Let's push forward, your opinion matters.

[polywog]

8 out of 10 games are either RenPy VN's or GameMaker RPG's.

For every renpy vn that exists there are 1000 flash games.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Man looks like i'm walking on eggs here. I do not demand from developers that they follow what their patreons say, all i did was questioning their commitment! You can mangle my words as much as you like, but when i decide to move my game up on Patreon or even Steam i would feel obligated to deliver the best i can, especially in a genre like this where you can get the same thing a couple of hours or days later for free through other channels. We may see Patreon or Steam differently but that's how i would approach it or feel about it.

I see it as supporting someone on Patreon is a means to make them improve and become better at what they do, and because you like what they are doing already (regardless of how you got to know about the creator). Where when someone push something to a store front, such as steam, or other means, then they become more accountable to deliver on what they do/promise.

Also, just because we can get things hours/days later for "free". The use of "free" is dubious. As piracy is little more than theft when it come to it. It's not like you would want to share your steam account and its library with everyone out there right? I'm not ragging at anyone sharing though, because piracy and sharing doesn't equal lost sales.

 

[Ataios]

A few thoughts on good vs evil in porn games:

Generally, I favor the dark side in porn games, although I prefer to play heroes in regular games and I wouldn't want most of the fetishes I enjoy in porn games in real life. While there are a lot of evil porn game protagonists, none of them is quite to my liking. The reason for this is mainly because so many of them are not presented as capable powerful villains, but rather as losers who just had the luck of finding some mind control spell or drug in the pavement of their parents' house. These characters are often presented as average people rather than powerful villains, which doesn't make playing them really interesting.

The prime example of evil protagonists done wrong IMO are mom-son incest games, where the protagonist most often appears as a typical teenage virgin boy. A ruthless business man/woman, who is rich enough to have any other woman but seeks the ultimate taboo, a mad plastic surgeon who tries to shape his mom into the perfect sex doll, a dominatrix eager to urge people into breaking all their taboos, or a cruel mercenary seeking revenge on his neglecting mother by sexually exploiting her are all viable option for villain protagonists, but all we get are small, thin teenage boys.

Also in games, where the protagonist is evil, I see no reason why developers almost painfully try to create antagonists who are even more evil. Certainly the worst example is Big Brother, it's essentially Ramsey Bolton vs Joffrey Baratheon. While evil vs evil is certainly plausible within most settings, I think, it might be refreshing to see an antagonist who is genuinely good, so the protagonist is truely evil, not just the lesser evil. E.g. if you play the dominatrix trying to introduce a prudish housewife into BDSM and slowly turn her into her sex slave, the husband and children of the woman might be genuinely good people trying to protect their wife or mother. When you play a succubus, your enemies might be angels genuinely trying to protect mortals from your influence.

 

[Emoon]

I see it as supporting someone on Patreon is a means to make them improve and become better at what they do, and because you like what they are doing already (regardless of how you got to know about the creator).

So do I but what do you expect from me to do if someone hasn't showed up in months? Still drop my money in, fingers crossed he will be back any day now? I mean i'm not someone who drops out instantly if someone keeps silent for a long time but at some point i do need to reevaluate if it is still worth.

Also, just because we can get things hours/days later for "free". The use of "free" is dubious. As piracy is little more than theft when it come to it. It's not like you would want to share your steam account and its library with everyone out there right? I'm not ragging at anyone sharing though, because piracy and sharing doesn't equal lost sales.

Let's not argue about piracy since there is a multitude of reasons why someone might do it or not, i've done it as a child because i didn't have the money, now i have the money and don't do it anymore.
What i meant was that I (just talking about myself) would feel obligated to deliver the best to someone who is willing to support me EVEN THO he could easily download it somewhere else. It's a personal standard that i would set for myself.

A few thoughts on good vs evil in porn games...

I wholeheartedly agree with you on this! I don't mind playing bad guys either but this particular kind you mentioned is just flat out boring to play.

 

[Zippity]

I wonder back in the day (way back in the day), Patreon's of the arts.. If they would demand of painters, composers, sculptors, inventors (list goes on), if the backers was standing over them demanding they would always complete a painting once started a new canvas or god forbid that stone is expensive so if your sculpture fail, off with your head!.

No one "taking" money from anyone. It's backers choice if they want to support a creator or not. It's not a retail store nor a subscribing service. Those that want to step it up to another level does try to branch outside of Patreon. Such as "House Party" that found it's way to steam and similar. Then we can start talk about hold creators more accountable for not deliver, but as long as they are on Patreon, and know what Patreon is about, it get to silly imho.

A creator can start with his hobby project, maybe end up with the start of something real good and gain traction. His/her patreon might start blow up and once it reach a certain stage, you will always have people start stab at "oh, they make so much money" and then start lay down demands etc. Just because a creator end up earn X on Patreon doesn't mean they become professional, or ready to give up whatever commitment's real life have and go 24/7 game developer. I see some have posted on their pages that if they reach X they will give up their rl job, school whatever and focus full time. Now that is bollocks, unless you stuck flipping burgers at McDonalds or similar (This is NOT a stab at people working there or similar places).

Everyone if they could, would try earn a buck on their hobby if that was a possibility. Many years ago, before internet was a thing. I liked to write stories, for my own benefit. Not because I hoped to become some sort of author or publish any of it. It was a form of escape into fantasy I guess. Thing is, over time I ended up with many incomplete stories, lost interest, train of thoughts and so on. I would expect much of the same can/will happen to creators of these adult games as well. So if some get abandoned half way through, re-worked, etc. I don't really care. It's not like I did commission a certain work from them.

I understand what you are trying to say in that first paragraph, but it sounds like a huge exaggeration of what really happens... And yes, back in the day, some people who hired artists and such, did tend to be demanding... Especially folks in royalty... If they didn't like something being done during the process or after the process was done, some did make demands of the creator to alter it or maybe even start over... And rightly so, because they were paying for it... And technically, as to your "off with your head" analogy, I would not doubt that some kings, queens, princes, etc. may have had artists killed if they didn't get what they wanted... People were killed for lesser reasons back in the day...

As to sites like Patreon and other donation based websites... Donations these days, on those particular sites, are Monthly Subscription based Donations, only... And even if a developer was only making money from one-time donations via some other method, they are still receiving money for doing their work... So it's not unreasonable to hear outcry from the donating public in those cases, when certain circumstances are occurring... Such as extreme lengths of time between content releases (especially when the amount of content may be very low each time), or when a developer does not temporarily turn off the monthly subscriptions (which sites like Patreon offer to the developers as an option) received from paying fans while on vacation/sabbatical and/or not working on the project... As to the general public giving opinions and requests, regardless if the developer is making money from donations/purchases or not, that is the price any creator has to deal with when they offer up their project for public consumption... It's a nature of the beast, that in most cases is unavoidable... But the developer can select what to listen to and what to ignore... Pointing and shaking a fist at those voicing their opinions and desires, is both fruitless and immature...

In the end, the projects are still the developers puppy, to nurture as they see fit, as long as their forthright with their fans... But they need to remember that if they are taking donations, that is almost the same as renting out or selling their products... Regardless if it's a hobby, a development studio, a business venture, or anything else... Because they are taking in money to support and/or fund their projects, even if it's not profitable to do so... And as far as the public being picky, or voicing requests, or giving bad/good opinions of projects... There is nothing wrong with them doing so... Developers should be willing to listen to all sides, even if they don't agree, but that doesn't mean they have to implement anything they don't want to... It's still their project/s... If they don't want to hear varying opinions and requests on a project they are working on and/or finished, then they shouldn't make the project publicly accessible in the first place... Regardless of it's current version and/or status...

Zip

 

[Infidelisoft]

• Would you like to have deeper stories with sex-scenes who rather act as a side-activity instead of being the main focus

No, absolutely not. That's not an adult game but something with adult elements.

• Would you like to see more common gameplay approaches like having First Person or Third Person games, something in the line of Mass Effect or The Witcher?

No, everything should be playable with one hand and the other hand should be doing something else. If it's not the theme is either not to the player's taste or the game has failed as an adult project.

• Do you prefer a god or a bad protagonist as the main character?

Blank slate for self-insert purposes.

• How about Character Customization? Going a bit further how about NPC Customization, settings presets (small boobs, big boobs, thick, thin etc.) for the characters you will meet throughout the game (in a non-spoiler way ofc).

No, the game should always decide what the characters look and act like. Don't make me design everything for you.

• Since most developers use DAZ for their characters, how important are custom DAZ characters for you? Do you dislike seeing the same character in multiple games or do you don't mind?

I rarely play 3D titles so no opinion.

• Would you like to see larger game areas and have the possibility of exploring these areas to your hearts content?

No, I don't want this in any game.

• How important is a good looking environment for you?

Text-only is fine for the most part, although I prefer a 2D picture once in a while.

• What's your favorite game of all time? (You can name a lewd game or a regular game)

I rarely play regular games and have too many interests to name a single adult one. Different ones for different fetishes, but almost always with extreme content, linear, 2D, and Japanese.

• Which game had the best gameplay in your opinion? (You can name a lewd game or a regular game)

For regular games probably older stuff above newer stuff, but again I almost never game anymore. Lewd games should not have gameplay which distracts from the lewd stuff.

• Which game was the most impressive from a purely visual standpoint? (Let's stick to regular games here please)

There's some pretty slick 2D animations out there. Although I don't mind it too much a 3D title would never impress me visually.

• What is the answer to the question of life, the universe, and everything?

Don't try to fix what isn't broken.

 

[redknight00]

• Would you like to have deeper stories with sex-scenes who rather act as a side-activity instead of being the main focus?
I'm a greedy bastard and I want everything, deep, complex with well-written characters and sex all around.

• Would you like to see more common gameplay approaches like having First Person or Third Person games, something in the line of Mass Effect or The Witcher?
No, that's too complex gameplay for an indie industry, I prefer simpler gameplay, preferably that doesn't require much concentration. That said I do approve of gameplay unrelated to sex, in fact, I prefer that it doesn't have any lewd content tied to the gameplay at all.

• Do you prefer a god or a bad protagonist as the main character?
I prefer characters that are not cardboard cutouts whose only emotion is horny.

• How about Character Customization? Going a bit further how about NPC Customization, settings presets (small boobs, big boobs, thick, thin etc.) for the characters you will meet throughout the game (in a non-spoiler way ofc).
110% waste of resources in my opinion.

• Since most developers use DAZ for their characters, how important are custom DAZ characters for you? Do you dislike seeing the same character in multiple games or do you don't mind?
Daz is a well that has been poisoned to me, but the very, very, very few Daz games I give a chance I put a lot of importance to custom characters, composition, lighting, etc.

• Would you like to see larger game areas and have the possibility of exploring these areas to your hearts content?
That's a choice of the developer either way works, as long as well done.

• How important is a good looking environment for you?
It's pleasing and more comfortable to be looking at nice environments and/or UI, visuals are not necessary. I can enjoy text games just fine, but if the dev decided to be visual, they better make it good visuals.

• What is the answer to the question of life, the universe, and everything?
42.

 

[Glad]

Your questions are too specific, and so irrelevant. The big problem with porn games is that very few are actually games. Fewer are any good(as games). And some are lazy as fuck. Here's one example of a horribly lazy game, here's another. These are especially bad, both gameplay and asset-wise. In case of Chloe18 Camgirl the renders are fine, the lazy part is that every costume-content uses same poses. There are plenty of examples of good assets wrapped in shit gameplay, so the questions about detailed preferences and genres are hysterical, because very few can nail the basics.

Let's go over the some of the questions:

Would you like to have deeper stories with sex-scenes who rather act as a side-activity instead of being the main focus?

Two entirely different things. I would like to have both done well.

Would you like to see more common gameplay approaches like having First Person or Third Person games, something in the line of Mass Effect or The Witcher?

This is really funny as I explained above.

Since most developers use DAZ for their characters, how important are custom DAZ characters for you? Do you dislike seeing the same character in multiple games or do you don't mind?

I would love for DAZ to evolve or disappear completely. I hate uncanny valley ugly shit that comes out as a result of "realism".

 

[Emoon]

The big problem with porn games is that very few are actually games. Fewer are any good(as games). And some are lazy as fuck.

First off, i specifically said multiple times that i don't like to drop names. This post is not about who are the bad examples but more about what we can do better. You could've known that if you would have read the whole post and not just the questions, since i speak about the general laziness quite extensively.

Your questions are too specific, and so irrelevant.

They might be for you irrelevant but not for me since most question serve a purpose.
For instance the question about FP & TP and something in the line of ME or The Wichter.
The reason why i brought up ME and the Witcher is not because they are great FP/TP games (in fact both are TP games), it's because i wanted to provoke answers about gameplay who circled around those two games. Since and here is why i choose those two over something like CoD or Skyrim.
They both have romance options implemented and a rather serious plot with grown-up main & side characters. Yet those side-characters aren't just mindless fuckdolls or weak virgins, no, they all follow a personal narrative.
Both games resonate strong with people but both are also vastly different in their gameplay setting. That's also why it came right after the deeper stories question.

I would love for DAZ to evolve or disappear completely. I hate uncanny valley ugly shit that comes out as a result of "realism".

It's not going to disappear that's for sure but i can fully agree with you on the rest.

 

[Glad]

First off, i specifically said multiple times that i don't like to drop names. This post is not about who are the bad examples but more about what we can do better.

These are points of reference. To learn from mistakes and solidify your own vision. An exercise to seek out what can be improved, what works, what doesn't, why... Learning on mistakes of others. I have to admit that Chloe camgirl is a bad example because it simply lazy. The other one is more interesting, because its failures are more gamedesign-specific.

They might be for you irrelevant but not for me since most question serve a purpose.

Without a point reference they are empty. You might have something specific in mind, but I don't know what that is. 3rd person can be done in many different ways for many different genres.
Games like ME and Witcher are also on an entirely different levels and use sex in a different way. And their attraction lies elsewhere.
Good or bad character is very dependent on setting and an actual character.
What does good looking environment even mean? Polygons? Detailed drawn 2d? More simplistic stylized 2d or 3d?

They both have romance options implemented and a rather serious plot with grown-up main & side characters. Yet those side-characters aren't just mindless fuckdolls or weak virgins, no, they all follow a personal narrative.

That's writing... And that's a topic of its own. And combining writing and gameplay is a separate one...
On that note, a lot of story-driven porn games are bad with character "hooks". Making player care about the character and leaving an impression, and then giving players choices connected to characters they don't care about.

Most problems in porn games have been inherited from VNs. Art(porn) over gameplay and such. Compounded by pandering to the fans and also general lack of constructive criticism.

 

[obsessionau]

3D Games like Mass Effect and The Witcher have budgets in the excess of 80million dollars with teams of developers.
I would take a guess and say EVERY Patreon VN developer who has worked with a budget similar to that has delivered more than a RenPy novel.

In many cases I enjoy reading text based short stories a lot more than putting myself through some of the VN's on here. So I do not believe "evolution" has anything to do with an interesting game, it simply boils down to what experience we are after.

When I look for VN's, I pretty much exclusively look for RenPy partly because I can't stand developers trying to "innovate" and having themselves bogged down on features that don't add anything to the overall experience. Many developers struggle to get the written element right let alone the visuals and GUI. Many people making these games are not seasoned authors, graphic artists or programmers.

At the end of the day RenPy is a tool for creating novels with a visual element. So if you ask for an inventory system and the developer says to you "Don't play it if you don't like it". Take it with a grain of salt and look past the poor communication skills. They might simply be suggesting that they are not making that type of game and don't think it warrants a inventory screen.

 

[Glad]

When I look for VN's, I pretty much exclusively look for RenPy partly because I can't stand developers trying to "innovate" and having themselves bogged down on features that don't add anything to the overall experience. Many developers struggle to get the written element right let alone the visuals and GUI. Many people making these games are not seasoned authors, graphic artists or programmers.

The problem with renpy is... well, you described in your next paragraph. It's a VN engine. The best it can do comfortably(you dig into python, but at that point might as well go for a proper game engine) is, what I call, VN+. And also Daz3D. VNs are not enough. And they also have issues like porn-writing.
Tech approach is not always enough, though. There is a game called Slave Matrix. The installed version is 50 megs, 35 of which are saves and two music tracks. It has an amazing monster-girl generating system, passable touching game to train them and... nothing else. Nothing good anyway. It pisses me of same way that "good assets wrapped in a shit gameplay" games do.

 

[JG07]

• Would you like to have deeper stories with sex-scenes who rather act as a side-activity instead of being the main focus?

​

Yes. Some of the best experiences I have had with these games treat sex-scenes as quest rewards for traditional rpg type stuff. It's more satisfying if you have to work a little bit (but not too much) and form an emotional connection with the characters first. For that, you need a deep story with good writing. I know RPGM is not a popular engine, but I think some of them are pretty good. It's the sort of thing that helps recapture the some of the excitement I had playing old rpg's when I was young.​

​

• Would you like to see more common gameplay approaches like having First Person or Third Person games, something in the line of Mass Effect or The Witcher?

​

I'm not really in this for actiony games (like Mass Effect and The Witcher), I just don't think there's any way they can compare to "real" games from a certain standpoint. However, the RPG type elements in those games are perfect for this sort of thing. In my opinion, adult games are much better served by visual novels, RPG's, and the strategy genre. I imagine the most successful games will find a way to combine all three.​

• Do you prefer a good or a bad protagonist as the main character?

​

I prefer good characters, but if the bad character is well-written, that's cool too. For instance, if the bad guy actually seems to have an interesting or compelling motive, that's something I can get with. What I dislike is when the character is just an irredeemable shithead for seemingly no reason other than to maximize his hedomism, that's just lazy.​

• How about Character Customization? Going a bit further how about NPC Customization, settings presets (small boobs, big boobs, thick, thin etc.) for the characters you will meet throughout the game (in a non-spoiler way ofc).

​

Character customization is cool, I prefer male protagonists, and name customization at least for NPC's. When it comes to NPC's, most people seem to like the boob slider, but I like big butts. If there is a pubic hair option, I choose yes.​

• Since most developers use DAZ for their characters, how important are custom DAZ characters for you? Do you dislike seeing the same character in multiple games or do you don't mind?

Custom models are not important as long as the models they are using actually look good. I just think of it the same way I think of seeing real porn stars in these games (My preferred tag is "real porn" but they are terribly under-served). Interestingly enough, I find it distracting when a model has the exact same hairstyle I have seen in other games, lol. Like the Mom's hair from "Dreams of Desire." My guess is hair is difficult to animate.​

• What's your favorite game of all time? (You can name a lewd game or a regular game)

I would probably give a different answer at a different time, but right now the only thing that comes to mind is Final Fantasy Tactics. It hits all the right notes for me, a deep story with interesting characters, awesome tactical-rpg/strategy-based gameplay. It's one of those games I can usually come back and play over and over again, after not playing for years. If someone finds a way to make a game like that along with adult elements, I'm in.​

I'd also like to take this opportunity to discuss some grievances I have with these games, in no particular order. I dislike those CG's with floating, disembodied and/or transparent ghost dicks just pounding away. It just looks funny, nearly unfappable. If you don't want to draw the entire dude, just make it a POV shot or something. I also think there is a distressing lack of female models with any pubic hair. I'm not talking massive, unrestrained bush (not that there is anything wrong with that) I just think a little variety is nice. Without it, most models tend to have a samey look down there, and that's kind of boring. I also wish that the "real porn" tag was served better, but I understand there are probably some extra difficulties in monetizing that versus custom artwork. Still, it would be nice if more adult games trended in that direction if it makes sense, because no matter how good the artwork, it just doesn't compare to the real thing.

 

[Flecc]

As a player i don't really have a preference to which engine is used as long as the characters and the story are engaging.If it meets story and character i will play it.
I think the big fall some devs have is allowing their patreons /backers far to much input that skews the game they are trying to make.Have always been an advocate of it is your game don't let others change it ,Their are many ways of rewarding patreons /backers without letting them loose on the core of the game.I think you have quite a few lazy devs that think throw a bit of incest and ntr in ill make money despite the game being total dross that isn't going to cut it i have had the pleasure of playing some well thought out games good story good characters and have backed a few Now going to give an unashamed shout out To Philly ASLpro and Belle to name a few.These guys and girls are breaking the norm to bring something fresh to the table

As for AAA favourite has to be the Mass Effect trilogy still go back to it now it is timeless ,shame they tarnished the rep with Andromeda

 

[Sphere42]

As a player my main fundamental desire is a dedicated core sex/body engine, because I'm a bit of a stickler for consistency in gameplay and art. If a game allows me to press that "cum" button a thousand times without resting I'd like the characters to actually get covered in leaking cum, or some belly bulging if it's that type of game instead of just looping one animation over and over. If the scene starts with a blowjob and the girl deepthroats until her face is a mess, her makeup all washed out with the stereotypical "mascara tears" I expect to see some residue of that during the following vaginal sex. Many games don't even show any fluids when you switch to anal right after cumming inside with the girl screaming how wet she is.

Of course the main cause of such issues with 2D graphics is the massive workload of drawing/animating all those additional modifiers but surely 3D posers could at least do the basics with some kind of template system.

 

[DreamBig Games]

So, I am a game dev, my game Cyndy was published on Steam and it will be available on Nuta_ku in a couple of days too. That game was made by me, solo, and took around 1 year to finish ( first 6 months were part-time, the other 6 months full time). I have used Daz and UE4, this is not a VN, so RenPy, while I could have used it, it would have required a lot of extra work to overcome some of its limitations, and by using UE4 I would be able to get familiar with it, and build experience that I will be able to use for a more complicated/ next level project.
So, that was about me, now about your questions:
From a dev point regarding stagnating, and most of the games being RenPy or RPGMaker based: That is true, but the reason why it is that it's because both are entry level game engines ( from a coding point of view), easy to learn fast and suitable for simple NV games. Why people would rather make a VN game compared with a Simulation/ Sand Box? Well, because most of the gamers on sites like this want VN. VN's are simple games, based on a story that is already written, and if the writer is good, then the VN will be a success, regardless of bad renders or art.
When it comes to sandboxes, it's a bit more complicated, the gamer needs to set his own objectives, and work towards them, and here I'm referring o the ALL EVIL GRIND.
Reading a story that has hot visuals is more appealing to a lot of people, compared with a sandbox/ grind, even if it has the exact same visuals.
2D or 3D games: Well, I originally wanted to make my game a full 3D game, with models and animations, but getting good looking models and animations in UE4 and Unity is a bit harder than youtube tutorials make it look. And I'll give a few examples:
1. Importing a Daz3d model in UE4 is easy, importing same model with a hair and genital mesh, is very hard, it requires a third tool ( I was able to use Maya, student version and get it done, but if I was to release a game like that, I would be in the wrong, as the student version would not allow you legally to do that), and third-party tools are expensive.
2. Materials. In UE4 and Unity, materials is a whole new department/ skill set. So, a solo dev would need to learn/ know how to: code, design, materials, lighting, environment design, audio, animations. While it's not impossible, it's a lot of time spent learning new stuff, instead of creating content. Most of us would like to create content, that is why we are making games, and not try to get a job programming utility programs or phone apps.
3. Custom models ( not Daz3d) used in games: While there are a couple of free assets that you have listed, please take in account that some of them use as base Daz models. This is not legal.
Custom models paid for, not Daz related: There are websites that sell really good looking 3D models, but they are expensive, some of them around 700$ for a naked model, rigged but no animations. Well, to that you need to add clothing and other accessories, that model will easily cost you over 1k$ for the Early Acces version of your game. So custom models, for me at least = loads of money.

From a players perspective: I would like non-linear, NON-VN 3D games, with real-life models and graphics. Simulators, sandboxes with a lot of adult content would be my dream games. But I know that is not feasible.
If you would like to find out more about my trials with getting Daz3d models in UE, jump on my Discord:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Zippity]

So, I am a game dev, my game Cyndy was published on Steam and it will be available on Nutaku in a couple of days too. That game was made by me, solo, and took around 1 year to finish ( first 6 months were part-time, the other 6 months full time). I have used Daz and UE4, this is not a VN, so RenPy, while I could have used it, it would have required a lot of extra work to overcome some of its limitations, and by using UE4 I would be able to get familiar with it, and build experience that I will be able to use for a more complicated/ next level project.
So, that was about me, now about your questions:
From a dev point regarding stagnating, and most of the games being RenPy or RPGMaker based: That is true, but the reason why it is that it's because both are entry level game engines ( from a coding point of view), easy to learn fast and suitable for simple NV games. Why people would rather make a VN game compared with a Simulation/ Sand Box? Well, because most of the gamers on sites like this want VN. VN's are simple games, based on a story that is already written, and if the writer is good, then the VN will be a success, regardless of bad renders or art.
When it comes to sandboxes, it's a bit more complicated, the gamer needs to set his own objectives, and work towards them, and here I'm referring o the ALL EVIL GRIND.
Reading a story that has hot visuals is more appealing to a lot of people, compared with a sandbox/ grind, even if it has the exact same visuals.
2D or 3D games: Well, I originally wanted to make my game a full 3D game, with models and animations, but getting good looking models and animations in UE4 and Unity is a bit harder than youtube tutorials make it look. And I'll give a few examples:
1. Importing a Daz3d model in UE4 is easy, importing same model with a hair and genital mesh, is very hard, it requires a third tool ( I was able to use Maya, student version and get it done, but if I was to release a game like that, I would be in the wrong, as the student version would not allow you legally to do that), and third-party tools are expensive.
2. Materials. In UE4 and Unity, materials is a whole new department/ skill set. So, a solo dev would need to learn/ know how to: code, design, materials, lighting, environment design, audio, animations. While it's not impossible, it's a lot of time spent learning new stuff, instead of creating content. Most of us would like to create content, that is why we are making games, and not try to get a job programming utility programs or phone apps.
3. Custom models ( not Daz3d) used in games: While there are a couple of free assets that you have listed, please take in account that some of them use as base Daz models. This is not legal.
Custom models paid for, not Daz related: There are websites that sell really good looking 3D models, but they are expensive, some of them around 700$ for a naked model, rigged but no animations. Well, to that you need to add clothing and other accessories, that model will easily cost you over 1k$ for the Early Acces version of your game. So custom models, for me at least = loads of money.

From a players perspective: I would like non-linear, NON-VN 3D games, with real-life models and graphics. Simulators, sandboxes with a lot of adult content would be my dream games. But I know that is not feasible.
If you would like to find out more about my trials with getting Daz3d models in UE, jump on my Discord:

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That is what's great about this industry... Even though it is way over saturated most of the time, the up side to that is the available options... There is always a plethora of varying styles of Visual Novels and Games to cater to the various players and readers... If you want 3D porn, you go it, if you want an Erotic Visual Novel, you got it, if you want a grinder, there are plenty of those, and the list goes on... Sure, because the market is mostly made up of amateur developers, many of which are first time developers, the mix of quality is all over the map... But at least there is something out there for everybody (within reason)…

As you mentioned, with utilities like Unreal Engine and Unity, because they are more involved with their own set of technical restrictions, you will not see as many being developed with those engines... Where as easier (but still complex in their own ways) engines like Ren'py, RPGM, and the Text Based Engines are a bit less strenuous to jump into the industry with... The limitations with 3D modelling engines is typically a mix between utility complexity/limitations mixed with the overwhelming cost when being used for commercial purposes... And if you accept money for your projects, they are legally considered commercial, even when it's just donations through sites like Patreon and others... Whether your paying royalty fees over time, or paying for larger royalty-free up front charges to get your base models, poses, backdrops, etc... The upfront costs can be overwhelming... I totally agree...

Zip

 

[DreamBig Games]

As you mentioned, with utilities like Unreal Engine and Unity, because they are more involved with their own set of technical restrictions, you will not see as many being developed with those engines...

To be fair, Unreal and Unity don't have a lot of limitations... You can make almost anything with them. I think people have a few misconceptions regarding Unity and UE. So, for example, Unity used to cost upfront, now, it doesn't. Same with Ue4. They both have a royalties system, but that means, you only pay if you earn, and you pay a percentage of what you make ( for UE it's 5% if you make more than 5000 $/ 3 month period. I'm not sure what Unity charges). And once you get your head around the basis of coding in them, you can add extra stuff to your game, as you learn. With RenPy, you are kind of stuck in that sense. Again, as an example, I have toyed around with creating a bonus scene for Cyndy, if you would have finished the game, you would have had access to a 3D photo shoot ( 3D model, and a couple of animations, with the possibility to save the photos on your PC), but I had to pull it out of the game, as it would have required paying for the the Game Licence from Daz ( character, clothing, morph package, hair, some accessories, in total over 500$, and I didn't think it would be something that it would have been worth doing.

 

[caLTD]

When you after the Realistic 3d Game, there where lots of requirements.

Let say we are going to develop 3d version of summer time saga.

We need at least 50 buildings. Most most of them has indoors let say we need 100 indoor scenes. (probably more).

This or that way you could pack together.

HOWEVER

Running all of them in a game with realistic lights and materials with reasonable frame rates for not so expensive hardware different ball of tame. No sane developer can do this. However There is a lots of assets to take care this.

However I believe GTA4 grade (except from large map) doable by single dedicated, well funded developer.

 

[DreamBig Games]

When you after the Realistic 3d Game, there where lots of requirements.

Let say we are going to develop 3d version of summer time saga.

We need at least 50 buildings. Most most of them has indoors let say we need 100 indoor scenes. (probably more).

This or that way you could pack together.

HOWEVER

Running all of them in a game with realistic lights and materials with reasonable frame rates for not so expensive hardware different ball of tame. No sane developer can do this. However There is a lots of assets to take care this.

However I believe GTA4 grade (except from large map) doable by single dedicated, well funded developer.

Running something like that in UE4 is doable..., and if you optimize it can run on any 10 series NVidia GPU, maybe even on a 970 or 980. It would make use of assets streaming and multiple levels, from a coding stand, the player would not even notice that he is actually changing maps/ level when entering a house for example... And to be fair, anyone expecting to run any modern/ decent 3D game on a 10 years laptop.... don't blame the dev for not being able to do it
Buildings are not a problem, the problem is the human models and animations.. Having cheap models, would result in something like House Party, or even worse, that game with a guy and his mom, hideous models ( I have forgotten the name of the game ), and shity animations will break the game.