Java Lilith's Throne [v0.4.9.9] [Innoxia]

[Sarkath]

Most of the people who'd be capable of really making a splash are working on our own projects instead. Except for our one resident masochist trying to fix the performance issues lol

Yeah, and I'm also wrapped up in my own projects, so that definitely doesn't help matters. xD

I've mostly been casually playing through LT and profiling it to come up with a list of CPU/memory pressure points so that I have a few things to tackle next time I have a lull in inspiration (or just aren't in the mood to translate x86 assembly to C…) with my other projects.

Speaking of LT…

I'll give it a crack if I have some free time this week. I'm not too familiar with Maven (and the Java build process in general, for that matter), so it'll be a nice learning experience.

I gave this a quick attempt tonight and things didn't go so well. OpenJDK 1.8 doesn't have JavaFX built-in like Oracle JDK 1.8 does, so it wouldn't even build. The other option would be to target JDK 11/OpenJFX 11, but even then I couldn't convince Maven to bundle OpenJFX into the JAR (and even if I could, the resulting JAR wouldn't work with Java 8, which is still Oracle's recommended version).

At some point I'll have to install IntelliJ on my Windows box and give it a shot on there, since I'm not too keen on polluting my Linux box with Oracle software. I might also try hunting down an older version of OpenJFX (preferably not the java8-openjfx package, since I'd prefer to keep my Java libs in my home directory) and see if I have better luck with that.

 

[tehlemon]

I've mostly been casually playing through LT and profiling it to come up with a list of CPU/memory pressure points so that I have a few things to tackle next time I have a lull in inspiration (or just aren't in the mood to translate x86 assembly to C…) with my other projects.

Any new, interesting finds?

I've got a mental list of things to look into if I ever feel like trying to sort this game's shit out again. It'd be interesting to try and figure out how to reproduce the quest state errors with Axel's quest, and see just how badly you could exploit them. That was pretty fun when I discovered it, but basically everything led to corrupted save files. But its hard to give a shit about solving problems like that when you know the answer is "re-write the entire quest handling system entirely" before even starting

 

[Sarkath]

I gave this a quick attempt tonight and things didn't go so well. OpenJDK 1.8 doesn't have JavaFX built-in like Oracle JDK 1.8 does, so it wouldn't even build.

HAHA DISREGARD THAT I SUCK COCKS

…maybe. I dunno. I tried a different OpenJDK distribution and I was able to get a JAR that sorta did stuff. It didn't include the WebKit libraries so I couldn't actually test it, but this should work on Oracle JRE 8:

You must be registered to see the links

Should be able to just drop it into the LT directory and run it. Hopefully. Perhaps.

Any new, interesting finds?

Nothing yet. I'm mostly just collecting data at the time being. All of my profiling to date has been on very specific actions, so I'm trying to get an idea of what sort of crazy shit the game does behind the scenes if you play it for, say, an hour straight.

Basically it's just an excuse to start a new game and play through it normally for the first time in while, while still getting something accomplished at the same time.

I've got a mental list of things to look into if I ever feel like trying to sort this game's shit out again. It'd be interesting to try and figure out how to reproduce the quest state errors with Axel's quest, and see just how badly you could exploit them. That was pretty fun when I discovered it, but basically everything led to corrupted save files. But its hard to give a shit about solving problems like that when you know the answer is "re-write the entire quest handling system entirely" before even starting

lol yeah It's kind of hard to justify doing major overhauls when you're trying to work on your own thing and aren't even sure if your contributions will be accepted anyway. My saved game performance patch has been sitting in limbo for almost two months at this point, and that's a very simple (but effective) change. It might be because I'm a new contributor and/or not on Discord, but it's still kind of discouraging.

And hey, save corruption. I had that happen when I was preparing my breeder stress test saves as well (basically, a bunch of children seem to be orphaned…that is, listed as "unborn" despite all active pregnancies being resolved), and I wasn't even trying to trigger that. Probably some sort of serialization issue, but I can't say for sure because I don't even know when it happened. It was definitely before I started messing with the internals, though, since those saves were created using the upstream/dev branch.

 

[Simp Cattu]

We're now four days past " but it really shouldn't be more than 2-3 days now... "

Who thinks we're getting a fully completed update today?!

Remember that these are the features promised to be on her so-called "0.4". It means she had achieved nothing close to the goal by the point 0.3.21 comes out, and whatever she said back then about "0.4 being almost finished" was just straight up lies to shut up all the whines and frustration. At this point it's better to think about this situation as Inno hasn't published "0.4" at all, just another month down the drain since her last post of "I'll publish 0.4 next weekend" or whatever, and we've always been on the regular delay basis the whole time.

 

[tehlemon]

Remember that these are the features promised to be on her so-called "0.4". It means she had achieved nothing close to the goal by the point 0.3.21 comes out, and whatever she said back then about "0.4 being almost finished" was just straight up lies to shut up all the whines and frustration. At this point it's better to think about this situation as Inno hasn't published "0.4" at all, just another month down the drain since her last post of "I'll publish 0.4 next weekend" or whatever, and we've always been on the regular delay basis the whole time.

Honestly, after a couple years of this shit, I could do a few pages of "remember when she said X but that turned out to be a lie" lines.

But hey, Inno is a fucking genius who figured out the hidden secret to software development: If you just completely change the promised release's content to not include any of the promised release's content, you can make your major release every time!

If she does the same thing she did with 0.4.0 again, she could put out 0.5.0 tonight!

But instead we'll probably get either a half assed release where the TWO encounters she's spent the last five months working on still are mostly placeholders, or another delay. Now that we're talking about it, knowing that she reads the thread, she'll put something on the blog by Sunday. It's just a matter of which complete embarrassment she wants to deal with.

Or maybe she'll surprise us. Time will tell.

 

[Simp Cattu]

Now that we're talking about it, knowing that she reads the thread, she'll put something on the blog by Sunday. It's just a matter of which complete embarrassment she wants to deal with.

Or maybe she'll surprise us. Time will tell.

The only thing we can agree on by now is just that she will most likely post something before next week. The issue is we don't know what it'd be, another delay post with "the writing is too long and every time I'm about to finish, it just magically grows like 20 more pages" excuses, feeling under the weather, or just straight up "I'll take another week/month/year off to relieve the stress", etc. And then we'll get another cherry on top: "I'm sorry this is talking so long but it shouldn't be more than 2 - 3 days from now, thank you for your continued supports..."

Or maybe she'll surprise us. With things that were supposed to surprise us long ago. So long that they aren't a surprise anymore. Time will tell.

 

[262177]

I spent too much time breaking things and forgot I had quests to do. I didn't even touch Nyan, welp.

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Is there a way to spawn specific generic NPCs? I want to spawn SWORD officers and rat gang members and such.

Could slightly revamp the taur spawn button to make it list all registered IDs.
The parser apparently is just text but I haven't tested this extensively.

As for your Enforcer fetish you mentioned earlier, that'd be something I'd be happy to work on as well on my side at some point, being both an anarchist and upholder of laws that deserve being protected and fought for.

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How would you suggest going through this though, infraction points? Rehab system? A simple three-strike system?

(Might also add cops that aren't completely broken but effectively prevent anyone from messing too much with them even if they went crazy with save editing.)

 

[throbzombie]

Could slightly revamp the taur spawn button to make it list all registered IDs.
The parser apparently is just text but I haven't tested this extensively.

Well, I'd think there would be a spawn tester somewhere, unless they just do it the hard way every time they want to implement a new encounter type.

How would you suggest going through this though, infraction points? Rehab system? A simple three-strike system?

That was just my funny way of saying "jail should be a thing". How about a stay in the holding cell before Lilaya has you released? It could work like a more complex version of the stocks in Slaver Alley. Maybe getting the contractor pass in Wes' quest could give you full access to the station, so that you could go in and have your way with the prisoners. I dunno, just spitballing.

 

[tehlemon]

I didn't even touch Nyan, welp.

Oh, you're in for a tragic surprise then. You should do that quest chain. It's really bad now, the second half in particular.

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How did you know my schedule?!

Well, I'd think there would be a spawn tester somewhere, unless they just do it the hard way every time they want to implement a new encounter type.

Considering it's taken four months to create a single encoounter, they're absolutely doing it the hard way. Or they just suck at writing.

 

[Duskreaper]

HAHA DISREGARD THAT I SUCK COCKS

…maybe. I dunno. I tried a different OpenJDK distribution and I was able to get a JAR that sorta did stuff. It didn't include the WebKit libraries so I couldn't actually test it, but this should work on Oracle JRE 8:

You must be registered to see the links

Should be able to just drop it into the LT directory and run it. Hopefully. Perhaps.

Hey, that worked thank you!

 

[Sarkath]

Hey, that worked thank you!

Awesome! I appreciate the update.

 

[tehlemon]

Oh hey, we're now double the estimated time for the next delay update without hearing a word.

Didn't see that coming lol

 

[DSGMods]

lol yeah It's kind of hard to justify doing major overhauls when you're trying to work on your own thing and aren't even sure if your contributions will be accepted anyway. My saved game performance patch has been sitting in limbo for almost two months at this point, and that's a very simple (but effective) change. It might be because I'm a new contributor and/or not on Discord, but it's still kind of discouraging.

You will be at a slight disadvantage when merge time comes due to the speed of communication via github comments, but I assure you even longtime contributors wait for a long time for PR review. I waited 221 days for HLFQuest and that wasn't even especially complex, and the Felicia expansion has waited for about three months now. Small PRs generally have an easier time.

Don't lose hope. If it makes you feel any better, I can bring your PR up during the next round of reviews, when that happens.

 

[Sarkath]

You will be at a slight disadvantage when merge time comes due to the speed of communication via github comments, but I assure you even longtime contributors wait for a long time for PR review. I waited 221 days for HLFQuest and that wasn't even especially complex, and the Felicia expansion has waited for about three months now. Small PRs generally have an easier time.

Don't lose hope. If it makes you feel any better, I can bring your PR up during the next round of reviews, when that happens.

Thanks for your input! <3 I appreciate your offer to bring up the PR, but at this point I'm just trying to understand how the contribution process works for LT.

I think it's more that I'm used to seeing more communication/feedback when I open PRs with other projects, even if they have to remain open for a while due to logistical issue. Aside from CognativeMist making a helpful style critique I haven't heard anything. Is it just one of those cases where (relative) silence is a good thing?

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

Thanks for your input! <3 I appreciate your offer to bring up the PR, but at this point I'm just trying to understand how the contribution process works for LT.

I think it's more that I'm used to seeing more communication/feedback when I open PRs with other projects, even if they have to remain open for a while due to logistical issue. Aside from CognativeMist making a helpful style critique I haven't heard anything. Is it just one of those cases where (relative) silence is a good thing?

Honestly, yeah, there just isn't much of a process. Most PRs simply sit around until Inno decides to dedicate an evening to trying to deal with as many as she can, usually shortly after a release. If it's clear enough what it does, you probably won't get more comment on it than a quick 'thank you' note.

 

[tehlemon]

You will be at a slight disadvantage when merge time comes due to the speed of communication via github comments, but I assure you even longtime contributors wait for a long time for PR review. I waited 221 days for HLFQuest and that wasn't even especially complex, and the Felicia expansion has waited for about three months now. Small PRs generally have an easier time.

Don't lose hope. If it makes you feel any better, I can bring your PR up during the next round of reviews, when that happens.

I'm going to be honest, that's hilarious to hear. I haven't actually looked at the github activity to see this, so I had no idea. I seriously thought that was how most of the dev time was bieng wasted. Hearing that she barely manages that is so god damn fitting lmao

 

[ririmudev]

Jeez, to think I shake a finger at myself if I don't review a PR after 2 business days.

 

[DeltaDuster]

Jeez, to think I shake a finger at myself if I don't review a PR after 2 business days.

The difference of taking it seriously.. or possibly having consequences, if you're in such a situation.

 

[DSGMods]

To be clear, wait times depend on the depth and breadth of the change. Inno will not merge changes until she understands them, so changes made using existing frameworks or, say, copy newer structures onto older structures for consistency, have the shortest wait times. This is also where speed of communication comes into play, it helps when you can explain yourself quickly.

Thanks for your input! <3 I appreciate your offer to bring up the PR, but at this point I'm just trying to understand how the contribution process works for LT.

I think it's more that I'm used to seeing more communication/feedback when I open PRs with other projects, even if they have to remain open for a while due to logistical issue. Aside from CognativeMist making a helpful style critique I haven't heard anything. Is it just one of those cases where (relative) silence is a good thing?

As NoStepOnSnek stated, there is no real process. They will be reviewed when they are reviewed, usually in bursts of 2 to 3 days.

Silence is just that, silence. It is not an indication of anything. I know Ace and Stadler like to playtest, but I have not seen any mention of your changes being tested. I will ask around.

 

[Sarkath]

NoStepOnSnek DSGMods Thanks, guys! I appreciate the insight.

And, like I said, I'm not trying to come across as pushy. I imagine there's probably a lot going on behind the scenes that I'm not seeing, and even small engine changes do have the potential to break things in subtle ways (and they generally aren't very interesting to playtest, either ).