Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.10.7 Hotfix] [Innoxia]

[alex2011]

I kinda jumped into this whole drama by accident lol.

So is the dev in the middle of an Yandere Dev situation?

From aggressively selling yourself short to just like, aggressively wrong. But whatever. You don't understand how free to play works as a business model. And I don't care enough to actually explain it to you. No one in life owes you anything, including me. You can't see it, but I actually rolled my eyes there.



Sorta, but a little different. Here's the general recap:

Both games are... technically challenged, lets say. There's some serious questions whether this game is technically capable of actually continuing much longer. You can see an example of this with the other person showing off their crash. 250 NPCs and the game dies. We're supposed to be getting like 10 more fully fleshed out areas full of NPCs. That's not going to be possible.

There are a lot of basic optimizations that could be used, but I'm not personally confident. The dev started the project as an amateur and it kind of shows. But she also refuses any help outside of from a couple specific people, who really aren't going to provide the help needed either.

The other half of the drama is the delays. Like, its kind of gotten to the point where it's a running gag. So much so that she had to disable all comments on the official blog, and the discord chases out anyone who says anything. Which is why this thread is now so active. She didn't want another blog post with 1000 comments making fun of how slow the game development is, I guess lol

It's been like two years since we've got a major game update that expands the actual story or play area of the game. It's been six or seven months of the dev outright telling us she's working on the next area, only to delay until the next patch. And in the last two updates we found out that no content has been worked on for those areas.

There's not really drama about the dev being a creepy asshole or anything like that. The worst I can say about her is that she obvious lied quite a bit about what she was working on. But at least, as far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any weird sexual drama involving minors or anything. Outside of one or two people this is more 'laughing at the situation' drama and not 'we might want to call the police' drama lol



You can also just explore until you find them, but that's a pain. I wouldn't recommend it unless you have an arcane storm going. If a storm is going you can at least one shot the NPCs with tease and then remove them, so you can spam through explorations without having to spawn in many tiles worth of NPCs.

There's also another technical issue with the game, that crash that people have reported? It is because the game can only handle so many individual NPCs at once. That's going to be a real problem and all this side content, except the latest one, adds more to the mix, reducing the number of NPCs we can randomly generate safely.

Sooner or later, closer to sooner, it will end up crashing on startup because so many are packed into Dominion that adding another area or two will reach that limit or surpass it.

Another issue is just how much content is packed into just the starting area, that's going to leave an impression on newer players that every area has that much content and said players will be disappointed to find out that is not the case. The other areas are no longer even capable of handling this much content each because of that NPC limit.

This is one of the reasons people have been annoyed or even angry at side content getting priority, though the fact that the dev outright said it would be postponed to focus on main content and that statement turning out to be a lie doesn't help.

Support for followers was dropped to make the creation of new content easier. It can still be enabled in the options.

Due to followers no longer being supported, having the companion feature enabled will likely cause problems when playing through content created after support was discontinued.

Given that Inno has produced next to no new content since ceasing support, the number of instances where it causes problems is pretty low. And Elementals are better companions anyway.

However, as with all unsupported systems, it will eventually get into a conflict with newer code, thus requiring a fix for the old code or its removal entirely, which is going to rile people up even more than discontinuation did.

 

[Duarchy]

(I do actually support her dropping that, followers exponentially complicate sex scenes)

And Elementals are better companions anyway.

Follower > Elemental, sure they complicate sex, but that's because they're at least present. That or I'm retarded and I don't know how to spit roast enemies with my elemental. Elementals just don't have much personality, and there's not much there to grasp, where as a follower can be a basically fleshed out character in and of themselves. It is neat that elementals can't be searched by the police though. But yeah, the follower mechanic allowed for interesting things, like offering your follower dibs on boning the enemy. Also, it's just a more interesting dynamic, like a giant horned quadruped demon rat girl, and her lesser rat girl cultist follower. I for one would take follower support over the NPC focus we've seen lately, but I think my biases are evident, I'm very anti-anti-sandbox.

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

So, for those interested, there's actually entire theses developing around the concept of the patreon business model. After all, its sort of a unique halfway point. A patreon dev isnt really selling a product after all, they're either selling access to something (only subs get the product)- which has a business precedent, or they're selling early access to something that eventually is free. That bit's more murky.

Inno uses the second model.

Nitpick, but technically Inno is selling convenient access, not early access. Anyone with a command line and two brain cells to rub together can legitimately get the updates at the same time as the subscribers.

 

[redcynic]

True! Hell, I did it and if I can do it you don't even need two braincells.

 

[circuit]

Another issue is just how much content is packed into just the starting area, that's going to leave an impression on newer players that every area has that much content and said players will be disappointed to find out that is not the case. The other areas are no longer even capable of handling this much content each because of that NPC limit.

This is one of the reasons people have been annoyed or even angry at side content getting priority, though the fact that the dev outright said it would be postponed to focus on main content and that statement turning out to be a lie doesn't help.


However, as with all unsupported systems, it will eventually get into a conflict with newer code, thus requiring a fix for the old code or its removal entirely, which is going to rile people up even more than discontinuation did.

I've actually brought this up in the discord before the answer i got is that shes promising to focus on main content again which then led into the argument of what "main" content is for instance the fields which are a completely side thing are considered main content and apparently it has been the major hang up in development

 

[alex2011]

I've actually brought this up in the discord before the answer i got is that shes promising to focus on main content again which then led into the argument of what "main" content is for instance the fields which are a completely side thing are considered main content and apparently it has been the major hang up in development

To be fair, the fields being a new area that must be traversed as part of the main quest is what makes it main content.

Now, quests solely within the fields or something like the quest that was the match that lit the powder keg on the blog, the Nyan rework, THAT is actual side content.

Side content is content with no real connection to the main quest, main content is anything that is connected, like the quest itself, an area that has to be traveled through to get to the next step in the quest, or an area where the next step takes place.

Dealing with the Imp gangs and fortresses in Submission is main content because that is how you get access to Lyssieth, but in that same area, the Rat Warrens quest is side content because it is not required. Submission itself is maon content because that is where Lyssieth is, but the Gambler's Den is not because it is an area not required to prgress the main quest.

The next main quest zone is Elis, which you must travel through the fields to get to, making both of those areas main content, but any farms or other areas in the fields are side content barring any you have to go to on your way to Elis as a main quest step.

Hopefully this makes it clear enough what distinguishes the two, I'm not sure how much clearer I could be.

On a separate note, I hope the Discord didn't treat you too badly, they seem to dislike anyone talking about the main quest or anything else they aren't focused on.

 

[redcynic]

I just want floofy kitsunes in a popular text porn game that don't require mt everest levels of climbing up a writer's own smug ass to engage with, please Inno. This is all I ask. You can vanish to Iberia and snort cocaine off a fursuit's ass for the rest of your life or go on a crusade to liberate your country from evil or whatever the fuck you think is a good way to spend horny patreon bucks but just give me the kitsune.

 

[organord]

I just want floofy kitsunes in a popular text porn game that don't require mt everest levels of climbing up a writer's own smug ass to engage with, please Inno.

I thought I was on the CoC2 thread for most of this sentence.

 

[circuit]

To be fair, the fields being a new area that must be traversed as part of the main quest is what makes it main content.

Now, quests solely within the fields or something like the quest that was the match that lit the powder keg on the blog, the Nyan rework, THAT is actual side content.

Side content is content with no real connection to the main quest, main content is anything that is connected, like the quest itself, an area that has to be traveled through to get to the next step in the quest, or an area where the next step takes place.

Dealing with the Imp gangs and fortresses in Submission is main content because that is how you get access to Lyssieth, but in that same area, the Rat Warrens quest is side content because it is not required. Submission itself is maon content because that is where Lyssieth is, but the Gambler's Den is not because it is an area not required to prgress the main quest.

The next main quest zone is Elis, which you must travel through the fields to get to, making both of those areas main content, but any farms or other areas in the fields are side content barring any you have to go to on your way to Elis as a main quest step.

Hopefully this makes it clear enough what distinguishes the two, I'm not sure how much clearer I could be.

On a separate note, I hope the Discord didn't treat you too badly, they seem to dislike anyone talking about the main quest or anything else they aren't focused on.

the thing about the fields is from what i can tell its an area on the map not the map itself right now you can walk to were the next objective is suppose to be and the fields is just suppose to be filler with no narrative purpose

 

[alex2011]

the thing about the fields is from what i can tell its an area on the map not the map itself right now you can walk to were the next objective is suppose to be and the fields is just suppose to be filler with no narrative purpose

But it is a necessary area to go through for the main quest. The content in it, IF it ever gets content, will likely be side stuff that isn't necessary at all, but Elis cannot be traveled to without going into the fields.

 

[tehlemon]

Thanks, im trying to edit the save file to see if i can insert 50,000 flames but i dont seem to find the values Dx

Search for your character's name, and then search for something like '<money value="3076680598"/>' but with your money value instead of mine.

The only min maxing that occurs in Lilith's Throne is the memory requirements :rimshot:

Minimum content, maximum memory!

lmao

I've actually brought this up in the discord before the answer i got is that shes promising to focus on main content again which then led into the argument of what "main" content is for instance the fields which are a completely side thing are considered main content and apparently it has been the major hang up in development

lmao, yeah. That's what I was talking about when I said that being part of an official discord as a developer is a bad idea. If she goes against the hivemind they're just as likely to turn on her as they any of us. And clearly they have just as strong opinions on what Inno should be doing as we do.

I just want floofy kitsunes in a popular text porn game that don't require mt everest levels of climbing up a writer's own smug ass to engage with, please Inno. This is all I ask. You can vanish to Iberia and snort cocaine off a fursuit's ass for the rest of your life or go on a crusade to liberate your country from evil or whatever the fuck you think is a good way to spend horny patreon bucks but just give me the kitsune.

Finally someone I can agree with in this thread.

 

[Sepulchure]

From aggressively selling yourself short to just like, aggressively wrong. But whatever. You don't understand how free to play works as a business model. And I don't care enough to actually explain it to you. No one in life owes you anything, including me. You can't see it, but I actually rolled my eyes there.



Sorta, but a little different. Here's the general recap:

Both games are... technically challenged, lets say. There's some serious questions whether this game is technically capable of actually continuing much longer. You can see an example of this with the other person showing off their crash. 250 NPCs and the game dies. We're supposed to be getting like 10 more fully fleshed out areas full of NPCs. That's not going to be possible.

There are a lot of basic optimizations that could be used, but I'm not personally confident. The dev started the project as an amateur and it kind of shows. But she also refuses any help outside of from a couple specific people, who really aren't going to provide the help needed either.

The other half of the drama is the delays. Like, its kind of gotten to the point where it's a running gag. So much so that she had to disable all comments on the official blog, and the discord chases out anyone who says anything. Which is why this thread is now so active. She didn't want another blog post with 1000 comments making fun of how slow the game development is, I guess lol

It's been like two years since we've got a major game update that expands the actual story or play area of the game. It's been six or seven months of the dev outright telling us she's working on the next area, only to delay until the next patch. And in the last two updates we found out that no content has been worked on for those areas.

There's not really drama about the dev being a creepy asshole or anything like that. The worst I can say about her is that she obvious lied quite a bit about what she was working on. But at least, as far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any weird sexual drama involving minors or anything. Outside of one or two people this is more 'laughing at the situation' drama and not 'we might want to call the police' drama lol



You can also just explore until you find them, but that's a pain. I wouldn't recommend it unless you have an arcane storm going. If a storm is going you can at least one shot the NPCs with tease and then remove them, so you can spam through explorations without having to spawn in many tiles worth of NPCs.

Well, at least she didn't blow up Patreon's money into 5000$ sex dolls.

 

[throbzombie]

Now Notepad++ also takes a shit every time I try to open my save; I have a feeling it's got to do with the latest public release because I never had this problem with 3.9.9

 

[Sepulchure]

Now Notepad++ also takes a shit every time I try to open my save; I have a feeling it's got to do with the latest public release because I never had this problem with 3.9.9

I mean, cant the dev just hire a professional programmer to remake the game for her on a new better engine for a couple hundred bucks?

 

[organord]

Now Notepad++ also takes a shit every time I try to open my save; I have a feeling it's got to do with the latest public release because I never had this problem with 3.9.9

How large is your save file?

Mine is 6.6MB, with the upper floor of Lilaya's filled with children/slaves/friendly NPCs (no multi-occupant slave rooms used), and the lower floor empty.
Dominion tiles about 1/3rd filled, Submission tiles nearly empty.
The file contains ~6.9m characters in ~134k lines.

I'm curious how badly it bloats up with tons of children.
I've never tried opening super-heavy files with Notepad++ before so I don't know what its limits are before it becomes unstable.

 

[throbzombie]

How large is your save file?

Mine is 6.6MB, with the upper floor of Lilaya's filled with children/slaves/friendly NPCs (no multi-occupant slave rooms used), and the lower floor empty.
Dominion tiles about 1/3rd filled, Submission tiles nearly empty.
The file contains ~6.9m characters in ~134k lines.

I'm curious how badly it bloats up with tons of children.
I've never tried opening super-heavy files with Notepad++ before so I don't know what its limits are before it becomes unstable.

My file is 15MB at 270+ kids, bearing in mind that I haven't met half of them. I don't know if that should make a difference, but I feel like it should. In don't know how big my old save was, but every possible tile in Dominion was occupied with one of my kids, some with more than one.

 

[tehlemon]

Well, at least she didn't blow up Patreon's money into 5000$ sex dolls.

Is that a thing that happened? I don't remember that drama lol

Now Notepad++ also takes a shit every time I try to open my save; I have a feeling it's got to do with the latest public release because I never had this problem with 3.9.9

How large is the file? I have a dedicated XML editor I use, and even it struggles with the save files lol

I mean, cant the dev just hire a professional programmer to remake the game for her on a new better engine for a couple hundred bucks?

How large is your save file?

Mine is 6.6MB, with the upper floor of Lilaya's filled with children/slaves/friendly NPCs (no multi-occupant slave rooms used), and the lower floor empty.
Dominion tiles about 1/3rd filled, Submission tiles nearly empty.
The file contains ~6.9m characters in ~134k lines.

I'm curious how badly it bloats up with tons of children.
I've never tried opening super-heavy files with Notepad++ before so I don't know what its limits are before it becomes unstable.

My largest file is 17mb. It is so fucking bloated its hilarious. The amount of redundant data that gets kept in memory and in the save files is hilariously bad.

I actually know a good number of ways to fix the problems there. Seeing this has made my own projects way better because now I know what to avoid lol

 

[throbzombie]

My largest file is 17mb. It is so fucking bloated its hilarious. The amount of redundant data that gets kept in memory and in the save files is hilariously bad.

I actually know a good number of ways to fix the problems there. Seeing this has made my own projects way better because now I know what to avoid lol

Yeah, IIRC it retains character data on every single NPC, even the ones that have been removed from the game one way or another. And geez, out of 278 children, both born and unborn, I've met exactly 100. I bet if I could look at my file, I'd see a complete set of character data for every last one.

But I will give Inno credit; she has done a good job making this info accessible.

 

[organord]

My file is 15MB at 270+ kids, bearing in mind that I haven't met half of them. I don't know if that should make a difference, but I feel like it should. In don't know how big my old save was, but every possible tile in Dominion was occupied with one of my kids, some with more than one.

My largest file is 17mb. It is so fucking bloated its hilarious. The amount of redundant data that gets kept in memory and in the save files is hilariously bad.

I see, thanks. It seems like the savefile doesn't increase in size that much, given the difference in numbers of tracked NPCs in my gamestate and both of your states.

I'm surprised it's causing issues for Notepad++/XML editors at that size.

Yeah, IIRC it retains character data on every single NPC, even the ones that have been removed from the game one way or another. And geez, out of 278 children, both born and unborn, I've met exactly 100. I bet if I could look at my file, I'd see a complete set of character data for every last one.

Huh. If that's true, I really dodged a bullet with the weird way I choose to play.
I dislike all the options to get rid of an NPC, so I avoid letting them spawn unless I'm certain I want to keep them around.

Aside from keeping my number of children low via sterility perks, I savescum all my steps in danger zones: quicksave, take 3-4 steps, quicksave again if no encounter occurs, otherwise quickload, repeat until destination is reached.
Should mean I have almost no redundant data in my save file, as I've never removed an NPC from the game while still keeping my overall NPC count very low.

 

[NODOGAN]

I just want floofy kitsunes in a popular text porn game that don't require mt everest levels of climbing up a writer's own smug ass to engage with, please Inno. This is all I ask. You can vanish to Iberia and snort cocaine off a fursuit's ass for the rest of your life or go on a crusade to liberate your country from evil or whatever the fuck you think is a good way to spend horny patreon bucks but just give me the kitsune.

Ok...as a player of both this and CoC2 you win all the internets with this comment, can relate 100%
Also it'll be arguably better in LT since you can do Incest if ya want UNLIKE CERTAIN OTHER GAME