Let's discuss Corruption

[Diconica]

One thing I can't understand: what is the difference between corruption and the desire to have sex? !

Corruption is just another name for behavior modification. Sex is but one aspect a person can be corrupted on.
A lot of people get it mixed or don't understand that.
Corruption is referring to the process of getting someone to behave or think differently.
There are a number of methods for doing that. The effectiveness of them differ a lot.
Take you can use fear or threats or violence to get someone to do something immediately.
Generally that doesn't last long unless you have an effect such as stockholm syndrome.
You could use something like incremental behavior modification and that will last a lot longer if not forever.

Also it doesn't have to be something as simple as sex. It could be sex with a specific person, of a certain type, in public...
It doesn't even have to be sex. It could be exposure. It could be masturbating. it could be eating food. It can be really anything.

 

[Dagoth Urgers]

One thing I can't understand: what is the difference between corruption and the desire to have sex? !

Consequence. If B happens because A happened it gives more "meaning" to A.

 

[Losersriot]

Corruption is just another name for behavior modification. Sex is but one aspect a person can be corrupted on.
A lot of people get it mixed or don't understand that.
Corruption is referring to the process of getting someone to behave or think differently.
There are a number of methods for doing that. The effectiveness of them differ a lot.
Take you can use fear or threats or violence to get someone to do something immediately.
Generally that doesn't last long unless you have an effect such as stockholm syndrome.
You could use something like incremental behavior modification and that will last a lot longer if not forever.

Also it doesn't have to be something as simple as sex. It could be sex with a specific person, of a certain type, in public...
It doesn't even have to be sex. It could be exposure. It could be masturbating. it could be eating food. It can be really anything.

I didn't understand again. If I like a guy, I just make a choice: sleep with him. Where is there any corruption here? Its my free choise.

 

[Losersriot]

Consequence. If B happens because A happened it gives more "meaning" to A.

Consequence. If B (sex) happens because A (my choise) happened it gives more "meaning" to A (sex) ? Where 'corruption' here !?

 

[Diconica]

I didn't understand again. If I like a guy, I just make a choice: sleep with him. Where is there any corruption here? Its my free choise.

Corruption comes in how you came to make that choice.
And no, nothing is as simple as I chose to sleep with someone it is my choice.
Your entire behavior through out your life is influenced by various things.
Genetics, your environment, physicality and brain chemistry and a lot more. Most of it can be technically categorized under 4 lists though.

You should start by looking up Nature vs Nurture. People used to argue about which was more important. The truth is both play a role.

An example of corruption:
A girl is raised in a religious family. She is home schooled most her life. She has been taught sex is only for when you are supposed to be married and for bearing children. She dresses modest. A lot of stuff to her is over sexualized in nature so she avoids it.
A Guy comes along who realizes if he wants to have sex with her before marriage he is going to need to change how she thinks. So he starts arranging different ways to expose her to different ideas on sexuality. This can include a lot of ways. Literature, magazines, shopping for clothing, accidental events (TV shows, porn(having it put in wrong mail box), going to beach it turning out to be nudist, ...) anything he can play off not to know about or to be an accident. Once he has her letting down her guard some and dressing a bit different he can move on to further it.


The fact of the matter is a lot of what we do is influenced by society. What we see in magazines, tv, websites ... Even if we think we push it out of our mind and ignore it it still reaches our brains at a subconscious level. That's were corruption comes it by changing how we think of something on the subconscious level so that it changes what we normally do into something else.

The specific reason we use the term corruption is because when it is done it is supposedly moving someone from an innocent and pure state/innocent to a state that is less so.

 

[Losersriot]

Corruption comes in how you came to make that choice.
And no, nothing is as simple as I chose to sleep with someone it is my choice.
Your entire behavior through out your life is influenced by various things.
Genetics, your environment, physicality and brain chemistry and a lot more. Most of it can be technically categorized under 4 lists though.

You should start by looking up Nature vs Nurture. People used to argue about which was more important. The truth is both play a role.

An example of corruption:
A girl is raised in a religious family. She is home schooled most her life. She has been taught sex is only for when you are supposed to be married and for bearing children. She dresses modest. A lot of stuff to her is over sexualized in nature so she avoids it.
A Guy comes along who realizes if he wants to have sex with her before marriage he is going to need to change how she thinks. So he starts arranging different ways to expose her to different ideas on sexuality. This can include a lot of ways. Literature, magazines, shopping for clothing, accidental events (TV shows, porn(having it put in wrong mail box), going to beach it turning out to be nudist, ...) anything he can play off not to know about or to be an accident. Once he has her letting down her guard some and dressing a bit different he can move on to further it.


The fact of the matter is a lot of what we do is influenced by society. What we see in magazines, tv, websites ... Even if we think we push it out of our mind and ignore it it still reaches our brains at a subconscious level. That's were corruption comes it by changing how we think of something on the subconscious level so that it changes what we normally do into something else.

The specific reason we use the term corruption is because when it is done it is supposedly moving someone from an innocent and pure state/innocent to a state that is less so.

Nonsense. If a girl doesn't like a guy, she will send him away regardless of her upbringing. Because his breath stinks. If a girl refuses you on the first date, then she is not sure that you are better than her current boyfriend. Or she has a cycle. In any case, it's her choice.

 

[Asia Argento]

Answer: You dont like Corruption as a fetish, you find it unrealistic.

My answer: The pretty girl in class. She sits in front of you. Never talks to you, never pays you any mind. You hear her one day saying she thinks you stink or whatever. One day by accident you happen upon this spray, you find a shrine or a pair of hyper advanced glasses or a god decides he just wants to fuck around. He is an chaotic neutral god. He gifts you some abilities. Through these abilities you make these girls who find you detestable or dont like you for some reason, start seeing you differently. They notice you. They WANT YOU. Its wish fulfillment.

Or you are Chloe from Chloe 18 and you want something so bad you fall down a rabbit hole where everyone wants to fuck you or have you blow them for some reason, even though everyone claims you dont look all that great. Pretty much Requiem for a Cheerleader Dream. Lol

You dont have to get it, but again, its wish fulfillment either of something YOU want. Or you want to see someone else fall down a rabbit hole of insanity. Something YOU CHOSE.

tl;dr Corruption games are wish fulfillment. They just might not be for you but i love them personally. Usually they have good stories.

 

[Losersriot]

Answer: You dont like Corruption as a fetish, you find it unrealistic.

My answer: The pretty girl in class. She sits in front of you. Never talks to you, never pays you any mind. You hear her one day saying she thinks you stink or whatever. One day by accident you happen upon this spray, you find a shrine or a pair of hyper advanced glasses or a god decides he just wants to fuck around. He is an chaotic neutral god. He gifts you some abilities. Through these abilities you make these girls who find you detestable or dont like you for some reason, start seeing you differently. They notice you. They WANT YOU. Its wish fulfillment.

Or you are Chloe from Chloe 18 and you want something so bad you fall down a rabbit hole where everyone wants to fuck you or have you blow them for some reason, even though everyone claims you dont look all that great. Pretty much Requiem for a Cheerleader Dream. Lol

You dont have to get it, but again, its wish fulfillment either of something YOU want. Or you want to see someone else fall down a rabbit hole of insanity. Something YOU CHOSE.

tl;dr Corruption games are wish fulfillment. They just might not be for you but i love them personally. Usually they have good stories.

If you change yourself (i dont care - god, magic, fitness, or ET), end you not stink now anymore, you agressive and cool guy now, girl change his mind. But... It will be HER decision again.

 

[Asia Argento]

You missed my point. Its wish fulfillment and clearly its not your cup of tea. Because you arent listening to the explanations. I dont like scat, so if I asked someone why they liked being crapped on. I listen to their explanation to gain understanding rather than just deny it at all costs.

Corruption is just someone using wild methods to fulfill someone’s hierarchy of needs. Sometimes mind control and rape are apart of a path of corruption. In one game, it was someone having the bound soul of a succubus within them and forcing them to be a public toilet broke the seal and led to their full corruption.

Again, this isnt your genre. Just like I dont dig the poop fetish or netorare and thats fine. We all have our desires.

 

[Diconica]

Nonsense. If a girl doesn't like a guy, she will send him away regardless of her upbringing. Because his breath stinks. If a girl refuses you on the first date, then she is not sure that you are better than her current boyfriend. Or she has a cycle. In any case, it's her choice.

We are talking science here not your I got feelings and think I am in control.
Behavioral modification is a real thing.
None of us here have time for someone that can't accept reality or deal with facts.
Governments all around the world have spent crap loads of dollars putting research into. The entire mental health professional community recognizes it.
Regardless if you do or don't is insignificant to the fact.
Here is MK ULTRA ran by the CIA using mind altering drugs. US Senate had a hearing on it.

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National institute of health. This is the good side of the what can be done with it.
You can find countless articles on it.

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If you spend some time looking you can find papers and research on how people abuse it.

Most these games don't explain how it really works and to many rely on magic. Primarily because its a subject beyond most people. Then a lot of people don't want to know that it is real because it makes them feel vulnerable. Well the fact is you are unless you know what to look for. Bars, dance clubs, schools such as college, regular social gatherings, of any type are an ideal hunting ground for someone to make use of skills related to it. You have the opportunity for multiple interactions with and with out the person's knowledge and ability to monitor progress with them never knowing anything is even up.

 

[Diconica]

If you have stinking mouth, your science won't help you. And if you start nagging about science on a date, then in combination with the smell from your mouth, you will be known as a finished, hopeless nerd.

I'd say by the way you keep making this remark you are either a virgin or have very little experience. When I marreid my wife she was 19 and 13 years younger than me. She isn't even close to the first or last woman I have been with.
How you carry yourself, how self-assured you are and how well you control the situation and conversation is a million times more important than your breath. Unless that woman has a hang up on that one issue. Even an OCD dental assistant in the right mood can give a fuck about the chilly dogs with garlic & extra onions we had.

 

[telotelo]

you will be known as a finished, hopeless nerd

in just few post this nerd had successfully corrupted you
and turn your curiosity into a valid personal attack
way to go Diconica the Corrupter behavior conditioning is real, no kiddin

on the other hand maybe you should take time to read the pages before, slowly
i'm pretty sure some of them make a very good point
we (including me) are allegedly sober, conscious, and incorrupt when attempting to define this
you can try to understand and then opine (disagree), but to ignore and opine. . .
willn't weigh anything to discuss further rather than debating personal preference, which is. . . meh

(sexual) corruption, depicted in games, is just a glimpse of mechanics involved in it
you can actually use fomo, etc to facilitate corruption now
and none of that can visibly affect the decision made directly if you use shallow take (timewise and other factors)
try deontolog - consequent as simple comparison to that kind of decision in the face of corruption
maybe will give an insight. . .

on the other note. . .
man, i miss that french guy with the funny font
just realize he's resign when revisit this thread

 

[Diconica]

in just few post this nerd had successfully corrupted you
and turn your curiosity into a valid personal attack
way to go Diconica the Corrupter behavior conditioning is real, no kiddin

on the other hand maybe you should take time to read the pages before, slowly
i'm pretty sure some of them make a very good point
we (including me) are allegedly sober, conscious, and incorrupt when attempting to define this
you can try to understand and then opine (disagree), but to ignore and opine. . .
willn't weigh anything to discuss further rather than debating personal preference, which is. . . meh

(sexual) corruption, depicted in games, is just a glimpse of mechanics involved in it
you can actually use fomo, etc to facilitate corruption now
and none of that can visibly affect the decision made directly if you use shallow take (timewise and other factors)
try deontolog - consequent as simple comparison to that kind of decision in the face of corruption
maybe will give an insight. . .

on the other note. . .
man, i miss that french guy with the funny font
just realize he's resign when revisit this thread

I can see how someone may take it as a personal attack. It was just an observation based on their clear lack of understanding of how people behave and interact. People with an ample amount of relationship experience even just dating would understand fairly easily what is being discussed. But this shows a serious level of immaturity. An unwillingness to accept people can be manipulated.
Most middle school children tend to have more of an understanding of this in this country. I would have to head into a more rural community with a heavy religious base to find ones that aren't. That or find some home-school child who's parents are sheltering.

That said I don't disagree with the rest of what you said.

 

[telotelo]

I can see how someone may take it as a personal attack.

no i may twist the offhand remark, rearticulate it carelessly, and warp the interpretation
this can give the one who said it and the other who look at it a shock treatment
rearrange the said word, which also can be analogous to conditioning for corruption
and surprise - surprise, voila! the post is gone, magic isn't it?
it's good to gauge someone by the use of word you alone in conversation
it's the carrot, maybe?

man i should find me some girl named pristine and test this thing out
wouldn't it be irony?

 

[StarSided]

If I were to describe the corruption genre, it would be not heavy handed, incremental and guided. I think it can include non-con but doesn't need to. (That being said, my personal preference is with non-con corruption so it will be discussed more than consensual.)

To me if the game from start to finish is the target being forced to do thing over and over and than boom, they enjoy it the 5th time with no additional details, that's not corruption. It's far too heavy handed and feels super unrealistic. That being said I don't think being heavy handed prevents a game form being labeled within the corruption genre, I just think it's makes the game trash. And when defining a genre I'd like to define what makes the genre good, since ideally the goal is that corruption games in the future are, well, good.

The first essential aspect I will tackle is incremental. If the target of corruption becomes a raving sex crazy maniac within 5 minutes, it's not corruption. Corruption to me is a slow burn that takes time to accomplish. Assuming a lack of heavy-handedness, this involves escalation: becoming more comfortable with nudity, than with touch and finally sensation for example. The exact path doesn't matter but it has to involve escalation. Be it escalation of the acts occurring or escalation of the target of corruption's reaction to them, escalation needs to be present. This is hard to accomplish. Escalation is hard to accomplish in any game and even harder to accomplish in porn where the vast majority of the space is dominated by immediate release. Presumably because people rarely want to play a porn game unless they are wanking. I think at it's crux, the reason so much bad content exists for the corruption tag is simply because the genre relies on escalation which is hard, so games get shrugged off that vital aspect and you end up with something else. Most often a "number go up" mechanic". A corruption stat that goes up every time someone touches the target of corruption's butt isn't a corruption game anymore than Magic the Gathering is a dice game if we use a d20 to represent life totals. I think this number should still exist in plenty of games and it can even be called corruption as a stat, but I don't think it alone qualifies a game as a corruption game. It's just a way to gate content behind grinding, not a genre. To be in the genre itself I think the corruption needs to be fairly core to the game design, or at least the design of the character, not just a number tacked on.

From there I think there are three large branches things fall under. Self guided, consensual guided and con-con guided. The latter two being a gradient without a clear line between them. (The exact line between the self and external influence isn't something I think can be defined with perfection.) Self guided to me needs some work to be realistic because if someone could have done something their entire life, why would they suddenly start doing it now? I think it only works in games where the character just turned 18 and is a blank slate essentially starting a fresh life, or in games where the target of corruption has just undergone some lifechanging event. Given we are talking about games, that event can simply be "oh shit magic exists but I gotta be horny to cast it" so it isn't too hard. Just think about it for a sec before designing the game please. Sadly the majority of self guided "corruption games" seem to be simple number go up stuff like I talked about earlier, but I do think they are possible.

Other guided corruption is where I think the bulk of effective corruption games lie currently. This can range from a new partner who expands interests and explores "corruption" consensually, to someone using manipulation to shape the target of corruption's interests. Introducing new kinks and experiences for the target of corruption could be an example of the consensual route. This likely focuses on finding deep seated desires and asking the target to explore them with the guider. The non-con side can also rely on these deep seated desires, but simply use less consensual methods of exploring them. Such as hypnosis or crafting situations where the target of corruption is exposed to said desires and forced to feel that desire first hand. Being forced to confront their deep seated desires eventually brings them to accept their desires and boom, corruption. This can be accompanied by a potential fail state if it backfires, ect ect, [insert gameplay here]. Non-con however can also rely on the fact that the human brain is malleable. I think the notion that trauma cannot lead to corruption is false. I know people that engage in bdsm and other kinky activities and often times people have had sexual trauma. The ability to engage in risque activity can become a sort of power play to gain control of a situation they had no control of at the time. Additionally, When exposed to an environment consistently for long enough, the human mind adapts to that environment. If a person is consistently exposed to sexual situations it is very likely they will adapt to those situations and at the very least grow less resistant to them. Add in things like reward for sexual actions and/or punishment for lack of sexual actions and you can mold a mind pretty effectively to associate certain kinks with pleasure. You can connect sex act A with enjoyable thing B so the pleasure they feel for B begins to bleed over into A and a lot of other stuff. Horrible in real life but that's what makes it non-con. Get to the point of tossing orgasm denial in and non-con corruption (especially with suspension of disbelief) can make any sexual end-point possible, with or without an innate deep-seated desire being used. It is very possible some of this may "ware-off" eventually, but only if the environment is changed for a prolonged period of time. But everyone's desires change over time so I don't think that is an argument against truma being capable of causing corruption.

That all being said I think deep seated desire being unlocked by non-con means is likely my favorite and feels more realistic than manifesting corruption out of thin air. The second half of the above paragraph works best with the deep seated desire being present. Add in the guider weaving their own kinks into the kinks they are "unlocking" in the target of corruption as a form of manipulation and that's probably one of my dream games.

Some games that come to mind:
- SuccumBrewery - IO being the corrupter and MC being the target of corruption. It's still in development and already seems to be escalating a bit fast for me but it's got hypnosis, deep seated desires and some well done escalation.
- Karin's Prison - A corruption game with no flat corruption stat. Instead specific kinks are unlocked by engaging in those activities. It's a bit rough since it's all procedural and sometimes escalation can be spikey, but overall good. Also legit hard.
- Third Crisis - This is overall not a corruption game iirc as much as a game with a corruption stat tacked on, there's just a few scenes of a small subplot that come to mind. That being the "landlord" blackmail bit. There's a few scenes about asking for more and more and MC realizing they enjoy the attention, even if they dislike the source.

(Just to clarify, all of the above is for game design and I don't condone non-con in real life. Just realized I may have dove a bit deep into explaining some of this stuff and wanna clearly state that it is pure fantasy. Not posted a porn related manifesto before.)

 

[DuniX]

A corruption stat that goes up every time someone touches the target of corruption's butt isn't a corruption game anymore than Magic the Gathering is a dice game if we use a d20 to represent life totals. I think this number should still exist in plenty of games and it can even be called corruption as a stat, but I don't think it alone qualifies a game as a corruption game. It's just a way to gate content behind grinding, not a genre. To be in the genre itself I think the corruption needs to be fairly core to the game design, or at least the design of the character, not just a number tacked on.

I still think that Corruption boils down to a Stat because of what Corruption is meant to represent.
Corruption has always had a "Dark" connotation and that is it represents a Transformation from the State of "Innocence" into a State of "Sin" and "Depravity". That is what I think that "Number" represents, the percentage until that transformation is complete. Of course it would be best if there would be more Depth with a more complex Psychological Simulation, although if you are messing with the mind and inhibitions too much that could fall into the domain of "trauma" which is not as safe of a topic as a simple number goes up.

There has always been a debate on what is "Corruption" and what is just a healthy "Relationship" that you are developing sexually with your partner. Your Consensual Guidance and Self Exploration falls more towards that side.
So there can certainly be overlap between them just like there can be overlap with Slavery which is based on Obedience and Magical Mind Control and whatnot. Tags don't need to be exclusive with each other.

Although Corruption is still "Dark" so you would be pushing boundaries on what you are exploring and what is a "fall to depravity".

 

[khumak]

Personally I think corruption works best when you combine something you're trying to get her to do that she doesn't like or just normally refuses to do with something she does like. For instance you bring up the idea of a threesome with another girl to your girlfriend and she gets pissed at you for bringing up the idea of being with another girl and also tells you she's not into girls. She does like massages though. Who doesn't?

So you buy her a membership at a spa and prepay for a bunch of massages for her. You bribe one of the girls to slowly push towards a happy ending and also bribe the receptionist to always schedule her with that girl. Her massages start off normal but as time goes on the massage girl eases her closer to happy ending territory until eventually she knows (and looks forward to the fact) that she's getting her pussy licked by the massage girl every time she goes. You have now removed the "I'm not into girl's" objection to that threesome you want. Now you have to find a way to get her to let you in on the fun.

Maybe you pretend to be oblivious to the happy endings at the massage parlor and eventually book the two of you for a couples massage from that same girl. She knows what that usually means for her, but she never told you about it. If she objects she has to admit to cheating on you with the massage girl. If she doesn't, she knows 1 or both of you might be getting happy endings. Maybe you arrange to have her get a happy ending, but not you the first time. So now she thinks maybe she's in the clear. But next time you both get a happy ending...

That might be all it takes or you might need some other scenario after that to seal the deal.

 

[Diconica]

I still think that Corruption boils down to a Stat because of what Corruption is meant to represent.
Corruption has always had a "Dark" connotation and that is it represents a Transformation from the State of "Innocence" into a State of "Sin" and "Depravity". That is what I think that "Number" represents, the percentage until that transformation is complete. Of course it would be best if there would be more Depth with a more complex Psychological Simulation, although if you are messing with the mind and inhibitions too much that could fall into the domain of "trauma" which is not as safe of a topic as a simple number goes up.

There has always been a debate on what is "Corruption" and what is just a healthy "Relationship" that you are developing sexually with your partner. Your Consensual Guidance and Self Exploration falls more towards that side.
So there can certainly be overlap between them just like there can be overlap with Slavery which is based on Obedience and Magical Mind Control and whatnot. Tags don't need to be exclusive with each other.

Although Corruption is still "Dark" so you would be pushing boundaries on what you are exploring and what is a "fall to depravity".

I agree with you.
Most people do tend to think of corruption as a change from some form of innocence to depravity, sin, and darkness.
I also agree it could be represented far better with a more complex system.

Another aspect of looking at it may be easier to work with.
Consider it a level of how comfortable or accepting a person is with various acts.
Each type of act unto itself having its own level of comfort.
It might even best be viewed similar to that of a skill tree which has experience in each of the skills and comfort levels.
As a person becomes accustom to something they generally become more accepting. Same with when a person becomes more skilled at something it feels more natural and easier for them to do.
The reverse can also be said. The more someone feels comfortable doing something the more the easier it is for them to learn. A person who usually doesn't like something tends to struggle learning it because they don't really want to.

Something like exhibition verse any sexual act is quite different. Stripping in front of people is far different than have sex with another person. You can find plenty of women who will show their tits at Mardi Gras but a lot fewer will have sex with a stranger.
But even in exhibition there are different levels doing a wet T comp or going to the beach in a skimpy bikini vs doing a strip show or even further public sex are all different. In truth the public sex is where I got the skill tree idea from because it feels more like were to branches of a skill tree connect. starting a 3rd branch.

Spoiler: Rough diagram of skill like tree, incomplete

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Granted this is based on a more natural progression without stuff like drug influence and being forced to do various acts.
Cultural and religious values and norms can also influence stuff. Example: Some believe they can save their virginity by only having anal sex before marriage.
This chart doesn't really cover aspects like what actually gets them to try or gain an interest in trying something.
Influences that affect a persons choice to try something or not aren't also listed.
Things like how horny, chemical(drunk, drugs), pear pressure, cultural and family ... other external influences, ads, acidental exposure(walking in on something, seeing a web page, movie...), intentional exposure someone purposely exposing them to whatever.