King Slayer100

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Aug 20, 2018
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Damm ,so LOML getting cut short :(. Sad news but I can understand, with support declining. release schedule is way too long for a avn . Almost 5 years in development with no active promotion ,it's hard to keep the intrest up I guess.
 

naughtyroad

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Jan 8, 2019
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Hmm, I think we're losing some nuance in the message here. I made a post in which I said that there's a chance the chapter that is still coming is going to the last one if support keeps dwindling like it has been over the past year, but there's no decision on that yet, and if it doesn't come to that, we might be looking at three more chapters for it to be done.

I'm getting the idea that some of you lot are under the impression that it's already over at this moment, which is not the case.
 

UncleNanard

I am to music what Kanye West is to adult games.
Game Developer
Jul 1, 2017
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I feel like I've started a negative wave X)
I was talking about steam. I think the dev would have become a millionaire if Steam had published his game.
Then also because I thought, since I hadn't followed the funding story, that the dev had already made good progress on the update :(

Is it indiscreet to ask how much the dev would want per month to continue developing the game with 2 story + epilogue?

It's none of my business, but I know for a fact that with taxes and fees, the $1 tier no longer makes any profit. If you consider the 8-12% share of Patreon plus taxes, the $1 tier almost costs money. (If the developer is in Europe, there's a new law that forces developers to declare Patreon income on taxes, in fact, it is patreon who is obliged to declare dev income to the state, so it can no longer be hidden. So it's between 24% and 60% of revenue in the European country I know of.)

I don't know if he has many patrons at $1, but he should explain the situation to them and propose moving to $2 or $3 for the first tier (actually, with inflation, the first tier should be $5 to be profitable, but inflation also affects the patrons :'( )

And if some $1 patrons refuse, maybe still create a $3 tier for those who are okay with it?

If that means 2 stories + an epilogue, I would happily pay $3.
 

naughtyroad

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Jan 8, 2019
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I feel like I've started a negative wave X)
I was talking about steam. I think the dev would have become a millionaire if Steam had published his game.
Then also because I thought, since I hadn't followed the funding story, that the dev had already made good progress on the update :(

Is it indiscreet to ask how much the dev would want per month to continue developing the game with 2 story + epilogue?

It's none of my business, but I know for a fact that with taxes and fees, the $1 tier no longer makes any profit. If you consider the 8-12% share of Patreon plus taxes, the $1 tier almost costs money. (If the developer is in Europe, there's a new law that forces developers to declare Patreon income on taxes, in fact, it is patreon who is obliged to declare dev income to the state, so it can no longer be hidden. So it's between 24% and 60% of revenue in the European country I know of.)

I don't know if he has many patrons at $1, but he should explain the situation to them and propose moving to $2 or $3 for the first tier (actually, with inflation, the first tier should be $5 to be profitable, but inflation also affects the patrons :'( )

And if some $1 patrons refuse, maybe still create a $3 tier for those who are okay with it?

If that means 2 stories + an epilogue, I would happily pay $3.
A little while back I did a little calculation and figured out that Light off my Life nets a little under (local) minimum wage on an hourly base, and support has steadily declined since.
Let me add to that that I never started this with the idea it'd make me rich, and I'd be making VNs in one way or another even if I was doing it for free. But it'd be nice to make a decent buck off it, and if people are done with LomL, it makes sense to wrap that project up in a way that provides a decent ending and some closure, and move on to a new project.

As to taxes, yeah, I'm based in Europe, and the tax man takes half (because it's my second job, income wise, but my first job timewise, at around 45/50 hrs a week).

Wrt the $1 tier, that isn't really efficient, that's true, as the payment processor fees that are taken are higher for those smaller payments (e.g. <= USD 3,-).

So if there are any readers that support multiple devs at $1: it's much more efficient to rotate your support, and donate the total amount of support to one dev one month, and another one the next month, etc.

The $1 tier doesn't actually cost money, as payment, platform, and other fees are mostly percentages, but it's not the most efficient one.

But to get back to the use of having a 1 dollar tier, it mainly exists as a gateway to the higher tiers, so in that regard, it serves a purpose even if there's more cost overhead.

Maybe you could consider trying to publish this game on GOG? I'd buy it at least. This is one of my favourite games.
GOG curates what comes on their platform up front (unlike steam, where anyone can basically create a page in the store), and I've sent a submission but got no response, which I'm led to believe means they declined.
 

about_that

New Member
Dec 4, 2017
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A little while back I did a little calculation and figured out that Light off my Life nets a little under (local) minimum wage on an hourly base, and support has steadily declined since.
Let me add to that that I never started this with the idea it'd make me rich, and I'd be making VNs in one way or another even if I was doing it for free. But it'd be nice to make a decent buck off it, and if people are done with LomL, it makes sense to wrap that project up in a way that provides a decent ending and some closure, and move on to a new project.

As to taxes, yeah, I'm based in Europe, and the tax man takes half (because it's my second job, income wise, but my first job timewise, at around 45/50 hrs a week).

Wrt the $1 tier, that isn't really efficient, that's true, as the payment processor fees that are taken are higher for those smaller payments (e.g. <= USD 3,-).

So if there are any readers that support multiple devs at $1: it's much more efficient to rotate your support, and donate the total amount of support to one dev one month, and another one the next month, etc.

The $1 tier doesn't actually cost money, as payment, platform, and other fees are mostly percentages, but it's not the most efficient one.

But to get back to the use of having a 1 dollar tier, it mainly exists as a gateway to the higher tiers, so in that regard, it serves a purpose even if there's more cost overhead.



GOG curates what comes on their platform up front (unlike steam, where anyone can basically create a page in the store), and I've sent a submission but got no response, which I'm led to believe means they declined.
Well I did my part and subbed, I wouldn't want this game (or a few others on this site) to end prematurely or be abandoned. I wishlisted this on Steam before that went bitter. The girls don't have a mainstream look so to say, but the writing is superb and the whole game is quite unique in many regards.
 

FormerlyknownasOlheden

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May 20, 2020
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So if there are any readers that support multiple devs at $1: it's much more efficient to rotate your support, and donate the total amount of support to one dev one month, and another one the next month, etc.

The $1 tier doesn't actually cost money, as payment, platform, and other fees are mostly percentages, but it's not the most efficient one.

But to get back to the use of having a 1 dollar tier, it mainly exists as a gateway to the higher tiers, so in that regard, it serves a purpose even if there's more cost overhead.



GOG curates what comes on their platform up front (unlike steam, where anyone can basically create a page in the store), and I've sent a submission but got no response, which I'm led to believe means they declined.
Huh, didn’t think of that, but fairly obvious once you mention it. I’m one of those people who support a bunch of devs at a very low level (used to be 20+ devs at one point but abones and completions have brought it down to 13), but it would probably make more sense to support more actively, like a month or two in a year with a bigger sum. The problem then would be 1) missing out on the regular communication with the devs and 2) keeping track of whose turn it is …
 

pablo_max

Newbie
Oct 25, 2017
77
83
While I understand the dev's predicament of dwindling support, I also think it's not too reasonable to expect folks to support it financially every month given that the updates seem to come every 1.5 to 2 years. That is a long time to give someone money for something you may or may not ever see come to fruition.
 

karumi56

Member
Oct 7, 2019
310
890
While I understand the dev's predicament of dwindling support, I also think it's not too reasonable to expect folks to support it financially every month given that the updates seem to come every 1.5 to 2 years. That is a long time to give someone money for something you may or may not ever see come to fruition.
That's honestly probably one of the bigger reasons. The last three releases have seen the development time for each grow significantly, to the point for chapter 7 it was exceptionally long (more than 18 months). I would imagine it's hard to maintain momentum and fan base enthusiasm under those conditions.
 

Lord_Momentum

Newbie
Sep 16, 2018
32
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Hmm, I think we're losing some nuance in the message here. I made a post in which I said that there's a chance the chapter that is still coming is going to the last one if support keeps dwindling like it has been over the past year, but there's no decision on that yet, and if it doesn't come to that, we might be looking at three more chapters for it to be done.

I'm getting the idea that some of you lot are under the impression that it's already over at this moment, which is not the case.
I get what you mean, but I dont think support will magically increase over the next period of time. I mean as you said before support tends to increase the most when there is an update. Just looking at the progress image on discord tells me about a quarter of the update has been finished over five months of time.

Just a simple extrapolation means the next update will be out in about 15 months. Now I get that game development isnt linear and this is not to throw shade at you as a deveoper, but i would expect that payments will only decrease over this time span.

This is one of the best games on this platform and Updates have been very sizable and high quality, but I think not cutting it into smaller chunks has really been detrimantal for you. Why would anyone pay a monthly fee for patreon, when they could just wait for the update to come out and then subscribe?
 

naughtyroad

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Jan 8, 2019
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Right, some rambling responses to some of the above. Apologies in advance for the bits I go off the rails a bit.

That's honestly probably one of the bigger reasons. The last three releases have seen the development time for each grow significantly, to the point for chapter 7 it was exceptionally long (more than 18 months). I would imagine it's hard to maintain momentum and fan base enthusiasm under those conditions.
And there is a good reason for that too, and it is mainly because in the last three releases, measured in content, dwarf the preceding chapters.

Chapters 1-4 contained ~3,800 images.
Chapter 5 adds ~3,100, bringing it to ~6,900 (doubling everything that came before)
Chapter 6 adds ~5,700, bringing it to ~12,600 (almost doubling everything that came before again)
Chapter 7 adds ~10,100, bringing it to ~23,700 (almost doubling everything that came before again)

The main reason for this explosion is that people started to have actual sex. Whereas chapters 1-3 still teased how the MC was blue-balled, and from chapter 3 on some smaller sex scenes were added, once we got into some serious business with the main love interests, as well as having to up the stakes with the existing ones, the effort just exponentially increased.

And while seems reasonable that development time will have some impact in momentum and fan base enthusiasm, I propose that the alternative of not having sex with love interests, or have them reduced in scope to about half a dozen stills also doesn't help to create fans.

(...)
This is one of the best games on this platform and Updates have been very sizable and high quality, but I think not cutting it into smaller chunks has really been detrimantal for you. (...)
You make a few good points, but I want to zoom in on this one and the next one in particular.

One of the things that sets Light of my Life apart is that it releases large chunks of content at a time, that can be enjoyed as a whole, and have an arch that can be appreciated in a way that you can't if it's released piecemeal in little chunks and parts,. Many of which would hardly have any sexual content, mind.
That's a release model that works for a fun fuck-fest, and there's plenty of those that are an absolute blast. It's just not what Light of my Life is.

I'm the first one to admit that maybe I'm a bit of an stubborn idiot in this regard, and I have a poor business sense. Or rather, that I don't really put much value in the business side of the process.
But I'm also not a great believer in giving people what they want in general, because frankly l don't think people have the faintest idea what they want, and what they say they want will turn out to be something they don't much care for if they actually get it.
Instead, I try giving people what I feel is as good a thing as I can make it, and I hope that people will say "I really wanted that" once they get it.

So the short of it is that either Light of my Life is released in large chunks that deliver an experience that I think is good, or not at all. Because I'm convinced that if I just give them a month of work (or two, or three) at a time, it may be what they say they want, but it'll turn them off of the whole thing pretty fast.

(...) Why would anyone pay a monthly fee for Patreon, when they could just wait for the update to come out and then subscribe?
I hope the answer is "because they want to see this game being made", and for a small fraction of players (♥), it actually is. It's not really a transactional thing, but an abstract notion about supporting the development so one day, in a pretty intangible process, there'll be more game, for everyone, even those that didn't pay.
Sure enough, that is a hard concept to convey, and conversion rates from players to supporters are absolutely as atrocious as you'd expect at the best of times. But it's really the only way to have something like this be made, the alternative being the old-school model of small studios searching for investors who are in it for the ROI.
 
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