The main things that I enjoy are the mystery aspects and also seeing the non-Sensei characters interact with each other -- I'm invested in the emotional arcs, and I find the game of "how is this particular thing going to end badly" engaging for basically the same reason that I enjoy reading/watching tragic fiction. If you think of this as a Game of Thrones of adult visual novels -- watching awful people do awful things (Sensei is the worst by far, but, uh, not the only sexual assaulter in the cast) in a setting with a lot of mysteries, very compelling moment-to-moment writing, and occasional moments of light that shine all the brighter for coming out of such a shithole -- I think you'll understand some of the appeal. (Another aspect, which is idiosyncratic but which I've seen other people express appreciation for, is the game's extreme realness about the experience of mental illness and the sorts of self-destructive behaviors one finds themselves engaging in as maladaptive coping mechanisms. Rin's events are the most obvious on this front, but I found Makoto the most #relatable, personally.)
With regard to Yumi specifically, because that was your line in the sand: I think it's important to point out that Sensei didn't do that. His body did, but it was not responding to his will: it happened automatically, without his input, and he doesn't know why. A number of images flashed up when he did that, the first two having the lines "You can not choose." and "You have already made your choice." And as of the latest public build of the game, .19p2, Sensei and Yumi have had no further physical involvement. That being said, I am pretty sure you are not going to enjoy this game, and I am not here to persuade you to try. There's some predatory stuff in chapter 2 which is horrifically uncomfortable to read, and I am pretty sure there's going to be more and worse down the line. If everything thus far is squicking you out, by all means, bail and engage with some other form of media.
I could see that as an external reference sort of like how this game as a whole is inspired by multiple other Denpa games like DDLC. Internally, however, I would say they correspond to characters within the story that are no longer around, mentioned, but not alive, or that they are entirely separate beings. I am more inclined to believe the separate beings part for now internally.
There's more to it that has yet to be revealed, but no, it is NOT going to get lighthearted if that's what you're looking for by 'another shoe.' If anything, things are going to get worse. This is a Denpa game, a horror genre focused mainly on familiar characters acting in unfamiliar ways.
Use Joiplay
I have to agree with this except that I do believe this to be confirmed already, not that it may not be a game for Rex, but that it IS not a game for him. That's perfectly alright, the Denpa genre can be considered an acquired taste, not everyone will enjoy it.
Most definitely abhorrent, I've gone off on him a few times now, at least mentally, because he did something so severely wrong to me that I couldn't just sit back and watch even as the player of a game in which he is only a character. You got a source file on that slap? I think I want to just watch it over and over without having to play that event. It's probably a .GIF or .WEBM or whatever the game uses for animations and other moving elements that aren't still images.
Definitely a slow burn and I don't think this story in particular would work any other way, Selebus made a good call with that. It isn't a spoiler to identify basic concepts of the game's genre, such as what a Denpa horror game is. Calling it out that things probably won't be getting better any time soon should be spoiler free. I have to agree that the beginning narration is not referring to the player, a fourth wall break, but is referring to Sensei.
Absolutely, this genre is absolutely not for everyone and it is totally fine to get out of dodge before shit hits the fan. In fact, now is probably the last good opportunity because I predict shit is about to hit the fan very soon and it is going to hit hard and fast. Those payoffs are the ray of hope that I look to in order to keep myself from backing off instinctively. I am a very loyal person, by no means a yes man, but those who earn my loyalty as Selebus has do get it. I will absolutely fight my own automatic responses to keep going if that's what it takes. I can't say I feel obligated to stick around, I don't, it's more like I want to stick around because I like how much of an impact this game has had on me.
I needed something to snap me out of blocking off my emotions during certain activities like gaming, at least blocking them off as best as a human can, and Selebus provided exactly what I needed. I used to be nothing more than a biological machine, if that makes sense, but this game proved more than a match for that. It makes me feel angry, sad, uncomfortable, happy, the whole spectrum of emotion, like no other game has been capable of except Harem Hotel after this game did it first. In fact, this game may have been the catalyst to Harem Hotel's ability to do similar because I have been playing Harem Hotel longer and it was only after this game came along that I was able to feel for the characters in Harem Hotel.
Probably a mix in most cases.
Ah, so you barely scratched the surface. Without spoiling, I can tell you now he already has done worse. Normally, the girls thinking he is a reputable guy would be correct because he was prior to the start of the game from what I can tell, but something happened to change that, nobody knows what. He actually isn't a rapist since no sex has been forced, yet, but I don't doubt that is an entirely possible way for things to go with this character. I've already braced myself for a scene where he rapes one of the less assertive girls who has no hope of resisting him.
A lot of games accept porn logic because they are by all forms of the term porn games, however, Lessons in Love is more of a Game of Thrones type. It has sex on the side, but it is focused on the story. The girls are written to be as human as possible and Selebus has done an amazing job with that, but this does come at the cost of making it quite a bit harder to take when something bad happens, whether player Sensei is involved or not.
What I enjoy is the quality of Selebus's writing, the way I am able to feel for the girls as if they are actual humans, and the way I am can absolutely blow my top at player Sensei when he does something incredibly wrong.
Yes, to me, the justification is there.
No, you might not have jumped the gun, the Denpa genre of horror is not for everyone, not everyone can handle it and those who can likely had to acquire a taste for the genre like I did through games like DDLC.
The response to this game is mostly positive because of my first response to your questions, the writing is absolutely amazing. If this had been written at typical porn game quality, I very much doubt we would be having this conversation because I would then have to change my first response in this section to 'because it is only fiction' instead of basing that response on the quality of the writing. 'It's just a game' is my usual logic to justify any kind of forced content whether mind control or rape.
No, again, rape is not a genre that everyone can enjoy, it is a very niche crowd that can and a lot of us go by the logic that it is just fiction. However, even with me being able to enjoy rape in games, I doubt I would have been any different than you are now if the writing was worse than it is in this game because I feel for the characters. If the writing was at a lesser level where I was able to feel for the characters, but the writing still wasn't to the point I was able to enjoy the game to the level I do, I very much believe I would be in your position.
Indeed, he was not in control, he was being controlled and I don't think by what has ever been revealed outright, but it was likely one of the 'gods' doing it.
I absolutely agree with your assessment that Rex is just not the type to be able to enjoy this game. Denpa and rape are both acquired tastes and not very easy to acquire either. I also recommend that Rex finds another game, this just isn't one for him.
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I see where you're coming from. In my case, I was engrossed in mystery (trust me, there is a lot of it) from almost from the start and kinda just went from there. It's not that I don't feel for the girls (they are all well written and it's one of the reasons I enjoy the game), it's just that the more snippets of the story you witness, the more you realise that nothing is as it seem. Sensei possibly maybe sort of a victim of the circumstances as much as other characters. Victim zero or the main culprit.
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I guess, despite walking in his shoes, in the end, I just treat him as another character in the story. It's really fun trying to piece his story back together as well as to see how he reacts. Like, couple of times he got seriously called out on his bs and actually got upset and stressed out without actually acknowledging it, but you can really feel it between the lines. Its captivating to me, trying to figure out how he really feels and where he lies to people around him, himself and the audience through his own narration.
Just fy, the possitive response to this game have virtually nothing to do with sex, grooming or rape themes in it. It kinda weird, but sex scenes are totally secondary (at best) for the existing fan base. If it's any consolation, while Sensei being shady and predatory is a cornerstone of his (?) character, there is no more rape.
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Oh, and another thing: this game might be somewhat of a metacommentary on porn games in general. If nothing is real, why not just do what you want to whomever you want? Sensei runs with this attitude. So take it as you want.
Thanks very much for all the responses. It's very reassuring to note that everyone is generally on the "I'm not here for the rape" team. I assumed this was just another porn game given where I found it and was obviously horrified to be so intensely wrong.
Interesting note on Game of Thrones. While I didn't particularly like it, whether in book or TV format, I definitely wasn't repulsed from it like this game. I think it was a difference of expectations going in. Going into GoT, I expected grim-dark medieval fantasy. I knew people get murdered, I knew the good guy frequently loses, and I was ready for it. I think I either missed or overlooked the warnings on this game. There's also something about Koitatsu models which scream innocent to me. It actually took me an uncomfortably long amount of time for me to realize, wait a second, this is super fucked up. It took my brain a while to transition out of porn logic.
In addition, point of view matters a lot. Most, if not all, of GoT is told from the point of view of characters with reasonably sympathetic or rationalized points of view and they frequently get the opportunity to justify them given the view point changes. Unless I missed it, Sensei is both the only point of view and never attempted to justify why he's trying to seduce anything in a skirt. Honestly, this makes the idea that he's being mind controlled to one degree or another easier to swallow. If I had to compare this to a book, I think I'd compare it more to Lolita. It seems apt.
I think it'll be like biting a lemon, but I think I'll try and play this one through. I know it's fucked up, you guys all know it's fucked up, but I think changing my expectations will make it tolerable. I'm intrigued enough by the plot and the vast acclaim to want to know what it's all about. Sometimes you try new things, sometimes it sucks, sometimes it surprises you. We'll see which one this is.
Interesting note on Game of Thrones. While I didn't particularly like it, whether in book or TV format, I definitely wasn't repulsed from it like this game. I think it was a difference of expectations going in. Going into GoT, I expected grim-dark medieval fantasy. I knew people get murdered, I knew the good guy frequently loses, and I was ready for it. I think I either missed or overlooked the warnings on this game. There's also something about Koitatsu models which scream innocent to me. It actually took me an uncomfortably long amount of time for me to realize, wait a second, this is super fucked up. It took my brain a while to transition out of porn logic.
In addition, point of view matters a lot. Most, if not all, of GoT is told from the point of view of characters with reasonably sympathetic or rationalized points of view and they frequently get the opportunity to justify them given the view point changes. Unless I missed it, Sensei is both the only point of view and never attempted to justify why he's trying to seduce anything in a skirt. Honestly, this makes the idea that he's being mind controlled to one degree or another easier to swallow. If I had to compare this to a book, I think I'd compare it more to Lolita. It seems apt.
I think it'll be like biting a lemon, but I think I'll try and play this one through. I know it's fucked up, you guys all know it's fucked up, but I think changing my expectations will make it tolerable. I'm intrigued enough by the plot and the vast acclaim to want to know what it's all about. Sometimes you try new things, sometimes it sucks, sometimes it surprises you. We'll see which one this is.
It is in the event Triple Whammy, and it is game\images\Events\mikupostbeach24.webp. It's not animated, but Selebus uses sound effects and Ren'Py's screen transition effects to give the moment, ha, impact.
I kind of want someone to take that second or two of gameplay, turn it into a 10 hour youtube video, and maybe give it a funky dance beat. It's great. I was so proud of the girl who slapped him.
No more out-and-out sexual assault committed by Sensei. He's still grooming schoolgirls in his care and manipulating them to have sex with him, which may not fit rape per se but is still Extremely Bad And Uncomfortable, but also there is textbook sexual assault committed by another character onscreen: sexual contact that is explicitly said "no" to and continued in the face of that no. If you're not sure what I'm talking about: Kirin fingering Ayane during What a Wonderful World.
An apt comparison which gets explicitly made by one of the characters in Chapter Two. There probably are some people who are playing this game just to sexually exploit the characters in it, but, uh, as akselx points out, they are the people this game is taking aim at, much like the people who played Spec Ops: The Line because they wanted to be an all-American military hero rescuing the helpless exploited civilians of the Middle East. Actually, yeah, now that I've made that comparison, I'm going to lean into it: like SO:tL, this is a game which exists in a genre but in part skewers the sorts of escapist fantasy impulses that lead people to that genre specifically.
Good luck, and my respect for trying out something to which you had such a strong negative initial reaction. If it gets to be too much, by all means, bail. The world will keep turning even if you don't vibe with something a lot of other folks like.
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I don't want you to go off of another false premise, so let's just say it's more complicated and less obvious than mind control. Aside from that, just try to enjoy and have fun. There is fun and enjoyment in this game and even not enjoyable moments can be fun, while tragic are enjoyable. It's about feels, man.
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I know, I was talking about Sensei. There is a lot of "technically".
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It's important to note that this is not meant to be a "fap" game like most of the games on this site, and MC is not meant to be a player proxy like those games, either. I kinda worry for anyone who projects themselves into Sensei as they play. That's a dark road.
The MC sits at the intersection of nihilism and narcissm, and that's a difficult combination to sympathize with. He's then inserted into a scenario that buys into that combination of traits, and it goes about as well as you'd expect it to. But it's meant to make you feel uncomfortable, and there are multiple absolute gut-punches in here.
If we're feeling at all charitable to Sensei ... which maybe we shouldn't. His initial reaction to the situation is to believe he has been isekaied into a world which isn't his own. Given the strong hints that he has just topped himself at that point it is perhaps understandable that he adopts a classic fuck everything that moves mindset. If you think you're dead and having some sort of bizarre hallucination as your brain shuts down, maybe it's reasonable to turn off self-restraint?
His reaction is actually fairly tame when compared to other fiction. This is where previous comments mentioning Thomas Covenant come from. Dude gets transported to another world and immediately rapes someone the consequences of which basically destroy the Land (repeatedly - rape babies happen).
The difference I suspect between Covenant and Sensei however is that Covenant spends a good amount of time regretting his actions (once he finally accepts that the Land is real, even if it isn't real - seriously it's a pretty fascinating take on how one defines "reality"). Whereas Sensei is doubling down and his inner monologue suggests that he was a scumbag before he jumped and what we are seeing is just him - he is aware of right and wrong and chooses to act as he does.
Given that he is discovering that the resets can benefit him and that the world rewrites itself to prevent certain of his actions having consequences, I believe we're likely to see a hell of a lot more id and considerably less super-ego going forward. He's a (sex)predator with captive prey.
His reaction is actually fairly tame when compared to other fiction. This is where previous comments mentioning Thomas Covenant come from. Dude gets transported to another world and immediately rapes someone the consequences of which basically destroy the Land (repeatedly - rape babies happen).
The difference I suspect between Covenant and Sensei however is that Covenant spends a good amount of time regretting his actions (once he finally accepts that the Land is real, even if it isn't real - seriously it's a pretty fascinating take on how one defines "reality"). Whereas Sensei is doubling down and his inner monologue suggests that he was a scumbag before he jumped and what we are seeing is just him - he is aware of right and wrong and chooses to act as he does.
Given that he is discovering that the resets can benefit him and that the world rewrites itself to prevent certain of his actions having consequences, I believe we're likely to see a hell of a lot more id and considerably less super-ego going forward. He's a (sex)predator with captive prey.
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I'd like to think that Sensei really wants to just fuck around with zero emotional attachment, since nothing is real, but can't help but to develop some the more he interacts with girls. This really bites him in the ass from time to time, considering he knows no other way to support and feed his fake amnesia.
I can definitely see that when looking at it from an outside perspective.
Yeah, no, not this time I'm not. I'm too attached to the characters to be here for the rape, plus I like rape to be hard and fast, meaning they would all be having full penetrative sex by now and not by choice like the few penetrative scenes actually in the game at this time are.
Yes and no, player Sensei is the most frequently used point of view, but we do get the occasional scene where there is a second conversation going on elsewhere at the same time that requires a different point of view to see it because player Sensei isn't there. Judging by your responses regarding how far you are, you haven't reached these scenes. I would definitely agree on the "Lolita" comparison.
Then I am glad to see you are fighting through the discomfort and I hope you come out of it pleasantly surprised.
Thanks, I knew the event, I just didn't know what file in the game folder to look for so I don't have to open the game to see it. While I do like replaying, I tend to save that for when I actually have new things to do and then replay old events when I finish the new ones. I see, so it was a still image that used transitions, well played Selebus, you fooled me, an experienced programmer.
I could probably do that last part once I'm clear of literally the hundreds of other things I specifically volunteered to do and need to see through to the end.
There may not be outright rape right now, but I am fully prepared for it to be added just in case. I'm not exactly thrilled at player Sensei for his advances or Kirin for hers, but I'm still outright furious at player Sensei for his latest antics regarding Miku.
Indeed it does, Selebus knows exactly what he's doing there. I would actually normally be one of the people the game is taking aim at, I often hide behind the logic that games are mere fiction, but I cannot bring myself to do that here, my emotional connections to the characters are far too strong. That's why I can get so worked up when one of them does something bad.
I echo this final sentiment, good luck to Rex and may you come to enjoy this amazing story. We can, of course, understand if that ultimately does not happen and wish you luck if at any point you come back to this point of wanting to get away.
Indeed, making player Sensei a proxy is one of the biggest mistakes a player can make and can lead to amplification of the negative feelings the player experiences to a severe degree.
Absolutely not, he will get no charity from me, he burned that bridge with what he did to Miku. I could definitely see the 'fuck everything, it isn't real' mindset, though.
I am still of the belief that there are two personalities, at least, battling it out in his head and the one we see more often is one that took hold when the game started, hence why the monologues don't stick to one style. When he gets more philosophical and poetic in his molnologues, that's the other personality leaking out, the one the girls knew before the game and his normal one. This second personality may indeed have taken on the 'fuck it, this isn't real' mindset and that may be why he does what he does. That is absolutely not to justify him doing it, that just gives reason to his actions. It's hard to say what this 'player Sensei' would do if he did make the realization it is real. Maybe he would go the Covenant route, maybe it would break him entirely, we don't know enough to make a guess yet even with those Maya dorm events.
The resets do not help persuade him this world is not fake, they exacerbate his mindset that things are not real and push him to even more drastic things that he knows perfectly well the real world would not let him get away with. He could be ramping up his actions because the resets cement the idea that this world is not real into his mind. Again, not a justification, just a possible reason. This is also one reason why I could very easily see him skipping straight to rape at some point if this mindset gets too far. I mean, if it isn't real, then just taking what he wants shouldn't be a problem...right? I feel disgusting even suggesting that as a hypothetical future scenario, ugh. Any other game besides this and Harem Hotel and I would be fine with it because fiction, but even putting myself in his place as a hypothetical scenario is seriously grossing me out and making my skin crawl. Selebus, what have you done to me.
I'm not so sure the amnesia is fake, he clearly doesn't remember anything at the start.
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This game as a whole feels like a parody of the harem genre.
If you look at this from the lens of a dude that's just kinda skimming through text in a hentai game so he can get to the good parts, well, that's kinda how Sensei acts.
He's not an asshole per se, he just doesn't care enough to care (if that makes sense).
The game (for it's part) shows what kind of impact acting like that would have on the members of his harem (many of which don't even know they're a part of it).
Yumi at one point even comments about how strange it is that they keep being put together in situations where they have to interact, from our perspective she's a tsundere and her behavior is cute, from her perspective it's an incredibly creepy behavior on the part of some dude who she has made clear she wants no part of.
The Lessons in Love merch store will be going live to the general public on 10/27 at 12:00 AM EST.
Patrons will have access 24 hours early and supply is limited, so there may not be any items available to you when the site goes live if you are part of the general public.
Only the smile logo shirt is available for the first run.
Expect a restock sometime in late November in time for the holiday season.
Shirts are $25 each.
US shipping is roughly $3.50.
International shipping is available, but very expensive for some countries.
Patrons will have access 24 hours early and supply is limited, so there may not be any items available to you when the site goes live if you are part of the general public.
Only the smile logo shirt is available for the first run.
Expect a restock sometime in late November in time for the holiday season.
Shirts are $25 each.
US shipping is roughly $3.50.
International shipping is available, but very expensive for some countries.
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He's weird about it. He says a bunch of small things here and there that would suggest he remembers. It's really small and can be interpreted as him just saying shit out of his ass, which is why it flies under radar.
Its like he's awoids thinking (something he admits he's good at) about it and so he "doesn't remember", but occasionally, he lets his guard down and slip small things here and there.
Maybe it's not fake, maybe there some sort of mechanism to it, but it's faulty.
It's a matter of perception, mostly, you can just call it "another personality", real Sensei peaking in.
It does. I said at some point that he cares enough about what's right in front of him to feel bad, just not enough to course correct to avoid future problems.
My earliest beliefs was that it was all, without overcomplication it, just a buggy VN that took control of.
No Noodles t-short? Booo, what is even the point?
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I think it's a mix of 2 things:
The first one is about him being deliberately obtuse, we saw this when Ayane was trying to tell him about their baby and he very clearly didn't want to think about it, so he obfuscated and convinced himself that he didn't know what she was talking about.
The second one seems to be bits and pieces of several trips through the loop that have left their mark on Sensei, i don't think it's deliberate on his part though.
Btw, what's Sensei's name? The fact that you can't name him outside of sex scenes (where you can call yourself basically anything) seems important.
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I still get upvotes on this so I have to look back on this comment and am reminded of these 'puzzles' that are not really puzzles all the time now. I feel slightly unnerved by them. I think I have finally pinpointed WHY I do though.
like I said these are not puzzles, they are flash card memorization and word association tests... the kind of tests you give someone under psychological observation... especially if said person has amnesia/alzheimers/dementia/etc.
this is why I felt uncomfortable with them.
Selebus... what are you trying to tell us about Sensei with these tests.
more importantly what kind of data are you collecting about us...
The truth has come out...
LIL is a massive psychological test for some grad students thesis lol jk
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Anyone want to translate what Maya's shirt says?
If it's not "Watermelon", then I'm disappointed.
(also I hope the merch store restocks in about 1 1/2 years, so I can buy it without my family questioning why I bought a ~21 Euro shirt)
If I remember correctly, when Touka was with Tsubasa in the Councilor room and Sensei correctly guessed/answered Aristotle, he himself questions how he knew that. Rather than accidentally slipping from his façade, I think he's also confused.
But hey, I take pretty much everything at face value, so I might not be reading between some obvious lines.