Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.53.0] [Selebus]

[Fire Lord Zuko]

Guys, I hate to admit it… but I have one of Good Kid’s songs stuck in my head now. “First Rate Town” it’s called. The music really didn’t fit the update imo, but I won’t deny it’s kinda catchy.

Damn you, Sel!

 

[Detective Dc345]

I still have doubts about those aliens actually been real.

I mean there is a space war and if they aren't fighting aliens are they fighting space itself? And if that's the case I suddenly don't feel so bad for Maki and Makoto if their loved one got murdered by a black void of nothingness.

 

[FireCazador]

Spoiler: Thoughts about update

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[Unseenatlas]

So far the girls that Akira has stopped himself from moving forward in the relationship are Imani, Kaori, Molly (because of the trauma he had in chapter 2) and Rin from what I remember,

Rin even pointed out that Akira could have made her fall in love with him several times but he didn't.

What is so unusual about these girls that makes Akira avoid being with them?

dont forget about yumi. even though he kissed her once, and blacks out with her around alot, he is very surprisingly adept with holding himself back. i will say that he probably will stop holding himself back with almost if not all of these girls this chapter.

 

[Xiondingens]

I mean there is a space war and if they aren't fighting aliens are they fighting space itself? And if that's the case I suddenly don't feel so bad for Maki and Makoto if their loved one got murdered by a black void of nothingness.

Is there a war? We have never seen it. And if you look at what we know of this space war, it seems again just be a a convinient explanation why there are barely any men in the city besides akira. Well that and the wall. Only that the wall in context of the space war only makes sense if you dont think about it.

I still hope that the whole space war/wall doesnt end in some sort of dark city plottwist. And outside of the wall there is nothing but space and the whole city has just been created or removed from earth completely and all those gods are basically just the aliens who have won the war long, long ago and are now just fucking with what is left of humanity. especially maya and akira for some weird reason.

 

[Unseenatlas]

Is there a war? We have never seen it. And if you look at what we know of this space war, it seems again just be a a convinient explanation why there are barely any men in the city besides akira. Well that and the wall. Only that the wall in context of the space war only makes sense if you dont think about it.

I still hope that the whole space war/wall doesnt end in some sort of dark city plottwist. And outside of the wall there is nothing but space and the whole city has just been created or removed from earth completely and all those gods are basically just the aliens who have won the war long, long ago and are now just fucking with what is left of humanity. especially maya and akira for some weird reason.

its basically sel's plot point of why there are so few men in the story. chances are, while its "real" it will have no real affect on the story other then having a male dieI(like maki and makoto case)

 

[DeSkel15]

I mean there is a space war and if they aren't fighting aliens are they fighting space itself? And if that's the case I suddenly don't feel so bad for Maki and Makoto if their loved one got murdered by a black void of nothingness.

You know, ironically, Noriko did imply the space war was an economic thing:

Spoiler

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It'd be kind of neat if the "gods" were just fighting eachother over space and resources in this reality, in the background. Using characters they don't need (like most men), as tools against eachother.

Considering Kumon-mi and The Pareidolia Mall seem to be living things, that grow, change, and bring things in, then there being some kind of space/resource issue wouldn't be too surprising.

 

[Xiondingens]

its basically sel's plot point of why there are so few men in the story. chances are, while its "real" it will have no real affect on the story other then having a male dieI(like maki and makoto case)

But you see, the death of maki's husband didnt affect the story at all. Just the fallout it caused did.

 

[Detective Dc345]

You know, ironically, Noriko did imply the space war was an economic thing:

Spoiler

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It'd be kind of neat if the "gods" were just fighting eachother over space and resources in this reality, in the background. Using characters they don't need (like most men), as tools against eachother.

Considering Kumon-mi and The Pareidolia Mall seem to be living things, that grow, change, and bring things in, then there being some kind of space/resource issue wouldn't be too surprising.

Mashiro got murdered by numbers?! That's even worse than getting killed by space itself.

 

[barglenarglezous]

its basically sel's plot point of why there are so few men in the story. chances are, while its "real" it will have no real affect on the story other then having a male dieI(like maki and makoto case)

We're literally told at one point "ignore the war, it's not important"

 

[Detective Dc345]

Is there a war? We have never seen it. And if you look at what we know of this space war, it seems again just be a a convinient explanation why there are barely any men in the city besides akira. Well that and the wall. Only that the wall in context of the space war only makes sense if you dont think about it.

I still hope that the whole space war/wall doesnt end in some sort of dark city plottwist. And outside of the wall there is nothing but space and the whole city has just been created or removed from earth completely and all those gods are basically just the aliens who have won the war long, long ago and are now just fucking with what is left of humanity. especially maya and akira for some weird reason.

I think you're over analyzing the bit. You'll know when something is an important plot detail and when something is a joke.

 

[Fire Lord Zuko]

We're literally told at one point "ignore the war, it's not important"

…Unleeeeeess… potential fake out??

“Yeah, the war’s just a convenient gag. Don’t worry about it.”

*wink*

 

[DeSkel15]

Mashiro got murdered by numbers?! That's even worse than getting killed by space itself.

I bet it was number 23 who did it. That dude is fucking suspicious. Right Yasu?:

Spoiler

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Thanks Yasu.

 

[fdsasdf_p]

We dont even know for sure if it is. Like i mentioned a while ago, memory manipulation is a thing in the story for a while now. And there is no one there who could tell if this is the actual OG maya before the time loops.

To disambiguate, I assume your "memory manipulation" means "further altering Maya's memories from the original time line in addition to the effects of removing all her experiences within the loop".

In principle, what you suggest is possible. There are, however, a few things in this update that make me think the chance of additional memory manipulation happening here is low.

- First is that from Noriko's Rivals, scenes transitioning between present and wizard age indicate that the dynamics between the two are still similar and recognizable by Noriko. Other lines in the same event such as "Right now, one of them was terrified. And the other was simply...nostalgic" and "Especially now that her brain was a brain again" to me all suggest that her memory as well as her personality are simply reverted back to a state that is complicated but chronologically existed.

- Next is that Noriko actually is a character that can tell if this is the OG Maya or not. However, the incoherence she voices out is: how Maya felt different and how Maya almost lunged at her a second time as if it was Maya's first time seeing her since ages (When the Sun Sleeps). Both can be easily chalked up to the effect of removing Maya's loop memory without further manipulating her "base memories". And since Noriko hasn't said anything additional, I am going with this is the OG Maya.

- Last thing is that from the storytelling perspective, tampering with this current Maya's memory beyond removing her experiences in the loops seems rather redundant and unnecessary. From what we've seen so far, the main purposes of this mechanism is to revise key people's memories associated with the apocalypse while create incoherence from Sensei's POV, and foreshadow the fact that Prime Maya's understanding toward the loop might be incorrect.

Since new Maya no longer holds any cosmic secret, and since there is no reference point to determine whether memories are manipulated or not like you said, I don't see a point in creating fake memories and/or personalities now from a story writing perspective when there is no one to confuse and when Sensei already thinks she is fake enough compared to the Maya he loves. Basically, why write even more fake memories when you already did a substantial personality swapping? This logic may not be stringent, but without any solid sign of memory manipulation followed by a specific purpose, I'd rather believe her memory now, without the influence of the loop, is as close as her OG state gets; otherwise the other option is a rabbit hole that considers everything is possibly fake.

If what you meant is actually "deducting loop memories from Prime Maya doesn't straight equal OG Maya", then sure this is something I would agree on and think about. Other than that, there is a lot less reason to ponder the possibility of new Maya being OG Maya plus some additional memory manipulation simply because this magical macguffin has always been on the table.

 

[Xiondingens]

I think you're over analyzing the bit. You'll know when something is an important plot detail and when something is a joke.

Maybe i do. But there are still two important questions. Why is there a space war going on, coincidentally while the whole city is walled off and trapped in an eternal timeloop? And why do people never really talk about it? It is almost as if they all are in a perpetual state of been able to acknowledge there is a space war going on and most of the men are up there fighting and the city will be kept walled up for the war. But not really been able to think much beyond that.

I mean what do we know about those aliens? Aliens that i remind you wage a war seemingly against humanity that affects the life of everyone been traped in the city? Nothing. We dont know anything about them. We dont know anything about the war. I mean look at the world. Look at the city. It is not a futuristic world. The city looks normal. The year as we have been told is even in the past. I dont remember the exact year right now, but it is 201X iirc. So what sort of space war are they able to wage with aliens with that kind of technology? Like i said, it just makes sense if you dont think about it. And i am not sure if sel even want us to think about it, because he himself hasnt.

And that is why i have my doubts those aliens are even real, just like the war. And people just dont realise that, because they are prevented from thinking about it. Just like most of the girls still cant even paying attention when the timeloop is mentioned. If they are not aware, they cant acknowledge it was even mentioned.

 

[Duskreyn]

The answer is in the second event of the game, not much more to add.

 

[Xiondingens]

To disambiguate, I assume your "memory manipulation" means "further altering Maya's memories from the original time line in addition to the effects of removing all her experiences within the loop".

By memory manipulation i actually did mean that in general, memories of peoples have been manipulated by external forces all over the story. But yes, in the context of that conversation i did mean altering maya's memories.

In principle, what you suggest is possible. There are, however, a few things in this update that make me think the chance of additional memory manipulation happening here is low.

And sure, you make some strong points, but all those people wouldnt be really in to the more intimate details of the maya-akira relationship. So while some of them would be aware of that, they would have a hard time knowing well enough about the details, to know if this is actually still working out as it did before the timeloops. I mean someone did mention that it now feels more like some sort of toxic codependency. And i think it is a valid question if that would be actually the real maya, or if that part of her was rewritten for some reason.

I mean, it feels a bit like maya had to learn a lesson until she finally got a new sensei who would be able to turn into the real akira again. What if now that maya has been reset, it is his time of learning or maybe suffering? I mean i dont say that this is what happened. I just say that it is a valid question if this is really 100% the maya as she was before her personal reset.

 

[Bingoogus]

I feel the need to, again, point out this small but significant detail when discussing Makoto's dad dying. We never see him die, we never see him alive, we never see him at all, he could've been dead for a billion years, he could be in stasis in a tank in some alien's lab, we don't know shit about him. What we do know, all that we know, is that Maki got an automated phonecall informing her of his death that ended with, i think it was 'remember to smile', which was an obvious flag to it being god bullshit rather that it being 'real'. The phonecall is all that is 'real', the contents are entirely irrelevant as there is simply no way to know if it's real or god bullshit, the end result looks identical and thus should be discarded.

People always talk about Mashiro dying like it's a fact and it bugs me cause that part is not the important part and is completely unverified and unverifiable. But i'm beginning to ramble, even Makoto doesn't seem to have clicked to the phonecall being irrelevant to her father's actual status.

 

[Xiondingens]

People always talk about Mashiro dying like it's a fact and it bugs me cause that part is not the important part and is completely unverified and unverifiable. But i'm beginning to ramble, even Makoto doesn't seem to have clicked to the phonecall being irrelevant to her father's actual status.

Good point, everything related to the whole space war is dubious at best.

And no, i dont let a single statement in an event from years ago by now tell me "move on, there is nothing to see here". Especially because there isnt much comic relief with the space war at all when i think about it. It usually just causes people to suffer. So if you consider that "comic relief" welp...

So that statement doesnt has much weight, if any at all, in my book.

 

[Detective Dc345]

Maybe i do. But there are still two important questions. Why is there a space war going on, coincidentally while the whole city is walled off and trapped in an eternal timeloop? And why do people never really talk about it? It is almost as if they all are in a perpetual state of been able to acknowledge there is a space war going on and most of the men are up there fighting and the city will be kept walled up for the war. But not really been able to think much beyond that.

I mean what do we know about those aliens? Aliens that i remind you wage a war seemingly against humanity that affects the life of everyone been traped in the city? Nothing. We dont know anything about them. We dont know anything about the war. I mean look at the world. Look at the city. It is not a futuristic world. The city looks normal. The year as we have been told is even in the past. I dont remember the exact year right now, but it is 201X iirc. So what sort of space war are they able to wage with aliens with that kind of technology? Like i said, it just makes sense if you dont think about it. And i am not sure if sel even want us to think about it, because he himself hasnt.

And that is why i have my doubts those aliens are even real, just like the war. And people just dont realise that, because they are prevented from thinking about it. Just like most of the girls still cant even paying attention when the timeloop is mentioned. If they are not aware, they cant acknowledge it was even mentioned.

I know this is late but it took me forever to figure out how to use this shitty photo editor I found online.