Whether or not any of the gods are actually villains or are simply trying to appease a villain (or simply survive), is something I’ve been wondering more and more.
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Seeing as how HOPE apparently can't exist outside Kumon-Mi:
I wonder if whatever is outside Kumon-Mi may be the real threat in this game.
I don't think they're villains (in the sense that they were just born evil). But more that we're seeing the end of maybe thousands of years of these entities having to learn from fragments of Akira inside of cycles. In "tick tock tick tock", Am I Okay straight up says that she can get pregnant from Akira, with a new HOPE, and they can teach it to reset the world and touch him sexually.
Who even knows what Original Akira has done either to create, or affect these beings. All the horrible things they have ever said are either things Akira thinks about doing, or has done before. When NAO welcomes him to the Wishing Well, he cannot see himself - and she teases him about it - yet we know from the audio transcript that when he looks down into the well he's supposed to see himself. The logical answer would be that he is seeing himself - NAO is himself, all of this is himself, just not this fragment, but they're all fragments of the whole bigger Akira.
I think there's a high chance that the gods are either simply cogs that reacted to many cycles of Akira and are trying to do their job, or they're beings that gained sentience and are trying to keep the cycles going because they are a subproduct of it. In fact, Yasu says a couple of times that "He is the youngest of them, but dying all the same." - All these gods are dying. Why are they dying and how does Akira fit in their salvation is a question I'd like to have answered - because for all of HOPE's posturing, I don't see anyone else in this city being used by them in the way only Akira is (Not even going into Pareidolia, as he's literally inside of Akira's head ).
That also puts Himawari and the gods in check - Himawari needs the cycles to end in order to be born, the gods (and Sekai) need the cycles to keep going in order to be alive. SeKaori would be an alternative for Sekai to be alive if the cycles ended though. aramaug, this might be relevant to your Kaori theory.
Edit: also, I get why you're saying that Yasu's god hasn't been confirmed to be HOPE, but c'mon, we literally have to use HOPE as a key to understand what it says (apart from so many other evidences):
Sorry if I'm misreading you, but I'm going to use this as an excuse to talk about something I had been thinking about. We have pretty good evidence that TERMINAL 23 doesn't refer to Akira, but to a location (probably Kumon-mi/"the world inside the walls")
What I think is even more interesting is that apparently the twenty-three is part of a chronological sequence, and might answer the question "How long has Sensei been here?" It's also kind of implied that Yasu has memories of past TERMINALs (since she "figured it out" it doesn't seem like divine revelation).
My best guess is that the TERMINAL numbers are some sort of "meta-cycles" that encompass countless resets each, but I'm not sure what might have happened twenty-two or twenty-three times so far. At one point I thought it might have to do with each time a "Sensei Prime" or "Maya Prime" is reset/dies after being awake for thousands of years, but TERMINAL 23 is still referenced in Chapter 4 somewhere.
(It could also be a simulation number, but I'm really holding out hope that that isn't a thing.)
It would make a lot of sense for USER4 to be Sekai, and for all gods together to simply be himself.
I'd be surprised if USER4 is Sekai. My current understanding is that most (or even all?) of her versions are really closely related to Pareidolia. In "All For You" the narrator implies that the "fourth form" will encompass all of the trinity, so I suspect USER4 is itself some version of Akira. It probably has to do with the Wishing Well, due to USER4 having the Nao-chan backup. Maybe at some point Akira returns to the Wishing Well and is able to recover his memories from all of the past resets, and that turns him into USER4?
And I have a short and practical answer, for people that aren't insane:
If I've missed like 5-6 updates, is there an easy place to grab historic "update only" patches, or do I pretty much have to download the entire game again to catch up?
Who even knows what Original Akira has done either to create, or affect these beings. All the horrible things they have ever said are either things Akira thinks about doing, or has done before. When NAO welcomes him to the Wishing Well, he cannot see himself - and she teases him about it - yet we know from the audio transcript that when he looks down into the well he's supposed to see himself. The logical answer would be that he is seeing himself - NAO is himself, all of this is himself, just not this fragment, but they're all fragments of the whole bigger Akira.
The upside-down text could indicate a connection with the upside-down house. It could also be meant to evoke someone looking down into a well and seeing their own reflection, like in the audio file you mentioned.
We don't know yet. There is this "tv show/movie" that is on all the time according to Noriko, in the old district, about a group of women stuck inside a boarded up house. And each time she watched it, it was showing different things. However, she noticed that as she watched it in the dorms (outside of the old district), it changed to them eating some sort of grey substance (whereas it was real food when she watched it before).
The upside down house could also be related to Nodoka's mother, maybe she even lived in it. As both her mother and her wife (?) seemed to be a part of this movie. Otoha also watches this, Nodoka makes mention of it, and it even shows up in the room with the clocks (possibly, but it's not upside down then).
From a different angle, there is a note somewhere about a woman that had to follow the rules of the house - and that makes me think that the upside down house might have been Sekai's childhood home (she didn't have a good relationship with her parents apparently, since she refused to answer when being called her family name).
That could mean that the upside down house could be "grandma's home", that Ami mentions - in case that the grandma is Sekai's mother, instead of Saki. However if that is the same house by a lake that Tsuneyo mentions, I don't know. DeSkel15 please address these as well if you're going to answer Nadekai's question.
My best guess is that the TERMINAL numbers are some sort of "meta-cycles" that encompass countless resets each, but I'm not sure what might have happened twenty-two or twenty-three times so far. At one point I thought it might have to do with each time a "Sensei Prime" or "Maya Prime" is reset/dies after being awake for thousands of years, but TERMINAL 23 is still referenced in Chapter 4 somewhere.
(It could also be a simulation number, but I'm really holding out hope that that isn't a thing.)
This is a cool idea. However, if you're correct in it, then I'd assume what we're shown in the room with the clocks in regards to "this is the room that predates it", where Akira is a puppet for someone, would be TERMINAL 22. And TERMINAL 24 being wrong would mean that this is it, 23 is the last one (which would link to the well drying up).
Since we're throwing some cool ideas, I also had one today where I was reading narrator during one of the scenes, and what if Kaori was one of the narrators? She lives at room 23, she just turned 23 during last christmas (when she gave the frog to Nao-chan) - and it would be such a cool moment for a completely "fixed" Kaori to speak normally and try to save her Friend. After all, she did say she'd conquer the world again for him if necessary, and that they're together until after the end of time.
What if some of the mysterious things she says comes from SeKaori, but some just comes from herself? Is this likely to happen? No. But I would absolutely lose my shit if there was one event where narrator says a lot of things, and by the end we see a picure of future Kaori speaking perfectly normal, just like the scene where this happens with Himawari.
The upside down house could also be related to Nodoka's mother, maybe she even lived in it. As both her mother and her wife (?) seemed to be a part of this movie. Otoha also watches this, Nodoka makes mention of it, and it even shows up in the room with the clocks (possibly, but it's not upside down then).
And if it is the upside-down house outside of the room with clocks but we're seeing it right-side up, that would imply that the room with clocks is ALSO upside down. There are several references to the room with clocks being "down here" (I specifically remember that Himawari tells Sensei to smile "down here" at the end of "The Room With Clocks", and then after Sensei exits the room the narrator says something nearly identical but just says "here" instead of "down here"). And where could be described as "down here"? Maybe at the bottom of a well. And the Xoanon (Nao) is upside down at the bottom of a well. And to top it all off, the hex message on Kirin's whiteboard in that scene is "The hours of folly are measured by the clock".
I feel like we're on to something here, but at the same time I might need to just start appending the Pepe Silvia meme to all of my posts.
i enjoy every next update as long there are progress with girls who havent h-scenes, with no repeat of scenes with girls with who you already have been several times(thanks to gods whom you are discussing, at least selebus is not drpinkcake, also i can forgive selebus, since he had to rewrite his game on 28-30.0 or so)
How about another crazy theory that is lacking in sufficient evidence? A random thought just assaulted my mind:
Three gods, three sides of a cross - they all begin with C: Callous, Calm, Concerned.
But then we're told that a cross has four sides, not three. Well, what if the fourth also begins with a C? Like the Caretaker (or "Caring" if we're to follow the trend of adjectives).
We can add a lot more to this, but since this isn't a thesis but just a random thought - I'll stop here. I don't think this Ami is USER4, but some other Ami could be. Three sides of a cross make a T, from Teacher Sekai. And what is the fourth side of Teacher Sekai, what is the part that was only added later? her daughter. And this would both be an entity that is formed prior the resets, and also resonate with Akira's own care for Ami herself. Because, just as he can be Callous, Calm and Concerned, he can also care for her, as we've seen.
Is USER4 the Caring god then? Or, if you don't agree with any of this, how about the C thing? Will USER4 also have a C? And if so, what will it be if not Caretaker or Collector?
How about another crazy theory that is lacking in sufficient evidence? A random thought just assaulted my mind:
Three gods, three sides of a cross - they all begin with C: Callous, Calm, Concerned.
But then we're told that a cross has four sides, not three. Well, what if the fourth also begins with a C? Like the Caretaker (or "Caring" if we're to follow the trend of adjectives).
We can add a lot more to this, but since this isn't a thesis but just a random thought - I'll stop here. I don't think this Ami is USER4, but some other Ami could be. Three sides of a cross make a T, from Teacher Sekai. And what is the fourth side of Teacher Sekai, what is the part that was only added later? her daughter. And this would both be an entity that is formed prior the resets, and also resonate with Akira's own care for Ami herself. Because, just as he can be Callous, Calm and Concerned, he can also care for her as we've seen.
Is USER4 the Caring god then? Or, if you don't agree with any of this, how about the C thing? Will USER4 also have a C? And if so, what will it be if not Caretaker or Collector?
As you said, "someone else has laid claim to the title". So, Ami is probably not USER4, but she might be related to it in some way, just like Yasu is related to HOPE or Tsuneyo is related to The Wires One.
After all, we all remember seeing Himawari standing with three other Ami(s). And the way Himawari explained to Ayane that Ami wouldn't actually harm her shows that Himawari knows Ami quite well. Yes, she is a doppelgänger, so she understands girls very well, but that doesn't mean she understands their intentions as well, does it?
Alas, I don't want to dwell on this matter at the moment. So, I will just leave it at that. I believe that Himawari and Ami are somehow connected, leading to their alliance.
It seems to be related to Futaba and Nodoka, as Futaba's Chapter 1 'Upside Down' Event more or less introduced this "Upside Down House" through a notebook that was apparently from someone in it:
Presumably, it's also related to Sensei's and Nodoka's mothers, and possibly to Sel's last game 'Nothing is Beautiful'. Noriko has watched it, it's appeared during resets and happy events, it's appeared on TV with Otoha, and Niki. Etc.
We don't know yet. There is this "tv show/movie" that is on all the time according to Noriko, in the old district, about a group of women stuck inside a boarded up house. And each time she watched it, it was showing different things. However, she noticed that as she watched it in the dorms (outside of the old district), it changed to them eating some sort of grey substance (whereas it was real food when she watched it before).
The upside down house could also be related to Nodoka's mother, maybe she even lived in it. As both her mother and her wife (?) seemed to be a part of this movie. Otoha also watches this, Nodoka makes mention of it, and it even shows up in the room with the clocks (possibly, but it's not upside down then).
From a different angle, there is a note somewhere about a woman that had to follow the rules of the house - and that makes me think that the upside down house might have been Sekai's childhood home (she didn't have a good relationship with her parents apparently, since she refused to answer when being called her family name).
That could mean that the upside down house could be "grandma's home", that Ami mentions - in case that the grandma is Sekai's mother, instead of Saki. However if that is the same house by a lake that Tsuneyo mentions, I don't know. DeSkel15 please address these as well if you're going to answer Nadekai's question.
That note is probably from Futaba's 'Upside Down' Chapter 1 Event, where rules, papa, and the boiler room, are mentioned. It also seems like this house is at the edge of the universe.
As for the house near a lake that has clues, that Tsuneyo mentioned, it could definitely be "Grandma's house". Ami implied it was by a lake:
Assuming "Grandma's house" may be related to Yuu's house (which Saki once lived by, and may have moved into at some point), in Sel's previous game 'Nothing is Beautiful', then it should also be near a lake, since in NiB there was a lake, that Yuu casually visits at one point:
How about another crazy theory that is lacking in sufficient evidence? A random thought just assaulted my mind:
Three gods, three sides of a cross - they all begin with C: Callous, Calm, Concerned.
But then we're told that a cross has four sides, not three. Well, what if the fourth also begins with a C? Like the Caretaker (or "Caring" if we're to follow the trend of adjectives).
We can add a lot more to this, but since this isn't a thesis but just a random thought - I'll stop here. I don't think this Ami is USER4, but some other Ami could be. Three sides of a cross make a T, from Teacher Sekai. And what is the fourth side of Teacher Sekai, what is the part that was only added later? her daughter. And this would both be an entity that is formed prior the resets, and also resonate with Akira's own care for Ami herself. Because, just as he can be Callous, Calm and Concerned, he can also care for her, as we've seen.
Is USER4 the Caring god then? Or, if you don't agree with any of this, how about the C thing? Will USER4 also have a C? And if so, what will it be if not Caretaker or Collector?
Well guys, i'm just playing what i have missed last few patchs and this should have nothing to do with any discussion going on here but I have to get this off my chest: Holy shit i would kill Ami for fun
How about another crazy theory that is lacking in sufficient evidence? A random thought just assaulted my mind:
Three gods, three sides of a cross - they all begin with C: Callous, Calm, Concerned.
But then we're told that a cross has four sides, not three. Well, what if the fourth also begins with a C? Like the Caretaker (or "Caring" if we're to follow the trend of adjectives).
We can add a lot more to this, but since this isn't a thesis but just a random thought - I'll stop here. I don't think this Ami is USER4, but some other Ami could be. Three sides of a cross make a T, from Teacher Sekai. And what is the fourth side of Teacher Sekai, what is the part that was only added later? her daughter. And this would both be an entity that is formed prior the resets, and also resonate with Akira's own care for Ami herself. Because, just as he can be Callous, Calm and Concerned, he can also care for her, as we've seen.
Is USER4 the Caring god then? Or, if you don't agree with any of this, how about the C thing? Will USER4 also have a C? And if so, what will it be if not Caretaker or Collector?
I love the idea of The Caretaker pointing to a Caring God, and that Ami is somehow connected. The stuff about "on the way to twenty-four" is a great catch, I don't see what it could mean except TERMINAL 24, which means Ami either somehow knows about a coming "mega reset" or maybe even has the ability to cause it herself.
When I thought about (some version) of Ami being involved in USER4, I wondered if it could have something to do with the mysterious "return to form," and I found something that I'm kicking myself for not noticing earlier:
Ami uses the phrase "return to form" four times. In "All For You" the narrator uses the specific term "fourth form" to refer to the emergence of a new God, who with all of the four symbolism is presumably USER4.
So I think "the two of US return to form" refers to two people/entities combining to form USER4. Since it's a return to form, I would think that USER4 was once whole, but was split into halves. Ami refers to (probably) herself as half of a whole:
In the context here, the "whole" is her mom, which could have unsettling implications for the nature of a reformed USER4.
If one of the halves is (some version of) Ami, who is the other? The narrator of "Miserably Ever After" also uses the phrase, so I assume that narrator is either Ami or the other half of US. This might sound crazy, but I have a theory for who it is:
Was wagering that one of each of their upcoming events were h scenes. Like during the first event of each he's with them, and the h scene being the second chained to it.
It would be the most logical, wholesome, and vanilla ending possible. First girlfriend and childhood friend becomes a mother to the daughter of her lifelong love and the abuser that fucked up both their lives - thus providing the support both of them needed and eventually being a huge part in them forming a real healthy family.
The one problem I see in this is, of course, Maya. As Noriko said (implied) when Wizard Maya had sex with Akira she put him in a position from which he would never be able to get out of. He was just a victim until then, but in that moment he became something else and now has a responsability to Maya (prime or not), that I'm curious to see how would go in this perfect ending with Niki and Ami.
Edit: Also, even in this ending, I gotta admit that the chances of Noriko still trying to ntr her sister decades later (with her now brother in law) is a very real possibility. I wonder if wife Niki would at some point just get tired and straight up allow Noriko to have sex with Akira for her to get it out of her system...
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