Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.45.0] [Selebus]

[Algorist]

Yeah, I mean, I personally didn't consider that scene to be NTR either. To me, it was just another one of the game's patented fucked up sex scenes, which don't bother me, but I also don't think add anything to the game.

Spoiler: 0.45 Spoiler

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With that said, I can totally see how other people would consider it NTR. I don't think people bothered by the scene are "overly-sensitive-to-anything-anywhere-near-NTR people." Some people view girl-on-girl the same as guy-on-girl and I do not think that's inherently wrong. If anything, it's probably less sexist. And I can see how getting NTRed after years of investing into a game and characters could make people very upset. And that scene clearly turned some people off the game.



I think it's a very weird choice for Selebus to be adding more things that border on NTR to this game, because if he keeps edging the line, he will just push more and more people away. Maybe he's trying to hurt a specific group of people who play the game. But...why???? His game has not grown in years. His Subscribstar's back down to 9.8k. He lost subscribers after this update. And he's been adding custom non-cannon renders to the game and setting goals to try to get more money recently, so it clearly matters to him. It just feels like he's shooting himself in the foot. I want to see this game finished eventually, and at the rate he's going I'm worried at the very least we might eventually get much longer update times if he needs to get a real job to support himself.

Well, I certainly am not an expert in hentai terminology. Still, I just can't see how Ami raping Maya could classify as NTR. I thought NTR required the love interest to start loving the "NTRer" more (this shit sounds so silly, lol). Regardless, our little Ami would never stand a chance against Sensei, especially when it comes to Maya. There's no way Maya will love Ami more than Sensei. What bothered me in that scene was the rape and Ami's callousness. Rape isn't cheating or anything. There's no NTR. Sensei himself, seeing that scene, would get hard and then proceed to fuck Ami in the ass.

That Maki gangbang scene or that fake Tsubasa massage thing also couldn't be anything near NTR (Maki would probably become monogamous for Sensei lol).

But I get it. It's perfectly reasonable someone would be uncomfortable with seeing or hearing the love interests engaging in sexual contact with anyone else other than the protagonist in an uncontrolled manner.

My point is that Selebus aims to attack precisely these people. It is some NTR-adjacent area that doesn't really classify as NTR but makes some people upset.

Wakana herself is at risk right now. Rin arguably has been the victim of a certain type of "NTR" someone mentioned here (bad homie). I don't know, though.

My belief is that NTR isn't really applicable in LiL. Sensei technically had Sekai fucking Nozomu while with him. Was it a double NTR of sorts, then? Depends on your definition of NTR, I guess.

And why does he want to do that? Personally, I think he wants to make a point. "Be less insecure!"; "Do not care about the past of your partners!". Something like that. Most authors want to impact their readers in some form. Maybe he's annoyed. Who knows.

 

[Dc345]

Okay, hear me out. Put on a tin foil hat. What another name she might have?
a) Totally new name which never mentioned before — meh. Like, maybe she is... Random Japanese female name generator help: It says "Momoko". Or, if we include only name started with Y... She is "Yoshiko", xdddd
b) Name that was mentioned before, but we never connected it with Yumi — there is a chance, but I don't want to dig into that rabbit hole.
c) She is part of the Arakawa family... But why not? We speculate that Sana, Rin and Nodoka could also be related to the Arakawas. Yuki can't remember who Yumi's biological father is, so she jokingly suggests that Akira might be Yumi's father, since Yuki doesn't have any memories of her sexual partners. (I am not saying Akira is Yumi's dad. But I am implying Akira's brother/father can be her dad). Therefore, there is a possibility that Yumi has Arakawa genes, which is why Sensei subconsciously wants to get closer to her.

There really is no telling since it's one of those things Sel hasn't brought up again. It could be all three, she could be Saki reincarnated or something else. It's probably one of those obscure things wehere if you figure this out you solve the game.

 

[Apollo259]

Well, I certainly am not an expert in hentai terminology. Still, I just can't see how Ami raping Maya could classify as NTR. I thought NTR required the love interest to start loving the "NTRer" more (this shit sounds so silly, lol). Regardless, our little Ami would never stand a chance against Sensei, especially when it comes to Maya. There's no way Maya will love Ami more than Sensei. What bothered me in that scene was the rape and Ami's callousness. Rape isn't cheating or anything. There's no NTR. Sensei himself, seeing that scene, would get hard and then proceed to fuck Ami in the ass.

That Maki gangbang scene or that fake Tsubasa massage thing also couldn't be anything near NTR (Maki would probably become monogamous for Sensei lol).

But I get it. It's perfectly reasonable someone would be uncomfortable with seeing or hearing the love interests engaging in sexual contact with anyone else other than the protagonist in an uncontrolled manner.

My point is that Selebus aims to attack precisely these people. It is some NTR-adjacent area that doesn't really classify as NTR but makes some people upset.

Wakana herself is at risk right now. Rin arguably has been the victim of a certain type of "NTR" someone mentioned here (bad homie). I don't know, though.

My belief is that NTR isn't really applicable in LiL. Sensei technically had Sekai fucking Nozomu while with him. Was it a double NTR of sorts, then? Depends on your definition of NTR, I guess.

And why does he want to do that? Personally, I think he wants to make a point. "Be less insecure!"; "Do not care about the past of your partners!". Something like that. Most authors want to impact their readers in some form. Maybe he's annoyed. Who knows.

The Anti NTR hardliners will count basically anything as NTR these days, so why change your game to please them? Probably best to just ignore them, there is other stuff out there they can play if a game with basically just 1 male character somehow doesn't meet their standards. Some of them are like the jehovah's witness of H games, they will give you their entire manifesto if you don't ignore them. I guess the interactive element must set them off even more than with other mediums.

 

[Meskal1ne]

You have finally lost your mind if you found NTR in Lil. Selebus game definetely leave a mark on mental health of some ppl.

Otoha+Rin?
Wakana+Osako maybe NTR too?
Maki and her dead husband?

 

[Riolol]

You have finally lost your mind if you found NTR in Lil. Selebus game definetely leave a mark on mental health of some ppl.

Otoha+Rin?
Wakana+Osako maybe NTR too?
Maki and her dead husband?

Unless you self-insert it's all ntr

 

[crustlord12]

Spoiler: 0.45 Ami

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Huh, she's bleeding from a seemingly broken hymen in this scene. But wouldn't Akira have already done that long, long ago?... I forget the context of this image, and whether or not this was already discussed

reset 4 guide

Blow it out your ass and learn to use the search bar

 

[lardtree90]

Can you imagine the amount of server space that could be salvaged if all stupid discussions about what is or isn't NTR were erased from this forum?

It's also super entertaining to watch people debate NTR about a game that explicitly isn't made with the intent of providing jerk off material.

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

Can you imagine the amount of server space that could be salvaged if all stupid discussions about what is or isn't NTR were erased from this forum?

It's also super entertaining to watch people debate NTR about a game that explicitly isn't made with the intent of providing jerk off material.

Yeah, let's talk about how big Sensei's dick is.

 

[DeanNoriko]

It really is crazy how serious the topic of NTR is being treated in this forum.
Like, imagine that someone just registered on here to leave a 1-star review for this game after (as they themselves said) 100 hours of gameplay, simply because a character, who might not even be who we think they are, is getting raped. And calling it classic NTR as well, which is just factually incorrect.

As Tsuneyo would say: This forum is cooked baked, bro. (Courtesy of k1n5l4y3r)

Spoiler

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[fdsasdf_p]

Spoiler: Ami pre Halloween

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Your question is a very reasonable extension upon witnessing story development in any media that involves "a close and harmless character who was introduced very early on turning out to be the ultimate antagonist this entire time". Selly needs to plan this out REALLY WELL since the beginning if he's going into this direction to provide good answers to questions like "Why keeping the status quo when this world is far from being optimal to Ami?".

The reason I wrote that entire block of text essentially is to offer Selly an escape hatch to avoid just that, as currently a good explanation to Ami not flipping her murdering/torturing switch on very early is really lacking. One can argue that Ami might only know things from the past gazillion cycles and not automatically the current one, or might only get triggered under highly specific conditions (ex: has to be Maya, has to be certain knowledge about the fuckery, etc). Still, it's hard to believe that a character with such hidden knowledge AND willingness to commit the unspeakable would play her role this passive.

Also now that I'm looking at that image again it seems to be deliberately including characters from the reset karaoke place. Maya, dolphin(Sana?), Sunflower(Ayane?) and the Old One. Its leaving out Ami which is interesting unless the red spider lily is Ami, but I'm pretty sure red spider lily's have something to do with dead and reincarnation so it could have something to do with Sekai instead. But also Ami if a different Ami replaced Ami.(Could the Old One be some kind of ancient eternal Ami that Replaced Ami. Because the Old One did seem to follow Akira around a lot which is kind of an Ami thing to do... And I don't think the Old One has shown up actively since the reset where Ami was killed. I Kind of hope someone tells me I'm wrong and it has shown up since then because I feel like I must be missing something and I'm going too far out on a limb here. I don't know what the fuck the Miku's are supposed to be representing though. Unless its a, she's as flat as a table so she is the table joke. Or abs as hard as a table so is the table would also work. But she is also all over the wall in the other image so I don't know what she is supposed to be.

I have the same thought, that Ami after reset6 was replaced by something else; perhaps by The Old Ones, perhaps by an Ami from another timeline, just something so that we can assign a meaning to her crucifixion and an explanation why Ami hasn't been doing something when she knew so much all along. This idea would also resonate a shit ton of "skin walker talk" in the last two updates.

Just to add more spices: immediately after Ami crucifixion, "another Ami showed up" in the karaoke with Sensei while The Old Ones was presumably in the background. I am not saying this IS the certified missing piece, as right now I too can only point out where suspicious scenes could be. Any other pieces that can support or disprove this idea would be very welcome.

Spoiler: The End of the World

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Huh, she's bleeding from a seemingly broken hymen in this scene. But wouldn't Akira have already done that long, long ago?... I forget the context of this image, and whether or not this was already discussed

I kinda assumed she was...raped by using a dagger...or something even more unpleasant

 

[k1n5l4y3r]

As Tsuneyo would say: This forum is cooked, bro.

Spoiler

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Nah, Tsuneyo would say baked or boiled, then the Emerald Guardian would correct her.

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

Nah, Tsuneyo would say baked or boiled, then the Emerald Guardian would correct her.

Don't teach Tsuneyo about phrase "bun in the oven"

 

[Aegirine]

Ultimately, I think it's pointless to dictate how people should feel about that scene. Some will dislike it because they perceive it as NTR, others for different reasons, and some simply won’t care at all. The only reason it matters is that this is a porn game site, and NTR is a fetish that is disliked by a lot, so devs and players made a point of tagging games that have it.

Personally I don't care even if it is, but if we go strictly by definition, I thinks the Ami-Maya scene does fall into NTR. A lover/love interest is being secretely raped by another character while both know and say she'd rather be with the protagonist, who doesn't know about this happening, never mind consent to it. And she even ends up liking it. It's very blatant if anything. The fact that the other character is also involved with the protagonist doesn't matter. Other lesbians relationships betweens characters do not matter. That stuff is just moving the goal posts. Even if Akira is an aweful self-insert, a lot still consume media with that notion in mind, and thus could perceive it are their lover being stolen.
The reasons why I think this isn't unanimous are :

• Many do not perceive Prime Maya And Nu Maya as the same character, and so are not attached to the latter. I interpret them as the same person, and I'm sure others do.
• The incident was committed by a woman, and no penetration happened. It shouldn't matter, but for some people it does.

Still, I find it very funny how a LiL player, and porn games players in general could potentially be okay with elements in their stories like cheating, self-harm, violence, gore, drug use, mental disabilities, suicide, murder, torture, etc...but NTR is where they draw the line.

 

[barglenarglezous]

It really is crazy how serious the topic of NTR is being treated in this forum.

A first-time dev started a game (Rising Bliss) in which the premise was "in order to combat lowering birth rates, the government puts a chemical in the water that makes people hornier and less concerned about contraception." Everyone was gonna be fucking everyone until prolonged exposure started turning some of them into zombies. It's a silly premise, but I was %100 bought in on it.

The anti-NTR crowd descended upon it, and now the dev isn't making games anymore because of threats he received, and the final product looked NOTHING like what he promised because he bowed to the constant barrage from the anti-NTR crowd.

It's INSANE. I get being upset if it's introduced late in the game without warning, but if a game is set out to include sharing, or in this particular example "No LIs, just fucking", just keep scrolling.

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

Once again I will think about what may happen in the future updates.

0.46 is Christmas:

Spoiler

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0.47:

Spoiler

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0.48:

Spoiler

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0.49 is Dorm wars.
Skip thoughts. Accept the cringe (which I like).
But, according to next update, something may happen during Dorm Wars, which make RAS girls gather to the meeting.

0.50 would be very interesting now after what happened in 0.45:

Spoiler

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[barglenarglezous]

Animations? More sex with someone Akira already fucked, I guess. But if those animations would be with someone new... Well, most likely it would be... I don't have any idea.

Animations we are missing that would most definitely happen again if Sensei asked:
Sana oral
Miku oral
Imani oral

Animations we are missing that MIGHT happen again if Sensei asked, provided reset fuckery didn't give us a whole new version of that character (though let's be honest, the new version of that character probably would too)
Maya anything
Nodoka anythinig

Animation we are missing that will make us all uncomfortable if it's added:
Io sex

Animation that has the requisite act unlocked, but probably won't exist for obvious reasons:
Miku sex

No idea where Sel is going to go with this one because of how surreal it was:
Kaori sex

 

[PrincessEuphy]

The reasons why I think this isn't unanimous are :

• Many do not perceive Prime Maya And Nu Maya as the same character, and so are not attached to the latter. I interpret them as the same person, and I'm sure others do.
• The incident was committed by a woman, and no penetration happened. It shouldn't matter, but for some people it does.

Not quite. We want the terms we use to have meaning and refer to specific, clear ideas so that when communicating we are understood. (this is to say language is a game in which we follow public rules to be mutually understood). English already has a term for what happened here - rape. Your specifications of the lover not knowing about it or not is not particularly relevant to the conversation. There is no ambiguity or lack of clarity here. The problem arises when the term "NTR," which used to refer to something specific, is broadened and used for any violation of purity or loyalty. (In the modern day someone would call rape NTR even if the girl was not in a relationship yet.) This causes problems in that the original term ceases to be useful and becomes kind of a tool for rhetoric - by muddying the waters much like philosophers do, they can better vent hatred while disguising their own insecurities. It is this misuse of language above all else which disturbs me. As the world's foremost leading expert on NTR it is deeply bothersome to see the term itself get fucked up the ass so immensely that it now represents all the evils of the world. And the tag subsequently meaning nothing. It was much more respectable back in 2011 with Elf's seminal release of Gatenkei back before it became a boogeyman in this nature.

(All this said, corruption of language is in fact the natural state of things. As things go I wouldn't be surprised if in 20-30 years "rape" as a term was all but entirely depreciated and everyone just says NTR in all contexts.)

 

[Angiboat]

Ultimately, I think it's pointless to dictate how people should feel about that scene. Some will dislike it because they perceive it as NTR, others for different reasons, and some simply won’t care at all. The only reason it matters is that this is a porn game site, and NTR is a fetish that is disliked by a lot, so devs and players made a point of tagging games that have it.

Personally I just don't like the scene because I'm tired of Selebus putting Ami on a pedestal every single update constantly, like damn other girls exist too.
At least there's finally some pay-off for all these warnings Maya was handing out about Ami supposedly killing people just because, about time that happened.

 

[DeanNoriko]

Still, I find it very funny how a LiL player, and porn games players in general could potentially be okay with elements in their stories like cheating, self-harm, violence, gore, drug use, mental disabilities, suicide, murder, torture, etc...but NTR is where they draw the line.

In my opinion, this just goes to show how the average human being, especially on the male side, often has very prominent ego-centric and narcissistic tendencies.
The suffering and abuse of others is acceptable and sometimes even desirable, however, the moment the MC, and by extension I myself, risk to suffer the slightest bit of inconvenience, humiliation or loss of control, it becomes an issue so extreme that the author must be sick in his mind to ever consider including such a thing in a work of art.

Which might be, if I may be so bold to assume so, one of the reasons many people here in this thread appreciate this particular game.
Sure, it essentially portrays the porn-genre-typical male power fantasy of building a harem of young girls that are all magically enamored with the MC and his horse cock.
However, Akira is not a renamable Marty Stu/Superman who is charming and ultimately bland so that the player can self-insert into him. Akira is a piece of shit, a creep, he has many faults and basically you'd have to be either very weird or extremely confident to openly admit to identify with him. But that's the thing, he is much more identifiable and understandable as a character, because he has character.
You do not see him as an extension of yourself, most of the time, but as a distinct character with his own desires, needs and thoughts that you follow within a story.
Which is also a great argument for many people on here that would wish this game was a kinetic novel, but that is an entirely different discussion.

Now, going back to people who are shocked with seeing NTR-adjacent content showing up in this game:
I would assume those players see the game differently from "us" and do insert themselves into the role of the MC and do feel like they lose control and are attacked personally when a potential LI is being sexed up by somebody else, regardless of the context apparently (I am still baffled how that scene could count as NTR but whatever).

I could be wrong of course so feel free to argue with me on this, we have enough time until the next update anyway

 

[idiotamerican]

a little worried the most recent update cheapened some past maya scenes, e.g. beach. i think that's where the game was at its strongest

hope the trend doesn't continue