- Mar 19, 2020
- 31
- 77
I think it's more of a testament to 10k a month rather than willpower.
Hey guys ,i dont know anything about selebus and leaking game but ,i felt like this war is like ,Warner Bros and Empress lol . Empress was angry that warner bross added denuvo to stop piracy ,and Empress said i'll crack your game in 10 days ,warner bitches . Its similar ?
- Jul 2, 2018
- 259
- 249
Pretty much the same here. I didn't play it for so long that I'm still finishing up chapter 2 I think even after a couple of days of playing it.
That much, really? Jesus. I know people that barely make that in a year.
- Jul 14, 2018
- 348
- 794
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
- Jul 18, 2022
- 112
- 356
Is there anyone else here that discovered LiL through itch.io? (I'd downloaded the game due to a Rin pic, lol, although she isn't currently my fav) In fact, I came to know of F95 thanks to LiL after its itch.io page was temporarily taken down; I had randomly arrived in this thread looking for the reason (or so I guess, I don't precisely remember how exactly). Thought of creating an account here to discuss the game, seeing I didn't want to join the LiL discord (I had my fair share of bad experiences with shitty discord mods. And had intuited that I'd be banned fairly quickly from it). Also, this isn't the sort of game you can casually discuss with people you know IRL due to its degeneracy. Didn't care about the leaks here and didn't know the dev hated this place.
That's more or less why I find this whole discussion tiring. I justHOPE hope you guys don't make Selebus go apeshit (any more than he already is) and give up making the game altogether (probably won't happen, seeing his income) or stop freely distributing it after two weeks (much more likely, although I don't even know how unlikely it is in the first place).
Also, wasn't/isn't Selebus technically sort of a pirate as well? I mean, he sold renders he'd made using proprietary software he didn't hold a license to (nor any commercial license exists as far as I am aware; it seems like Illusion doesn't want CharaStudio being used for that sort of thing). Pretty hypocritical of him if that's the case, but then again, I don't really care. Someone more knowledgeable about legal matters, please enlighten me on this.
That's more or less why I find this whole discussion tiring. I just
Also, wasn't/isn't Selebus technically sort of a pirate as well? I mean, he sold renders he'd made using proprietary software he didn't hold a license to (nor any commercial license exists as far as I am aware; it seems like Illusion doesn't want CharaStudio being used for that sort of thing). Pretty hypocritical of him if that's the case, but then again, I don't really care. Someone more knowledgeable about legal matters, please enlighten me on this.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
- Sep 5, 2020
- 2,725
- 5,640
Illusion has made it quite clear that the only license available for Koikatsu and Honey Select are personal-use licenses, which means you can distrubute models you make with the game to friends, but you cannot sell them. Which technically makes any of the HS/KK-based games out there a copyright violation.
However, Illusion doesn't operate outside of Japan, and IIRC they've deferred to Fakku on whether or not to go after these games, and Fakku has elected not to do so (at least for now). They've given no reason why, but I think it's because they're only an intermediary, and thus have little to no standing themselves, and therefore little to nothing to gain by doing so.
And if Illusion/Fakku aren't going to protect the product, then the character studios are fair game in practice, though not in fact.
- Mar 29, 2020
- 778
- 1,294
Tbh, this thread is mostly reactive and while there are people who leak the game as a statement of sorts, nobody here really have an agenda to harm the game or it's creator in any way. Sel goes "apeshit" all by himself, because of the fact that piracy exist and his game is a subject to it ,because mods aren't accommodating enough, because people talk shit about his persona, while discussing his antics.
I think this will only insetify piracy even more.
He's a literal pirate and use to pirate stuff habitually by his own admission.
Same.
Same.
He was waiting for them to drop to raise the ruckus. I don't know why he thought that mods would care, but maybe it was done performatively, to go out with a bang while driving his supporters further into his personality cult (being somewhat hyperbolic here, but still).
- Apr 16, 2020
- 1,104
- 1,429
everything 'bad' that has happened to selebus has only happened after he did crap to piss other people off, and more than likely wasn't even done by people from this thread. there are tons of threads on this site and on other sites and one GREAT way to get a pirating community to target you for destruction is to attack any one pirate or group. this thread and even the mods have been widely tolerant and kind to him after his actions by F95 standards so far.
when anyone targets an internet pirate, even if the pirate says 'guys don't hit back' word of it spreads and every other pirate not into this 'game' or this 'book' or this 'whatever' immediately does a yes/no assessment to fire back just on principal and to make an example to anyone else that would even consider doing it. this is why the majority of creators here don't act like cunty assholes, especially here, considering the creators more often than not don't have a legal leg to stand on.
edit:
this is also one of the reason why a large chunk of the gaming industry considers piracy a 'nice' problem to have. because (1) it means you are popular and finacially secure enough to get pirated in such a way and (2) if you dont wage war on those communities, when you really needs it the piracy communities come out and fight for you in weird ass ways. I recall an instant when a creator had some kind of legal trouble and asked the internet for help and then the opposing side got flooded with documents/viruses and other shit making it a huge ass headache
yep, it was pretty obvious. pirates are nice because they don't generally let people play the victim when they set themselves up in the first place to be the victim for the sole purpose of social engineering and scapegoating their issues onto others
Last edited:
- Jul 18, 2022
- 112
- 356
Considering the interested parties (Illusion and FAKKU) are passive to this extent, I can't fault him for taking advantage of the situation. Although technically, yes, he is a pirate then.
And that begs the question: does he have a moral leg to stand on when criticizing this site? Evidently not. But humans aren't rational, and the fact that he would become upset with this whole situation (especially when you remember that Patreon fucked him over), as it directly affects his livelihood, is understandable.
- Jun 4, 2017
- 415
- 1,775
Dude, they enforced their rules. They might have done so somewhat rudely, but like the 10th render used to be "here's a pic of you fucking your niece to tide you over"
If you're in this space and you're not expecting patreon to fuck you over at some point you either haven't been paying attention or are being wilfully blind
- Jun 4, 2017
- 415
- 1,775
I agree, but this is the wrong characterization. No matter how much money someone makes on there, Patreon isn't "fucking anyone over" by not allowing content they don't approve of to be funded on their platform. It's not even their policies - they're beholden to the wishes of financial institutions that are much more puritanical than they are. We're lucky they allow hardcore content to be funded on there at all - look at the problems Onlyfans had last year.
He banned me on his Discord for criticizing him on here. Did he "fuck me over" by doing so? It was a dick move, but of course not. It's private property.
Did I try to go back and edit all of my posts in a futile attempt to get him to let me back on instead of moving on with my life? Also no
- Jul 18, 2022
- 112
- 356
I mean, sure, they have all the right to enforce their rules accordingly. I was thinking more along the lines of the Huggy Boy fiasco (I'm not familiar with the finer points of what happened). Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've heard, Patreon led him to believe should he make Huggy Boy, everything would be fine. Until it wasn't. That's why he went ahead with such an insane idea in the first place. I remember seeing him complain about an unhelpful/rude Patreon staff member or something (probably the person who caused the "misunderstanding").Dude, they enforced their rules. They might have done so somewhat rudely, but like the 10th render used to be "here's a pic of you fucking your niece to tide you over"
It this is what really happened, it certainly would fit 'to fuck someone over.' Patreon could've merely kicked him sooner, he'd have adapted earlier to another platform, and it'd have spared him the ridiculous job of modifying the game to a shitty version to please Patreon.
- Apr 16, 2020
- 1,104
- 1,429
I'm almost positive huggy boy was his idea, he had a ton of people telling him it wouldn't work and to use what time he had to announce a switch officially to a different money collecting app. i then had personal financial issues limiting internet access and disappeared for a year. so i have no clue what happened for the year after huggy boy was announced other than what I got told here.
which sounded alot like selebus trying to use f95 to boost supporters and he violated community rules to do it, got pissed and then blamed f95 for all his problems publicly and started cursing piracy... which pissed some pirates off enough to leak everything he makes, day of release, out of spite.
someone correct me if i got that timeline wrong or out of order
Last edited:
- Sep 5, 2020
- 2,725
- 5,640
I've had a theory for a while now.
Patreon only went after this game in November 2021. They didn't target a whole bunch of KK based games (even though they claimed it was the KK models looking so young that was the problem), and the other KK-based games with young-looking models were untouched at the time. So this wasn't a sweep, this was targeted, and that means the game was probably reported. And it was probably reported again after he got Huggy Boy out, because if someone's gonna be that petty, they're gonna be that petty twice.
And we know that some users here are petty. Hell, the instant leaks are being done mostly because he's made it clear that it upsets him, and if there's anything trolls love to do, it's continually activate people's triggers.
So yeah, I suspect that someone got banned from the Discord (see the screenshot from a post he made a couple weeks prior to the drama starting), and everything afterwards was petty revenge.
You don't have permission to view the spoiler content.
Log in or register now.
Not really, it was never about money, that's really just because this is his exclusive source of income at this point. This has always been a passion project by his own admission from the time he was active here. However, that one source has now been threatened on several occasions, most notoriously by Patreon trying to shut down his vision to save their revenue stream from the credit card processors because we can't have that, we have to censor artistic vision to save our own skins (we obviously referring to Patreon).
Not really, there was no free release in that case and Denuvo is an actual performance threat, like adding it risks some serious performance issues in the game itself like with Hogwarts Legacy, which there are already reports on Steam about framerate issues because of Denuvo.
This is, unfortunately, not true of every person, some are in it for the extras, which in this case was the two early release and more recently the care packages, both not being an actual benefit anymore since everyone can get them free if they know where to look.
I have been this type of subscriber to other projects before, my only reason in those cases was access to cheats that I was otherwise unable to get, which is still true of at least one of the projects I supported before I cut off Patreon last year for being Patreon. I am a regular lurker in the F95 thread for that game and not once have I seen the cheat version for it leak, the standard version not so much.
For this game, it is indeed to support it, my other benefits are optional to me and I would even surrender them if I could, and in fact did last month since Sel needed time away from providing the higher tier benefits and I was not alone. For me, it takes some serious heat or heat directed at me specifically from a developer to drop, so I won't be leaving even if there are some things I don't agree with because the game is still what I came to support, not the developer.
CharaStudio was actually specifically designed to make these sorts of things and Illusion, like most Japanese companies, couldn't care less about people in the west, otherwise they would put up a bigger fight against people like those in the modding community for their games that has existed for nearly a decade (the Japanese don't like mods, either). As far as this discussion, part of the issue is that everything about the game has already been discussed at least once, some things multiple times. Until a new version comes out and there is new content, there's not much else.
Everything? I don't recall anything of the Patreon or Itch.io issues being his doing, those were just for creating the game and he got targeted over the content, especially Itch.io, which if I remember correctly was some advocacy group targeting his game over the ages of characters, ages that until now haven't been confirmed officially and only a few have been confirmed even now.
Rules that shouldn't even exist to the extent that artistic vision is victimized, but yes, that is basically what they did.Dude, they enforced their rules. They might have done so somewhat rudely, but like the 10th render used to be "here's a pic of you fucking your niece to tide you over"
Honestly, I'm surprised they allow adult content in any capacity at this point.I agree, but this is the wrong characterization. No matter how much money someone makes on there, Patreon isn't "fucking anyone over" by not allowing content they don't approve of to be funded on their platform. It's not even their policies - they're beholden to the wishes of financial institutions that are much more puritanical than they are. We're lucky they allow hardcore content to be funded on there at all - look at the problems Onlyfans had last year.
He banned me on his Discord for criticizing him on here. Did he "fuck me over" by doing so? It was a dick move, but of course not. It's private property.
Did I try to go back and edit all of my posts in a futile attempt to get him to let me back on instead of moving on with my life? Also no
Basically:
1. He makes game with content Patreon does not like.
2. Patreon locks his page.
3. He moves to gain a secondary source of subscribers, SubscribeStar.
4. He remakes the game into what we know today as the "huggy boy" version and continues to release the original on SubscribeStar while his Patreon is unlocked.
5. Patreon discovers the SubscribeStar, partly due to the fact that his SubscribeStar URL doesn't change if his user name does, so renaming himself Subeles didn't fool anyone let alone Patreon.
6. Patreon locks his page again, surprisingly not an immediate full deletion for once as this is usually what happens to second offenses.
7. The "huggy boy" version stops entirely and everything goes back to full steam on the normal version we have today, but he still has income to recover at this point, income he would not have lost if Patreon was actually in support of free expression.
That sums it up as best as I can remember.
Very much so, but to be undeservedly fair to Patreon, they do rely on user reports of violations like most sites. We didn't see exactly who reported it, so it could have been anyone from a disgruntled patron to an actual anti-fiction activist (in this context, anti-fiction should be obvious, but to explain just in case, it is referring to people so vehemently against adult content with younger characters even though the characters they are against do not exist IRL that they make a move against the fiction depicting the character in that way, in this case reporting it to the anti-fiction site the fiction was hosted on).
- Jul 18, 2022
- 112
- 356
Fair. So Patreon was just the murder weapon... Well, that's the cost of freely expressing your views without holding anything back. You're going to tick off a lot of people.
- Apr 16, 2020
- 1,104
- 1,429
yeah everything, you and others even acknowledge he antagonizes people before this shit started going down, this has nothing to do with if he was right or not. he does/says things that end up putting a foot up his arse. deserved or not isn't my point. i feel like he gets an unfair rep and isn't as bad as he is made out to be most of the time. but to say he didn't antagonize a crap ton of people with his behavior is delusional.
- Jun 4, 2017
- 415
- 1,775
Since they allow games with adult content, it doesn't make any sense that someone at Patreon would have directly told him to remove all of it. At the same time, apart from the blatant incest, they probably weren't able to draw a line at exactly what constituted an underage-looking character - because how can you?
So while removing it may have been the only way he might have been reinstated, since they also don't allow off-site patches to add content they disallow, the whole plan was very obviously never going to work to anyone who wasn't irrationally desperate to retain their supporters on the best crowdfunding platform.
Put yourself in the Patreon rep's shoes - if someone rewrote their game to become such a ridiculously stupid parody of itself, and plans to patch it off-site were already on the public Discord before the appeal was resolved, you would correctly think they were insulting your intelligence. And if you were that Patreon rep's manager and they asked you what they should do in that situation, you'd probably tell them just to ban the dev permanently and cut off all contact instead of dealing with such a blatant bad-faith actor any further.
He went ahead with such an insane idea because he's greedy and thought he'd lose money going to another platform (it was only temporary), he's stubborn, and he thinks he's the smartest person in every room he's in - not because anyone at Patreon promised him it would work.
He treated the people at Patreon like NPCs and got rightfully burned for it. Nothing more. And he felt so personally aggrieved at the situation that it's enshrined seemingly forever in an event inside of his own game.
- Jun 4, 2017
- 415
- 1,775
The schadenfreude deepens. Of course it was one of his biggest patrons he was a dick to instead of just being random chance. OF COURSE
"I honestly just love being sarcastic and argumentative," he says - but when that exact same attitude is directed at his behavior, it's because we're obsessed with him. Hmm
You know - the deeper it gets, the less actual pushback I get, and the more I think of that completely nonsensical rant he posted in Discord a few days ago in response to my posts, the more I think that what I'm dealing with is a person with the attitude and social awareness of an actual child.
I should probably be more merciful.