Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.46.0] [Selebus]

[Antosha]

okay i haven't message on here in like a year but i still been lurking on here and reading all the theory's. and i been meaning to start joining in again. so here some crazy tin foil thoughts i had while bored at work. and it about a character no one talk about chiaki chosokabe or chika mother.

like why dose she have an name and a model when so many of the other main characters dead parents dont. i mean sana brother keeps getting brought up and how he talks to both sana and sara but he dosent even have a name (unless i missed it). but still no model or even shown in a flashback. same with makoto dad. like we have so many characters that get brought up that dont have models like tsuneyo dad or nozomu. is it just me that that thinks it weird that the only 2 dead characters to have models are sekai and chika mother. also she was brought up in chapter 1 when you see a picture of her the first time we see chinami. is the thing sel going to bring up that he thinks might not go over well be chiaki and why it wont go over well is because her being suddenly important would come out of nowhere.


i know you could just say she has a model because it add to a scene for chika. but in that case why didnt makoto dad show up in a scene where makoto remembers a touching memory with him after he died. the same with sana brother could been used the same with sara or sana remember him. or even show his ghost talking to them like how we see sekai talk to ami or sensei. is it just because their male characters and sel scared if he shows an other male character model people freak out about ntr even if character dead or even a dead kid in sana brother case.

i feel like there something their with how the only two dead character with models are sekai and chiaki. maybe someone else can turn my crazy thoughts into a theory. i mean we overthink everything in this game like the backgrounds and colour. so maybe this isnt to crazy to think she might be more important than we think

Spoiler: bonus thoughts

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Interesting.

The reason I think there aren't pictures/models of any of the dead/absent dads/husbands/brothers... is because as far as the game is concerned, Akira is the only male in Kumon-mi. I think. Same with the names.

But it's still an interesting question.

 

[barglenarglezous]

like why dose she have an name and a model when so many of the other main characters dead parents dont. i mean sana brother keeps getting brought up and how he talks to both sana and sara but he dosent even have a name (unless i missed it). but still no model or even shown in a flashback. same with makoto dad. like we have so many characters that get brought up that dont have models like tsuneyo dad or nozomu. is it just me that that thinks it weird that the only 2 dead characters to have models are sekai and chika mother. also she was brought up in chapter 1 when you see a picture of her the first time we see chinami. is the thing sel going to bring up that he thinks might not go over well be chiaki and why it wont go over well is because her being suddenly important would come out of nowhere.

Sara's coping mechanism after losing her son was to try as hard as possible to pretend like he never even existed, so any pictures would have been put away ages ago.

Makoto's father has pictures, they're mentioned during that sequence, but Makoto's favorite was ruined by Sensei as he was leaving by accident. But he doesn't really need to be anything more than a nebulous person who existed to fulfil his role in the narrative.

Chinami very specifically calls attention to the picture of her mother when we first meet her, and she does this again when the Tsukiokas visit. By creating a model of her and having Chinami show off her picture when she meets new people, Chika's mother becomes more real, her loss is felt more than the other two, and that in turn steers us towards being more sympathetic towards Chika and Chinami, as their loss has become tangible.

tl,dr: Emotional manipulation

 

[Noob Gamer 24 2402]

More so a time issue than a "Oh i cant do this" issue.We will see though.

You are in the army? Then as a contractor you should have a phone and even your laptop avialable. Dont know country you live in, so army regulations in your country will be much different than mine, but contractors should have more freedom and liberty than conscripts and contractors of private ranks, so if you are a sergeant class like me or even better officer staff, then you are a free man. Edit: if you are a private, then your best bet is to be friend with your NCO and have a good contact with 1 class lieutenant(старшии леитенант), then you will have more freedom than any other drafteers. That is how I did it in the 1 year conscription service, even in the army, connections do all the work. Also:Never be a snitch, be friendly, but never too friendly with sergeants, stay away from lieutenants unless you know them, stand up for yourself when threatened, but never try to make problems for others. Life will be a dream following this simple rules

 

[PhiloPhilo]

okay i haven't message on here in like a year but i still been lurking on here and reading all the theory's. and i been meaning to start joining in again. so here some crazy tin foil thoughts i had while bored at work. and it about a character no one talk about chiaki chosokabe or chika mother.

like why dose she have an name and a model when so many of the other main characters dead parents dont. i mean sana brother keeps getting brought up and how he talks to both sana and sara but he dosent even have a name (unless i missed it). but still no model or even shown in a flashback. same with makoto dad. like we have so many characters that get brought up that dont have models like tsuneyo dad or nozomu. is it just me that that thinks it weird that the only 2 dead characters to have models are sekai and chika mother. also she was brought up in chapter 1 when you see a picture of her the first time we see chinami. is the thing sel going to bring up that he thinks might not go over well be chiaki and why it wont go over well is because her being suddenly important would come out of nowhere.


i know you could just say she has a model because it add to a scene for chika. but in that case why didnt makoto dad show up in a scene where makoto remembers a touching memory with him after he died. the same with sana brother could been used the same with sara or sana remember him. or even show his ghost talking to them like how we see sekai talk to ami or sensei. is it just because their male characters and sel scared if he shows an other male character model people freak out about ntr even if character dead or even a dead kid in sana brother case.

i feel like there something their with how the only two dead character with models are sekai and chiaki. maybe someone else can turn my crazy thoughts into a theory. i mean we overthink everything in this game like the backgrounds and colour. so maybe this isnt to crazy to think she might be more important than we think

Spoiler: bonus thoughts

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Aside from the not showing male characters thing, which I don't think matters that much, I wouldn't assume there has to be any special reason behind it inherently. We haven't really needed a scene with any of those characters, to be honest. What makes it easier for Chiaki to be modelled is that she's essentially just an older Chika with different hair, and the males we do see in the game (Adult / Young Akira) kinda look weird, anyway. So it's just easier to do her. Plus, Sel wanted the picture of Chiaki to be important, and you would have to do most of the work of modelling her in order to render that picture of her, anyway.

Spoiler

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Something about this specific bit kinda stands out to me, the bit about being complete makes someone stay on script... we've wondered for a long time what makes someone able to pierce the veil and i feel like this is a clue, we've discussed trauma and pregnancy and who has ever visited the roof but nothing has ever come up as a concrete connection, does this little detail change any of that, what does someone have to lose to be able to go off the script? What triggers someone to begin being able to perceive their past selves memories? You all know i'm too dumb to get this shit on my own so what do you guys make of this? DeSkelly? Mooney? Fdsas? Maug?

I assume to be whole, whether figuratively or literally, comes down to the same thing. That being literally having part of yourself (or some concept like your understanding/mind) in another place, or figuratively, to not be able to fully use your mind or understand (being blocked from the answers by headaches/mania.) Nodoka doesn't see herself as whole until she learns the truth/can think clearly or possibly can uncover herself/Shiori. The other girls are whole because they're just entities in this world/plane with no outside connection, or parts of them missing, but they also have no understanding because of it. Maya would probably not be whole.

 

[shmurfer]

So you also just felt like Sel doesnt respect our time?

There's several happy moments where you're expected to wait 20s, and some parts where it seems to be expected to hold down skip for a while. lmao no he doesn't.

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

Spoiler

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Something about this specific bit kinda stands out to me, the bit about being complete makes someone stay on script... we've wondered for a long time what makes someone able to pierce the veil and i feel like this is a clue, we've discussed trauma and pregnancy and who has ever visited the roof but nothing has ever come up as a concrete connection, does this little detail change any of that, what does someone have to lose to be able to go off the script? What triggers someone to begin being able to perceive their past selves memories? You all know i'm too dumb to get this shit on my own so what do you guys make of this? DeSkelly? Mooney? Fdsas? Maug?

Perhaps by… suffering some kind of tremendous loss, a ‘complete’ person’s life is suddenly now ‘incomplete’?

Taking a look at the current (and past) RAS members as examples:

Sensei - Where to start? He’s lost a lot. Sekai. His brother. His parents. His innocence. Not to mention, like Yuu, he’s special; a wildcard.

Maya - Maya Prime lost Akira, the love of her life, making her incomplete. She then made a divine wish that she could be with him forever, and like the story of Altair and Vega, was delivered to her in the worst way imaginable, leading to her curse and most likely the time loops themselves.

Ayane - She got pregnant with Himawari before Reset 3, somehow got the idea to meet with Sensei on the roof, and then showed up during said reset. Once the reset itself happened, Ayane was gone, along with the unborn Himawari. Her baby was now lost, making Ayane incomplete. Come Reset 4, Ayane shows up on the roof again, and this time, doesn’t disappear.

Makoto - Makoto started becoming aware of the time fuckery around the time of the solo beach trip with her, Sensei and Miku, but didn’t really begin perceiving things until after the death of her father. Masahiro was her reason for pushing herself in school and making her the person she was. She wanted to make him proud. And now that he’s gone, Makoto is now an incomplete person. In Reset 6, she shows up on the roof.

I could be a bit off, but it seems plausible.

 

[shmurfer]

Maya - What did Maya Prime ‘lose’ to become incomplete exactly? We don’t know for certain, but we do receive scattered hints of her past throughout the game. I think we need more information on Maya specifically, but I’d be willing to infer her losing something along the lines of her innocence and a place to belong, hence why she sticks to Akira like a stray cat.

She lost Akira for starters.

 

[VinceSensei]

How to continue girls story without grinding their stats/Affection?

 

[barglenarglezous]

Perhaps by… suffering some kind of tremendous loss, a ‘complete’ person’s life is suddenly now ‘incomplete’?

I'll refer once again to this passage, as it lays out the core theme of the game quite well, and is also likely directly tied to what prompts the egg to crack.

Spoiler: Selebus' thesis statement

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This is taken from Makoto's apology scene.

To reach the rooftop, they need to suffer. They need to cry. They need to become beautiful for Sensei.

 

[barglenarglezous]

How to continue girls story without grinding their stats/Affection?

Use UMR (linked in some other people's sig file) or another Ren'py save file editor to manually adjust those values to an artificially high number.

 

[DeSkel15]

Spoiler

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Something about this specific bit kinda stands out to me, the bit about being complete makes someone stay on script... we've wondered for a long time what makes someone able to pierce the veil and i feel like this is a clue, we've discussed trauma and pregnancy and who has ever visited the roof but nothing has ever come up as a concrete connection, does this little detail change any of that, what does someone have to lose to be able to go off the script? What triggers someone to begin being able to perceive their past selves memories? You all know i'm too dumb to get this shit on my own so what do you guys make of this? DeSkelly? Mooney? Fdsas? Maug?

Honestly, I think it kind of comes down to this:

Spoiler

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Being Whole may just translate to being Happy. Most of these girls are "happy" with how things are, even if it's not perfect. They are happy with their script that they were given. Happy to play the girl they are scripted to play.

When they truly go off script is when they become aware. When things happen that change who they are and what they want, or when they are not "happy here", they seem to become aware. Sana, for example, is wanting to be Happy, now:

Spoiler

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Which seems to have made it so that she can acknowledge the reality of the world. She's not the same character she was scripted to be. She just didn't care about the weird things going on, until Sensei mentioned it.

• Ayane had been happy until she got knocked up, and then lost the baby, which she still remembers. She wanted to be a mother, and that's what made her happy, what kept her going, but this world wouldn't allow that. She's had to go off script to be happy ever since.
• Makoto has had to change again and again since Bluejay to be Happy. Bluejay broke her, then she was reset, but the memories of Bluejay forced her to try to change, then her father's death nearly broke her, but Ami helped her (Ami's the caretaker and cared for both Ayane and Makoto before they became aware), which allowed Makoto to instead focus on what makes her Happy. This is when the Unbluejay happens, she tricks Sensei into signing marriage papers, and then she's shown to have become aware of things. Her trying to be Happy, instead of simply being "happy here", may have been why.
• Yumi was forced to re-evaluate what makes her Happy after Nodoka forced her to face herself, Chika, and what her future might look like (Yuki). This led to her trying to be Happy, by letting Yuki back in, being nice to Noriko and Futaba, etc.
• Tsuneyo is a little different, but assuming that what happened to Molly forced her to re-evaluate what makes her Happy, then Sensei taking her on that date also changed what she thinks will make her Happy (Sensei), then this may explain why she's become aware.

Nodoka seems to be trying to liberate everyone, presumably like her mother tried to, in the past, from the script. From the game. She's doing this by more or less:

Spoiler

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However, trying to break the mold seems to have crippled Nodoka's mother mentally, and may do the same to Nodoka. Kyoko didn't seem to have a Sensei to help like Nodoka might, though:

Spoiler

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For those unaware, Nodoka's mother isn't able to take care of herself:

Spoiler

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And we presumably know why, now. She fought the world, alone, and...lost.

Although, like Nao has pointed out:

Spoiler

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I'm not sure if Nodoka's attempt at liberation is because she's actually smart enough to escape her script, or if it's simply how she was scripted.

Her noticing the stain, and her notes, may simply be what's supposed to happen, but if so, then who's to say that becoming aware, or getting to the roof during a reset, isn't part of the script.

We know it technically is, but if Sel is going that route, then this really can only end rather depressingly.

Edit: Also Maya and Sensei may have become aware because without eachother they weren't "happy here".

 

[aramaug]

Spoiler

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Something about this specific bit kinda stands out to me, the bit about being complete makes someone stay on script... we've wondered for a long time what makes someone able to pierce the veil and i feel like this is a clue, we've discussed trauma and pregnancy and who has ever visited the roof but nothing has ever come up as a concrete connection, does this little detail change any of that, what does someone have to lose to be able to go off the script? What triggers someone to begin being able to perceive their past selves memories? You all know i'm too dumb to get this shit on my own so what do you guys make of this? DeSkelly? Mooney? Fdsas? Maug?

A longer post on Nodoka is on my to-do list, but my basic understanding of what's going on with her is that she's able to receive fragmentary thoughts and memories from one or more "other Nodokas", probably past versions of her that were factory reset. In contrast, the other characters also have these other selves, but they aren't mentally connected to them in any way.

If I understand correctly, what she believes is that:

• Each time (for example) Futaba is factory reset, she's replaced with an exact copy of her pre-reset version. When presented with the same situations, she will act in exactly the same way - like an actor playing the same character each time. She's whole in the sense that the current Futaba is always a single consciousness in a single body.
• Each time Nodoka is factory reset, a new piece is added to a connected web of Nodoka conscioussnesses. Since she can (to some extent) draw on her past experiences, she's able to act differently than she has in previous cycles. On the other hand, she's not whole because the "real Nodoka" is spread among all these different pieces.

It's definitely possible that this is connected in some way to being able to comprehend the cycles, but I'm still not sure what the trigger is. For Nodoka it seems to be a hereditary thing, she's said her mother had the same thing and it drove her insane (and her father is probably Yuu, who also had visions).

 

[LoveRedHairedGirl]

Sensei - Where to start? He’s lost a lot. Sekai. His brother. His parents. His innocence. Not to mention, like Yuu, he’s special; a wildcard.

Maya - Maya Prime lost Akira, the love of her life, making her incomplete. She then made a divine wish that she could be with him forever, and like the story of Altair and Vega, was delivered to her in the worst way imaginable, leading to her curse and most likely the time loops themselves.

Ayane - She got pregnant with Himawari before Reset 3, somehow got the idea to meet with Sensei on the roof, and then showed up during said reset. Once the reset itself happened, Ayane was gone, along with the unborn Himawari. Her baby was now lost, making Ayane incomplete. Come Reset 4, Ayane shows up on the roof again, and this time, doesn’t disappear.

Makoto - Makoto started becoming aware of the time fuckery around the time of the solo beach trip with her, Sensei and Miku, but didn’t really begin perceiving things until after the death of her father. Masahiro was her reason for pushing herself in school and making her the person she was. She wanted to make him proud. And now that he’s gone, Makoto is now an incomplete person. In Reset 6, she shows up on the roof.

• Ayane had been happy until she got knocked up, and then lost the baby, which she still remembers. She wanted to be a mother, and that's what made her happy, what kept her going, but this world wouldn't allow that. She's had to go off script to be happy ever since.
• Makoto has had to change again and again since Bluejay to be Happy. Bluejay broke her, then she was reset, but the memories of Bluejay forced her to try to change, then her father's death nearly broke her, but Ami helped her (Ami's the caretaker and cared for both Ayane and Makoto before they became aware), which allowed Makoto to instead focus on what makes her Happy. This is when the Unbluejay happens, she tricks Sensei into signing marriage papers, and then she's shown to have become aware of things. Her trying to be Happy, instead of simply being "happy here", may have been why.
• Yumi was forced to re-evaluate what makes her Happy after Nodoka forced her to face herself, Chika, and what her future might look like (Yuki). This led to her trying to be Happy, by letting Yuki back in, being nice to Noriko and Futaba, etc.
• Tsuneyo is a little different, but assuming that what happened to Molly forced her to re-evaluate what makes her Happy, then Sensei taking her on that date also changed what she thinks will make her Happy (Sensei), then this may explain why she's become aware.

Considering you two, I guess Maya got resetted because she finally found happiness with Akira. She realized he remembered a lot of stuff and still loved her. But, paradoxically, that's what killed her – her own happiness. You shouldn't really be happy in this world.

 

[LessonsInDissonance]

I think the next person to make it through the next reset will be either Yumi, Chika, or both
more likely Chika

 

[fdsasdf_p]

Spoiler

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Something about this specific bit kinda stands out to me, the bit about being complete makes someone stay on script... we've wondered for a long time what makes someone able to pierce the veil and i feel like this is a clue, we've discussed trauma and pregnancy and who has ever visited the roof but nothing has ever come up as a concrete connection, does this little detail change any of that, what does someone have to lose to be able to go off the script? What triggers someone to begin being able to perceive their past selves memories? You all know i'm too dumb to get this shit on my own so what do you guys make of this? DeSkelly? Mooney? Fdsas? Maug?

Hmm, I don't think it would add something very substantial for RAS business because it lacks comparable examples. To explain this I want to point out what Nodoka currently could grasp first because I feel like we're trying to tackle more than one question all at once:

1. Individuals can pass between planes. Types of passing vary. Two types that are validated by Nodoka in this update are physical teleportation and entering a mental state where actions of your body are guided by memories.
2. The source of aforementioned memories isn't limited to "the you in this plane". You can be guided by memories that are, in this context, from "the you(s) in other plane(s)".
3. Unlike the rest of the girls that would just "A-anyway!", Nodoka utilizes this phenomenon to guide herself, and ultimately finds out that the world is repeating. Thus her extension to this conclusion is that a script must have existed in order for a world to indefinitely repeat itself.

By listing these, my expanded bullet points are:

• How Nodoka gains herself awareness to the fuckery is not simply from perceiving her past selves, but from experimenting with them and somehow answering the big question. The importance of "being whole or not" in this matter or in her case is not addressed.
• Besides, I can't tell whether "no longer being whole" is the cause or the effect here. Nodoka can be referring to a mental state that is traumatized, or a mental state that is a superposition of selves from multiple planes combined.
• Even if "no longer being whole" is the key to perceiving past selves memories, being able to perceive doesn't necessarily equate a trip to the rooftop (Ayane in reset3 with zero awareness), or landing you a place in RAS (Yumi and Tsuneyo in reset5), or timely landing you a place in RAS (Makoto remembered things way before reset6). Therefore trying to find what's not whole about the potential RAS members to correlate their fuckery awareness feels less like writing an answer to a question but more like writing a question for an answer.

A little sidetrack here is that one might even argue the definition of "past selves memories". Loose definition is any memory that doesn't make chronological sense, while stringent definition will be the memories from selves in the past cycles. Currently only Yumi is shown to be qualified under the stringent definition as someone who can apparently remember the detentions other iterations gave her. Still, remembering that hasn't landed her a place in RAS yet.

 

[aramaug]

thats an interesting thought, do we have any evidence to support this? I thought Yuu was supposed to be Akira's father (and Saki, his mother) so I wonder what the circumstances would've been for Yuu to have a kid with Kyoko?

It might have been too strong to say that Yuu is "probably" her father, but there is circumstantial evidence:

1. Kyoko is one of the residents of the upside down house along with Saki, two other Nothing is Beautiful characters, and an unnamed male. Because of the NiB connection, people think it's Yuu.
2. In the event where Sensei trades nudes with Otoha, he suddenly gets weird thoughts apparently coming from Nodoka's father ("Can you hear this Kyoko? Your daughter is a nightmare. She has my eyes.") with the attached photograph on the screen, probably meant to be from the upside down house. It's more likely these come from someone Sensei has a connection with rather than a random unnamed character. View attachment buddybug.webp
3. There's joking references to Sensei and Nodoka being secret siblings which could be foreshadowing. See the "secret family" section of my post here.

 

[DeSkel15]

Considering you two, I guess Maya got resetted because she finally found happiness with Akira. She realized he remembered a lot of stuff and still loved her. But, paradoxically, that's what killed her – her own happiness. You shouldn't really be happy in this world.

Maya Prime also seemed to have her memories be erased until there was only Akira:

Spoiler

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So, there's literally nothing besides Sensei that could have made her happy at the end.

A little sidetrack here is that one might even argue the definition of "past selves memories". Loose definition is any memory that doesn't make chronological sense, while stringent definition will be the memories from selves in the past cycles. Currently only Yumi is shown to be qualified under the stringent definition as someone who can apparently remember the detentions other iterations gave her. Still, remembering that hasn't landed her a place in RAS yet.

Technically, Yumi might just be remembering what happened before the resets:

Spoiler

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Or maybe even during the Beachmas timeskip since Sensei and Yumi were hanging out a lot during it apparently:

Spoiler

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Which may have been shown earlier in the 'Redeemer' Main Event:

Spoiler

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Yumi's memories have been a mess since she seemingly died in Reset 5, and since Beachmas, they have been questionable due to that 2 months timeskip.

Besides Maya Prime, only Tsuneyo and Sensei have seemed to recall memories from past timelines. Tsuneyo recalled Sensei saying something when she wasn't part of the class yet, and hearing about the Resets, while Sensei recalled a crying Maya (Prime?) jerking him off, to death, back during the first reset in this timeline.

 

[Bingoogus]

Alright, now that's a lot to digest... now i'm looking forward to what each of you has to say on the other's interpretation... cause i am big big dummy and have no hope of sorting through it all on my own.

 

[Moonflare]

It might have been too strong to say that Yuu is "probably" her father, but there is circumstantial evidence:

1. Kyoko is one of the residents of the upside down house along with Saki, two other Nothing is Beautiful characters, and an unnamed male. Because of the NiB connection, people think it's Yuu.
2. In the event where Sensei trades nudes with Otoha, he suddenly gets weird thoughts apparently coming from Nodoka's father ("Can you hear this Kyoko? Your daughter is a nightmare. She has my eyes.") with the attached photograph on the screen, probably meant to be from the upside down house. It's more likely these come from someone Sensei has a connection with rather than a random unnamed character. View attachment 3900374
3. There's joking references to Sensei and Nodoka being secret siblings which could be foreshadowing. See the "secret family" section of my post here.

The timelines don't match though. Nodoka is Ami's age. The only possible way for Nodoka to be Akira's sister is if she time-travelled, she'd have to be Yuu's granddaughter if anything (which isn't likely because she's Kyoko's daughter).

Also, if Yuu was around to impregnate Kyoko by the time Ami was born, then Saki's trauma would make little sense. Why would she be so hard on Akira (for his similarity to Yuu) if Yuu was around and well enough to go around getting people pregnant?

Also, if Yuu was around and well, it'd make absolutely no sense for him not to care for Akira when he started showing the same symptoms as him. It's understandable that Saki'd react badly to it because it had already taken her husband. But for Yuu? He'd be well, and thus Akira's issues would be much less of a big deal since he was able to thrive even though he had them as well.

 

[g6107419]

Is there a list of triggers? I couldn't find anything with a quick look but I'm also trying to avoid spoilers