RPGM Lisa [v3.0.5] [PaleGrass]

[Guyin Cognito]

Here's the subtext related to Paul's blackmail arc, as I see it. And, of course, a certain amount of subjective interpretation is unavoidable when discussing subtext. Bear in mind that I'm playing the Sharing route. Of course, it's necessary for Lisa to have cheated on Danny with Viv, in order to trigger the blackmail, so the Cheating route is also active in my playthrough, but the Sharing route is the primary route which I'm playing. The subtext of the game may be different on different routes.

• Danny - Lisa's Relationship with Danny on the sharing route is pretty good, at the point in the game when the blackmail starts, and it has actually been getting better as the story progresses. So there is good reason to believe that Lisa wouldn't want to lose Danny, or to have their relationship damaged in any way. Also, it should be remembered that they have only engaged in sharing, not in any sort of open relationship in which they fool around with other people separately, and they have not even discussed an open relationship (so far). So Lisa has no reason to believe that Danny would be okay with her fucking other people when he isn't there, and especially not without his permission. Is it possible that Danny would be okay with what she and Viv have been doing? Yes, it's possible. But Danny has already shown his capacity for jealousy once, at the swim meet, so it's not a safe assumption that he would be okay with it, especially since Lisa didn't ask him about it before doing it, didn't include him, and hasn't told him about it after the fact. She has, in fact, kept it from him. She has cheated on him, and there's really no other way to look at it. And she clearly knows that she has cheated, because she hasn't told him and is afraid of him finding out. This is made clear in her dialogue with Viv in her bedroom, but I think that it should be made clearer and emphasized more, rather than just relying on subtext. If Lisa has been keeping this secret from Danny (She has.), and is afraid of him finding out (She is.), then this is definitely a motive - possibly a strong motive - for her to submit to Paul's blackmail.
• Luca and Viv - Yes, I'm including Viv in this, and not only because she's Lisa's "partner in crime" in cheating on Danny. Lisa is becoming more and more invested in both Viv and Luca as the story unfolds. She thinks that Luca is a sweet kid, but that he lacks confidence and that he's too withdrawn. She recognizes that he's highly intelligent, and she wants to see him do well. She tries to encourage him, both in his studies and in physical exercise, and it almost certainly follows that she wants him to have a good opinion of her. She also has compassion on his and Viv's situation of apparently having been abandoned by Luca's father. She sees that Luca loves his mother and tries to support her through her feelings of abandonment and her drinking problem, and that he doesn't want his mother to be worried about him. And she also understands why Viv is worried about her son, given that he also feels abandoned and is shy and withdrawn. And, sex aside, she has also begun to care about Viv, even going so far as to stand up to Riggs on her behalf. So it should be easy to see why she wouldn't want Luca to find out about her affair with his mother. He might feel betrayed by her, and lose his good opinion of her, and all of the work she has done to encourage him and bring him out of his shell might be undone. So she needs to keep her affair with Viv a secret, in order to protect Luca, but also to protect herself and her investment in Luca. And, she also needs to protect Viv. Since she has no idea how Luca might react to finding out about her and his mother, she can't be sure that he wouldn't also feel betrayed by his mother, or might feel that his mother betrayed his father. Sure, he called his father a bastard, the one and only time in the game that he mentioned his father, but that doesn't mean that his feelings about his father aren't still very complicated. Lisa can't possibly be sure of how he would react, either to her or to Viv. And she knows that Luca is the only thing Viv has left, and pretty much the only reason she goes on living. She can't risk possibly being the cause of a breakdown in their relationship, not if she cares about both of them.
• Jo - In the introduction to the game, we are told that Jo is Lisa's dearest friend (Though Gina is also a very close friend.), and that they have been friends for many years. And we also know that Jo is very close to Danny. At the swim meet, it was made clear that Jo does not look kindly on Lisa cheating on Danny. Despite her longstanding and close friendship with Lisa, she isn't going to tolerate Lisa turning into a cheat, assuming that she finds out about it. The swim meet also makes it very clear that Lisa values Jo's good opinion of her, and feels terrible at the thought of their friendship being harmed. Well, if Paul's blackmail route is active, then Lisa has cheated on Danny with Viv. She doesn't want Jo to find out, anymore than she wants Danny to find out.

So, in order to protect her relationship with Danny, her relationship with Jo, her relationship with Luca, Viv's relationship with Luca, and possibly her relationship with Viv (Since Viv might blame Lisa if Luca turns against his mother over the affair.), Lisa can't risk her cheating coming to light. She actually has a shit-ton to lose. She has to keep the affair a secret, and she has to do whatever is necessary to that end.

Of course, she's making the wrong choice. What she should do is to tell Danny and Jo and Luca the truth and take whatever consequences might come. But it's easy to understand (and completely believable) why she wouldn't choose that option. So now she has to go on submitting to Paul's blackmail, until she can come up with a plan to turn the tables on him and get free.

This is my reading of the subtext of the game. I could be reading it wrong, but I don't think I am. And I do think that this is more than enough motivation for Lisa's choice to submit to the blackmail. However, I don't think that this should be left in the subtext. I think that it should be spelled out more clearly in the dialogue and Lisa's internal monologue. Some of the explanation is there, in her conversations with Viv and Paul, but I think that it should be made clearer, for the benefit of anyone who may not have picked up on the subtext.



For the record, you should feel free to argue against me. I'm not allergic to people disagreeing with me. And, if I were, that would be my problem, not yours.

I actually agree with all of that. I think for some of it I may have made the logical jump without thinking of it as subtext, but you're right that a lot of that is not made clear, especially in reference to why she puts up with the blackmail.

This may be a larger or associated complaint about the game, but I didn't actually realize for some time that I was on the "Cheating" path AND the "Sharing" path. Lisa had established first that Danny enjoyed hearing about guys flirting with and even groping her and that's what led to the sharing idea. She's learning about all this from Sharon, who clearly has sex without her husband around all the time. So, when I intentionally avoided the Cheating path and then hopped on the Sharing path, I initially thought that meant that all bets were off, that nothing would be considered cheating anymore. At some point, it came up that Lisa was cheating, and I was kind of surprised and disappointed.

I see in the Replay Room that Lisa has some really heavy emotional reactions to cheating when she is just on the Cheating path without Sharing active. Once you're on the Sharing path, I don't think it's clear enough that doing things without Danny around still counts as cheating, at least not initially. This may be affecting the impression players of the sharing path have about the blackmail as well. In scenes like on the beach with Byron, Lisa seems to be mildly uncertain how Danny would react to knowing what she's doing. That's a far cry from hating herself like she does in certain scenes on the cheating path, and in my mind it didn't really register as cheating. So when we get to the thing with Viv, it seemed kind of disjointed that Lisa was suddenly so worried about Danny finding out.

As for Sharon... frankly, after the thing she pulled over coffee helping Paul, I'm a little paranoid she won't even be angry at Paul or may even be in on it with him. I don't want to believe that, but she has been pushing Lisa to fuck anything that walks, and that kitchen scene was a little unnerving. At the very least, after molesting Lisa herself and seeming not the least bit possessive of Lisa, I'd think she'd be the last one to care about Lisa and Viv hooking up, which feels like the part most highlighted in the game in reference to the blackmail.

So, yeah. I would definitely agree that some of those other points you mention need to be made more clear, the focus should probably be more on those other things than on Sharon (unless we're being set-up for some hardcore heartbreak from Sharon siding with Paul (PLEASE god NO!) ), and I would add that the fact that Lisa is actually cheating also needs to be made more clear (and sooner) when on the Sharing path.

There are two or three times near the start of the blackmail that Lisa tries to resist and Paul keeps bringing up Sharon finding out. Maybe those moments could be re-written to have him mention a different aspects of these things each time. Although, as I say that, it might make Paul look much more intelligent and Machiavellian for him to even be aware of things like how Luca or Jo would feel. We don't know for sure how much he knows about all of Lisa's mundane activities and friendships. He might know Danny and Jo are close, but it's not mentioned. It sounds like at some point he hears from the other goons how close she is to Luca, but we don't know when he finds that out or how much he knows about Viv and Luca's situation.

Sidenote, while I applaud the efforts and skill put into writing the darker and more hard-hitting story-lines in this game, I think I might puke if Lisa ever has to have sex with Riggs, and I will be very frustrated if a few key people like Riggs and Paul manage to survive this game to the end without at least ending up in prison if not a grave. I'm an 80's kid. I still like it when the good guys win and the bad guys lose.

 

[Shackie]

View attachment 1920424 how to unlock this quest

Viv drunk :
Tutor Luca 4 times .
Visit Viv & Luca at her house in the afternoon .( Outfit Summer Blouse & Jeans )

 

[TheLecher]

As for Sharon... frankly, after the thing she pulled over coffee helping Paul, I'm a little paranoid she won't even be angry at Paul or may even be in on it with him. I don't want to believe that, but she has been pushing Lisa to fuck anything that walks, and that kitchen scene was a little unnerving.

I really don't think that Sharon would be on Paul's side. She raised Lisa and seems to genuinely care about her very much. I think that the scene of Sharon helping Paul to "prank" Lisa over coffee is just an indication that Sharon is naturally mischievous and genuinely has no sense of propriety, or at least rejects all notions of propriety.

Basically, I think that Sharon has a sort of "ethical blindness", but that she really loves Lisa. I think that, if she knew what Paul was doing to Lisa, she would probably give him the "Bobbitt Special".

At the very least, after molesting Lisa herself and seeming not the least bit possessive of Lisa, I'd think she'd be the last one to care about Lisa and Viv hooking up, which feels like the part most highlighted in the game in reference to the blackmail.

I kind of think that there's something which we don't know about that situation - some reason why Sharon would care or why Lisa doesn't want Sharon to know. I have the idea that there was supposed to be some more backstory there which got left out, maybe because PaleGrass wanted to fast track the blackmail content. That's just a guess on my part, of course. I'm just as likely to be wrong about that as I am to be right. But if I am right, then PaleGrass really needs to get that backstory added to the game.

Although, as I say that, it might make Paul look much more intelligent and Machiavellian for him to even be aware of things like how Luca or Jo would feel. We don't know for sure how much he knows about all of Lisa's mundane activities and friendships. He might know Danny and Jo are close, but it's not mentioned. It sounds like at some point he hears from the other goons how close she is to Luca, but we don't know when he finds that out or how much he knows about Viv and Luca's situation.

I really don't think that it matters how much Paul knows about Lisa's relationships with Jo or Luca. He doesn't have to know how much Lisa really stands to lose. It's really enough that he knows that she's cheating on Danny and doesn't want him to know. And he certainly does know that, because he overheard Lisa and Viv in Lisa's bedroom. The other consideration (Lisa's friendship with Jo, Jo's friendship with Danny, Lisa's involvement with Luca, Luca and Viv's family situation, etc.) will be present in Lisa's mind as reasons to give in to the blackmail, whether Paul knows about them or not. She has to be concerned about everything she stands to lose, not just what Paul knows. However, this supposition depends on my reading of the subtext being correct. If I'm wrong, then this argument crumbles. And if I'm right, then the subtext needs to be more clearly stated.

That being said, Paul definitely does learn about Lisa being protective of Luca from Conner and Mark. This is clear from the scene at the cinema. Regardless of exactly when he learned it, that knowledge is a factor for Paul now.

Sidenote, while I applaud the efforts and skill put into writing the darker and more hard-hitting story-lines in this game, I think I might puke if Lisa ever has to have sex with Riggs, and I will be very frustrated if a few key people like Riggs and Paul manage to survive this game to the end without at least ending up in prison if not a grave. I'm an 80's kid. I still like it when the good guys win and the bad guys lose.

I'm sure that any sexual content between Lisa and Riggs will be optional, just like Paul's blackmail content is optional.

And while I don't know any more than you do about what PaleGrass has planned, I'm confident that there will be a "good guys win" ending to the game.

 

[Mesmerizet]

WARNING: There is a bug in the Mod Shop Gathering event that will put you on Sharing Route.
To fix this you have to delete the following files in game/scripts/credit events/Mod Shop

• Mod Shop Gathering.rpy
• Mod Shop Gathering.rpyc

and put the attached file in it. Load a save before Mod Shop Gathering event and restart it, if you already played it.
People who already were on Sharing Route can ignore this.
View attachment 1799864

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lisa - Episode 2 Chapter 2 v1.0 Final v1
(Unofficial Ren'Py Version)


Windows/Linux and Mac [675 MB]:
GDrive Mega Workupload

Android [720 MB] (ported by cebs ):
Click Here​

Spoiler: Changes & Bugfixes

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Spoiler: How to open the questlog

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Any update to the RenPy version?

 

[SevenCostanza]

Read through my posts again. I've been consistent on this point throughout my posts.

To restate my position clearly: I do find it believable and realistic that Lisa could be blackmailed in this situation with the material which Paul has on her. I do find it believable that Lisa would continue to submit until such time as she can find a way out, which she hasn't done yet. However, I think that Lisa's motives for submitting to Paul's blackmail have not been adequately explained in the game, which has led some people to the conclusion that her motives for submitting are insufficient. I think that PaleGrass should add more dialogue or internal monologue which will explain Lisa's motives more fully, instead of leaving them to subtext alone. Once that is done, my only criticism of the blackmail storyline will be answered.

Perhaps you are thinking of my argument that Lisa is motivated to submit by fear of the repercussions on her relationships with her aunt, her boyfriend, and Luca. I stand by that argument. But I drew that conclusion mostly from the subtext of the game. It's partially spelled out (where Danny, the boyfriend, is concerned) in dialogue between Lisa and Viv, and also Lisa and Paul, but I think it needs to be made clearer, as I don't think that subtext should be relied upon to support something as heavy as a blackmail storyline.

As I said before, blackmail can be broken down to making someone do something against their will due to some influence or power or knowledge they have over them and the threat of being exposed. Everyone knows what blackmail is. Everyone can infer from what has happened thus far what the blackmail is about and the implications and reasons. No additional subtext or context needed. Yes obviously she doesn't want certain people to find out about what she's done. THAT IS THE BLACKMAIL. What other possible reason could it be besides not wanting to be exposed to people who would be extremely hurt by what's happened? What else could that picture be used to blackmail her for? Who else and why would anyone give a crap about that picture? I'm not sure why you keep thinking I've misunderstood your position or argument when we are essentially saying the same thing. We also agree on what SHOULD be done in that situation if someone had at least the emotional maturity of a 15 year old.

Given the current subtext, context, circumstances etc of the story that we are privy to, you think her submitting is believable, and at the same time can understand why people think her motives may be insufficient and it's the one criticism you have of the blackmail path.
I said I don't feel her motives are sufficient and therefore believable and criticized the blackmail path.
You believe her motives for submitting are either too weak and/or not explained well enough.
I believe her motives are hard to believe and flimsy.

I feel like we're going in circles and arguing two sides of the same coin.

Fundamentally we're of the same mindset yet for some reason what I said wasn't correct or I misunderstood etc. despite essentially saying the same thing.

 

[Dr. Lewdwig]

Everyone smiles with this shit-eating grin. It's kind of creepy. I made a similar post in the review section. But here I have pictures to prove my point. Anatomically speaking, yes, the lower eyelid can sometimes correspond with the cheeks rising when someone smiles, however, this doesn't happen to everyone and to that degree. It's like I'm watching the Insidious movie.

My friend. I read your review and after a hearty laugh, I knew I had to track down your discussion post and reply out of gratitude if nothing else.
It also got me curious about the origin of the phrase "shit-eating grin". That was a fun rabbit-hole to go down to.
Anyway, live long and prosper, friend. Thank you.

 

[redharvest1]

Any update to the RenPy version?

It won't be updated until the second part of this update is released....

 

[TheLecher]

I feel like we're going in circles and arguing two sides of the same coin.

In that case, let's just stop going in circles.

I don't think that we're in full agreement about the blackmail content in the game, but then, we don't have to be. I think that we're in at least partial agreement. But I already thought so before.

I wasn't trying to argue a point with you in that post you just quoted. I was trying to clarify my position, since you seemed to think that I was contradicting myself.

 

[SevenCostanza]

In that case, let's just stop going in circles.

I don't think that we're in full agreement about the blackmail content in the game, but then, we don't have to be. I think that we're in at least partial agreement. But I already thought so before.

I wasn't trying to argue a point with you in that post you just quoted. I was trying to clarify my position, since you seemed to think that I was contradicting myself.

Hehe ok this will be my last post on this topic since it's clear we're going in circles with no end in sight.
The fact that ultimately you think what we are discussing isn't fundamentally the same thing just makes me think you are being purposefully obtuse or just combative for the hell of it.
Really the only difference in our opinions on the topic is that you are sitting on the fence and believe both that the blackmail is believable and at the same time so weak that people will question the motivations for submitting. It's convenient since this let's you argue both sides and can't be wrong.
You acknowledge people may find the motivation for submitting weak.
I've said I don't find her going along with the blackmail to be believable given the circumstances.
Are those two statements really that different or offer opposing views? For some reason though you again seem to believe I either mistook your statement or misunderstood it. At no point in this discussion have I misunderstood, mistaken, or 'seemed to think' incorrectly what you've said and what your position is. Again, we agree on the reason she doesn't want to be exposed (as would everyone, it's obvious). No one will argue you about the mechanics of blackmail and what it entails or it's definition. We agree on the subtext, context, and circumstances regarding the blackmail. The reasoning, the demands, etc we agree on everything in that regard and still at the end of the day, despite agreeing with you, you seem to disagree with me lol.

My OP on this topic was simply that I didn't find the reason's she would go along with the blackmail to be believable and questioned the reasoning behind the decision as she is at least an adult with an average mental capacity, but then again she is naive, simple, and an airhead with no critical thinking ability or sense of responsibility. As you said previously she really is THAT dumb.

 

[Omo69]

Do the same on the ".../Contents/Resources/" folder since this path is read-only too according to the error message.

I did that... but now the game is not even starting

 

[nunzio2016]

Hey all...small problem. My game freezes during coffee with Aiofe (2nd meeting). Always around the time she gets the phone call. Any suggestions? Game has been smooth up till this point.
Thanks a lot

Edit:
So...actually got through it with no bugs (sweet). I DID notice however that I can't increase my fitness to 5?? Just went for another run (4 fitness), finished it and I'm still at 4...Bug?
Again, any help would be awesome

 

[cold_arctus]

I did that... but now the game is not even starting

Try it with permission fixer.
https://f95zone.to/threads/permission-fixer-for-mac-and-linux.24233/post-1492564

 

[Shackie]

Hey all...small problem. My game freezes during coffee with Aiofe (2nd meeting). Always around the time she gets the phone call. Any suggestions? Game has been smooth up till this point.
Thanks a lot

Edit:
So...actually got through it with no bugs (sweet). I DID notice however that I can't increase my fitness to 5?? Just went for another run (4 fitness), finished it and I'm still at 4...Bug?
Again, any help would be awesome

Go to the Town center for a run ( Fitness 6 is the max )

 

[Diablosifa]

Anyone save from 2.10?

 

[nunzio2016]

Go to the Town center for a run ( Fitness 6 is the max )

Thanks Shackie…just so I’m clear, running at town center will give me 5 fitness? I assume it’ll be the same process to get 6 as well?
Thanks again…I’ll give it a shot after work!
Hopefully works

 

[puffmutter]

Why does Lisa looks from front like a big titted Lara Croft and from the back always like one of the fat assed Kardashians?

 

[sarab22]

hi .. whene i download the update . i choese continuo but i not fond anything . back to me to the start and new game .. what i can do ?

 

[puffmutter]

Where is "Tom Hortons" for the instagram foto? And I also cannot trigger the pool foto in the morning.

 

[TheLecher]

The fact that ultimately you think what we are discussing isn't fundamentally the same thing just makes me think you are being purposefully obtuse or just combative for the hell of it.

This conversation is becoming surreal. I have replied to you four times (before this post, now five times) since we began discussing the blackmail plot, and only the first of those replies was an argument against what you said. My second reply to you amounted to "That's cool." My third was a clarification of my opinion, since you seemed to think that I was contradicting myself. And my fourth and most recent reply was saying that we agree on at least some things about the blackmail plot, but probably not all things, but it doesn't matter, because we don't have to agree, so we can just drop it. I have no idea how you look at that chain of messages and come to the conclusion that I'm being purposefully obtuse or combative for the hell of it.

Really the only difference in our opinions on the topic is that you are sitting on the fence and believe both that the blackmail is believable and at the same time so weak that people will question the motivations for submitting. It's convenient since this let's you argue both sides and can't be wrong.

People arguing both sides are more likely to be wrong, not less likely to be wrong, because at least one of the opposing sides is likely to be wrong, to some extent. Fortunately for me, I'm not fence-sitting or trying to argue both sides. I've been very clear, and I'm not sure what is tripping you up. But I'll try again.

1. I do not think that Lisa's motivation for submitting to the blackmail is inadequate. I think that the threat which exposure presents to her relationships with Danny, Jo, Luca, and possibly Viv is sufficient for her to be willing to comply, provided that she isn't wise enough to disarm the blackmail by coming clean. Since many people aren't wise enough to do that, and since I consider Lisa's motivation to be sufficient, I think that the blackmail plot is believable.
2. However, I think that much of the above argument is based on the game's subtext, and I think that many players take a more "surface level" view of the story, and don't consider things which aren't spelled out in dialogue or internal monologues. Because of this, and because I think that PaleGrass should try to make the story clear to as many players as possible, I think that the existing dialogue and monologues should be updated to be more explicit about Lisa's fears concerning those relationships. I think that the fact that this hasn't been done yet amounts to a flaw in the story.

These two points are complimentary, not contradictory, so there is no simultaneous arguing of opposing sides.

You acknowledge people may find the motivation for submitting weak.

Again, I don't find her motivation to be weak. The only reason that some other people may find it weak is that it hasn't been stated clearly enough for them, if they don't read between the lines. That's not the same as finding her motivation weak. Her motivation is strong, and it's already conveyed in the game, but not explicitly stated. So it should be made clearer.

I've said I don't find her going along with the blackmail to be believable given the circumstances.

And this is where we disagree. You don't find it believable, given the circumstances. I do find it believable, given the circumstances.

Are those two statements really that different or offer opposing views?

Yes.

For some reason though you again seem to believe I either mistook your statement or misunderstood it. At no point in this discussion have I misunderstood, mistaken, or 'seemed to think' incorrectly what you've said and what your position is.

You clearly have mistaken or misunderstood me, because you think that I find her motivation weak, which is incorrect. You also seem to think that I have been debating you nonstop, while only my first reply to you on this topic (and this reply) has actually been argumentative. My other three replies have been "fist bump", "Allow me to clarify...", and "Yeah, we agree about some things, and we don't have to go on arguing about the other things."

My OP on this topic was simply that I didn't find the reason's she would go along with the blackmail to be believable and questioned the reasoning behind the decision as she is at least an adult with an average mental capacity, but then again she is naive, simple, and an airhead with no critical thinking ability or sense of responsibility. As you said previously she really is THAT dumb.

And when I say she really is that dumb, I mean dumb enough to make the wrong choice, which is the same degree of foolishness as a large percentage of humanity. My criticism of Lisa's character when she submits to blackmail isn't that she lacks intelligence. It's that she lacks the integrity to bite the bullet and come clean. It's foolishness, not stupidity - foolishness being worse than stupidity, in that it seems to be more widespread and often has worse consequences.

But she'll come out on top in the end.

 

[Kalam_mekhar]

Is there a way to open everything in recolection room?