Holy wall of text Batman. While I appreciate you sharing your theories about Rin's hypothetical emotional state - though I would appreciate them more if you used line breaks - what I was asking is what happens during the event itself, and what are Sensei's thoughts there.
I can get a little wordy in my replies depending on what needs said. That one isn't a theory, it is a series of observations based on her events both leading up to and resulting from her cofession. Her mental state isn't hypothetical, it is very much a reality within the world of the game. Play her events and you'll see before you ever even get to her confession. I had assumed your question was a what if on what would happen if player Sensei had successfully managed not to be found out, so apologies if that turned out to be a misinterpretation. Because of the nature of the answer to your question, in this comment I am replying to, it will be spoilered due to having a direct description of the events.
Oh boy was that painful to watch again, lasting emotional impact is a great sign, well done
Selebus. I had to go through from the point we first learn of her feelings to the last scene using my bad homie save. The spoiler tells the gist of the entire line of events from finding out about Rin's crush to the end of her event line in the case of betrayal, including what happens if you betray her when there is a divergence from the non-betrayal line. This will tell you all you need to know both about how severe her depression is as well as what happens throughout the event line, including the specific event in question. I went ahead and broke up the text by event for you, that should make it easier to read. I don't normally worry about formatting on forums.
Pun was not intended, especially with the subject matter, I was just trying to find a way to convey that things went from 0 to 100 real fast. Yeah it was the terminal, thought it was a happy event since thats mostly when these types of things happen, but i couldn't figure out the username for the longest time in both instances.
Yeah, that can happen in this game. No, the terminal is not in a 'happy' event. I suggest going into the event tracker and replaying the last 'happy' event and the main event
There Is Nothing. You will notice the terminal never comes up in the former, but does in the latter.
Bruh, comic books are analyzed as visual medium and understood as such, you can tell a story with zero text and only visuals. Can you argue in good faith that comics/manga are visual medium, but vn are not? I can't. I can't exactly tell you where is a cut off point between a textual and visual mediums, what ratio of text to picture it is, but vn are definitely visual medium.
"Too much text" is absolutely a valid argument, if it wasn't there will be no editing. If it doesn't serve any valid purpose, cut it out. There's a meme going around, that the "left can't meme" or whatever. It usually goes with examples of such butched attempts, with walls of text attached. I understand, that's a bit reaching, but if enything mems are visual mediums, they require the least amount of text.
Visual part in vn goes beyond "aid", it's a parallel avenue of telling a story, and in Lessons of Love there are many examples of "showing, but not telling", in other words delivering information exclusively through visual means.
The "too much text" argument isn't about overall word count. You have an impression that there's too much text if it doesn't do anything for you. It repeats things that are already said, establish already established things, doesn't do anything for characters or story etc. It's entirely subjective, but it's there.
If you keep hearing "there's too much _blank_" in your story, movie, whatever, even if medium that you use to tell said story relies heavily on this _blank_ to the point of being defined as a medium by this thing, it's time to tweak things around, shorten this a and that, smart it up, change the way you deliver this piece of info, if it's important, or cut it away if it's not. This apply to anything, be it books or movies.
Even in my response I cut things away, that I deemed unimportant, or too poorly worded to be meaningful and broke it down by paragraphs to make it somewhat easier to read. I bet you did that too with your answer. Because "too much" is still too much.
Because comics ARE a visual medium, the text doesn't tell you what is going on in most scenes and rarely conveys most of the important information. Visual novels, however, convey ALL the important information in the text.
No, there is no such thing as 'too much text' in a work of fiction of ANY medium. In fact, the more text you have, the more information you have, the better you can understand what is going on. The same works with having visual aids like the pictures in a visual novel, they give you further detail that the text often doesn't go into in order to keep the story going at a consistent pace.
Editing is often more about mistakes than too many words and in only one case does editing involve a slimming down of the word count, when there is a maximum word count limit involved.
ALL text in a visual novel or any other text medium serves a purpose or it would not be there.
No, the visuals in a visual novel are merely to aid the player in understanding what is going on, hence visual aid. If it doesn't do anything for you, that's on you, collective you, not personal you. It isn't the text's fault that it doesn't do something for you.
No, it is NEVER time to 'tweak things around' just because someone says it. It is ALWAYS time to follow your vision as the developer and your vision alone. 'Tweaking things' based on feedback in the manner you are suggesting is how a lot of games, visual novel or otherwise, end up with feature and content creep through requests and such and then get so tedious the deeloper simply abandons them with half-finished content still in place. There is a time and a place for tweaks, that time is when a bug or typo is found and that place is whatever line it is on in the code.
No, I don't break my replies down, except maybe some formatting on occasion for reading purposes, because I always reply with exactly what I want to say. No more, no less.
For what it's worth, I don't agree it's a betrayal if you don't know beforehand how Rin feels. I know you don't agree and that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. But I think you're really downplaying the following aspects
1.) There is a path that you can engage with Chika BEFORE you know Rin is into her.
2.) There is no indication before you start Schadenfreude that it will go down the path it does.
3.) Once you realize where Schadenfreude is going, you have no choices to stop except to load a old save (or rollback if you're not too far into it).
4.) If you haven't made the promise to Rin and she hasn't told her your feelings, you have no reason to stop. This event might not be required for the beach event but it is required in general to progress. And neither of these things can be known by a first time player.
5.) Comparing this to real life is a bad comparison because a game cannot possibly address all the different aspects and choices a real person can make in this situation.
All that being said, Selebus has said that the intent is to be unfair here. That you are meant to fail in situations like this. So if that is the intent, then so be it. I still don't like that particular situation but it's not even close to making me not want to play the game. I like the game enough to redo a significant portion not to hurt Rin's feelings and not cheat. I don't want to be a "Bad Homie" and if given all the information up front, I would have made decisions to that effect.
Now... just to head off the "real life" argument. Could this happen in real life? Sure. I could ask someone out that a friend of mine is into without knowing they are into them. I could do so in a way that they don't know I've done it. That in and of itself is not a betrayal in my book. As based on the information I have at the time, I don't know that I'm hurting anyone.
Once I /do/ know that my friend is into them, I have four choices.
1. Tell them what has happened and break it off --> Good Homie
2. Tell them what has happened and not break it off --> Bad Homie
3. Don't tell them what has happened and break it off --> Still probably Bad Homie
4. Do what Sensai did --> Definitely Bad Homie and the only option we're given in the game.
So once again, I'm not asking it be changed because Selebus has communicated that it was the intent here. I don't like it and that's fine. There are other things about games I love that I don't like. There are very few that love EVERY aspect of a game 100%. We still love them, we still play them as I will with this game.
It is a betrayal because you trampled all over her feelings, regardless of if you knew about them. Also, in the event where the warnings are given, even player Sensei states that her crush is blatantly obvious. You had a chance to be warned and didn't take it. There are two VERY distinct lines in one of Rin's events that specifically say DO NOT touch Chika. Not word for word, but you get the idea.
1) The only way to get this path is to purposely skip the warnings Rin gives you, collective you, not personal. You made the decision to skip the warning, so it is still you who bears the blame.
2) Yes there is, Rin's warnings that you, collective you, chose to skip.
3) Yes, you, collective you, made the choice to proceed with the one thing Rin asked you not to do in the one event you decided to skip. (
Selebus Here's an idea, I don't know how viable it is at this point, but maybe disable rollback so the player cannot simply undo their decision without the drastic measure of reloading?)
4) Because you, collective you, skipped the event where she said these things, still on you because you didn't read the warnings.
5) The outcome that is in is the same both in real life and in the game, you, collective you, failed to heed the warnings, you proceeded to trample all over a young maiden's heart, and you damaged her ability to trust the people around her. Think of this, what if she goes into yet another episode of delirium down the line? She has now learned she can't trust the people around her, so she doesn't know where to turn and possibly turns to the one thing she can't take back in this scenario. Nobody has the ability to stop her all because you betrayed her.
Yes, the intent is to be unfair, because that's how it is in the real world. That's just how these types of things work. Granted that's also just how things work in the Denpa genre. Yes, we are meant to fail, though I do intend to beat the system in that regard.
I'm not so sure #3 is a bad homie situation. You didn't tell the person, but you did break off the relationship, which would allow them to get with the one they love if they choose to pursue them. That sounds more like a noble sacrifice after a mistake was made to me.
So I'm here baking cookies for Santa, and instead of thinking of delicious baked goods or Christmas cheer, I'm sitting here worrying about Makoto and cursing
myself Sensei for being such a shit friend.
Fuck you, Selebus, and your masterfully written characters and narrative. Also, Merry Christmas Selebus (and everyone here)! HOPE your holiday season is full of
clocks crucifixion existential dread watermelons happiness and blessings! Praise be
I'm still worried about Rin going into another delirium episode. Anyway, merry Christmas to you as well and to everyone here. Praise be to all who walk the righteous path of HOPE-Sama, and since it is officially one of the days involved in a holiday of peace and goodwill, the heretics who deny him as well. (I really should probably stop this, I'm starting to sound like a freaking cultist, but I'm having so much fun and it has my creative juices flowing. I was able to pump out two handwritten musical parts last night because of all this HOPE-Sama talk.)
