able to thrive even though he had them as well.

I'm going off of memory here so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think our only evidence for Yuu's absence is what we're told in "Goodnight Moon" (which might not even be accurate, it seems to be narrated by Pareidolia). In any case we're not told that Yuu was dead (or how or when he died), so any of the following are possible:

• Rather than dying, Yuu abandoned his family with Saki.
• Memories involving Yuu were retroactively altered, hence why Pareidolia says that no one remembers him.
• The Kyoko in the upside down house was impregnated and this somehow made the Kyoko in Kumon-mi pregnant.
• Kyoko physically traveled to a different plane (like Futaba in TSS2) and was impregnated there.

I'm not saying that any of these are likely, I just want to point out there's too much that we don't know. I find it easier to accept that supernatural fuckery allows Yuu to be Nodoka's father than that the other clues are red herrings.

Was anyone else a little freaked out by how Sana was acting during the sleepover? Her attentive listening and pushiness seemed suspicious. I'm sure I can't be the only one thinking it, do we think one of the gods are manipulating her? I'm not sure which god she most relates to though, wondering if any lore lovers can help out.

Pareidolia seems to be using her. We used to think it was HOPE, mainly because it seems HOPE was involved with Sara, and there's the theory Sana is the daughter of Nozomu himself. However, since that one event Pareidolia "saved" Sana/slipped her back to kumon-mi (or even engineered the whole situation), it seems he's intent on using her.

I agree that she seems to be pretty strongly under Pareidolia's (and Sekai's) influence at this point. A few things from this update:

• She thinks that only she can fix Akira, which is very similar to what SekaiDolia have said at other times. Also the "Only the spiders can save you now, frog boy" from the audio in this event.
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• She thinks that he should just enjoy living forever in a world with a bunch of little girls instead of trying to escape the cycle. Similar to Pareidolia wanting him to stop looking for answers and become the collector.
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• As Moonflare points out, right after the narrator tells him to stay in the room, she immediately tries to get him out of it.
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• She's increasingly having disturbing dreams in which she loses control.
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• She's hearing her brother. This could really be him, but I think it's more likely Pareidolia using him to get in her head, the same way he uses Sekai with Akira.

More generally, this is Sana's chapter and Pareidolia's season, and he's the one that tells Sensei that Sana is "in bloom". And ominously, her blooming is compared to a corpse flower (which is also the background flower in her chapter image). Plus, her personality changed more in the two months off screen at the start of Chapter 4 than it had in the entire game up to that point, which I think would be lazy writing if it isn't due to supernatural influence.

 

[Comiies]

Yeah, given that good uncle in an option it kind of debunks Ami's plan being essentialy Niki catching them (it could be more of an accessory). However, I will say that it never fails to amuse me just how much Niki doesn't know about Akira. It's shocking really.

The things she misses on purpose are one thing, like blinding herself to his cheating and overall teenage sex - but things like the incest are really strange. Her idea of having to explain to Ami why incest is bad when she's Sekai daughter is borderline between funny and tragic. Most of all, how come she aknowledges that Akira lost his world when Sekai died, yet thinks he could have been a virgin when they meet again? [...] it's like, what? lol

You're devoting your whole life to this person and yet have no idea about the most important things in his life. Granted, Niki has a lot going for her. But good luck trying to improve Akira when Akira and Ami are going to keep having sex under your roof. I guess we'll learn if Niki's just bark soon enough (cause at the moment, the ability to accept this side of things is the only thing Noriko has going for her - and the lack of a heavier history together too I guess, but that's still an advantage for Niki).

Niki has said so herself.She is far too in love with Akira to escape.She is doomed to be hurt by him until she breaks or she dies.This is the unfortunate constitution of our main character.

 

[Antosha]

Niki has said so herself.She is far too in love with Akira to escape.She is doomed to be hurt by him until she breaks or she dies.This is the unfortunate constitution of our main character.

Yeah. It's also why this whole scenario has a real No Exit feel to it — each of the many characters seems designed to torture the rest. "Hell is the others," and all that.

Makes me curious about Akira's current, apparently sincere attempt to be a better person. If Sel "rewards" this attempt by having it not only fail, but actually making things worse for everyone, or by having everyone simply reset to Chapter 1... the nihilism may just get too boring for me.

I'm going off of memory here so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think our only evidence for Yuu's absence is what we're told in "Goodnight Moon" (which might not even be accurate, it seems to be narrated by Pareidolia). In any case we're not told that Yuu was dead (or how or when he died), so any of the following are possible:

• Rather than dying, Yuu abandoned his family with Saki.
• Memories involving Yuu were retroactively altered, hence why Pareidolia says that no one remembers him.
• The Kyoko in the upside down house was impregnated and this somehow made the Kyoko in Kumon-mi pregnant.
• Kyoko physically traveled to a different plane (like Futaba in TSS2) and was impregnated there.

I'm not saying that any of these are likely, I just want to point out there's too much that we don't know. I find it easier to accept that supernatural fuckery allows Yuu to be Nodoka's father than that the other clues are red herrings.


I agree that she seems to be pretty strongly under Pareidolia's (and Sekai's) influence at this point. A few things from this update:

• She thinks that only she can fix Akira, which is very similar to what SekaiDolia have said at other times. Also the "Only the spiders can save you now, frog boy" from the audio in this event.
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• She thinks that he should just enjoy living forever in a world with a bunch of little girls instead of trying to escape the cycle. Similar to Pareidolia wanting him to stop looking for answers and become the collector.
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• As Moonflare points out, right after the narrator tells him to stay in the room, she immediately tries to get him out of it.
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• She's increasingly having disturbing dreams in which she loses control.
  Spoiler

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• She's hearing her brother. This could really be him, but I think it's more likely Pareidolia using him to get in her head, the same way he uses Sekai with Akira.

More generally, this is Sana's chapter and Pareidolia's season, and he's the one that tells Sensei that Sana is "in bloom". And ominously, her blooming is compared to a corpse flower (which is also the background flower in her chapter image). Plus, her personality changed more in the two months off screen at the start of Chapter 4 than it had in the entire game up to that point, which I think would be lazy writing if it isn't due to supernatural influence.

NOOOOOOO! Not SANA!

Actually, there's one small counter-argument to your excellent points here: I think we have to take Sana at her word that her freaky side really was always there. It's one of the wilder bits of characterization in the game — this girl who seems completely innocent and unconnected to her own sexuality is in fact as consumed by her own lust as everyone else.

So to some extent, Sana's "weird" behavior is actually more authentically her.

 

[Xiondingens]

If Sel "rewards" this attempt by having it not only fail, but actually making things worse for everyone, or by having everyone simply reset to Chapter 1... the nihilism may just get too boring for me.

Well, no matter what i am sure it will pay off for akira. Just remember what he said to noriko on the bad uncle path.
"I need you to suffer for me"

 

[aramaug]

Some other questions/thoughts about what Nodoka is letting on in this update.

Q1: What does Nodoka mean when she reaffirmed that Futaba is special? Who is this she?
View attachment 3901224
The she here is highly likely to be Kyoko; the groceries, the attic, and the fact that she's now a proven special case.
I just fail to see how that makes Futaba special; or maybe I misunderstood what Nodoka means here. She perhaps isn't alluding to the origin that makes Futaba special, but is simply saying that a certain she also went through similar paranormal events and is thus deemed special by Nodoka, and now Futaba qualifies as well.

Q2: Can the when and where Nodoka recovered the note her other selves wrote for herself be confirmed by an event?
View attachment 3901237
I wanted to guess that "a place that God himself could never find" is that abandoned school featured in Beyond the Reach of God, but the date couldn't be correct. That event took place in early Ch3 and before Halloween wars so it's for sure not December. However, the rest of that event seems very fitting; venturing out to find something, a mark that resembles lower case T on the ground (perhaps the exact same spot where amiokay got crucified on the cross in The Letter 'T'), the event name itself, etc.

Another possible place is the Wishing Well / The Library where Nodoka is submerged in the pool, but this is supported merely by thoughts like "why not".

Or, since Nodoka from time to time went apeshit well before Beyond the Reach of God, so she might've located this note a lot earlier behind the scene and has been trying to crack it for some time, though in those scenarios she could very well be studying Kyoko's words and not her own. In addition, my impression is that Nodoka would know what her own note meant as soon as she retrieved it; she just struggled with the mechanisms until Yasu enlightened her. All in all, it’s relatively possible that the note was retrieved BTS but it feels a lot less enticing if that’s the case.

1. I'm pretty sure the "she" is Yuko aka DOUBT, the girl with lavender hair from the upside down house that Kyoko was in love with.

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Futaba has been connected to her before because of the lavender (Futaba smells like lavender). It seems like Yuko had the ability to leave the house (getting groceries and books) by physically traveling between planes like Futaba does. I'm not sure exactly what Futaba's connection to her is, but it almost seems like Nodoka is suggesting that it's hereditary; is it possible that Futaba is her daughter? Maybe Yuko left the house permanently at some point, or maybe Futaba is unknowingly adopted.

2. I think it's the abandoned school. She says she hid the journal where god couldn't find it, and the event where she goes to the school (and presumably digs up the journal) is literally called "Beyond the Reach of God" (probably because the school is outside the barrier). December 28 might just be the date of the journal entry she's talking about, rather than when she recovered the journal. It's also possible that she has to hide and recover the journal for every reset so that the gods don't remove it.

Edit: I'm not sure what the connection is, but it's probably not a coincidence that December 28 is also the date of the slumber party from the fifth reset.

 

[Comiies]

Yeah. It's also why this whole scenario has a real No Exit feel to it — each of the many characters seems designed to torture the rest. "Hell is the others," and all that.

Makes me curious about Akira's current, apparently sincere attempt to be a better person. If Sel "rewards" this attempt by having it not only fail, but actually making things worse for everyone, or by having everyone simply reset to Chapter 1... the nihilism may just get too boring for me.

Just one more potential trap that Sel has to avoid.While there have been some dubious writing choices and decitions(Like the whole Io thing and the fact that he has included NiB in LIL when NiB is 1)Unfinished and 2)Is going to be re-written) but aside that he hasnt dissapointed me yet so we will see.Though i truly wonder how he will dodge the NiB bullet.

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Is she not talking about her mother here? I mean i think it was right before her little porn game she said, "And only then will the words of my mother make sense to me." So unless that Kyoko you talk about is her mother, i would disagree. But, i dont remember ever reading that name. So... do i disagree or do i agree with you here? I am not sure.

No I’m with you and I think it does mean Kyoko (Nodoka’s mom) upon re-reading.

Initially I thought Nodoka meant “You are special because of Kyoko” and confused myself, but it’s probably “You are special because Kyoko too is special in the same way”.

 

[Comiies]

1. I'm pretty sure the "she" is Yuko aka DOUBT, the girl with lavender hair from the upside down house that Kyoko was in love with.

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Futaba has been connected to her before because of the lavender (Futaba smells like lavender). It seems like Yuko had the ability to leave the house (getting groceries and books) by physically traveling between planes like Futaba does. I'm not sure exactly what Futaba's connection to her is, but it almost seems like Nodoka is suggesting that it's hereditary; is it possible that Futaba is her daughter? Maybe Yuko left the house permanently at some point, or maybe Futaba is unknowingly adopted.

2. I think it's the abandoned school. She says she hid the journal where god couldn't find it, and the event where she goes to the school (and presumably digs up the journal) is literally called "Beyond the Reach of God" (probably because the school is outside the barrier). December 28 might just be the date of the journal entry she's talking about, rather than when she recovered the journal. It's also possible that she has to hide and recover the journal for every reset so that the gods don't remove it.

Edit: I'm not sure what the connection is, but it's probably not coincidence that December 28 is also the date of the slumber party from the fifth reset.

>About 2

This actually makes me think.If we take Nodokas words at face value then everything outside of Kumon-mi is free of the gods influence.Does that mean that the closer we get to the walls the weaker the influence and vice versa?If so what is in the center of Kumon-mi? Where is the gods influence the strongest.

 

[Xiondingens]

No I’m with you and I think it does mean Kyoko (Nodoka’s mom) upon re-reading.

Initially I thought Nodoka meant “You are special because of Kyoko” and confused myself, but it’s probably “You are special because Kyoko too is special in the same way”.

Ah, cool, so Kyoko is her mom. Good to know.

 

[Dc345]

Spoiler: Karin Event Title

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[Kitty Hawk]

Spoiler: Pics

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[LessonsInDissonance]

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Touka is making me lose control here

 

[Jeraviel]

I just thought about a hilariously tragic situation:
Noriko will finally get to have her time with Akira. After him cucking her with Maya at the beach, after getting blue-balled and "almost" caught by Ami while also finding out about their incestuous relationship...

Finally, it is tim-
*KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK*
IT'S FUCKING NIKI OUTSIDE THE DOOR

Jokes aside, even if it is actually Ami's plan for Niki to find out about Akira's inappropiate relationship with his students, it will probably backfired on Ami
Niki will suffer. She will feel disgusted at him. She will most likely slap him a couple of times. She will cry. But then she will simply stand back up and still try to, as futile as it will be, to "save" or "fix" her childhood friend. Teach him what it is to be a good person.

Ayane, with some reluctancy, has accepted Ami and Sensei's incestuous relationship
Noriko, I still don't know where she would stand, but probably against it
As for Niki? she will become a big fucking wall in between their incestuous relationship, in her attempt to save both of them.

I mean obviously if this was real life Niki would leave, or just call the police and if she still loves him after everything, she would just wait until he is discharged and then live happily ever after. But that won't happen.

 

[Bingoogus]

I assume he'll get it back in a reset anyway.

Like the Greek Hydra, cut it off and two more grow in its place...

 

[LoveBlueHairedGirl]

Like the Greek Hydra, cut it off and two more grow in its place...

Two-dick Sensei...

 

[Unseenatlas]

So what do you guys think is the plan? I mean i think because of the fact that she did agree to niki moving in, it will be about her. But is it about Niki overtaken by Sekai, or is it to completely destroy her releationship with Akira? I mean, i am sure Ami has enough proof for what he is doing to do that.

I have a feeling that it will probably be leading to her downfall. From the start it would not make too much sense with the invite over option if she is never home unless we 'invite' her over, and also when she finds out that we have about 20 girls that are very horny on speed dial. So, either we see that she finds out that, or it will probobly lead to her getting fully reset in the same sense as maya, just without the sex scene. my bet is on the former, but the latter does have some ground. revised theory from months ago incoming.


NEW THEORY FOR 'THE END OF THE WORLD'

Previously ive established that there were two main conditions to allowing you to know about resets, and being there at the end of the world. 1) scene at rooftop with sensei 2) impregnation. 1) allows you to know about resets but not show up at the end of the world, while 2) lets you be at the end of the world but not know about resets(until after the next reset as being at the end of the world is where the rooftop is. With the new info we have, with Sana, Yasu and Nodoka specifically, i think we can add some more to this theory, specifically for 1). Basically, if you have a rooftop scene OR have seen/heard directly from/spoken to the gods(hope, pareidolia, wires, exe) you can gain a certain amount of realization about the resets. Yasu, while knowing parts, will not know the entire picture due to hope only giving her what it feels she needs to know-basic world ending feeling, knowing that the worlds are stacked atop one another, that stuff, but giving it much more vaguely. Pareidolia, rather then straight up giving knowledge to Sana and trying to just make her a devoted follower, instead gave her the ability to know about the resets(when told but wont retain it on her own), and also made it so she has black outs like Akira, so when she gets the knowledge, doesn't end up freaking out and going flat out insane. Nodoka is the challenging one, but i have a guess for her. rather then being a devote follower or fully retaining the knowledge in her mind entirely(as the gods have blocked her from it until we probably get a rooftop scene), she found out somehow, and since then basically stalked us in some form of matter(using our dead mom probably or something of the effect) to gain more information. she then stored it using novels(stuff that doesnt make the shelves) to study it on her own without alerting the gods. I will admit that the third one is much more of an asspull but for now she is the outlier in this as i need to rewatch all events including her to get a better understanding. if anything i will probably change hers up when done or after the next event.

 

[uhhhwhat]

Pardon my newness here, but has there been a discussion on the last name of all the characters before? Some of them have goofy meanings, like Futaba Fuku yama (Blessed Mountains) or Uta Ushi bori (Cow Hole), but other ones have seemingly deep meanings. Arakawa (Rough, violent, chaotic, becoming larger, nonsensical/new fresh stream) for Ami, Akira and whoever else. Kadowaki (Gate Triangular) which seems like something I'm not smart enough to dig into with the Triangle Circle Triangle thing. Sakakibara (Sarificial Tree/Origin or Source). Is this a thing or should I pull up a chair at the kid's table?

 

[PhiloPhilo]

Pardon my newness here, but has there been a discussion on the last name of all the characters before? Some of them have goofy meanings, like Futaba Fuku yama (Blessed Mountains) or Uta Ushi bori (Cow Hole), but other ones have seemingly deep meanings. Arakawa (Rough, violent, chaotic, becoming larger, nonsensical/new fresh stream) for Ami, Akira and whoever else. Kadowaki (Gate Triangular) which seems like something I'm not smart enough to dig into with the Triangle Circle Triangle thing. Sakakibara (Sarificial Tree/Origin or Source). Is this a thing or should I pull up a chair at the kid's table?

I don't think there's been a lot, but it would be welcome. Can I ask how you translated those names? I'm having trouble interpreting some of them the same way (though I'm not proficient.) Their names and other characters' seem to largely be taken from the names of places or typical surnames/clan names at first glance as well. It's not fun to Occam's razor everything, but it's hard to speculate much without a definitive translation, especially made hard without the actual spelling / Kanji. If those exist in-game or in a translation/outside source I'm unaware

 

[Bingoogus]

Pardon my newness here, but has there been a discussion on the last name of all the characters before? Some of them have goofy meanings, like Futaba Fuku yama (Blessed Mountains) or Uta Ushi bori (Cow Hole), but other ones have seemingly deep meanings. Arakawa (Rough, violent, chaotic, becoming larger, nonsensical/new fresh stream) for Ami, Akira and whoever else. Kadowaki (Gate Triangular) which seems like something I'm not smart enough to dig into with the Triangle Circle Triangle thing. Sakakibara (Sarificial Tree/Origin or Source). Is this a thing or should I pull up a chair at the kid's table?

I was under the impression that just about all names in Hiragana are largely meaningless beyond common convention and that it's only the Kanji that are given deeper meaning and that many many names can be written in multiple different Kanji, all meaning something different... if even half of that is true and the author doesn't speak Japanese or know Kanji, i think it'd be a fool's errand to try and derive some kind of useful information from sifting through all the names, i'd bet good money Selly just picked what sounded good to his English-speaking ears. Maybe he googled a few and felt the descriptions fit but i'd put no more weight on it then when any of us look for a name for a player character in an RPG.