DoodlesTheBob

Member
Aug 23, 2018
300
426
Is it that common for devs to include that kind of analytics in the game code? Seems to me a bit strange/intrusive for an early access indie vn. I also very much doubt that even half the people who downloaded this game from somewhere other tham itch.io even knew it existed before.


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Speaking as someone that started and left game dev between 2010 and 2020. Yes. Very heavy analytics are common in any sort of title because there are now 3rd party plugins made for unity and unreal which will trivialize the implementation of such and it is childs play to link it up to a microsoft azure or cloudfront AWS backend. Since most modern windows PCs are already making call-outs to AWS or azure, the end user wont even see anything unusual about it in their network traffic.

Unity just came up with an in-house solution, even.

You can learn a lot of things that are useful to making games better through these tools. Change your UI/UX for the inventory system? You can literally get hard data on if players are spending more or less time in your game menus instead of playing the game. Wanna see how long people are staring at the tool-tip for a core ability because you are worried that your wording isn't clear or intuitive? It can tell you that too.

As far as the fact that piracy helps spread awareness. I'm over 40. I'd agree with that sentiment in 1990. Even in the 00s and 10s. Now it is the internet age. You can watch anime girls playing all the indie games you've never seen before. You have dozens of review channels on youtube, lets-play videos, let's break the game videos, let's be the world best hardcore players on twitch, etc. There is even hentai game reviews on the porn sites.

Saying pirates pay game developers with attention, when it is never been easier to get said attention, is a bit like telling an artist that they should be happy to work for free because it'll give them lots of exposure. If you would think someone is an entitled ass for saying "I'll spread the word about you, so give it to me free." the logic is only 1 step removed from "I'll spread the word, by the way, I'm not giving you an option."

I'm cool with piracy as I said before, however, I'm not going to convince myself it's a moral gray or that it stands to benefit the original creator to a large degree. It's offering them the artist no pay exposure deal without the right to refuse that an artist has.
 

ーはかせ

Member
Sep 25, 2021
111
290
Speaking as someone that started and left game dev between 2010 and 2020. Yes. Very heavy analytics are common in any sort of title because there are now 3rd party plugins made for unity and unreal which will trivialize the implementation of such and it is childs play to link it up to a microsoft azure or cloudfront AWS backend. Since most modern windows PCs are already making call-outs to AWS or azure, the end user wont even see anything unusual about it in their network traffic.

Unity just came up with an in-house solution, even.

You can learn a lot of things that are useful to making games better through these tools. Change your UI/UX for the inventory system? You can literally get hard data on if players are spending more or less time in your game menus instead of playing the game. Wanna see how long people are staring at the tool-tip for a core ability because you are worried that your wording isn't clear or intuitive? It can tell you that too.

As far as the fact that piracy helps spread awareness. I'm over 40. I'd agree with that sentiment in 1990. Even in the 00s and 10s. Now it is the internet age. You can watch anime girls playing all the indie games you've never seen before. You have dozens of review channels on youtube, lets-play videos, let's break the game videos, let's be the world best hardcore players on twitch, etc. There is even hentai game reviews on the porn sites.

Saying pirates pay game developers with attention, when it is never been easier to get said attention, is a bit like telling an artist that they should be happy to work for free because it'll give them lots of exposure. If you would think someone is an entitled ass for saying "I'll spread the word about you, so give it to me free." the logic is only 1 step removed from "I'll spread the word, by the way, I'm not giving you an option."

I'm cool with piracy as I said before, however, I'm not going to convince myself it's a moral gray or that it stands to benefit the original creator to a large degree. It's offering them the artist no pay exposure deal without the right to refuse that an artist has.
That's very interesting! Thanks for sharing (y)

About the awareness, I'm pretty much of the same opinion as you 100%. My line of thought was more about the game's "reach" i guess. It's difficult to explain, but I imagine that in terms of "potential buyers", people who found the game in 3rd party sites and downloaded for free most likely wouldn't ever buy the game if buying was the only option. And in the same way, I imagine that most people who found the game on itch.io didn't go out of their way to play the game without paying. For that reason it's quite sad the dev wasn't able to get the game greenlit on Steam, specially since the game seems very high quality actually. If it was me, I would try arranging a japanese translation of the game (easier said than done, i know) and try reaching a bigger audience selling on DLsite and hbox.
 

DoodlesTheBob

Member
Aug 23, 2018
300
426
That's very interesting! Thanks for sharing (y)

About the awareness, I'm pretty much of the same opinion as you 100%. My line of thought was more about the game's "reach" i guess. It's difficult to explain, but I imagine that in terms of "potential buyers", people who found the game in 3rd party sites and downloaded for free most likely wouldn't ever buy the game if buying was the only option. And in the same way, I imagine that most people who found the game on itch.io didn't go out of their way to play the game without paying. For that reason it's quite sad the dev wasn't able to get the game greenlit on Steam, specially since the game seems very high quality actually. If it was me, I would try arranging a japanese translation of the game (easier said than done, i know) and try reaching a bigger audience selling on DLsite and hbox.
Well, I agree with that point too. A lot of big companies will complain about "missed sales."

If piracy was made impossible tomorrow, I'm not going to start buying these games. There's some level of plausible deniability that comes with downloading a game. You can say your wifi was hacked. It was a guest band on your network. A visitor must have done it. Maybe someone hacked amazon sidewalk and used your doorbell to piggyback on your network.

There's no getting around having DLsite charges on your credit card every month. No saving yourself from the bad PR if your steam credentials get exposed in a dataleak and it shows you had 20 or 30 very questionable hentai games. I'm not a missed sale. I'm not going to leave a paper trail of furry vore games behind me.
 

Don Tebjos

Member
Apr 17, 2022
166
157
....(nice post just make it shorter ^^)...

I'm cool with piracy as I said before, however, I'm not going to convince myself it's a moral gray or that it stands to benefit the original creator to a large degree. It's offering them the artist no pay exposure deal without the right to refuse that an artist has.
I believe we are witnessing a change in paradigm about all this stuff, in pretty much every "non physical support" industry.
Two logics overlapping, and countering themselves as well as synergizing

Seeing how fast streaming and the tip culture have become mainstream, I think the coming years will see the fall of many unfair logics we were used to, and see some kind of "gratitude buisness model" emerge and become more and more natural.

This or transhumanist - cyborg - dystopian future. But I would opt for option 1. Mankind is not that dumb

Terms might be unprecise and i would have loved to develop further more but I lack the level in english xD sry.
 

DoodlesTheBob

Member
Aug 23, 2018
300
426
I believe we are witnessing a change in paradigm about all this stuff, in pretty much every "non physical support" industry.
Two logics overlapping, and countering themselves as well as synergizing

Seeing how fast streaming and the tip culture have become mainstream, I think the coming years will see the fall of many unfair logics we were used to, and see some kind of "gratitude buisness model" emerge and become more and more natural.

This or transhumanist - cyborg - dystopian future. But I would opt for option 1. Mankind is not that dumb

Terms might be unprecise and i would have loved to develop further more but I lack the level in english xD sry.
It's definitely an angle to consider. You have a game like wildlife that's barely making progress on the game portion of their product and they're pulling down heaps of renewable cash. I'd bet there are some supporters who have put in 100$+ and yet some of those same supporters would flatly refuse to pay 69$ for a new game.

Games as a service is at part of the future. The gratitude part, I dunno. I think the main reason patreon exists is because it turns out it's a very useful way to outsource your payment processing for SAS. If not for it, these indies would have to sign binding contracts and negotiate with stripe, visa or mastercard themselves.
 

91osiris77

Newbie
Jun 26, 2022
27
17
Is day 33 the one where you have to promote the guild's business and get Farmer's Ending if you fail? If so, then you have to get the cooking skill and don't cook dinner, make your imouto cook. A new scene should occur, meaning you've successfully triggered the event.
Thank you very much, with this advice I was able to go past day 33... I must say that since it didn't go past day 33 I found several ways to unlock some scenes early if I could give some advice it would be to raise the confidence to 200 as soon as possible, it can be done achieve before the 20th, because bathing with the sister greatly increases all the statistics.
 

Mushybird

Member
Sep 17, 2021
115
179
I wonder where those numbers came from, though... If they're collecting data from every copy ever ran and comparing it to sales numbers, wouldn't people who download it from places like F95, play for a bit then delete it afterwards, end up inflating those numbers?

I also find it a bit weird that they're reconsidering the future of their game because of piracy, while their Patreon seems to be raking in some nice dollar, but that's beside the point...

View attachment 2761489
Why does it say $67,720 on the pic but you can literally go to their patreon page and see that it's at $13,880? I mean, combining patreon and subscribestar revenue amounts gets you to $14,660, which is still a very enviable amount. But what's up with this misleading image?
 
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torresm

Active Member
Apr 5, 2020
743
1,615
Why does it say $67,720 on the pic but you can literally go to their patreon page and see that it's at $13,880? I mean, combining patreon and subscribestar revenue amounts gets you to $14,660, which is still a very enviable amount. But what's up with this misleading image?
That's a very good question.
I just checked again to see if I'm going crazy and nope, same amount. I can only assume it's using my local currency, even though it's set to USD at bottom of the page.

Thanks for the heads up though. I'm a bit relieved actually, not that $13k is a small figure but it's much more believable than 67k. It left me contemplating my life choices for a while... :KEK:
 

flynn1986

Member
Dec 4, 2022
308
426
I'm usually not the type to keep unearthing past discussions but I've had very limited time to keep track of these threads lately, so I'll speak my mind.

What is wrong with you froggybob12? I'm gonna keep it a buck, it is simply lovely for someone to come in this thread of all places to accuse F95 of being "essentially" all piracy, completely ignoring the hundreds of pages of people discussing and working to translate, mod and add to the original. Especially coming from someone who actively uploaded versions of the original game in the thread and has posted himself using Shades translation. Seems interesting to me how it just looks like you upload the game here seemingly so someone, for free, out of their own will, will provide you, a "scuffed MTL" to play. You don't need a translation to play the game? Then wtf are you doing here besides being a troll?

Judging people's contributions like that without really contributing much, a complete lack of awareness of what this community actually is while coming across as this forum being just a piracy source for you instead, but more importantly, causing the discussion to derail from the steam release to simply a morals discussion... I'd rather see double the amount of askers in this thread during release time. Please stop this troll act before moderation comes.


Also, sending love to Shades who sacrificed too much for such ungratefulness. Maybe I'll launch the translator++ here and make a "full on scuffed MTL" version for his dumb ass to revel in.

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I'm convinced froggybob12 is an undercover Kagura employee in this thread and he's the one who is going to steal the translation Shade made and mello's decensor mod so they can use it in their version. This is a canon event,
 

flynn1986

Member
Dec 4, 2022
308
426
That's a very good question.
I just checked again to see if I'm going crazy and nope, same amount. I can only assume it's using my local currency, even though it's set to USD at bottom of the page.

Thanks for the heads up though. I'm a bit relieved actually, not that $13k is a small figure but it's much more believable than 67k. It left me contemplating my life choices for a while... :KEK:
I would try to tackle and eat a live fucking moose for $13k a month
 

BlueFireNick

Active Member
Apr 14, 2019
863
2,336
That's a very good question.
I just checked again to see if I'm going crazy and nope, same amount. I can only assume it's using my local currency, even though it's set to USD at bottom of the page.

Thanks for the heads up though. I'm a bit relieved actually, not that $13k is a small figure but it's much more believable than 67k. It left me contemplating my life choices for a while... :KEK:
For some reason, Patreon's currency button is slightly broken. It shows the actual value of whichever currency is chosen at the moment, but always shows USD at the bottom of the page. If you choose Hong Kong Dollars, it shows 108k a month, and still states USD at the bottom. Either way...I'm suddenly a lot more disappointed in that game. I played it a while back, and thought it was a good work-in-progress game for an indie maker, and the slow pace done during free time reasonable, but 13k a month? And it's still not finished after almost 3 years...? The content feels a lot more mediocre with that viewpoint suddenly added. One month alone could probably pay for all the art currently in the game, 2 for a higher end artist. And they complain that only 7% are monetarily sending money every month for an unfinished game? It's as bad as battle passes and micro-transactions from money-hungry AAA games.
 

orillion1

New Member
Jun 27, 2023
2
0
Guys, after the first tournament (where finals) i lost first match, and then, some shadow guys appear, and then black hole, i couldnt defeat that, and i achieved bad ending, how should i defeat this thing with 5k hp?
 

taotio

Member
Jun 10, 2019
138
396
Guys, after the first tournament (where finals) i lost first match, and then, some shadow guys appear, and then black hole, i couldnt defeat that, and i achieved bad ending, how should i defeat this thing with 5k hp?
at that point you should be strong enough not to lose first match. And i think at some point you get help against black hole if you do well enough. ( although i don't remember which route i was at that time)
Just do new game + and try winning all story battles - you will get different route (although battle against black hole will be same )
 
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