Harel
Newbie
- Jun 19, 2018
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No, thanks. You have the option to have forced TF and such already. As long as you have the ability to choose this or choose against it, it's fine, but I don't want this game to become those other games.
Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.11.3 Hotfix] [Innoxia]
- Thread starter Waaifu
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- adventure anal sex character creation corruption fantasy female protagonist footjob furry futa/trans futa/trans protagonist gay group sex handjob harem lesbian male protagonist monster girl oral sex pregnancy prostitution rpg sandbox spanking text based titfuck transformation trap turn based combat vaginal sex
Well it'll stay criticised as junk forever then, because it's not a game in its current state.
Serafall Leviathan
Newbie
- Aug 7, 2021
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If you want a collar so bad, go to Amber and lick her feet until she likes you enough to make you her pet.
This game isn't trying to be like DoL or Trap Quest and it shouldn't. It's trying to emulate Corruption of Champions as that was the main inspiration for it. It just has a somewhat better sex system rather than the always written the same way sex in Corruption of Champions and games like it. The game is about how you handle the world around you and it should remain as such as far as a narrative and mechanical purpose goes. It offers a power fantasy to go with the submissive fantasy, but leaves the choice to the player and it does that part well enough.
Making this game insufferable by making it nigh impossible to succeed is not the answer, though. That's not the kind of game it's trying to be nor should it ever strive to be. That kind of game design is on par with level scaling and really only works on games that are built around stamina runs. This game is trying to be an RPG and it's supposed to show how strong you've gotten as you played along. Inno just can't develop a proper system to convey that.
One of the problems with the game is that Inno doesn't put in the effort to match the amount of time it took to update. They also waste characters like Leotie as a tacked on antagonist and there's no reason you can't visit them in Nyan's apartment... since that seems to be where she stays and is on vacation. You don't get to have any alone time with Leotie to get to know her better. Locking her behind a scheduled time is dumb and Inno should know that. After all, you can fuck the Harpy matriarch whenever you like, but to take her on dates is a weekly thing and makes sense. Dates are supposed to be special. However, you can't fuck Nyan or Leotie whenever you want, you have to wait weekly for it. It's a step back and Inno should know better.
The main problem is that Inno hasn't worked on the main story in forever - just now finally releasing some more of it and it's such a tiny bit - and tries to appease people by adding fluff and changes to mechanics that don't really need it, what fluff is added is fairly shallow because they're rushing it out to show something. They need to focus on the main story and get that written down and done so they don't have to worry about it later. They need to scale back the extras until they're at a comfortable pace. They also need to hire coders to look over their work or code in systems the patrons vote for or Inno wants. This includes all the breeds to various morphs.
Shame you can't rely on writer submissions since that one loser made the Mary Sue character and the drama from that. Spoiled the entire thing for everyone, but Inno can take on coders to work on the mechanics they want in the game. That's easy for them and something they should be doing while they focus on the story.
Harel
Newbie
- Jun 19, 2018
- 65
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Your description of the game as a text only VN is accurate, except that it appears that it's attempting to let the player have the experience that they want. Up to and including forced TF's, Non-consensual, enforced corruption gain, and victimization, but also permitting players to avoid those, as well as seeking or avoiding furries, gape, body hair, gender preferences, and several other fetishes and turn-offs.
If that flexibility makes it trash, then we have different goals in playing this porn game: I want to 'Mary Sue' and 'My Guy' throughout the game, and let the other players not do so if they so choose. I don't want anything forced on me in my sexual fantasy, but am happy for others to have that option. I choose to identify with the protagonist rather than feel like an observer of their 'adventures.' I'm not against the game permitting a play style that doesn't turn me on, or that I don't enjoy, as long as play options that I do enjoy still exist.
tl;dr You do you, and leave me alone to do my thing.
I mean... on one hand I agree with the, but im still in the "Its better to take what you can from this and star over" camp than the "work with this messy broken thing as best as you can" camp. A style change could work given this game gets a fresh do over like Strive 4 Power. Now im not gonna sit and say some outlandish things like ThisSiteisFullOfFascist (goes to show the bias there huh?), but i feel something's gotta change and trying to chug along with a game with more W.I.P.s than a BDSM dungeon.
It kinda just sounds like you want another non-con focused game like DoL to which I say... DoL already exists. If Innoxia wanted to make a pure rape game where all you do is struggle every 2 steps you take she would have drew inspiration for games like that instead of CoC and TiTs.
Out of curiosity, do the jobs that NPC guests take ever change anything towards them? Or is it purely cosmetic/aesthetical? Do NPCs do anything when they are out on a job? Is it possible to find them when they are out on a job like with NPC slaves?
While I disagree with a lot of what you wrote, Inno is definitely not appreciating what her claimed vision of this game is going to require in order to be ... well, a game.
LT is supposed to be an RPG. What it needs - far more than a chase for cash or ramping up the challenge level - is meaningful player choice. The meaningful choice that's been set up so far is between choosing to liberate or conquer. Then Inno decided to work on other stuff for a couple years, so that's gone nowhere so far.
The way you play the game needs to be reflected in the story that emerges from the game. The "descent into depravity" arc is one I've used myself, but it should be just one possible way to approach the game.
AFAIK, the only thing that a guest getting a job changes is that they start paying their own way.
Different jobs come with different background job perks (like student or soldier for your character), and some have implemented stat changes.
throbzombie
Well-Known Member
- Oct 15, 2020
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You're proposing an entirely different design philosophy than is intended. LT is all about empowerment, but you want it to be a hardcore survival-type thing. If you want to play DoL, go play DoL. LT is for the those who want to dominate the game world, not be subject to it.
hotaruchan1
Newbie
- Sep 7, 2018
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don't expect any major shifts in tone or style. it is what it is at this point. don't like it. there's the door.
I do think that the game could have more 'victimization' elements, like the Bondage perk on NPCS, or actual forced TF/Fetish Stuff beyond the 'Ah ha ha, I have defeated you, now, choose to willingly drink my potion of three to five themed TF's and maybe a fetish.' While I agree that LT is not a game where you have to fight for survival, I think the availability of easy customization items should come with the caveat that enemies and NPC's should be able to pull more extreme defeat consequences. As it is, for an enemy to fully TF you into their perfect waifu means you have to deliberately lose three or four times, which is honestly hard to do unless you're playing at the highest difficulty. Alternatively, put stronger penalties on losing to 'boss' NPC's. one of the better ones, for me at least, is when you lose to the Blue Tower Incubus and he throws like, three sealed items on you after winning to try to force you to love getting knocked up. You can immediately pay essence to remove them, but the idea is there. More shit like that gives flavor to the NPC's and a real chance of being mildly inconvenienced by having to either reload a save or working to fix yourself after a loss.
Yeah but that's not the point though.
It doesn't scratch anyones itch to go and engage with something they already know is going to occur. I mean, it does the FIRST time and then every time after that it rings hollow because there's no surprise in it, there's no uncertainty in it, you already know how to beat it, and any loss involved is a voluntary action. The player isn't being dominated. The player is submitting.
This is an important distinction. Force is a requirement of domination. You aren't being dommed unless you're being forced in some way. You're allowing it to happen to some extent within safety-word boundaries that you're comfortable with, but ultimately are in fact being forced. That's domination. This act, performed in this way, is pure submission.
But the main factor here is the linear, unsurprising lack of replayability this involves. Without surprise, without its potential to be a radiantly discovered event through a series of overlapping world possibilities coming about through various systems impacting upon the players decisions and behaviour that the player is attempting to simultaneously balance, it becomes hollow after that first time experience. With the addition of overlapping systems that generate different choices from the player and different outcomes because of the wide variety of possibilities it then becomes something that can go quite differently on any and every run. This then becomes exciting, every single time. Never a stale event.
In order to dominate something it has to pose a challenge that goes beyond just grind. That's the point. A game is a challenge that is overcome, I simply propose that the game needs more VARIETY of challenges for the player to overcome, as it currently stands there is one challenge and one challenge only, "Am I strong enough to beat this thing?" and that challenge is simply overcome by grinding to be stronger.
This wears out as soon as the player is done with the harpy nest (which is fantastic as an idea) because the player has seen this gameplay loop now and already overcome it.
I agree to an extent, and tell Inno I don't mean her harm. I'm just very blunt, if I thought I was going to hurt feelings I probably would have been less blunt, I didn't expect her to read here.
What I think, however, is that player choices are more meaningful when player choices have real consequences. Forced transformation and forced fetish are already there, these are foundational building blocks I believe of what I am already talking about. My post simply suggests greatly expanding these elements.
Tell Inno that Forced Transformation and Forced Fetish doesn't trigger during enemy encounters created by storm as well, even when set 100%. I suspect this is an oversight.
The reality of the things I am suggesting are simple, add forced clothing items, as another option if you really need to make everything optional, add forced tattoos, add forced mental states and tie mental states to forced decisions in game (like the forced transformation drink toggle). If a character has been made fully submissive, that character should submit, until the player can find a way to cure themselves of course. Forced eating. Forced bondage. Forced sex toys. In the losing state against dangerous opponents these should all be possibilities and the number of combinations and depth this can have with the systems for enchantments that already exist are endless. There is a huge amount that could be done.
Redesign of areas is really part of two things, making the player travel through some sort of danger zone to deter consistent back and forth travel for showers to heal, making use of healing items, and generally making the world a touch more dangerous and interesting as a result. Some thugs(or enforcers) with a toll passageway could function as an alternative to rent, forcing the player to pay a toll on passing them, deterring too much usage of the passage. Increasing this over time as an increasing threat.
My wording of "inevitable" was perhaps incorrect. It doesn't necessarily have to be inevitable. The point isn't to make an unwinnable game, that too is boring. But to create an outcome that is fulfilling beyond "I grinded to get stronger and beat them".
You can tie this into much more interesting enemy encounters as well. Right now enemy encounters are "did i lose or win?". Whereas with more focus on the elements that make up this world - transformation, bondage, domination, submission, fetishes and tattoos - you can incorporate these into enemy attacks themselves. So, you may win an encounter with an enemy, but instead of trying to either attack you or lust you, these enemies threw lassos at your character and then managed to put a cursed submission collar on you right as you dealt them the final blow. Your encounter is more meaningful here because while you may have crushed the enemies, their attacks actually still pose a further challenge that you must now deal with -- the submission collar. You have decisions to make about the cost of its removal, whether you even have the currency to remove it, or whether you could play on with it for a while. You might avoid combat so avoid possible instances where you might be made to submit by an attempted domination attack. Etc etc etc.
I feel like I'm only really scratching the surface here with what could be done because the system is very powerful.
Oh and some more jobs could offset costs. Balancing around a steadily rising rent or toll is not necessarily difficult, the player is just given choices of several jobs that, when performed at adequate levels have the *potential* to meet costs. Each job itself can pose many predicaments and challenges too of course. Prostitution already features this to a minor extent in it being a decision between raising corruption and gaining fetishes vs earning cash, also the possibility of losing virginity with a wrong move although the sex game is a little flawed in some respects to this which I let slide and expect is already intended to one day be addressed. Jobs are the most obvious potential gameplay loop for both RP and a cash motivator loop, and a potential place to stick all kinds of fun situational stuff you might see in those particular kinds of workplaces. I can think of a few that are quite lore specific too that wouldn't exist in real life.
Am I being unfair in characterising the current gameplay loop as "grind to get strong and collect cash then beat the next thing" ? I don't think so. What I'm really getting at is that because this is the only loop that exists players end up feeling... Wanting. My point is to look for how to introduce more loops, and obviously I'm leaning in quite heavily on the two most obvious popular sandbox world games that feature sub/dom as examples to take such loop ideas from.
Another potential here is that it would really work VERY well with loot drops (from enemies or whatever) that require the player to "identify" items, detrimental gear being in the game is itself begging to be used in a meaningful way. Gear can have detrimental and positive effects while also being cursed, and having the full suite of possible outcomes.
I'll just add last of all here, losing in games is an involuntary outcome, and an absolutely essential event to making games... Games. As are statuses, debuffs, and all kinds of things intended to impact the player and make the player have to perform meaningful choices that actually change from playthrough to playthrough. All of the above essentially just ends up being statuses, debuffs and various possible negatives that players balance to avoid losing, leading to a more enjoyable and deeper game beyond "am I strong?" It adds layers of challenge and choice beyond just levelling your strength.
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Honestly this is one of the things I can agree with. The gear in this game (even the epic and legendary items/sets) feel completely underwhelming in every aspect. Even with limits active I can enchant something considerably more useful/powerful effortlessly. If they were made a lot more powerful in exchange for a drawback (IE a fetish or loss of defense)they would be a lot more interesting to interact with/build around.
throbzombie
Well-Known Member
- Oct 15, 2020
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No, to dominate something, as in combat, you must be significantly more powerful than said something. That something cannot have a fighting chance.
Honestly... what's with some ppl's obsession to make a porn game "hard"?
It's a porn game
i don't want to git gud, i just want to git nut
It's a porn game
i don't want to git gud, i just want to git nut