Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.45.0] [Selebus]

[Antosha]

Yeah, given that good uncle in an option it kind of debunks Ami's plan being essentialy Niki catching them (it could be more of an accessory). However, I will say that it never fails to amuse me just how much Niki doesn't know about Akira. It's shocking really.

The things she misses on purpose are one thing, like blinding herself to his cheating and overall teenage sex - but things like the incest are really strange. Her idea of having to explain to Ami why incest is bad when she's Sekai daughter is borderline between funny and tragic. Most of all, how come she aknowledges that Akira lost his world when Sekai died, yet thinks he could have been a virgin when they meet again? [...] it's like, what? lol

You're devoting your whole life to this person and yet have no idea about the most important things in his life. Granted, Niki has a lot going for her. But good luck trying to improve Akira when Akira and Ami are going to keep having sex under your roof. I guess we'll learn if Niki's just bark soon enough (cause at the moment, the ability to accept this side of things is the only thing Noriko has going for her - and the lack of a heavier history together too I guess, but that's still an advantage for Niki).

Yeah. I find myself wondering how much interaction Niki and Sekai had — if any. Because Sekai was abusing/fucking Akira all through the first stretch that he and Niki were sort-of boyfriend/girlfriend, right? Do we have any in-canon references to non-ghost!Sekai talking with or about Niki? Or Niki talking about Ami's mom as anything but Ami's mom? Does she ever reference "the girl who cannot breathe"?

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Some other questions/thoughts about what Nodoka is letting on in this update.

Q1: What does Nodoka mean when she reaffirmed that Futaba is special? Who is this she?

The she here is highly likely to be Kyoko; the groceries, the attic, and the fact that she's now a proven special case.
I just fail to see how that makes Futaba special; or maybe I misunderstood what Nodoka means here. She perhaps isn't alluding to the origin that makes Futaba special, but is simply saying that a certain she also went through similar paranormal events and is thus deemed special by Nodoka, and now Futaba qualifies as well.

Q2: Can the when and where Nodoka recovered the note her other selves wrote for herself be confirmed by an event?

I wanted to guess that "a place that God himself could never find" is that abandoned school featured in Beyond the Reach of God, but the date couldn't be correct. That event took place in early Ch3 and before Halloween wars so it's for sure not December. However, the rest of that event seems very fitting; venturing out to find something, a mark that resembles lower case T on the ground (perhaps the exact same spot where amiokay got crucified on the cross in The Letter 'T'), the event name itself, etc.

Another possible place is the Wishing Well / The Library where Nodoka is submerged in the pool, but this is supported merely by thoughts like "why not".

Or, since Nodoka from time to time went apeshit well before Beyond the Reach of God, so she might've located this note a lot earlier behind the scene and has been trying to crack it for some time, though in those scenarios she could very well be studying Kyoko's words and not her own. In addition, my impression is that Nodoka would know what her own note meant as soon as she retrieved it; she just struggled with the mechanisms until Yasu enlightened her. All in all, it’s relatively possible that the note was retrieved BTS but it feels a lot less enticing if that’s the case.

 

[ElaineZol]

But this clearly wouldnt work. So if -and that is a big if- it would happen that way, not only was the setup pretty poor, it would also end with the status quo. Niki wont leave, ami looking crazy again. And then what? Ami will come up with a new evil plan each update? I really think the only two possibilities that already have set up is, Niki going crazy/getting taken over by sekei -or at least something that looks like her- or Ami leaving evidence out there for Niki to find that Akira fucks over half the class by now.

I mean Sel did introduce the niki lost senity for a reason. And ami has now all the evidence she could ever wanted. And when they life together and might become hard to hide his fuckery already. I mean, from a story perspective it was already hard enough to get ami out of the way for him to invite one of the girls. Now he has to do it with niki too.

Hm, could be the reason the invitation mechanic still hasnt come back online.

No, it wouldn't work, but I still believe Ami would still try something along those lines, mostly because of the foreshadowing that whole scene implies; of course I could be completely wrong. It is also very possible Sekai is the one who takes action, though I believe it is more likely that she pushes Ami into doing something rather than possessing Niki, though either one is possible.

I think Ami is going to try to get caught with Akira by Niki but that might just happen on it's own. It's not really clear how much Ami and Akira have been fucking lately but they surely haven't stopped, moving Niki in is retarded when you think about it (unless you are a good uncle, I always forget that's an option).

It is a very bad idea considering that little detail, there is no way they can keep it hidden with Niki living there, but that takes me back to when Niki told Akira she would accept/forgive anything he did (or at least something like that). She knows Ami is into Akira, but she doesn't even suspect Akira in the slightest. Once she knows about them fucking is only a matter of time before she learns more and more.

Really, what Ami does is not really that important in my opinion, but rather what is the line that Niki draws when it comes to Akira and all of the shit he is currently doing and what he has done in the past and what she does about it. I don't expect her to be the one to actually take action against Akira considering what other people have already forgiven/accepted as part of him.

Edit: As a final thought just to add to that last part, I believe the only way to get Niki out of the way is to literally take her out of the picture. Whether or not that will happen or how, idfk. Also, a reset will happen soon, so when things happen and how they play out might be different depending on who is in control at that point, maybe.

 

[Xiondingens]

Yeah, given that good uncle in an option it kind of debunks Ami's plan being essentialy Niki catching them (it could be more of an accessory). However, I will say that it never fails to amuse me just how much Niki doesn't know about Akira. It's shocking really.

You know, i have thought about this for a while already. And i think, maybe she does. Just remember last update how casually she said that Noriko wont get the D. And when Ami is talking about sex, unless i missremember, the problem that Niki points out is incest, not age.

I mean, Niki isnt stupid, her choice to wait for him was deliberately. So what if she is actually aware, but just choose to not speak about it? What if she just did decide to ignore all of it, or something around that line.

Now that i think about it, that would be hilarious, Ami tries to destroy their relationship by letting her know about it, and it blows right back into her own face and Niki just does say "Yeah, so? I knew about this shit for a long time. I dont care, i will still fuck with your dad. As long there is enough dick for me, then i am happy with that D."

 

[barglenarglezous]

Gentleman, a question i have regarding one of the next version previews we got here.

Spoiler: Osako Sensei and Maki

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Sensei: "Maki, you've known about a strip club here in town all this time and you've never told me about it?"
Osako: "To be fair, they don't hire your type"

 

[Xiondingens]

Who is this she?

The she here is highly likely to be Kyoko; the groceries, the attic, and the fact that she's now a proven special case.
I just fail to see how that makes Futaba special; or maybe I misunderstood what Nodoka means here. She perhaps isn't alluding to the origin that makes Futaba special, but is simply saying that a certain she also went through similar paranormal events and is thus deemed special by Nodoka, and now Futaba qualifies as well.

Is she not talking about her mother here? I mean i think it was right before her little porn game she said, "And only then will the words of my mother make sense to me." So unless that Kyoko you talk about is her mother, i would disagree. But, i dont remember ever reading that name. So... do i disagree or do i agree with you here? I am not sure.

 

[Moonflare]

Yeah. I find myself wondering how much interaction Niki and Sekai had — if any. Because Sekai was abusing/fucking Akira all through the first stretch that he and Niki were sort-of boyfriend/girlfriend, right? Do we have any in-canon references to non-ghost!Sekai talking with or about Niki? Or Niki talking about Ami's mom as anything but Ami's mom? Does she ever reference "the girl who cannot breathe"?

Sekai got pissed when Akira came home with pink hair on his shirt. However, that may have been Akira projecting. The actual time we see Sekai talking about Niki is during that one scene where she has Akira redo his English homework, and she didn't seem to mind Niki, the opposite in fact, she teased Akira about her.

In the scene, however, Akira seemed to be more of a kid though, and Sekai could have gotten mad at her being an actual girlfriend to him when they were older. It's unclear. Akira stated Sekai never treated anything seriously, and he always felt like he was being played by her, so it makes it harder to know what she actually felt about Niki (it would have been unrealistic for her to display actual jealousy when she herself was having sex with Nozomu though - and Akira having a girlfriend could work out well as a smokescreen for Sekai).

Regarding current Sekai, she seems more than okay with Niki (then again she's dead lol) - she goes from saying Niki looks beautiful, to asking who's better at sex and that she won't get mad if it's Niki. As to Niki replacing her, that's when Sekai got mad/sad for the first time. I don't know to what extent this will be present in the game, but it is a real thing that the dead need a place among the living to stop them from vanishing (speaking metaphorically). So, supernatural aside, if Niki really healed their family and became the mom figure, Sekai would disappear for sure (especially this bizarre Sekai "whose word is law").

 

[aramaug]

The timelines don't match though. Nodoka is Ami's age. The only possible way for Nodoka to be Akira's sister is if she time-travelled, she'd have to be Yuu's granddaughter if anything (which isn't likely because she's Kyoko's daughter).

Also, if Yuu was around to impregnate Kyoko by the time Ami was born, then Saki's trauma would make little sense. Why would she be so hard on Akira (for his similarity to Yuu) if Yuu was around and well enough to go around getting people pregnant?

Also, if Yuu was around and well, it'd make absolutely no sense for him not to care for Akira when he started showing the same symptoms as him. It's understandable that Saki'd react badly to it because it had already taken her husband. But for Yuu? He'd be well, and thus Akira's issues would be much less of a big deal since he was able to thrive even though he had them as well.

I'm going off of memory here so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think our only evidence for Yuu's absence is what we're told in "Goodnight Moon" (which might not even be accurate, it seems to be narrated by Pareidolia). In any case we're not told that Yuu was dead (or how or when he died), so any of the following are possible:

• Rather than dying, Yuu abandoned his family with Saki.
• Memories involving Yuu were retroactively altered, hence why Pareidolia says that no one remembers him.
• The Kyoko in the upside down house was impregnated and this somehow made the Kyoko in Kumon-mi pregnant.
• Kyoko physically traveled to a different plane (like Futaba in TSS2) and was impregnated there.

I'm not saying that any of these are likely, I just want to point out there's too much that we don't know. I find it easier to accept that supernatural fuckery allows Yuu to be Nodoka's father than that the other clues are red herrings.

Was anyone else a little freaked out by how Sana was acting during the sleepover? Her attentive listening and pushiness seemed suspicious. I'm sure I can't be the only one thinking it, do we think one of the gods are manipulating her? I'm not sure which god she most relates to though, wondering if any lore lovers can help out.

Pareidolia seems to be using her. We used to think it was HOPE, mainly because it seems HOPE was involved with Sara, and there's the theory Sana is the daughter of Nozomu himself. However, since that one event Pareidolia "saved" Sana/slipped her back to kumon-mi (or even engineered the whole situation), it seems he's intent on using her.

I agree that she seems to be pretty strongly under Pareidolia's (and Sekai's) influence at this point. A few things from this update:

• She thinks that only she can fix Akira, which is very similar to what SekaiDolia have said at other times. Also the "Only the spiders can save you now, frog boy" from the audio in this event.
  Spoiler

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• She thinks that he should just enjoy living forever in a world with a bunch of little girls instead of trying to escape the cycle. Similar to Pareidolia wanting him to stop looking for answers and become the collector.
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• As Moonflare points out, right after the narrator tells him to stay in the room, she immediately tries to get him out of it.
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• She's increasingly having disturbing dreams in which she loses control.
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• She's hearing her brother. This could really be him, but I think it's more likely Pareidolia using him to get in her head, the same way he uses Sekai with Akira.

More generally, this is Sana's chapter and Pareidolia's season, and he's the one that tells Sensei that Sana is "in bloom". And ominously, her blooming is compared to a corpse flower (which is also the background flower in her chapter image). Plus, her personality changed more in the two months off screen at the start of Chapter 4 than it had in the entire game up to that point, which I think would be lazy writing if it isn't due to supernatural influence.

 

[Comiies]

Yeah, given that good uncle in an option it kind of debunks Ami's plan being essentialy Niki catching them (it could be more of an accessory). However, I will say that it never fails to amuse me just how much Niki doesn't know about Akira. It's shocking really.

The things she misses on purpose are one thing, like blinding herself to his cheating and overall teenage sex - but things like the incest are really strange. Her idea of having to explain to Ami why incest is bad when she's Sekai daughter is borderline between funny and tragic. Most of all, how come she aknowledges that Akira lost his world when Sekai died, yet thinks he could have been a virgin when they meet again? [...] it's like, what? lol

You're devoting your whole life to this person and yet have no idea about the most important things in his life. Granted, Niki has a lot going for her. But good luck trying to improve Akira when Akira and Ami are going to keep having sex under your roof. I guess we'll learn if Niki's just bark soon enough (cause at the moment, the ability to accept this side of things is the only thing Noriko has going for her - and the lack of a heavier history together too I guess, but that's still an advantage for Niki).

Niki has said so herself.She is far too in love with Akira to escape.She is doomed to be hurt by him until she breaks or she dies.This is the unfortunate constitution of our main character.

 

[Antosha]

Niki has said so herself.She is far too in love with Akira to escape.She is doomed to be hurt by him until she breaks or she dies.This is the unfortunate constitution of our main character.

Yeah. It's also why this whole scenario has a real No Exit feel to it — each of the many characters seems designed to torture the rest. "Hell is the others," and all that.

Makes me curious about Akira's current, apparently sincere attempt to be a better person. If Sel "rewards" this attempt by having it not only fail, but actually making things worse for everyone, or by having everyone simply reset to Chapter 1... the nihilism may just get too boring for me.

I'm going off of memory here so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think our only evidence for Yuu's absence is what we're told in "Goodnight Moon" (which might not even be accurate, it seems to be narrated by Pareidolia). In any case we're not told that Yuu was dead (or how or when he died), so any of the following are possible:

• Rather than dying, Yuu abandoned his family with Saki.
• Memories involving Yuu were retroactively altered, hence why Pareidolia says that no one remembers him.
• The Kyoko in the upside down house was impregnated and this somehow made the Kyoko in Kumon-mi pregnant.
• Kyoko physically traveled to a different plane (like Futaba in TSS2) and was impregnated there.

I'm not saying that any of these are likely, I just want to point out there's too much that we don't know. I find it easier to accept that supernatural fuckery allows Yuu to be Nodoka's father than that the other clues are red herrings.


I agree that she seems to be pretty strongly under Pareidolia's (and Sekai's) influence at this point. A few things from this update:

• She thinks that only she can fix Akira, which is very similar to what SekaiDolia have said at other times. Also the "Only the spiders can save you now, frog boy" from the audio in this event.
  Spoiler

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• She thinks that he should just enjoy living forever in a world with a bunch of little girls instead of trying to escape the cycle. Similar to Pareidolia wanting him to stop looking for answers and become the collector.
  Spoiler

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• As Moonflare points out, right after the narrator tells him to stay in the room, she immediately tries to get him out of it.
  Spoiler

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• She's increasingly having disturbing dreams in which she loses control.
  Spoiler

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• She's hearing her brother. This could really be him, but I think it's more likely Pareidolia using him to get in her head, the same way he uses Sekai with Akira.

More generally, this is Sana's chapter and Pareidolia's season, and he's the one that tells Sensei that Sana is "in bloom". And ominously, her blooming is compared to a corpse flower (which is also the background flower in her chapter image). Plus, her personality changed more in the two months off screen at the start of Chapter 4 than it had in the entire game up to that point, which I think would be lazy writing if it isn't due to supernatural influence.

NOOOOOOO! Not SANA!

Actually, there's one small counter-argument to your excellent points here: I think we have to take Sana at her word that her freaky side really was always there. It's one of the wilder bits of characterization in the game — this girl who seems completely innocent and unconnected to her own sexuality is in fact as consumed by her own lust as everyone else.

So to some extent, Sana's "weird" behavior is actually more authentically her.

 

[Xiondingens]

If Sel "rewards" this attempt by having it not only fail, but actually making things worse for everyone, or by having everyone simply reset to Chapter 1... the nihilism may just get too boring for me.

Well, no matter what i am sure it will pay off for akira. Just remember what he said to noriko on the bad uncle path.
"I need you to suffer for me"

 

[aramaug]

Some other questions/thoughts about what Nodoka is letting on in this update.

Q1: What does Nodoka mean when she reaffirmed that Futaba is special? Who is this she?
View attachment 3901224
The she here is highly likely to be Kyoko; the groceries, the attic, and the fact that she's now a proven special case.
I just fail to see how that makes Futaba special; or maybe I misunderstood what Nodoka means here. She perhaps isn't alluding to the origin that makes Futaba special, but is simply saying that a certain she also went through similar paranormal events and is thus deemed special by Nodoka, and now Futaba qualifies as well.

Q2: Can the when and where Nodoka recovered the note her other selves wrote for herself be confirmed by an event?
View attachment 3901237
I wanted to guess that "a place that God himself could never find" is that abandoned school featured in Beyond the Reach of God, but the date couldn't be correct. That event took place in early Ch3 and before Halloween wars so it's for sure not December. However, the rest of that event seems very fitting; venturing out to find something, a mark that resembles lower case T on the ground (perhaps the exact same spot where amiokay got crucified on the cross in The Letter 'T'), the event name itself, etc.

Another possible place is the Wishing Well / The Library where Nodoka is submerged in the pool, but this is supported merely by thoughts like "why not".

Or, since Nodoka from time to time went apeshit well before Beyond the Reach of God, so she might've located this note a lot earlier behind the scene and has been trying to crack it for some time, though in those scenarios she could very well be studying Kyoko's words and not her own. In addition, my impression is that Nodoka would know what her own note meant as soon as she retrieved it; she just struggled with the mechanisms until Yasu enlightened her. All in all, it’s relatively possible that the note was retrieved BTS but it feels a lot less enticing if that’s the case.

1. I'm pretty sure the "she" is Yuko aka DOUBT, the girl with lavender hair from the upside down house that Kyoko was in love with.

Spoiler

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Futaba has been connected to her before because of the lavender (Futaba smells like lavender). It seems like Yuko had the ability to leave the house (getting groceries and books) by physically traveling between planes like Futaba does. I'm not sure exactly what Futaba's connection to her is, but it almost seems like Nodoka is suggesting that it's hereditary; is it possible that Futaba is her daughter? Maybe Yuko left the house permanently at some point, or maybe Futaba is unknowingly adopted.

2. I think it's the abandoned school. She says she hid the journal where god couldn't find it, and the event where she goes to the school (and presumably digs up the journal) is literally called "Beyond the Reach of God" (probably because the school is outside the barrier). December 28 might just be the date of the journal entry she's talking about, rather than when she recovered the journal. It's also possible that she has to hide and recover the journal for every reset so that the gods don't remove it.

Edit: I'm not sure what the connection is, but it's probably not a coincidence that December 28 is also the date of the slumber party from the fifth reset.

 

[Comiies]

Yeah. It's also why this whole scenario has a real No Exit feel to it — each of the many characters seems designed to torture the rest. "Hell is the others," and all that.

Makes me curious about Akira's current, apparently sincere attempt to be a better person. If Sel "rewards" this attempt by having it not only fail, but actually making things worse for everyone, or by having everyone simply reset to Chapter 1... the nihilism may just get too boring for me.

Just one more potential trap that Sel has to avoid.While there have been some dubious writing choices and decitions(Like the whole Io thing and the fact that he has included NiB in LIL when NiB is 1)Unfinished and 2)Is going to be re-written) but aside that he hasnt dissapointed me yet so we will see.Though i truly wonder how he will dodge the NiB bullet.

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Is she not talking about her mother here? I mean i think it was right before her little porn game she said, "And only then will the words of my mother make sense to me." So unless that Kyoko you talk about is her mother, i would disagree. But, i dont remember ever reading that name. So... do i disagree or do i agree with you here? I am not sure.

No I’m with you and I think it does mean Kyoko (Nodoka’s mom) upon re-reading.

Initially I thought Nodoka meant “You are special because of Kyoko” and confused myself, but it’s probably “You are special because Kyoko too is special in the same way”.

 

[Comiies]

1. I'm pretty sure the "she" is Yuko aka DOUBT, the girl with lavender hair from the upside down house that Kyoko was in love with.

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Futaba has been connected to her before because of the lavender (Futaba smells like lavender). It seems like Yuko had the ability to leave the house (getting groceries and books) by physically traveling between planes like Futaba does. I'm not sure exactly what Futaba's connection to her is, but it almost seems like Nodoka is suggesting that it's hereditary; is it possible that Futaba is her daughter? Maybe Yuko left the house permanently at some point, or maybe Futaba is unknowingly adopted.

2. I think it's the abandoned school. She says she hid the journal where god couldn't find it, and the event where she goes to the school (and presumably digs up the journal) is literally called "Beyond the Reach of God" (probably because the school is outside the barrier). December 28 might just be the date of the journal entry she's talking about, rather than when she recovered the journal. It's also possible that she has to hide and recover the journal for every reset so that the gods don't remove it.

Edit: I'm not sure what the connection is, but it's probably not coincidence that December 28 is also the date of the slumber party from the fifth reset.

>About 2

This actually makes me think.If we take Nodokas words at face value then everything outside of Kumon-mi is free of the gods influence.Does that mean that the closer we get to the walls the weaker the influence and vice versa?If so what is in the center of Kumon-mi? Where is the gods influence the strongest.

 

[Xiondingens]

No I’m with you and I think it does mean Kyoko (Nodoka’s mom) upon re-reading.

Initially I thought Nodoka meant “You are special because of Kyoko” and confused myself, but it’s probably “You are special because Kyoko too is special in the same way”.

Ah, cool, so Kyoko is her mom. Good to know.

 

[Dc345]

Spoiler: Karin Event Title

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[Kitty Hawk]

Spoiler: Pics

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[LessonsInDissonance]

Spoiler: Pics

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Touka is making me lose control here

 

[Jeraviel]

I just thought about a hilariously tragic situation:
Noriko will finally get to have her time with Akira. After him cucking her with Maya at the beach, after getting blue-balled and "almost" caught by Ami while also finding out about their incestuous relationship...

Finally, it is tim-
*KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK*
IT'S FUCKING NIKI OUTSIDE THE DOOR

Jokes aside, even if it is actually Ami's plan for Niki to find out about Akira's inappropiate relationship with his students, it will probably backfired on Ami
Niki will suffer. She will feel disgusted at him. She will most likely slap him a couple of times. She will cry. But then she will simply stand back up and still try to, as futile as it will be, to "save" or "fix" her childhood friend. Teach him what it is to be a good person.

Ayane, with some reluctancy, has accepted Ami and Sensei's incestuous relationship
Noriko, I still don't know where she would stand, but probably against it
As for Niki? she will become a big fucking wall in between their incestuous relationship, in her attempt to save both of them.

I mean obviously if this was real life Niki would leave, or just call the police and if she still loves him after everything, she would just wait until he is discharged and then live happily ever after. But that won't happen.