Ren'Py Lessons in Love [v0.54.0] [Selebus]

[Budoop]

You would know Ami was aware of the resets a lot earlier if you played red route (good uncle) as there's way more hints.
Also I think it's in chapter 2 where Maya mentions that Ami simply gets pissed off whenever Maya tried to raise the issue of the resets.

This is a categorical red flag quite early on because everyone else throughout history would simply loop their previous comment.

There's been plenty of hints IMO, I'm baffled this is news to people cause I called this out years ago as a direct result of mounting evidence.
Im not smart and I've basically considered it confirmed for ages (although a lot of the early hints are red route related).

 

[Moonflare]

I don't think that's the issue that's being raised. It's very easy to cherry-pick evidence of Ami being aware and go "it was there all along!".

Spoiler: explanation

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But without this explanation from Himawari in 0.53, just going "there were clues and I noticed it a long time ago!" would be ignoring the clues that she did not know, which are also there - because Ami doesn't seem to know all the time.

Edit: Adding the link to an old post that examines an early indication that Ami knew "Something Darker" or "likely the moment that Akira has sex with Ami in every cycle". But, again, future playthroughs have to look for the moments where she didn't as well, to try to fit Himawari's explanation.

 

[Budoop]

Ahh I get your point now.
I would make mention that she would be intentionally hiding her knowledge but I assume there's things to suggest this is not the case that I haven't picked up on.

Truth be told I do kind of get a bit lost with the whole "multiple Amis" thing, or used to when I first saw it being mentioned.
I do recall Ami explicitly saying in red route that she has had him before and is pissed he wont bite this time, I think its right before Maya Prime get snapped. She makes a concrete comment during what would be the Nodoka threesome.

I couldn't argue it 100% either way.

 

[John Smith V]

When does Kyoko say that Nodoka's father is called Akira? Also, it's established by "perfect hair forever" that Nodoka's his little sister. Not that it's an established fact by him saying it, but it is established that he did call her that (and not daughter).

Spoiler: perfect hair forever

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There's more to the event but it starts to get cryptic.

Edit: With the jealous cloud thing, I do wonder sometimes if the answer towards Ami has been staring us in the face all along in the sense that maybe she isn't real (like she didn't exist outside of the resets). This really doesn't have enough evidence, it's just a stray thought. This one had a bit of merit before the Maya reveal, now not really much.

This was great - or maybe I think that because it was how I saw them too.

 

[aramaug]

In relation to Akira's parents and their seemingly unknown fate (and also Sekai):

Spoiler: What we know

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My guess would be that the timeline goes something like:

Spoiler: Theorycrafting

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In regards to the rest of your post, though, I fully agree.

Welcome to the thread.

The timeline is very confusing, but Saki was definitely still alive for at least part of the period of Akira's sexual abuse. I think that follows from the way she caught him masturbating and how she's the "other woman" who sometimes got into his bed in "Goodnight Moon", but it's especially unambiguous in a flashback where Niki talks about Akira's mom in the present tense:

Spoiler: Beauty in What's Broken

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That being said, it's hard to imagine Saki was around when Nozomu locked Akira in a closet for days (which happened before he even met Sekai). I wonder if something forced her to be away temporarily, and that's what Nozomu blamed Akira for. For example, she could have been in a hospital, mental institute, or prison.

In regards to Sekai, Sensei said that she first entered his life because his brother "met a girl", and she didn't even know Akira existed before she found him in the closet. I think this establishes that Akira and Nozomu didn't know that Sekai was their sister. On the other hand, I suspect that Sekai did know - her obsession with incest and "keeping the bloodline strong" would explain her initial interest in Nozomu.

There's an old idea worth mentioning here that Yuu's children come from different timelines. I don't know if I really believe it, but it has become a lot more plausible after what we've learned about people moving between worlds, both voluntarily and not. (Brief version: Sekai comes from a timeline where Yuu completed the "Miu route", Akira and Nozomu from one where he completed the "Saki route". They first met when Sekai and Nozomu were adults because she somehow managed to travel to a different world which had brothers she could fuck without anyone knowing they're related.)

 

[derekthered56]

I actually find it completely believable, but not for any obvious reasons. I have two Ami theories that I've been kicking around as things have progressed

Spoiler: Ami Theories and Spoilers

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Spoiler

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[crustlord12]

In my opinion, I hope there aren't many more people related to Akira than already explicitly established (Ami, Himawari, and Nozomi). If Nodoka, Sekai, etc etc are all related to him, it gets to the point of "why?" for me, like what does it really add to the story if every character is somehow his sister-cousin-grandma?

(That said, if he's somehow Sana's dad due to time travel I'm on board (but only if it "makes sense" (in the context of LiL)))

 

[CharlotteWiltshire26]

Welcome to the thread.

The timeline is very confusing, but Saki was definitely still alive for at least part of the period of Akira's sexual abuse. I think that follows from the way she caught him masturbating and how she's the "other woman" who sometimes got into his bed in "Goodnight Moon", but it's especially unambiguous in a flashback where Niki talks about Akira's mom in the present tense:

Spoiler: Beauty in What's Broken

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That being said, it's hard to imagine Saki was around when Nozomu locked Akira in a closet for days (which happened before he even met Sekai). I wonder if something forced her to be away temporarily, and that's what Nozomu blamed Akira for. For example, she could have been in a hospital, mental institute, or prison.

In regards to Sekai, Sensei said that she first entered his life because his brother "met a girl", and she didn't even know Akira existed before she found him in the closet. I think this establishes that Akira and Nozomu didn't know that Sekai was their sister. On the other hand, I suspect that Sekai did know - her obsession with incest and "keeping the bloodline strong" would explain her initial interest in Nozomu.

There's an old idea worth mentioning here that Yuu's children come from different timelines. I don't know if I really believe it, but it has become a lot more plausible after what we've learned about people moving between worlds, both voluntarily and not. (Brief version: Sekai comes from a timeline where Yuu completed the "Miu route", Akira and Nozomu from one where he completed the "Saki route". They first met when Sekai and Nozomu were adults because she somehow managed to travel to a different world which had brothers she could fuck without anyone knowing they're related.)

Huh. Thank you for pointing out the Niki line from “Beauty in What's Broken” – I must have somehow completely blacked out on the fact that she said this, as it doesn’t show anywhere in my notes.

Saki still being in the picture at that point in time does indeed contradict my earlier proposed timeline, and while I wasn't particularly gung-ho about its validity or anything, I’m… not really sure how to mentally reconcile all of my assumptions about things relating to Sekai and Nozomu with the idea that both the abuse and the illicit relationship between Akira and Sekai were apparently going on *while* Saki was still alive. Maybe she was like Kyoko: technically present, but not *truly* there, even if not necessarily to the same extent? That could potentially work, and still line up with the majority of my previous guesses. I will have to think on it some more at a later date.

As for the Yuu stuff, on a slightly unrelated note, it does kinda make me wonder how this supposed remake of Nothing is Beautiful that Selebus plans to make after LiL would even look like. Because I would assume that, with how many direct connections to NiB characters there currently are in the game (and their number is only going to grow as the narrative develops further), by the time Lessons in Love finishes we are going to have a fairly decent idea of who most of the Terminal 22 inhabitants were and how they ultimately ended up – like, I can’t imagine that Saki’s eventual fate doesn’t *directly* relate to the childhood development of both Akira and Nozomu, or that who Miu grew up to be as an adult and a mother didn’t at least partially influence the person Sekai ended up becoming.

And so going from LiL, where learning *anything* about *anyone* is a huge struggle, to the point where we’re 150+ hours in and people are still speculating about most of the stuff, to this new story where it’s like “yep, I know who you are; yep, I know what happens to you” is… weird to think about. I’m sure Selebus will find a way to somehow make it work, perhaps with alternate timelines/routes that branch into a brand new future where some wacky things happen, but what I *am* 100% certain of is that reading Nothing is Beautiful (*if* it ever actually gets remade, that is) will be a completely different experience from reading Lessons in Love.

 

[fdsasdf_p]

I actually find it completely believable, but not for any obvious reasons. I have two Ami theories that I've been kicking around as things have progressed

Theory1 indicates “The Ami we met isn’t the same demon Ami we have now” and I have no personal beef with it. In fact, brainstorming when the incursion takes place is a lot easier than contemplating on just how perfect Ami Prime's disguise is since the beginning.

Theory2 sounds interesting but that’s the “more convincing” I’d like Selly to push out at some point; not just the goal she tries to achieve, but also “why” letting things happen in a certain way achieves that goal. "I must cockblock my classmates when my uncle invites them over, but I must do it nicely by playing along and I must not cockblock them more than once unless it's Noriko. I will also be Makoto's personal therapist even though her glasses are stupid and I will also pretend I don't know what's happening during reset2. If I do everything right, I will not need to hide myself any longer because Maya one day will be gone inexplicably and Sensei will be back on Ami route". I know I made it sound unnecessary absurd but I need this kind of convincing in good leg works if Selly is to prove that he has a hidden villain well planted since the beginning.

 

[crustlord12]

Unrelated to anything in this current discussion but when the fuck Rin sex

 

[derekthered56]

Unrelated to anything in this current discussion but when the fuck Rin sex

nah hold on there's got to be at least one more lesbian Rin can get distracted by first

 

[Moonflare]

Yes, and the name of that lesbian is Rika. It's just that she'll get distracted by her mom cucking her instead

 

[akselx]

If Nodoka, Sekai, etc etc are all related to him, it gets to the point of "why?" for me, like what does it really add to the story if every character is somehow his sister-cousin-grandma?

What do you mean "why"? It's for the explicit and noble purpose of turning one's family tree into a family circle, a shape that clearly has some symbolic role in the story. Case closed.

 

[Anonio333]

Just started playing and I see with URM that often "bonus" variable appears. Changing it from True to False shows some text suggesting that MC is some kind of pussy. Did small research and saw one post that it affect some scenes appearance, but don't want too much spoilers. Could someone please tell me without hard spoilers, how much it affect game? And is it somehow connected with bad reviews about MC? I'm just after ~2h playing.

Btw. I've also seen that some people don't like impossibility to change name by game features, that was the main reason I used URM, so sharing a tip: it's possible to change name (how MC talks, not how girls call him) by changing "s.name" variable. Search "name" in URM and go to 3rd page (at least for version 0.54).

 

[Detective Dc345]

Yes, and the name of that lesbian is Rika. It's just that she'll get distracted by her mom cucking her instead

 

[crustlord12]

Just started playing and I see with URM that often "bonus" variable appears. Changing it from True to False shows some text suggesting that MC is some kind of pussy. Did small research and saw one post that it affect some scenes appearance, but don't want too much spoilers. Could someone please tell me without hard spoilers, how much it affect game? And is it somehow connected with bad reviews about MC? I'm just after ~2h playing.

Btw. I've also seen that some people don't like impossibility to change name by game features, that was the main reason I used URM, so sharing a tip: it's possible to change name (how MC talks, not how girls call him) by changing "s.name" variable. Search "name" in URM and go to 3rd page (at least for version 0.54).

Do you also cross out the main character's name in novels that you read and replace it with one of your own choosing?

 

[Anonio333]

Do you also cross out the main character's name in novels that you read and replace it with one of your own choosing?

Yep, all my books are changed, why?

It's a porn game, not a novel, I like to identify with MC.

Edit: If game gives me a reason to change it back to "Sensei" and feed me with some lore, I'll do it. I like it when girls call me that way, but when MC speaks, I prefer to see my name and unless game give me another reason, it stays that way

 

[crustlord12]

Yep, all my books are changed, why?

It's a porn game, not a novel, I like to identify with MC.

No, it's really not a porn game. I see you've only played about 2 hours so far.

It's an adult visual novel that revolves around sex, and without spoiling anything, this is an MC you absolutely do not want to identify with.

Plus, it's not told from the first-person perspective. While we're privy to his thoughts, he talks to us, the reader, as if we are a separate entity.

Edit: to reply to your edit, I can further guarantee there is a lore reason to it all as well as my above points about being an observer of the story.

 

[akselx]

Yep, all my books are changed, why?

It's a porn game, not a novel, I like to identify with MC.

Edit: If game gives me a reason to change it back to "Sensei" and feed me with some lore, I'll do it. I like it when girls call me that way, but when MC speaks, I prefer to see my name and unless game give me another reason, it stays that way

I dont recommend projecting yourself on mc in this game. It's better to treat him as one of the characters. He does actually have a name, but you aren't ment to know it just yet.

 

[Anonio333]

No, it's really not a porn game. I see you've only played about 2 hours so far.

It's an adult visual novel that revolves around sex, and without spoiling anything, this is an MC you absolutely do not want to identify with.

Plus, it's not told from the first-person perspective. While we're privy to his thoughts, he talks to us, the reader, as if we are a separate entity.

I dont recommend projecting yourself on mc in this game. It's better to treat him as one of the characters. He does actually have a name, but you aren't ment to know it just yet.

After what I've readen in some reviews you both may be right. I'm not a guy who attach myself too much to MC, but it's more fun for me to read it with my name and as long as it's not giving me a reason to change it, I'm staying with it and I don't see it as a crime to share knowledge about changing name. For now, I'm just a X tensei'd to MC body

Anyway, I see you both have knowledge about game, I'll be grateful for any tips about bonus variable