VN Ren'Py Light of My Life [Ch. 8 v0.8.1] [Naughty Road]

[naughtyroad]

Right, some rambling responses to some of the above. Apologies in advance for the bits I go off the rails a bit.

That's honestly probably one of the bigger reasons. The last three releases have seen the development time for each grow significantly, to the point for chapter 7 it was exceptionally long (more than 18 months). I would imagine it's hard to maintain momentum and fan base enthusiasm under those conditions.

And there is a good reason for that too, and it is mainly because in the last three releases, measured in content, dwarf the preceding chapters.

Chapters 1-4 contained ~3,800 images.
Chapter 5 adds ~3,100, bringing it to ~6,900 (doubling everything that came before)
Chapter 6 adds ~5,700, bringing it to ~12,600 (almost doubling everything that came before again)
Chapter 7 adds ~10,100, bringing it to ~23,700 (almost doubling everything that came before again)

The main reason for this explosion is that people started to have actual sex. Whereas chapters 1-3 still teased how the MC was blue-balled, and from chapter 3 on some smaller sex scenes were added, once we got into some serious business with the main love interests, as well as having to up the stakes with the existing ones, the effort just exponentially increased.

And while seems reasonable that development time will have some impact in momentum and fan base enthusiasm, I propose that the alternative of not having sex with love interests, or have them reduced in scope to about half a dozen stills also doesn't help to create fans.

(...)
This is one of the best games on this platform and Updates have been very sizable and high quality, but I think not cutting it into smaller chunks has really been detrimantal for you. (...)

You make a few good points, but I want to zoom in on this one and the next one in particular.

One of the things that sets Light of my Life apart is that it releases large chunks of content at a time, that can be enjoyed as a whole, and have an arch that can be appreciated in a way that you can't if it's released piecemeal in little chunks and parts,. Many of which would hardly have any sexual content, mind.
That's a release model that works for a fun fuck-fest, and there's plenty of those that are an absolute blast. It's just not what Light of my Life is.

I'm the first one to admit that maybe I'm a bit of an stubborn idiot in this regard, and I have a poor business sense. Or rather, that I don't really put much value in the business side of the process.
But I'm also not a great believer in giving people what they want in general, because frankly l don't think people have the faintest idea what they want, and what they say they want will turn out to be something they don't much care for if they actually get it.
Instead, I try giving people what I feel is as good a thing as I can make it, and I hope that people will say "I really wanted that" once they get it.

So the short of it is that either Light of my Life is released in large chunks that deliver an experience that I think is good, or not at all. Because I'm convinced that if I just give them a month of work (or two, or three) at a time, it may be what they say they want, but it'll turn them off of the whole thing pretty fast.

(...) Why would anyone pay a monthly fee for Patreon, when they could just wait for the update to come out and then subscribe?

I hope the answer is "because they want to see this game being made", and for a small fraction of players (♥), it actually is. It's not really a transactional thing, but an abstract notion about supporting the development so one day, in a pretty intangible process, there'll be more game, for everyone, even those that didn't pay.
Sure enough, that is a hard concept to convey, and conversion rates from players to supporters are absolutely as atrocious as you'd expect at the best of times. But it's really the only way to have something like this be made, the alternative being the old-school model of small studios searching for investors who are in it for the ROI.

 

[TigerWolfe]

Right, some rambling responses to some of the above. Apologies in advance for the bits I go off the rails a bit.



And there is a good reason for that too, and it is mainly because in the last three releases, measured in content, dwarf the preceding chapters.

Chapters 1-4 contained ~3,800 images.
Chapter 5 adds ~3,100, bringing it to ~6,900 (doubling everything that came before)
Chapter 6 adds ~5,700, bringing it to ~12,600 (almost doubling everything that came before again)
Chapter 7 adds ~10,100, bringing it to ~23,700 (almost doubling everything that came before again)

The main reason for this explosion is that people started to have actual sex. Whereas chapters 1-3 still teased how the MC was blue-balled, and from chapter 3 on some smaller sex scenes were added, once we got into some serious business with the main love interests, as well as having to up the stakes with the existing ones, the effort just exponentially increased.

And while seems reasonable that development time will have some impact in momentum and fan base enthusiasm, I propose that the alternative of not having sex with love interests, or have them reduced in scope to about half a dozen stills also doesn't help to create fans.



You make a few good points, but I want to zoom in on this one and the next one in particular.

One of the things that sets Light of my Life apart is that it releases large chunks of content at a time, that can be enjoyed as a whole, and have an arch that can be appreciated in a way that you can't if it's released piecemeal in little chunks and parts,. Many of which would hardly have any sexual content, mind.
That's a release model that works for a fun fuck-fest, and there's plenty of those that are an absolute blast. It's just not what Light of my Life is.

I'm the first one to admit that maybe I'm a bit of an stubborn idiot in this regard, and I have a poor business sense. Or rather, that I don't really put much value in the business side of the process.
But I'm also not a great believer in giving people what they want in general, because frankly l don't think people have the faintest idea what they want, and what they say they want will turn out to be something they don't much care for if they actually get it.
Instead, I try giving people what I feel is as good a thing as I can make it, and I hope that people will say "I really wanted that" once they get it.

So the short of it is that either Light of my Life is released in large chunks that deliver an experience that I think is good, or not at all. Because I'm convinced that if I just give them a month of work (or two, or three) at a time, it may be what they say they want, but it'll turn them off of the whole thing pretty fast.



I hope the answer is "because they want to see this game being made", and for a small fraction of players (♥), it actually is. It's not really a transactional thing, but an abstract notion about supporting the development so one day, in a pretty intangible process, there'll be more game, for everyone, even those that didn't pay.
Sure enough, that is a hard concept to convey, and conversion rates from players to supporters are absolutely as atrocious as you'd expect at the best of times. But it's really the only way to have something like this be made, the alternative being the old-school model of small studios searching for investors who are in it for the ROI.

Almost no one on f95zone understands what patronage is. It's super frustrating, so many people wrongly think that it's a purchase agreement for a good, but that is explicitly not what patreon or patronage in general is. I hope your support increases as your work definitely warrants it.

 

[DA22]

Almost no one on f95zone understands what patronage is. It's super frustrating, so many people wrongly think that it's a purchase agreement for a good, but that is explicitly not what patreon or patronage in general is. I hope your support increases as your work definitely warrants it.

Part of the problem with that is other devs though that are actually selling or trying to sell their updates, paywall part of their updates and so on without using even options then like at least charging per update instead of per month. Muddying the water. Personally I much prefer the way naughty does it.

 

[etool]

naughtyroad

keep doing your thing, it has been a great journey for many of us, keep Your own pace

 

[Miðgarðsormr]

What do people want?

Well the short answer to that is the obvious one."They want sex scenes"
What people however fail to realize is that the build up is what sells those sex scenes. We all can watch porn in mere seconds and forget the faces, the actors and everything involved in mere seconds after watching it.

That does not help build a fanbase, business or aquire money in the long run. And we are in for the long run.

The longer and more correct answer is "People are dumb as a brick"

People claim they want something but the moment they get that something they lose all interest in it because they got what they wanted and not want something else. That can be more, something else entirely, the same thing again but wrapped in different colours (FIFA, Call of Duty etc.)

But what you get once you give in to their wishes and demands is a bunch of ungrateful whining dicks that behave like little spoiled children who bitch and whine about almost everything you do. Thats exhausting, erases your creative flow and your passion hits rock bottom almost instantly.

What happens once this project is done and what is the reputation of naughtyroad till it happens?

So far his reputation is that he doesn't bend to the demands and wishes of others who try to influence his vision to something they want or claim to need. That he releases quality content in terms of renders, coding, writing and characters with more depth than 99% of the games on this board.
Immersion and a believable plot/story that could be used to teach at writing schools.

People do not forget about the characters, story and plot even weeks or years after they played it. Haters gonna hate but they still play it. They still get impatient near a release and they still bombard us and naughty with demands, silly arguments and keep trying to get a foot in the door to maybe... just maybe get a chance to change even the slightest thing in the game. From the beginning till now they had no chance.

The Options are simple from a business point of view.

Option 1 Naughty gives in to the demands. Releases are earlier, with less content. People specualte more, demand more, kill his creativity and passion, burn him out and leave once the project is done to bitch and whine somewhere else. This increases the money flow, the fanbase growth but in the long run loses alot of people cause the quality will suffer, creativity will suffer, workflow will be more stressfull and deadlines will sit in his neck 24/7. Even sleep becomes a luxury as you can't shut off the voice in your head that reminds you of the deadline everytime you try to relax.

Option 2 Naughty reaches out again to companys who can distribute his game. Like GOG, Steam etc. The thing i learned in writing is that No doesn't mean no until you get a written message that states "We have recieved your multiple requests to publish your work but sadly have to inform you that after thoroughly studying your material and after careful consideration, we can offer no place in our portfolio for you! We still wish you the best for your future business endeavours" Which is business language for "Stop sending me shit you fucking muppet"

He also keeps ignoring the demands and whining of people and continues his work as he envisioned it from the start and keeps grinding the hard part of making his hobby a business model that can pay his bills. The hard part of becoming your own boss is not just the work. It is everyone around you or in this case online who try to make you fail. The companies you reach out to for help who crush your dreams with one negative answer after another.


Once this game is done. Really done. Finished and polished. Naughty will be known for making a good story, a good game, in depth characters with believable emotions that people can feel attached to not just brainless bimbos who just yell fucky fucky.
Which is hard, demanding and can burn someone out pretty fast. Nevertheless it is crucial that he finishes it on his terms, his vision and his decisions. Otherwise it will haunt him for the rest of his days that he could not finish it the way he wanted.

I do not care if Steam said no. I do not care if GOG will say no. Someone will say yes and they will make lots of money and he will make lots of money.

How can i be certain? Simple. Big Publisher be it gaming or writing or even movies. Claim they know what people want. Yet they sink millions in movies, games, books and they all act shocked and call the fanbase all kinds of names. They don't know shit anymore. They got to comfortable sitting on their asses counting money and producing one garbage after another. It made money for a time but true Quality will shine through it all sooner or later. We happend to be one of the later ones. Fine by me.

Want some examples?
Game of thrones = Season 1 to 7 David Benoiff and D.B. Weiss followed the books George R.R. Martin wrote almost 1:1 and everyone involved got rich. Season 8 they go off script and write their own stuff despite not knowing shit about writing. Same here. People who don't know shit demand or claim to know better than the one who created everything they love in the first place. If you listen to such people you will shoot yourself in the face... twice. First for listenting to them and secondly for actually believing them.

Cyberpunk 2077 We will create the best game since witcher 3 and GTA V combined. They fail. They listen to investors rather than their staff, overwork their employees, write a story full of plot holes, try to reach insane deadlines and kill every creativity of their staff in the crib. Fail horribly in all aspects. Why? They listen to everyone aside from the people who actually make the fucking game. Investors, Fans, journalists. They live in a fantasy land that completely ignores reality cause they know best. And the people who actually do all the work are completely ignored.

Larian Studios comes around with Baldurs Gate 3 and not only shows what a work of passion without grinding your team half to death can do and not only win every price there is but make millions with it. All because they stay true to their vision and don't give two shits on the haters. Ignore everyone who claims "no one will buy this or play this, this genre is dead, who the actuall fuck plays a game with a combat system that has turns in this day and age?"


Yes it is hard and we do not pretend that once the game is done Naughty suddenly becomes a millionaire but what he can establish here is quite obvious. Future customers and investors will know 5 Things.

1. He does not fold under pressure. To no one. Thats important especially in business deals as everyone is trying to fuck you on the deal. EVERYONE!
2. He knows his shit. Story, Plot, Characters with depth, Coding, Renders. He knows how to make a game 100% on his own. So if a team becomes an option he knows exactly what people he hires need to be capable off and what is important and what isn't.
3. He delivers what he promises. Yes it takes time. Yes it is alot of work. But do you want quality or garbage?
4. He knows how to write on a professional level. Which is alot of work and a demanding one but also showcases the quality of his projects and what to expect. Both for customers/investors and future business partners.
5. He is transparent. Everyone from customers to investors or future business partners know exactly what they will get if they join. Thats worth alot in todays world.


And yes i again wrote way to much but since i got a newborn in my house.. (my wife is at fault) i have to take every second i can to write or sleep. And today is writing day..... well it is night but its her turn

 

[jamdan]

In many ways, people throwing fits is a badge of honor. Not just for this game but many others.

Games are like candy. Kids whine and throw fits because they want the candy. If the candy wasn't good, no kids would care about it.

 

[Etor96]

How do I make sure Macy and Denise don't have an intimate relationship with each other?

 

[PBS666]

How do I make sure Macy and Denise don't have an intimate relationship with each other?

By not playing I guess. It's an integral part of the story.

 

[TigerWolfe]

How do I make sure Macy and Denise don't have an intimate relationship with each other?

By turning off the game.

 

[rafahli]

mc pipokinha kkkkkk

 

[SmilesGB]

Such a fantastic game, an amazing story and very well written, i like games that have a good story, and yours is one of the top ones out there, the emotions of the story is heartwarming, and its has everything, comedy, drama, sadness and thrill, you name it. the progressing of the intimate parts is slow but that only makes it better, it has great animations and fantastic artwork and great music scores.

One thing i would like better though is then the 2 girls talk together like in the kitchen and MC is not around, they should face each other instead of looking like the are looking at the MC, that happened once when they were at the lake in the woods and i think that's how it also should look at home, just a suggestion
That's all i could say that missing, otherwise and amazing and complete game, and cannot wait to follow it and see what unfolds.
When writing this am still playing it and are on chapter 6 or 7 not sure, hehe.

I just has to end with a big thanks do the dev Naughty Road for making such an amazing game and keep it up!

Warmest Regards
Smiles

 

[evileeyore]

I've been following this game for years. I can't say the girls are pretty*... or ugly... but they are striking. Most games of this nature - adult visual novel, porn game, 'relationship trainer', whatever you want to call them - they are forgettable. In most, I'd be hard pressed to pick any of the characters out of lineup once I'd been away from the game for more than five minutes (slight exaggeration, but only slight).

But this game? I played Chapter 1, was impressed, but then didn't really have time to keep up with games for a few years. I got time again and with my computer on it's last legs (long story, it's ancient and the graphics card died a long time ago) I started thinking about visual novel games again (I know most didn't require gpus, at least they didn't used to). The only one† I remembered was, well, to be honest I couldn't, remember the name of Light of My Life, but I remembered the characters. I remembered them well enough a google search turned the game up immediately.

I commenced to get into chapters 2 through 4... and well, it was as good as I'd remembered, if not better. Story wise, graphics wise, depth of character wise, it's the best AVN I've ever played.

Kudos Naughty, wish I had more dosh to throw at you in Patreon each month, but I'm a poor sad sack.


* They are not my type, but they aren't ugly. They are... I'd say "real world girl next door" types. The imperfections make them, real. Grounded. Realized. They have a solidity of character no other 3D cgi game has for it's characters. There are a few 'cartoony' games with interesting or standout models, but I've rarely encountered an AVN/porn game willing to give the characters visual "flaws" (for lack of a better term), and those flaws make these character more real, almost living in a caricatured, slightly over-the-top, way.

† Heavy Five is the only other game I remembered well enough to find again with a search. As you can see, it's the only other game I enjoy well enough to go to the effort to stick it in my sig. And it too has had a protracted dev cycle and has upgraded beyond my poor cursed potatoe's ability to run.

 

[pablo_max]

Not sure why you guys are thinking that a lack of real sex scenes is the issue. The lack of support has nothing at all to do with that.
The issue is a very simple one.
While the game is great and I very much enjoy the dev's work, there are two unavoidable issues.
1. The models used are rather "niche" with respect to what is traditionally considered "attractive". I personally like them, but I also understand that a lot of people don't. So, that limits the audience.
2. Nearly 2 year update intervals. I know there are a few guys on this site that are very dedicated to the game, but it's important to understand that most people see it as just that, a game. If they give out money each month, they expect some level of return on their money in form of updates. I don't think it is unreasonable for people to expect updates in a more reasonable amount of time if they are giving out money each month. While I get that many of you think that getting something out of your money is not the point of patreon, you are in the minority in your views, I'd suggest.

Personally, I hope that the Dev finds a way to balance producing the game in more timely manner that can help generate his expected income with his existing personal obligations as I think he does unique and interesting work. Something this site generally lacks with every game being same.

 

[Joshy92]

Every time I think of Macy & Denise making out, I get very excited.
They are so beautiful & sexy.

And I love that they love each other romantically.
This is a true throuple.

 

[Mr. Chatty]

Hmm, I think we're losing some nuance in the message here. I made a post in which I said that there's a chance the chapter that is still coming is going to the last one if support keeps dwindling like it has been over the past year, but there's no decision on that yet, and if it doesn't come to that, we might be looking at three more chapters for it to be done.

I'm getting the idea that some of you lot are under the impression that it's already over at this moment, which is not the case.

What exactly do you mean by "dwindling"? You definitely are getting 4500+$ from subscribestar and patreon combined, what's the number that you would consider "dwindling"? Also if you are getting 4500+$ from this and you yourself said that you are getting much more than this from your 1st job, why can't you just get yourself to relax and just work on the plan A because you are literally flowing in money with respect to today's day and age unless you are thinking about getting to the Forbes billionaires magazine from this profession.

There are a few other major reasons why you should work on plan A instead of plan B, but others might already have stated those so I thought I should just choose to be blunt about it and ask if "money" is the problem or "more money" is the problem.

 

[Ru1n]

What exactly do you mean by "dwindling"? You definitely are getting 4500+$ from subscribestar and patreon combined, what's the number that you would consider "dwindling"? Also if you are getting 4500+$ from this and you yourself said that you are getting much more than this from your 1st job, why can't you just get yourself to relax and just work on the plan A because you are literally flowing in money with respect to today's day and age unless you are thinking about getting to the Forbes billionaires magazine from this profession.

There are a few other major reasons why you should work on plan A instead of plan B, but others might already have stated those so I thought I should just choose to be blunt about it and ask if "money" is the problem or "more money" is the problem.

 

[Count Morado]

What exactly do you mean by "dwindling"? You definitely are getting 4500+$ from subscribestar and patreon combined, what's the number that you would consider "dwindling"? Also if you are getting 4500+$ from this and you yourself said that you are getting much more than this from your 1st job, why can't you just get yourself to relax and just work on the plan A because you are literally flowing in money with respect to today's day and age unless you are thinking about getting to the Forbes billionaires magazine from this profession.

There are a few other major reasons why you should work on plan A instead of plan B, but others might already have stated those so I thought I should just choose to be blunt about it and ask if "money" is the problem or "more money" is the problem.

Hello Mr. Entitlement who is bitching about a developer who makes their game available for free for anyone who wishes to play it.

Spoiler: wall

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Think about it. You simply want the developer to continue making this game so that you can continue to play for free so that you can continue to shoot your load into a dirty sock. You don't give a flying fuck if he earns $1 or $1,000,000 on it - just as long as you can get your little rocks off when you want, how you want, for free as you like.

 

[csmk14]

Hmm, I think we're losing some nuance in the message here. I made a post in which I said that there's a chance the chapter that is still coming is going to the last one if support keeps dwindling like it has been over the past year, but there's no decision on that yet, and if it doesn't come to that, we might be looking at three more chapters for it to be done.

I'm getting the idea that some of you lot are under the impression that it's already over at this moment, which is not the case.

I wish like so many devs that I could offer more than words to show my appreciation for this great game, and while I'd be sad to see this end so soon, I am glad that unlike some Dev you are of principle enough not just drop this, and that deserves respect, and at least from me, you have it.

 

[Backdoorman]

man when is the nest updare!!t

 

[naughtyroad]

What exactly do you mean by "dwindling"? You definitely are getting 4500+$ from subscribestar and patreon combined, what's the number that you would consider "dwindling"? Also if you are getting 4500+$ from this and you yourself said that you are getting much more than this from your 1st job, why can't you just get yourself to relax and just work on the plan A because you are literally flowing in money with respect to today's day and age unless you are thinking about getting to the Forbes billionaires magazine from this profession.

There are a few other major reasons why you should work on plan A instead of plan B, but others might already have stated those so I thought I should just choose to be blunt about it and ask if "money" is the problem or "more money" is the problem.

Cripes. Time for more rumor control because people aren't able to read for shit.

I clearly said I'm making a lot LESS off of Light of my Life (which is my first job, in terms of investment of time) than from my second job (which is a 32 hrs/wk office job).

And income from LomL is not 4500 as you just magically made up. But to make matters worse, because we live in this annoying thing called reality that gets in the way of everything for some reason, platform fees and taxes means I make a good deal less than half of what I "make". The end result of that is, that on an per hour basis, I'm actually better off pushing a mob at a local McDonnald's, if money making is the goal. Even if I was making this magic 4500,-.

So I'm not "literally flowing in money". What I am doing is putting in every free hour I can get from the other job that actually is the one I need to pay my bills, into development of Light of my Life. And yes, I have not been on a vacation in 4 years because I also put all the paid vacation days I get into development, so I can keep some sort of progress going before the hordes start screaming again about what a milking bastard I am.

Jeebus fudge, but these entitled wankers have a way of turning my day sour.